New exciting case: Fractal Design - Define R2

lm · Post by lm » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:41 am

From the pictures, it looks like the front door completely blocks airflow to the intake fans. Surely it can't be so? But I just can't see where the air is supposed to go in.

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:28 am

In the Netherlands, this case runs roughly EUR97, whereas a P183 would cost about EUR110... Personally, I'd go for the Antec with this little difference in price.

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:31 pm

lm wrote:From the pictures, it looks like the front door completely blocks airflow to the intake fans. Surely it can't be so? But I just can't see where the air is supposed to go in.

Like the P18x series cases, there are intake vents on the side of the case so that when the door is closed, there is still some intake areas available (see this pic for a side on shot showing a side intake vent).

Tephras · Post by **Tephras** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:47 pm

steppinwolf wrote:Lian Li PC-B10: (2) prospect of having to add sound deadening material to the thin aluminum case walls.

I don't think vibrating case panels will be much of a problem due to the fact that the panels have rubber strips along the edges and the aluminium are 2mm thick (the pre-applied foam might also be somewhat beneficial, but it seems to be quite thin and not very dense).

steppinwolf · Post by **steppinwolf** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:12 am

Tephras, thanks for the feedback. I am partial to the Lian Li PC-B10 among cases available in the U.S. at the moment. So you think it would be a pretty quiet case? I read that steel is denser and thus better at reducing noise escaping from inside the case. My current case is an Antec Sonata I, but I need more space & cooling for a new build and I'm not enthusiastic about the P183.

It's difficult to find customer comments on the PC-B10 which would be good to have for such an expensive case. For example, on Newegg there's only 1 comment posted. Mainly I want to be more confident that it's quiet and has enough space for routing cables behind the MB.

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:33 am

Even though I haven't seen the B10 in person, I can give some general comments on the case design:

Lian Li cases in general do not suffer as much from the "aluminium hum issue" as other cases: this has to do with the thickness of the material used as well as with the sturdy construction & well designed structure. Depending on which Sonata you have now, you might well find vibration damping far superior on the Lian Li case.
The perforated front panel is prone to air turbulence noise from fans mounted behind; my V1000 has the same hole pattern. The door will possibly reduce this noise, but it is a potential extra noise source.
The hard disk trays will block a bit of airflow, plus its proximity to the front will either result in more air turbulence noise or easily let out noise from the hard disks. In that regard, your Sonata might possibly have a lower noise signature, but the door will compensate a bit for that.
There is lots of room to suspend hard disks (depending on your level of obsession, that is a good thing or doesn't matter at all)
Out-of-the-box airflow seems a bit odd with 2 bigs fans blowing in and only one sucking out, but it is a good candidate for ducting a tower heatsink on the CPU directly out the back.
I really like the P18x/V1x00 idea of a separated chamber for the PSU, I'd probably create something similar in this case (which would add another mod to the list)

All in all, to me it looks like an OK case. Not too many special (silence oriented) features to get excited about, but at least it doesn't suffer from a convoluted air flow pattern like some of the latest Lian Li cases. As with all Lian Li cases, you should be willing to pay for top quality in terms of looks & construction. If you have no problem with the fact that there are possibly cases out there with more bang-per-buck (but with less style), I'd say go for it. In my book, no Antec even comes close in the looks department.

mdrumt · Post by **mdrumt** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:43 pm

Review can be found here:

http://metku.net/index.html?path=review ... /index_eng

steppinwolf · Post by **steppinwolf** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:15 pm

teejay, thanks for the great info/impressions on Lian Li. The SPCR community is a very helpful and knowledgeable group!

Yes, I'm willing to splurge a bit on this build. I'm thinking 2 induction fans with 1 fan out may create slight positive air pressure to reduce the amount of dust getting inside. Of course that won't help much if the filters are very porous. The CPU cooler (maybe a Zalman CNPS9900LED) would be blowing almost directly at the rear case fan just as you described.

I can feel myself inching back toward the PC-B10--especially with availability of the Define R2 being an issue. The poor paint job mentioned in Metku's review (thanks mdrumt) isn't helping it's case (excuse the pun

).

mdrumt · Post by **mdrumt** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:25 pm

Hi Steppin

If you can find a Fractal..get one you can be our guinea pig

I got a Antec P180, its great for low noise, but its got alot of plastic bits that break easily, and its insanely heavy.

Personally, id go with PC-B10. Its hard to beat LianLi in looks, very little flaky plasitc bits. It will also be lighter but a bit more $$. The only i point i dont like is lack of cable management. I do like the idea of the whole front being vented.

Also depends on your setup you may even get away with just the exhaust fan as i do. As mentioned earlier, hdd sound might be an issue for you, the B10 does have rubber mounts, but if your particular about that kinda thing you might be inclined to do the suspension mods on ANY case you end up with.

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:24 pm

steppinwolf wrote:teejay, thanks for the great info/impressions
(snip)
The CPU cooler (maybe a Zalman CNPS9900LED) would be blowing almost directly at the rear case fan just as you described.

Welcome.

Any particular reason you'd choose this cpu cooler? Have you read the SPCR review?

review wrote:And while Zalman continues to modify the CNPS9000 series, heatsinks from Thermalright, Noctua, and Xigmatek are handing them their lunch. (snip) Time to move on.

Cons listed are a loud fan, high cost and poor low airflow performance. I'd get a proper tower heatsink (Ninja, Mugen or any other), leave off the fan and make a duct from the heatsink to the rear case fan.

mdrumt · Post by **mdrumt** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:20 pm

+1 to that, Zalman had their heyday...there are better brands, even a xigmatek s1283 or something similar where you can put your own fan on it would be a better pick IMO, that way you have more options

steppinwolf · Post by **steppinwolf** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:15 pm

Yeah, they're jumping on my case about the Zalman over in the system advice forum too.

On Newegg some say thermal performance is better on the CNPS9900 with the plastic shroud removed. Also the mount seems more secure than some others (don't want to warp my MB). But I'll research all of your suggestions. Thanks.

EDIT: I just read the SPCR review and see it provides measurements with and without the plastic shroud, but there was still not enough improvement to match the top-rated performers in cooling/noise. (Zalman website and Frosty Tech also mention removing the shroud.)

P.S. mdrumt, I thought kevral was our Define R2 guinea pig.

He sounds fairly happy overall, but then he's in Europe where it's available. Kevral, what do you think about quality of the Define R2 paint job?

ugrakarma · Post by **ugrakarma** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:20 pm

I was somewhat bored during the holidays and decided to switch one of the nix boxes into a define r2 for no apparent reason. Throwing everything inside was quite fast and it's easy to do the cable management as long as the cables are long enough. Otherwise I'd suggest getting some extension cables for the 24 pin and 4 pin cables. The case didn't stink as much as I read online but one of the top holes was missing a screw, still no biggie. There's limited room between the front door and the drive bays so getting a fan controller up there might be problematic to say the least. To alleviate the problem you get a simple extension slot cover fan controller to which you can hook up to 3 fans. For some odd reason that was white while the rest of the screws for example were black. The fans that come with the case are quiet with a slight ticking noise if you try to plant your ear next to them. How much do they move air is another matter and purely subjective evaluation is that not much compared to for example scythe slipstream with reasonable rpm. Trying to find a reset button or a hd light will take some doing since for some reason they have been omitted and the power led is quite bright for my taste. Overall I found it visually quite appealing but that's so subjective it doesn't really mean anything. Compared to for example antec p182 the build quality is somewhat flimsier, nothing drastically bad but still. For the price it's a tough case to beat but the biggest question is that does it make sense if you can afford a p182.

Edit.

Unfortunately I only have a crummy cam in the cell but I guess you at least get an idea of how bright the power led is. Extra points for guessing what craptastic case is in the middle...

http://beibe.tnnet.fi/~deicide/definer2.jpg

djphatic · Post by **djphatic** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:36 am

Have been looking at this case also and would love to hear more feedback from SPCR users and a review by SPCR would be excellent.

I currently have my system in an Akasa Eclipse which appears to have got abit louder though I think this is the PSU/GPU fans.

The 8 x 3.5" bays are what are attracting me towards the case though I am curious how this case performs as a silent system compared to the P183 as it can be had for around the same price in the UK.

mdrumt · Post by **mdrumt** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:52 pm

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2010/0 ... e-review/1

Fractal Design · Post by **Fractal Design** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:52 am

Hello Everybody,

As a Fractal Design representative I'd just quickly like to inform you about the overseas availability of the case:

Australia & New Zealand: We have now signed up a distributor in Australia & New Zealand, we hope the case to be readily available for purchase there in end of February or early March.

North America: Here we're currently still negotiating with different partners. We're taking our time to really find the right partner in this market. If you are eager to purchase the case, feel free to help us out by emailing inquiries to your retailer/etailer of choice

Prices: MSRP is not set in Australia/New Zealand, but in the US we expect the MSRP to be somewhere around 89-99 USD excl. VAT and shipping.
Concerning the price in EU, the recommended retail price is 89.90 EUR incl. VAT; although it usually retails at around 85 EUR incl. VAT. In reply to user teejays message: The price in NL will settle at 85-90 EUR pretty soon, if not already.

If anyone have any questions concerning our Define R2 case, or any other of our products for that matter, feel free to send me a PM or email.

ehume · Post by **ehume** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:56 pm

At 440mm tall, this 17.3-inch case will fit under my shelf. That makes it a definite possible.

At 207.40mm (I'll bet the paint varies more than 0.4mm) it is wider than the 200mm NZXT Beta Evo I am working on now. This should leave lots of room for both the bitumen and cable management.

The side-mounting of HD's is something I no longer consider optional: it really does get cables out of the way.

The one disappointment I see is that there is no provision for mid-case fans on the left (rearward) sides of the HD cage. In testing my own case I have discovered that even quiet fans there will enormously increase the airflow across the hard drives. They will also boost cooling of the PCH and the video cards on the MB.

A small quibble: the area between the expansion slots and the left panel could have been completely mesh and still included the water cooling hose grommets - like this.

Overall, I like this case. Wish it were available in the US.

Gunbuster · Post by **Gunbuster** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:18 am

djphatic wrote:Have been looking at this case also and would love to hear more feedback from SPCR users and a review by SPCR would be excellent.

I currently have my system in an Akasa Eclipse which appears to have got abit louder though I think this is the PSU/GPU fans.

The 8 x 3.5" bays are what are attracting me towards the case though I am curious how this case performs as a silent system compared to the P183 as it can be had for around the same price in the UK.

FYI comparing the prices on P183 and R2, the R2 is around Â£40 cheaper. That is quite a big gap. Its around Â£20 less than the P182, to me that saving might be enough to give the R2 it's own niche.

saitrix · Post by **saitrix** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:28 am

I wonder if you could remove the whole hard drive stack? I normally only have a single optical drive and a single hard drive. Use an adaptor to fit the hard drive in the 2nd optical bay. Would allow for a very open case without any retriction.

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:26 pm

saitrix wrote:I wonder if you could remove the whole hard drive stack? I normally only have a single optical drive and a single hard drive. Use an adaptor to fit the hard drive in the 2nd optical bay. Would allow for a very open case without any retriction.

You'd probably have to drill out a few rivets - it doesn't look like it would be designed to be removable. Doing so might also compromise the structural integrity of the case.

Fractal Design · Post by **Fractal Design** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:53 am

saitrix wrote:I wonder if you could remove the whole hard drive stack?

I'm afraid that's not possible. However, you can remove all the trays you do not use, and get a reasonably open path for air flow.

saitrix · Post by **saitrix** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:34 am

Surely it would be better to keep the trays in as it crudely directs the air flow between the vertical parts of the stack, whereas if you don't have any of the trays in it may go in various directions.

esuckq · Post by **esuckq** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:29 am

I wonder if you could remove the whole hard drive stack? I normally only have a single optical drive and a single hard drive. Use an adaptor to fit the hard drive in the 2nd optical bay. Would allow for a very open case without any retriction.

This is exactly what I spent half of yesterday doing! I only have one optical and one hard drive too. Despite the soft mountings I was still getting quite a lot of case vibration from the hard drive, so I decided to remove the whole hard drive stack and suspend my hard drive in front of the bottom intake fan. You need to cut/drill out 8 rivets to remove the stack, and it is a pain to do without damaging the paint, but if you're patient it does come out without compromising the case at all. After doing this I ran Prime95 and Furmark together for 20 mins to test the cooling, and my northbridge and case temps dropped by 10C each compared to an identical test prior to removing the stack! I can't remember how much the CPU temps dropped by, but there was a reduction across the board. I'm planning to double check the temps tonight but I'm pretty pleased so far...

saitrix · Post by **saitrix** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:12 am

Any chance of some pics esuckq?

esuckq · Post by **esuckq** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:34 am

Yea no problem, I'll see if I can get some up tonight... at work at the moment!

esuckq · Post by **esuckq** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:17 am

Here you go... some photos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47120256@N07

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:23 am

This is a great case, with all necessary features to make it a big hit...I prefer this one to Antec's P180...well if the antec offered 8hdds I might consider it more...

I would only argue that it could be just a little taller to accomodate an additional 5,25 bay and/or give a little bit more room-breathability on the top side and/or allow for a little bit more distance between the hdds to enhance airflow and cooling of the hard drives...at 44cm it can easily afford at least 5cm or more and still be on the "small" and discrete side of things...

@to fractal-design representative:

1) Are you planning to release a full/big midi tower along the same lines (silent operation, hdd capacity) as the define R2?

2) Are your products available in Greece? I haven't found any eshop selling them...

saitrix · Post by **saitrix** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:11 pm

Looks good, perfect for my needs. Such a nice open case so air should move very easy. How loud does the system seem so far?

esuckq · Post by **esuckq** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:06 pm

So far I'm pleased with the noise, however it's hard to tell as I have a faulty PSU which is running at full speed all the time and drowning everything else out! It's being RMAd soon so I should have a better idea in a week or two.

Compared to my old case- a non-descript generic cheap one- it is noticeably quieter, however. The soft mountings for the hard drives aren't ideal as you can still feel vibration in the case and if you put your ear to it there is a deep vibration hum, which isn't there now I've suspended it.

Temp wise, the reduction from removing the HDD stack wasn't as big as I had initailly thought, but my CPU core drops by 3C, NB by 4C and GPU by 1 or 2C, so there is some improvement.

saitrix · Post by **saitrix** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:42 pm

Still, can't complain with that sort of drop. Nice to see someone using this for a quiet system as majority seem to be using it for large overclocked systems.

New exciting case: Fractal Design - Define R2

Fractal Review

new fractal review @ bit-tech