Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

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Kerosene
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Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by Kerosene » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:08 am

I've just received all the bits for my new PC, and am planning on building it tomorrow.

Does anyone with an R3 have any suggestions for fan placement?
The factory set up looks like it should be OK to me.

I'll be running a fanless PSU and fanless GPU, and an i5 760 + Hyper 212 Plus, and would obviously like to keep the number of case fans to a minimum (1 IN and 1 OUT).

Here's a picture with some numbers. Out of the box, there are fans #2 and #4.
case.jpg
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Big Pimp Daddy
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by Big Pimp Daddy » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:37 am

To be honest I've cooled more powerful (more heat) kit than that with one 120mm fan. If I remember correctly the R3 has a 140mm fan mount at the rear or top-rear (position 4 or 5).
To start with I would try one 140mm fan in one of those positions, use the supplied blanking plates to block all unused positions apart from 1 and 2. You may have to do some tinkering to get temps where you want; remove any obstructions, unused 3.5" drive sleds, cut out grills etc.. Also you may need to put an undervolted fan on the CPU cooler. All depends on your temps. To get the best setup, testing is essential.
Obviously that CPU is going to contribute the majority of the heat into the case and the difference between idle and 4-cores loaded will be big so you'll want some kind of dynamic fan control (speedfan/BIOS smart-fan/drive bay fan controller) to keep the fans on low at idle and turned up a bit at load.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

12andy
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by 12andy » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:40 am

I've found that for optimal silence (with minimal compromise), only the 120mm rear and 120mm/ 140mm rear top are necessary.

Per a user-posted review, I've tried experimenting with a strictly positive pressure setup. Ran two undervolted 1200RPM Slipsteams up front which only created turbulent noise, as well as increased temps dramatically.

Both Slipstreams are at the rear/ rear top and are cooling a X4 940 @ 3.4 (stock volts, OCZ Vendetta 2) and 5870 (Twin Turbo Pro).

During realistic gaming scenarios, the temps easily stay within limits (unsure of ambient in my basement, though), and the system can barely be heard.

mkk
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by mkk » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:33 am

I moved my stuff over to an R3 last week. I was sceptical of the two included 120mm 1350rpm fans but found that they do nicely for quiet intakes at 5V. This means that they could do well enough as quiet uttakes in the back/upper rear positions if one only wants to use two fans. I opted for two Slip Stream 800rpm at 5V for outtakes. Initially I had hoped for just one 800rpm at or near 12V in the rear position and all modu-vents kept in. But the rear grate is simply too restrictive which leads to noise at any higher airflows. (my system has a 5850 gaming card so a good bit more airflow than a single 800 at 5V was needed) Normally I wouldn't hesitate to cut away at the metal but now I had gotten a white R3 to be placed on top of the desk rather than below. So far the opened rearmost top vent has not leaked too much noise thanks to quiet components.

I disregarded the included fan controller simply because I prefer not to have any when a low set speed works well enough, especially since these newer included fans do start at 5V.

Getting a quiet 140mm fan would be ideal for a single top exhaust setup with the standard rear opening blocked off, but I can only assume that Scythes 140mm fans are as good as the 120mm ones.

Kerosene
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by Kerosene » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:56 am

Well... after 2 days of testing, it seems that I'm going to be able to get away with a slow spinning exhaust fan and a slow CPU fan. I'm almost disappointed that it was this simple, and that I won't get to use more of the R3's fan positioning options :P

REAR EXHAUST: Included Fractal Design fan, on slowest setting using included fan controller. It's not silent, but it's quiet enough. I can't hear it from where I'm sitting.
CPU FAN: Nexus Real Silent, running at 25% with Speedfan. I can't hear it until about 60%.
FRONT INTAKE: Included Fractal Design fan in top drive bay, turned OFF with Speedfan. Will only be turned on in extreme situations

The hottest I could get everything (using Prime95 and FurMark) was CPU 57c, system 39c, GPU 56c.
This was a worst case scenario. Warm day, air con off, about 33c inside. Messy cables everywhere. With all of the R3 vent covers on. AND Speedfan manually set to lowest settings (CPU 25%, front fan OFF).
With the CPU fan cranked up a bit, the temps dropped massively.

Hopefully when the Australian summer really kicks in, I'll just have to manually crank up the rear fan a bit, and let Speedfan take care of the CPU fan on really hot days.

I'm VERY happy with the R3. It's a lot more compact that I was expecting, and the build quality/paint is better than I expected (I'd read a few mediocre reviews). I might end up buying a quieter rear exhaust fan, but not in a hurry.

netmask254
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by netmask254 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:46 am

The front fan is not necessary generally. If you are using Thermalright HR02, perhaps you can even save the CPU fan :lol:

Seems like R3 has inherent sound damping foam, how about its quality and can you hear the whooshing noise? In my Solo, I experience much larger noise after closing the side panel, which is thought to be resonance noise and may be overcome by sound damping material.

Kerosene
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by Kerosene » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:00 am

I thought I may as well leave the front fan in the case, even if I only use it on really hot days when the F3 is spinning up a storm.

The sound deadening in the case removes a lots of high frequency noise from the CPU fan, which I can hear if I open the front door and put my ear against it.
Then only thing I can hear with the door shut is a very low hum/rumble. If I lift it off my desk a few mm it becomes almost inaudible, so I'm guessing either the HDD needs to be rejiggered, or one of the fans needs some squishy mounts. I've only just brought the R3 into my office and put it on my desk, so I'll probably need to do some fine tuning with how things are mounted.

I'm really struggling to find fault with the R3...
The power button doesn't seem to sit entirely flush with the case - very minor issue.
One of the case thumbscrews was bent in transit.
It shows up fingerprints (at least in black).
Paint finish isn't showroom quality, but it's better than several reviews led me to believe.
Front panel plastic (behind the door) is a bit cheap looking.

I was worried that the foam would be flakey and tear easily - it's not. It's very dense.

guermantes
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by guermantes » Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:23 am

Kerosene,

1) Are you using any kind of enclosure for your Spinpoint?
I am having problems with 7200 RPM HDD noise coming from my R3.

2) When you say that you I also thought about replacing the two fans that came with the case (are supposed to be 15dBA).
Since you have both the included fans and a Nexus Real Silent, how would you estimate the difference between the two?

Thanks!

12andy
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by 12andy » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:49 pm

Guermantes: I've been noticing a similar thing, as mentioned in my other thread.

Kerosene
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by Kerosene » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:44 pm

1. The Spinpoint is mounted conventionally, and DOES hum. If I press on the rails a little bit, or pull it out of the cage completely, it goes away, so I'll probably end up suspending it. Seek sounds are audible, but it doesn't really bother me. I do have a lot of foam lying around at the moment though...

2. I can't give you any numbers, but to my ears the Nexus Real Silent is quieter than the R3 fans, but I haven't tried it as an exhaust, only on the CPU.

I'm just glad it all works at the moment. I'll get around to silencing it a bit more in the future.

mkk
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by mkk » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:09 pm

I've done away with my 7200rpm drives but had an idea that I didn't have time to try. Instead of using screws to fasten a 7200rpm drive I was thinking about tying the drive onto the drive sleds silicone buffers by a piece of cord or strap going lengthwise. Perhaps is makes no difference compared to loosely fitted screws but I'd give it a try. The R3 silicone buffers are effective enough for my 5400rpm HD204UI drives, screws not very tight just in case.

Kerosene
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by Kerosene » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:12 am

guermantes wrote:1) Are you using any kind of enclosure for your Spinpoint?
I am having problems with 7200 RPM HDD noise coming from my R3.
I just installed my old 500GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 to the R3, and while I was at it, I loosened the mounting screws (as far as I dared) on the Spinpoint. It has reduced the HUM/vibration noise to a point where I don't think I'll bother suspending it.

phabean
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Re: Fractal Design Define R3 - fan placement?

Post by phabean » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:36 am

Kerosene wrote:Well... after 2 days of testing, it seems that I'm going to be able to get away with a slow spinning exhaust fan and a slow CPU fan. I'm almost disappointed that it was this simple, and that I won't get to use more of the R3's fan positioning options :P

REAR EXHAUST: Included Fractal Design fan, on slowest setting using included fan controller. It's not silent, but it's quiet enough. I can't hear it from where I'm sitting.
CPU FAN: Nexus Real Silent, running at 25% with Speedfan. I can't hear it until about 60%.
FRONT INTAKE: Included Fractal Design fan in top drive bay, turned OFF with Speedfan. Will only be turned on in extreme situations

The hottest I could get everything (using Prime95 and FurMark) was CPU 57c, system 39c, GPU 56c.
This was a worst case scenario. Warm day, air con off, about 33c inside. Messy cables everywhere. With all of the R3 vent covers on. AND Speedfan manually set to lowest settings (CPU 25%, front fan OFF).
With the CPU fan cranked up a bit, the temps dropped massively.

Hopefully when the Australian summer really kicks in, I'll just have to manually crank up the rear fan a bit, and let Speedfan take care of the CPU fan on really hot days.

I'm VERY happy with the R3. It's a lot more compact that I was expecting, and the build quality/paint is better than I expected (I'd read a few mediocre reviews). I might end up buying a quieter rear exhaust fan, but not in a hurry.
Hey Kerosene

I did also testing and tried different setups:

2 x fractal intakes (ulna adapter), 1 x noctua cpu cooler 1000rpm, 1 x noctua rear exhaust 800rpm vs 1 x noctua cpu cooler 1000rpm, 1 x noctua rear exhaust 800rpm

prime95, furmark --> results are the same:

cpu min:25° - max:39°
gpu min:32° - max:56°

mobo/hardisk stays at 33-35°

I will test with some scythes 1200/800rpms tonight and see if I achieve better results. I haven't tried the 2 top exhausts yet.

The only thing bothering me right now is the 560ti with Fanspeed set as low as possible: 40% (still audible), without any warranty-voiding bios flashing hacks :-)

best,
phabean

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