Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

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markanini
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Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:21 pm

I'm considering ways to improve my old Antec Solo case. Here the system I have in mind:

CPU: Intel i5-2500K, Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme Rev.C or Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus, mild overclock
GPU: Single Geforce GTS 450 w/ aftermarket cooler
Storage: Crucial m4 SSD, 2x WD Green HDD's, 2x optical drives
PSU: Enermax Modu87+ or fan swap current Corsair VX450
Fans: Scythe S-flex 120mm on CPU and exhaust, 2x 92mm front intake
Other: PCI soundcard

So far I've covered the Honeycomb holes by the PCI slots to force air on the hot components berfore reaching outtake fans. Also I've enlarged the front bezel bottom intake holes.

I'm considering:
*Re-creating the top PSU vent of the new Antec Solo. "Hot air rises" so this helps getting rid of it around the PSU, right? Maybe even cram a slim fan in between the void.
*Something like a Scythe Kama Bay except for two 5.25 bays and a 80mm fan (still looking, would consider DIY). For getting more fresh air in the case and help it reach the top vent I guess.

Stuff I'm not sure about:
*Floor intake or side fan
*Ducting/Seperation

Please feel free to critique my ideas!

Vetotat
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by Vetotat » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:42 pm

markanini wrote:Re-creating the top PSU vent of the new Antec Solo. "Hot air rises" so this helps getting rid of it around the PSU, right?
Might lower the noise of the PSU since it will have cooler intake air. However, since the PSU fan always would force air downwards to the PSU, no hot air would rise out from it. A top cutout would act as a intake. The extra fan wouldn't be necessary I think. But I would install everything first and see if the PSU fan spins up because of the heat at load. If not, then there's really no reason to add a top intake. If you do, you will loose a 120mm exhaust fan that possibly would have to be compensated for in some way.

As for all your other modding considerations; what is the purpose of increasing the airflow? Do you need it? I would install the new components first to see if it's too hot. If it is; then increse airflow, if it's not; instead reduce airflow/noise (you are looking for a silent build aren't you?).

I doubt you need all those fans. My 250W SOLO build only have a single case fan @ 570rpm, and it's not even close to overheat. You could install that Kama Bay-equivalent, but you could let it act as a "passive" intake vent. I have a Kama bay but no fan attached, Just installing the Bay decreased the CPU temp with ~5*c, but it didn't matter if the fan was spinning or not so i removed the fan in it. A floor or side fan should not at all be needed in that case with those components.

KadazanPL
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by KadazanPL » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:56 pm

I think that none of the actions you mention are needed. Have a look at my sig, this system is far from overheating even under the heaviest of tasks, and remains quiet at all times. All I did was remove the honeycomb grill from the back (nice, audible improvement) and that's it.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:28 pm

markanini wrote:GPU: Single Geforce GTS 450 w/ aftermarket cooler

The MSI GTS 450 Cyclone OC would be enough quiet: I have a couple in a Raven, but I've tested into my Solo.
markanini wrote:Storage: Crucial m4 SSD, 2x WD Green HDD's, 2x optical drives

Two drives? Why? However, performance-wise, the WD Green drives are a tad outdated with reference to last Hitachi ones.
If you suspend them (as I think), you should go for these latters.
markanini wrote:Fans: Scythe S-flex 120mm on CPU and exhaust, 2x 92mm front intake

You don't need any intake, IMO/IME, with such a setup: I would consider a pair of SlipStream PWM, either 120 or 140mm, driven by the same CPU fan header, rather than the venerable (and expensive) S-Flex. The Kama Flex PWM is also a very good trade off. I am looking at PWM fans as several newer boards don't deal very well with standard voltage controlled fans at the CPU fan header.
markanini wrote:*Something like a Scythe Kama Bay except for two 5.25 bays and a 80mm fan (still looking, would consider DIY). For getting more fresh air in the case and help it reach the top vent I guess.

To do what? You don't need any intake, and without ducting no 80mm fan flow would reach any exhaust.
markanini wrote:Stuff I'm not sure about:
*Floor intake or side fan

To do what? IME at first sight, almost completely useless.
markanini wrote:*Ducting/Seperation

Only if you go passive/semi-passive for the CPU, IME.

markanini
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:24 am

Vetotat wrote:A top cutout would act as a intake.
I had no idea that would be the effect. Completely blows my mind! Does this change at all depending on the PSU design?
Vetotat wrote:what is the purpose of increasing the airflow?
Same reason all enthusiasts (or enthusiast wannabes like me :lol: ) obsess about these things. But I'm thinking about keeping components that rely on passive or second hand cooling like northbridge, HDDs, VRMs cool and not adding heat to CPU, GPU, PSU. I understand it wont improve performance. Also stories like these make me curious :wink: :
Vetotat wrote:You could install that Kama Bay-equivalent, but you could let it act as a "passive" intake vent. I have a Kama bay but no fan attached, Just installing the Bay decreased the CPU temp with ~5*c, but it didn't matter if the fan was spinning or not so i removed the fan in it.
It's somewhat relevant to me. In my current system I'm temporarily forced to use a Pentium D. When I open the two free 5.25 bay covers it's like a sauna. If I leave open for a while I'll see the temps go down a bit in Speedfan.
Last edited by markanini on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

markanini
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:24 am

quest_for_silence wrote: The MSI GTS 450 Cyclone OC would be enough quiet: I have a couple in a Raven, but I've tested into my Solo.

Thanks, I'll check it out.
quest_for_silence wrote: Two drives? Why? However, performance-wise, the WD Green drives are a tad outdated with reference to last Hitachi ones.
If you suspend them (as I think), you should go for these latters.
Do you mean the HDDs or ODDs? I need lots of storage and multi platter drives get nosiy. As for two ODDs I use one scratch drive for regular use and a better drive for burning and reading problematic discs. The non-scratch drive is very nice and no longer manufacturerd. :cry:

[quote=""quest_for_silence""]
You don't need any intake, IMO/IME, with such a setup: I would consider a pair of SlipStream PWM, either 120 or 140mm, drived by the same CPU header, rather than the venerable (and expensive) S-Flex. [/quote]
I already have the S-flexes and I don't mind having them at the intake at inaudible rpm's and if it helps cool the hard drives. Should I think otherwise? I get what you are saying about the Slipstream PWM, they're the other ones that use FDB at a reduced price. Definitely wish I knew about them before I went seraching for the S-flexes. Only avalible in Mongolia for 10 mules a piece. :lol:
Last edited by markanini on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

markanini
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:28 am

[quote=""quest_for_silence""]
markanini wrote:*Something like a Scythe Kama Bay except for two 5.25 bays and a 80mm fan (still looking, would consider DIY). For getting more fresh air in the case and help it reach the top vent I guess.

To do what? You don't need any intake, and without ducting no 80mm fan flow would reach any exhaust.
[/quote]
OK, I'll forget about the 80mm fan.
quest_for_silence wrote:
markanini wrote:Stuff I'm not sure about:
*Floor intake or side fan

To do what? IME at first sight, almost completely useless.
OK, point taken.


Thanks for the thoughtful replies and sorry for bringing up a discussion about a theoretical system. I'll report after the build is done, including temps, and see what ideas and suggestions I'll get at that point.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:56 am

markanini wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote: The MSI GTS 450 Cyclone OC would be enough quiet: I have a couple in a Raven, but I've tested into my Solo.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Trust me: no aftermarket heatsink can do a noticeably better job with that card (and no other GTS run so cooler and quiet).
markanini wrote:Do you mean the HDDs or ODDs? I need lots of storage and multi platter drives get nosiy.

I mean the HDDs. The newest Hitachi (5K1000.B and 7K1000.D) are 1-platter disks, 1TB each, while a 3 platters (600GB each) 5K3000 (1.5TB) is comparable to almost any WD Green (the four platters 2TB is almost on par).

If you need lots of storage for backup purposes, you might think even to some USB 3.0 Seagate GoFlex, I use them and they are really inaudible.
markanini wrote:As for two ODDs I use one scratch drive for regular use and a better drive for burning and reading problematic discs. The non-scratch drive is very nice and no longer manufacturerd. :cry:

But where/how do you want to mount any Kama Bay with two ODDs? EDIT: sorry, you don't want a real Kama Bay, but a shorter-like.
markanini wrote:I already have the S-flexes and I don't mind having them at the intake at inaudible rpm's and if it helps cool the hard drives. Should I think otherwise? I get what you are saying about the Slipstream PWM, they're the other ones that use FDB at a reduced price.

The SlipStream aren't FDB fans, the Kama Flex PWM are so. And they are a bit less quiet than the cheap SS, and a bit less flexible with reference to voltage. But still very good, as your S-Flex.

However, as already said, nowadays several SB boards doesn't work with a 3-pin fan on the CPU fan header (mainly ASUS).
This is mainly why I've advice for PWM fans (so you could need at least one new fan): spare your 3-pin headers for any 92mm front intake, if in case (or 120mm ones, if you mod the bezel).

kuzzia
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by kuzzia » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:37 am

I can personally recommend the fan-swap. I've fan swapped the Corsair CX400W myself, and it's constructed completely like the VX450W. You will only need a screw driver.

May I suggest the Nexus Real Silent mm fan (SPCR reference fan). These can be purchased at quietpc.com (shipping to Sweden cost less than 3 euro.) The 80, 92, and 120 mm variants cost 5-8 euro, including MOMS. These fans need undervolt, however.

Vetotat
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by Vetotat » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:01 am

markanini wrote:
Vetotat wrote:A top cutout would act as a intake.
I had no idea that would be the effect. Completely blows my mind! Does this change at all depending on the PSU design?
Oh, that requieres the PSU to be mounted upside down with the fan facing the top. If the fan is facing downwards, as usual, or if it has a horizontal airflow design, the top vent will not act as a direct intake for the PSU. But to cut open a hole above the PSU and not use it as a direct intake (or if passive PSU; exhaust) would be IMO pointless.

SebRad
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by SebRad » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:05 am

Hi, on my PC to improve airflow I've gone with holes in the floor and taller feet. Like this solution as feeding cold air to the video card, that most needed it and doesn't affect the appearance of the PC (much!)
See here and process here.

Regards, Seb

quest_for_silence
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:49 am

SebRad wrote:See here and process here.

Mein gott! (BTW, you worked on an alu enclosure: it's not the same thing, I mean. And ou also swap the Signature fan with an AC one... what a shame! :-)

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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by frenchie » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:55 am

Hi

In my Solo, I added a KamaBay without the fan ; CPU temps dropped a few degrees and I’m sure PSU temps are also much better (the hot air from the GPU is diluted in cooler air before reaching the PSU). I think this is a good move that doesn’t add any noise if you think GPU heat might be a problem. I also suspended my hard drive behind the KamaBay (frees up the drive bays).
For the lower part of the case, my personal favorite is to put a 120mm fan between the hard drive bays and the video card(s). At 9V is inaudible inside the case and it provides a steady flow of cool air to the GPU. For the intakes, I removed all the hard drive trays (I don’t have any drives in there) and the fan door/filter altogether.
The setup in my sig (about 330 Watts at full load, which is most of time while folding) operates just fine with the stock coolers on the two gts450 @32%, the intake 120 mm Nexus @9V, the exhaust 120mm Nexus fan @9V, and the fan on the PSU barely audible (it does push some air out and it goes fanless if I turn the folding off and let the computer idle for a few minutes). At the standard 1m distance, all I hear is a very quiet whoosh of air, and even then, I have to listen to it to hear it.
I have to post pics one of these days.

Hope that helps !

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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by frenchie » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:10 am

SebRad wrote:Hi, on my PC to improve airflow I've gone with holes in the floor and taller feet. Like this solution as feeding cold air to the video card, that most needed it and doesn't affect the appearance of the PC (much!)
See here and process here.

Regards, Seb
I can't believe you haven't cut out the PCI slot holders yet !!

markanini
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:17 pm

I can't help but wonder if I should consider retiring my Solo for PSU on the floor case such as Fractal Define R3. From what I gather it seems more in-line with the 'silent and high performance by many low spinning fans' approach I want to realize. Any comments on this one?

@ quest_for_silence: Thanks for the useful suggestions. Especially about the MSI Cyclone. I looked a dozen reviews on it sibling n550gtx-ti and was impressed by how well it stood in the thermals and noise charts. The manufacturer offers a nice advanced software fan control program which further sweetens the deal.

@Vetotat: I didnt consider the PSU Being mounted upside down! Seems like a clever trick.

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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:00 pm

markanini wrote:I can't help but wonder if I should consider retiring my Solo for a reverse-ATX case such as Fractal Define R3. From what I gather it seems more in-line with the 'silent and high performance by many low spinning fans' approach I want to realize. Any comments on this one?

A Fractal R2/R3 is roughly equivalent to the P182/P183 (I owned a P182, but no FD enclosures): they all offer more thermal headroom, they are more "efficient", but - within each own limits - no quietness advantage over a Solo (or Solo II, I suppose), neither any build-quality advantage (but more ease of use), with reference to FD ones.

With the proposed setup, more probably that not you won't exploit usefully that superior thermal headroom: I think that we are about three people who would use no more than 1 case fan for that scenario.

So if you have some money to do your own experience, enjoy it; if you want to spare that money, IMO you shouldn't regret at all.
markanini wrote:@ quest_for_silence: Thanks for the useful suggestions. Especially about the MSI Cyclone. I looked a dozen reviews on it sibling n550gtx-ti and was impressed by how well it stood in the thermals and noise charts. The manufacturer offers a nice advanced software fan control program which further sweetens the deal.

Be careful: I can speak that way for the 450 only, I don't know the newer GTX 550 Cyclone II (which looks like to me slightly less efficient than the former, power-wise).
It might be a quiet card, indeed, but the only 550 I've used (briefly) was a borrowed EVGA one, and it was way much noisier than my 450 Cyclone OC.

markanini
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:42 pm

Does the improved thermal headroom help with cooling an overclocked i5-2500k at low fan RPMs?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:16 pm

markanini wrote:Does the improved thermal headroom help with cooling an overclocked i5-2500k at low fan RPMs?
IMO, with reference to absolute figures, yes. Practically, in a properly set up system, no (IMVHO even a huge 5° C edge won't let you run your fans slower, nor it would be beneficial for actual CPU lifetime.)

The only thing a classic Solo cannot deal *perfectly* with is a GPU over 150-200W of TDP (or more than three drives, IME/IMO).
With a 4.5-5GHz 2500K, a 100W GTS 450, up to two drives, a proper CPU cooler and one well controlled exhaust, it is perfectly fine.

But it can deal reasonably well even with more power hungry setups, such as AznJason's one:

Image

Or the frenchie's one too.

As already said, it's just a matter of fun: if you'd like to play with a new "toy", and you have some spare money, buy an R3 (or whatever else). But you won't gain nothing more than that fun. IMO.

markanini
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:10 am

I'll be ordering parts in the coming days. Have decided on and found sources for:
Fractal R3
i5-2500k,RAM
Thermalright U.120eX. Rev. C
Scythe Kama Flex PWM fans

Still undecided on the motherboard. What's the word on current Z68 offerings? I hear Asus has superior fan speed control.
Also for a PSU upgrade I'm considering Seasonic X-650, it measured lower dBs out of the hotbox and sounded less tonal to me than Modu87+ in the sound clips(turned volume way down and listened through studio grade closed headphones). It's been discontinued and replaced by X-660. Any word or speculation on how they might compare?

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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:45 am

markanini wrote:Still undecided on the motherboard. What's the word on current Z68 offerings? I hear Asus has superior fan speed control.

Providing you have all PWM fans, it is true.
But also MSI is a very good vendor (with somewhat better support for voltage controlled fan).
I have just doubts that you need a Z68 chipset: IMO with a discrete graphics, it's better to spare some bucks and going for a P67.
markanini wrote:Also for a PSU upgrade I'm considering Seasonic X-650, it measured lower dBs out of the hotbox and sounded less tonal to me than Modu87+ in the sound clips(turned volume way down and listened through studio grade closed headphones). It's been discontinued and replaced by X-660. Any word or speculation on how they might compare?

They should be identical at your presumable power draw, with reference to noise level. About tonal quality, IMVHO no reasonable guesswork can be argued (about it, or its supposed twin, the Corsair AX-650).

Due to your parts, you might look also for a fanless X-Series (or a SuperFlower/Kingwin).

markanini
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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:18 pm

Thanks, Luca! Always helpful. :)

The SSD caching and Virtu features look too compelling for me to pass on. After looking around a bit I'm leaning toward a low-end Asrock board 'Z68 Po3'. Reviews are favorable and this report looks promising: viewtopic.php?p=549132#p549132

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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by Teh Lurv » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:54 pm

I used to use a Kama Bay, but I eventually removed it and restored the original Solo bay covers. I haven't noticed any difference in CPU temp and acoustically my PC sounds better. I think just removing the steel bay shields and letting the intake air flow in through the front panel side openings is enough.

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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:45 am

Image
So here we are now. The Z68 SSD cahing didnt turn out to be applicable for me. I'm rather impressed by i5 onboard graphics though, video neither tears or jekrs, some flash video streams looks higher quality than they did in the 9800GT. Haven't gotten to OC-ing yet. Still waiting for delivery of Thermalright u-120eX Rev.C but stock cooler is pretty quiet at 800rpm, for now. Asrock fan control is pretty satisfactory, running two S-Flex case fans at a 700rpm via bios settings, CPU fan ramps up pretty swiftly during heavy processing. HDD temps have dropped by 10 degrees C in the new case, nice! I miss the more solid feel of the Solo but no biggie really and R3 aestetics are more to my taste than equivilent Antec offerings. HDD bay mount is as good as Antecs, 1.5TB WD GP running close to silent with AAM enabled. 3TB WD GP is noiser like in the Solo and stays spinned down when not in use. I'll probably enjoy a modular PSU for the cable management once I get it, Corsair VX450 always whines during low CPU load. Has anybody run an u120ex Rev.C in push-pull? Would be glad to test that and report if anyone thinks it might be worthwhile.

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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:38 am

markanini wrote:Would be glad to test that and report if anyone thinks it might be worthwhile.

Any repeatable test is always worthwile, IMO.

Said that, IMVHO you won't squeeze more than 1-2°C from such a push-pull, so that the classical duct to the back exhaust should work better, if in case.

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Re: Improving airflow and cooling in old Antec Solo

Post by markanini » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:33 pm

Good to know. I'll give the push-pull config a try and report back. As you can see from my sig. I've already indulged in some OC'ing, mostly for fun though. At stock my apps run so much faster than before. Certainly has been a worthwhile upgrade so far performance-wise. Very content with the on-chip graphics, runs all my multimedia and video apps without a glitch (at stock settings), I might just skip the discrete GPU entirely unless there a good GPGPU app that I can't be without. After a PSU upgrade to I'll just be a HDD swap away from a perfect system(holding out for large 1TB/platter <7200prm drives). Reports say Ivy Bridge will only require a CPU swap so hopefully it will hold true.

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