Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

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dontknow
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Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by dontknow » Tue May 26, 2015 6:27 pm

Happened to stumble upon the news release for this case.

http://www.thermaltake.com/products-mod ... C_00002676

My initial thoughts is that it looks very similar to a Fractal Design Define series case. It is neat that you can place a 200mm fan in the front. I also think the magnetic filter strip on the top is interesting. Unfortunately I could not find a price or availability details yet. Looks to be a good case if it can be priced right.

edh
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by edh » Wed May 27, 2015 4:20 am

Thermaltake don't have a great history when it comes to noise. It would be nice to think they have changed but I think when they talk about noise here they're more talking about trying to damp down really loud powerful equipment, not making things properly silent. You only have to look at their SPL measurements to see that they have managed to get a system to ~30dB which is not at an SPCR level.

The thing is really quite big which I don't particularly like. Too much for 'enthusiasts', whatever one of those is.
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JJAP
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by JJAP » Sun May 31, 2015 11:04 am

Tweaktown posted an ecstatic review of the case:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7161/t ... ndex8.html

kellym2
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by kellym2 » Sun May 31, 2015 3:53 pm

Not a review, but a nice overview here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyBYsUOWZno

xan_user
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by xan_user » Sun May 31, 2015 4:18 pm

my personal experience with TT is such that id never give them another cent.
that aside, I dont see what there is to get excited about at $120...

"a 34dB reading of noise from the exhaust fan."

"the 200mm fan is choked off with dual fan filters, and of course is mostly blocked by the HDD cage, allowing temperatures to get a tad warmer than we are used to seeing."
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:04 am

xan_user wrote:that aside, I dont see what there is to get excited about at $120...

There's a much better presentation at HardwareLuxx (though I don't trust TT either, so that outcome looks more than a tad surprising to me).

IMVHO the mileage may vary, a lot, with that enclosure.
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by HammerSandwich » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:35 am

And HardOCP liked it, FWIW.

None of these sites really get quiet, so I'd like to see an SPCR review.

kater
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by kater » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:08 am

The case is just a blatant rip-off - TPU articl + comments

Never liked Tt myself, they either provided seriously unrealistic data (120mm fans @ 2000 RPM and only 7.48 dB or some such), or simply went for childish bling. Well, it's a free world (mostly) so anyone can choose how to run their own business, but it just seems to me they simply employed way too many PRopaganda and marketing people, and not nearly enough down to earth engineers.

I do hope Fractal, CaseLabs et al will team up and shred Tt.

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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by Das_Saunamies » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:12 pm

Tt aren't even trying anymore. I think they made the power button square just to rub it in: "LOOK, it's not the same, this one shape is different (but the texture and visual style are not)!!1"

Having to build around a standard format (ATX, mATX, mini ITX, etc.) does mean the black boxes will resemble each other, but come on now; stealing the CaseLabs designs is an even more outrageous move, because they are not minimalistic or standard in any way. Seems the old saying still holds true: all Thermaltake know how to make is noise.

I'm with kater on the lawsuit.
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Dxun
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by Dxun » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:09 pm

The case is obviously heavily derived from R4/R5 but immitation is the highest form of flattery after all and looking at the reviews, they've added a few nice touches/improvements to R5. Looking at the vitriol around TT, it seems company likes to copy designs around yet no one has so far pressed charges, so I imagine they also change/improve sufficiently the design so no one can accuse them of outright plagiarism. I won't argue on the morality of that policy but from a strictly buyer's perspective, it adds to options, diversity and competition, which almost always benefits the buyer.

Looking at the case reviews, here are a few thoughts.

Like:
0) Additional front filter
1) Upside filter (for those interested in mounting radiators topside)
2) Upside shield seems more solid as opposed to ModuVents and is fastened with screws instead of being just clipped on with a piece of plastic

Don't like:
3) The control panel up top may have production issues (a couple of reviewers mentioned similar problems with it - one with the power-on button being flimsily made and the other complaining they couldn't get the HDD light to light up)
4) Split bottom filter (I think it produces more problems than it solves. I imagine people don't often have bottom cooling at all and usually position their cases close to the wall or table backside, so just to clean the power supply filter you have to mess around with the case, move it away from the wall to clean the filter once in a while instead of just pulling the whole thing out and cleaning it in one fell swoop)
5) Missing 2.5'' mounting spots behind the motherboard (though probably offset with removable 5.25'' caddies)
6) Door opening mechanism is fixed to a single side

Given the final design being so similar to R5, I would be really surprised if F51 and R5 differ from each other acoustically, though as reading your posts above, TT may have a bad rep for a reason (can't really say myself, never owned anything from them).

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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by Das_Saunamies » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:12 am

You're right, Dxun, in that it does make (ruthless) business sense, and that's one reason there is outright hate for Tt: they just want your money and don't much care how they get it.

Their marketing has been brazenly false (ludicrous dB claims, incorrect wattage), their original designs less than user friendly (expensive, noisy, poor fixings), and then they've resorted to copying decent manufacturers who have improved the industry through good designs and practices - innovation. The first two date back a decade or more, which is when I resigned myself from ever buying Tt again, and the last one has been a repeating pattern for a while.

Tt with this sort of cheap cloning is not contributing, but undermining: they are poised to take revenue and credit from the original designers and manufacturers, who in turn may not be able or willing to contribute more (for example these additions you mentioned could have been the next evolution of the case, perhaps). If people are ragging on Tt about this, then it's because Tt is currently, after habitually lying to consumers for years and making questionable products, in the process of shitting on some beloved companies of the computer industry (by, again, making questionable products) - one of which Tt is not, as successful as their business may be.

This does not benefit us consumers in the long run. Surely we want innovators and quality, not crap and clones and questionable businesses?

Regarding legal action: it is not always because you don't have a case that you don't press charges, but because you may not be able to (not enough legal resources for int'l cases, no patents; plagiarism can indeed be hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt in court) or willing to (not enough money to see the case through). Unless we get an official OK from the original manufacturers ('yay, we got copied, thank you for the compliment'), I'm going to assume the latter - see below.

Reading the LegitReviews article the TPU snippet is for sheds more light on the issue: http://www.legitreviews.com/thermaltake ... far_165153.
Kevin Keating, CaseLabs Vice President wrote:For all who have read this, thank you for taking the time. We have worked tirelessly on our designs and can’t just sit back while people rip us off. I am asking everyone to share this post. Please, it needs to be done or businesses like Thermaltake will continue to taint the industry with rip-off products. To all of you who noticed the stolen concepts and took the time to tell us, thank you your support means the world to us.
PS. This is one thing Web 2.0 and social media are good for, awareness (not the like-for-awareness kind). It costs practically nothing and could have a significant effect on consumer behaviour, much better than legal action that could potentially cost millions for no result whatsoever in the near future - even names like Nokia, Samsung, and Apple have hesitated to go after each other over plagiarism, and they've had actual patents and deep enough pockets to do so.
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dontknow
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by dontknow » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:16 pm

Good link to the legitreviews post. That definitely shed some light on things I don't follow too often. My opinion of Thermaltake has changed.

Dxun
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by Dxun » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:57 pm

Das_Saunamies wrote: ...Reading the LegitReviews article the TPU snippet is for sheds more light on the issue: http://www.legitreviews.com/thermaltake ... far_165153....
Yes, that is actually the link I had had in mind when I mentioned vitriol.

I think I understand the points you're trying to make, however, strictly speaking, I still view their business model as legitimate. My background is software engineering and over the course of years I've seen stuff being emulated (read: blatanly copied) and then improved upon, in the end producing better products and better services; it is such free, competitive and open model that usually yields the best innovation and value propositions for buyers and only those who cannot (or won't) adjust to the changes run their business into the ground (to paraphrase W. Churchill, liberal capitalism is the worst form of economic system except all others that were tried).

As a well-known historical example, look at the IBM PC revolution and what an open, free-to-copy architecture brought about. At that time (1981) IBM actually had an in-house, order of magnitude more powerful RISC CPU and more advanced OS than Microsoft's PC DOS 1.0 but still they decided to copy(!) Apple II open architecture and provide technical information to implementors. Nobody accused companies making cheap IBM PC clones of not contributing and undermining IBM. To extend this, I think you make too speculative an argument saying case cloners such as TT siphon off revenue from original designers - do you think any company would ever evolve their design if no one had forced them to? Hardly.

The only 'questionable' thing I see here is TT alleged misrepresentation of products and over-marketing. While that too can be a legitimate business strategy (even though you and I may not find it acceptable or agreeable), such strategies usually quickly death-spiral the company by ruining the confidence of their customers. So it remains to be seen if TT will be a "dishonest cloner" bound to join the legions of forgotten/ruined companies or will they bring some more true innovation to the game and stand toe-to-toe with the best in the field (such as FD, Lian Li and Antec, just to name a few).

To prevent going too much on a tangent, I'll just stop here and say that I'd still very much like to see a comparison of F51 vs R5 vs Define S - F51 as it is definitely improves on certain aspects of FD Define R5/S and I would personally be interested to see if these improvements justify the $120 price tag of F51.

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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by xan_user » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:49 pm

matters not who they copy, or if they do. Tt has a astoundingly horrible track record of actually delivering on any of their promises, or specs. Why (try and) trust them now?
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Dxun
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by Dxun » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:37 pm

I am not saying we should do anything a priori. Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions and bias(es) but in the end what we ought to do is test it and compare it with its peers when it comes out as objectively as possibly - nothing more, nothing less.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:44 pm

Dxun wrote:in the end what we ought to do is test it and compare it with its peers when it comes out as objectively as possibly - nothing more, nothing less.

That's about right, but, in the end, set aside performances, with reference to what TT stated, there's a chance they are blatant liars: in case, do you trust liars, just because they may offer a somewhat valuable product?
Regards,
Luca

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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by faugusztin » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:00 am

Dxun wrote:I think I understand the points you're trying to make, however, strictly speaking, I still view their business model as legitimate. My background is software engineering and over the course of years I've seen stuff being emulated (read: blatanly copied) and then improved upon, in the end producing better products and better services; it is such free, competitive and open model that usually yields the best innovation and value propositions for buyers and only those who cannot (or won't) adjust to the changes run their business into the ground (to paraphrase W. Churchill, liberal capitalism is the worst form of economic system except all others that were tried).
You can be inspired, while not making a total copy. There is a bunch of cases which are like Fractal Define series, but not one looked exactly like the Define series, up until Thermaltake. Nanoxia ? They have dual door system, chimney system - recognizable in one look. Corsair ? A very different design, recognizable in one look. NZXT H-series cases ? Again, unique look. CM Silencio ? Again, unique look.

All have unique external appearance, while having same or similar feature set (being silent). And then comes Thermaltake, which is indistinguishable from the Define R4/R5 - same front door design, same front door vent system (even the proportions are the same), same everything outside the top panel - but even that is so heavily "inspired" by the Define that it hurts, pretty much the only reach change is swapping circles for squares and adding the fan controller control to the top. panel.

Also keep in mind, this is Thermaltake we talk about. So i expect the $120 Thermaltake copy of the $110 Fractal Define R5 to use thinner metal and being flimsier overall.

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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by Pappnaas » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:34 am

Well, if it is a copy or a rip off is a thing usually lawyers and judges have to see about.

What strikes me is the fact, that Tt has a reputation and a market share, wich i think is bigger than fractal's.

We at SPCR should be aware that we are a tiny fraction of all users out there. I. E. if you look at THG forum, all the "experts" promote AIO liquid cooler to be the most silent cooling solution, they claim them to be vastly superior over any air cooler. The same experts recommend 800W PSU if you have a single 960 (or higher) GPU in your system.

So i'm afraid in a few month joe average THG expert will claim that fractal has ripped off the god-like Tt case. Go figure...

darren
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by darren » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:34 am

Dxun wrote:To prevent going too much on a tangent, I'll just stop here and say that I'd still very much like to see a comparison of F51 vs R5 vs Define S - F51 as it is definitely improves on certain aspects of FD Define R5/S and I would personally be interested to see if these improvements justify the $120 price tag of F51.
I agree. Has anyone seen a direct comparison of these two models in terms of features, construction quality, ease of assembly and especially noise with stock fans?

I happened to find the F51 on Newegg and it's currently $105.99 with free shipping after rebate, making it a bit cheaper than the R5.

Stratohero
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Re: Thermaltake Suppressor F51

Post by Stratohero » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:43 am

wow, this case is amazing!

It's like they combined everything good from Define R5 and Corsair 330R and then improved it some more!

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