Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 please

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

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Riotubes
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Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 please

Post by Riotubes » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:29 pm

Hi,

I'm building a new PC this week and would appreciate feedback from those experienced with this R5 case on a few configuration choices.

The parts:
- Asus Z170-A 1151 mobo
- i7-6700K CPU with Scythe Ninja 4 cooler
- 2x8 DDR4 TridentZ
- EVGA 980 TI Hybrid (AIO) pci-e 16x (10.5" length)
- SAMSUNG SM951 M.2 256GB PCI-Express 3.0 Internal SSD
- 3.5" HDD SATA III
- Optical drive
- EVGA Supernova P2 850W psu

Questions:
1) The GPU is a monster 10.5" long and draws 250W. Where should I place the fan?
2) For best airflow and temps, would you go with top, bottom or middle HD cage placement in the case?
3) Where in the cage should I install the 3.5" HDD (top, bottom or middle slot within the cage)?
4) Should I remove the other HDD cage not in use?
5) Do you recommend I add any fans in addition to the stock ones?
6) I presume there is not more than a single placement alternative for the Z170 mobo?

Thank you!

lodestar
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by lodestar » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:37 am

Riotubes wrote:1) The GPU is a monster 10.5" long and draws 250W. Where should I place the fan?
Where it should go is almost self-selecting, will have to be the top middle exhaust position.
Riotubes wrote:2) For best airflow and temps, would you go with top, bottom or middle HD cage placement in the case?
Bottom HD cage only should be required if you are using only one HDD drive.
Riotubes wrote:3) Where in the cage should I install the 3.5" HDD (top, bottom or middle slot within the cage)?
Not sure this makes any difference, having the drive opposite a fan provides a degree of active cooling but the amount is probably not at all critical.
Riotubes wrote:4) Should I remove the other HDD cage not in use?
Yes, it will improve the air flow from the top fan.
Riotubes wrote:5) Do you recommend I add any fans in addition to the stock ones?
Given that the Asus Z170 board has excellent fan control facilities which includes PWM chassis fan headers and the facility to set a BIOS profile for each header you may wish to consider replacing the two supplied fans with PWM models. The deluxe choice is the Noctua NF-A14 140mm; alternatively for a bit less money there is the Fractal Venturi HP-14 PWM 140mm. I would suggest that you fit two fans to the front intakes and one as rear exhaust. A rear exhaust PWM fan should be plugged into the CPU_OPT header on the motherboard. This header mirrors the settings of the CPU fan PWM header, it syncs the exhaust with the cooler fan. If you go the PWM chassis fan route the chassis fan headers should be set to PWM mode in the BIOS. I would advise that the BIOS Silent profile is selected for both the CPU and chassis fans. This will give you the quietest idle speeds but will automatically ramp up fan speeds under gaming stress.
Riotubes wrote:6) I presume there is not more than a single placement alternative for the Z170 mobo?
Only one placement is possible.

Riotubes
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by Riotubes » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:35 am

Thanks for walking me through this step by step. With the PWM fans, you said:
I would suggest that you fit two fans to the front intakes and one as rear exhaust. A rear exhaust PWM fan should be plugged into the CPU_OPT header on the motherboard. This header mirrors the settings of the CPU fan PWM header, it syncs the exhaust with the cooler fan.
From the look of it, there is one stock rear exhaust fan mounted high, and a single intake stock fan mounted middle front. With the drive cage mounted in the bottom of the case, does this mean two intake pwm fans mounted above it (middle and high on the case)?

Sorry for such rudimentary questions!

lodestar
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by lodestar » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:37 am

The front two intake fans are actually installed by opening the door, removing the fan filter and using the supplied bolts to fix the fans to the mountings from the front. The drive cages can only be accessed from inside the case, and if both are fitted they block the air flow from both the front fans to some extent. If you can remove the top drive cage this gives a potentially better air flow for the top fitted front fan.

Ken5d
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by Ken5d » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:22 pm

lodestar wrote:Given that the Asus Z170 board has excellent fan control facilities which includes PWM chassis fan headers and the facility to set a BIOS profile for each header you may wish to consider replacing the two supplied fans with PWM models.
As I'm still waiting for the 6700K chip to fall to more reasonable prices, I haven't yet had a chance to build my system. I wasn't planning on replacing the two R5-supplied fans. Are they noisy at their lowest (voltage-controlled) speeds? My current system is fairly close to silent when idling; I certainly wouldn't want an increase in noise for my new system.
i7 920 (Nehalem), Asus P6T Deluxe V2, Megahalems, Antec P183, Antec CP-850, HIS Radeon HD 4670, 12GB OCZ Platinum DDR3-1600, 2 Intel 330 Series SSDs, 1 Seagate Barracuda XT 3TB, Pioneer Blu-ray burner.

CA_Steve
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:46 pm

I always suggest trying the supplied case fans first.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Riotubes
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by Riotubes » Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:30 pm

I'm in the middle of this build and could use quick help. I don't know where to install the exhaust fan that comes with the evga gtx 980 TI Hybrid. The two apparent choices are:

1. There's a knockout on the side panel

2. Bottom of case just forward the PSU and before the lower cage in which I've installed the the one HDD. The bottom the fractal define R5 case is vented.

Thoughts?

One other Q. The scythe ninja 4 cpu cooler is massive. There is barely clearance for the ram but just by a hair. The fan is supposed to attach to the heatsink above the ram but no way! I could put it facing the GPU, the top of case, or facing the one exhaust fan that is on rear panel. Best spot?

Thanks!
Last edited by Riotubes on Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

lodestar
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by lodestar » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:17 pm

For the 980 TI Hybrid exhaust fan the side fan position will probably be the most practical, if clearances are OK.

The fan on the Ninja can be positioned pointing up at the roof of the case, I have used this arrangement on past builds and it will work alright.

andyb
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by andyb » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:28 pm

The side panel option would be bad IMO as the fan will likely make the side panel shake which will create additional noise, also it will be a PITA to get into the case again once its built.

Can you attach it to the back of the drive cages, if so that might be an idea, otherwise you could try removing a drive cage and replacing one of the front fans or the top panel if it will reach.

As for the CPU cooler, you could have the fan on the bottom of the Ninja, there should be enough clearance above the graphics card to be effective as its so close to the rear case fan it will cool very well regardless, but these are only suggestions from looking at pictures of the case, you may have to experiment a little. good luck :)

Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

Riotubes
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by Riotubes » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:55 pm

I really appreciate all of the support.
I've attached a pic which shows the current layout. I shifted the cpu fan which was facing the roof of the case so that it is now facing the gpu, in order to make room for the gpu fan which vents to the roof of case. I presume that this is an exhaust fan and not meant to be blowing air on the gpu? Mounting the fan on the side panel seemed like the logical spot but I think it may prove cumbersome when removing the side panel.

With the cpu fan now facing the gpu I couldn't use pci slot #1 for the gpu and instead have it in slot #2. I presume this is ok?

It's hard to tell in the pic, but the gpu hoses do clear the cpu heat sink and do not seem to be strained.

While these components have seemed to have found a "home", due to my total lack of experience, I couldn't say whether this is an adequate build as far as circulation and temp. Look OK?

Please excuse my rudimentary questions. Thanks!
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andyb
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by andyb » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:32 am

Looks good to me.

Only a couple of minor points to add.

The open fan position in the roof would create a "short circuit" for the airflow which would not be good, this should be blocked off or a fan should be installed there.

If no additional fan is installed in the roof, I would suggest moving the radiator for the GPU so its next to the rear fan, this will reduce any potential strain on the hoses and the general airflow to the top back corner of the case is better than it being split between the top and the back with a gap in between, the hoses will not cause any real issue with the airflow as they are round and smooth so their interference will be minimal.

Looks like a nice high-powered build.

Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

Riotubes
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by Riotubes » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:19 am

Thanks Andy. I'm looking at the rear of the case and I'm just not seeing where the GPU radiator fan would fit. Just to clarify, since posting the pic above, I've refitted the top rear "moduvent" of the case so the only top segment that is vented is directly above the radiator.

OK, so I just removed the lower drive cage. See pic. I can just place the single HDD on the floor elevated by rubber washers and double sided tape. This creates room to mount the GPU radiator fan in the lower front of case. I have a pci-e m.2 SSD on the mobo and an SSD in addition to this HDD.

Is this an improvement (GPU radiator mounted to lower front of case) over the prior layout with the radiator on top of the case?

I do have two extra silverstream AP121 fans that could be used if helpful.
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doyll
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by doyll » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:06 am

I've been involved in building several Define cases. If it will be setting on the floor a open center castor base not only makes it much easier to move system to clean PSU filter, but greatly increases the airflow to bottom vents. R5 filter slides out the front anyway, but adding a bottom intke with the 2x front intakes should be all the case fans you need. There are several Define builds out there with no exhaust fans at all .. not back or top. The intake fans move the air right on through the case.

You might want to consider setting up your case fans to cycle with CPU and GPU fans to supply airflow as need by components. This also means system is dead quiet when it's not working hard.

Builds I've been involved with usually use a better pressure fan for front intakes to overcome filter and grill resistance.

SilentWar
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by SilentWar » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:45 am

doyll wrote:Builds I've been involved with usually use a better pressure fan for front intakes to overcome filter and grill resistance.
How well do you think the Phanteks PH-F140HP would overcome the filter and grill resistance? SPCR tested them as a CPU fan. They reportedly have good static pressure, but would non-CPU fans fair better on the case intake?

Also, in my case, I've taken out all the hard drive cages near the intake.

doyll
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by doyll » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:07 am

PH-F140HP should do a good job. I have used the PH-F140HP, but not the new PH-F140HP II.
According to the specs they are about the same, but I would expect the F140HP II to be better.
Image
Do keep in mind these are rounded fans with 120m fan mounts. Most cases do not play well with 120mm mounting holes on 140mm fans. ;)

Riotubes
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Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by Riotubes » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:53 pm

doyll wrote:If it will be setting on the floor a open center castor base not only makes it much easier to move system to clean PSU filter, but greatly increases the airflow to bottom vents.
Great idea. I plan to do this.
doyll wrote:R5 filter slides out the front anyway, but adding a bottom intake with the 2x front intakes should be all the case fans you need.
Builds I've been involved with usually use a better pressure fan for front intakes to overcome filter and grill resistance.

I have 2 Silverstone AP121 120mm fans laying around. Would this fan be an upgrade over the front intake fan that comes stock with the R5? Shall I replace it and add the 2nd Silverstone to the bottom of the case forward the PSU, or should I acquire two new better intake fans and, if the latter, what spec?

doyll wrote:You might want to consider setting up your case fans to cycle with CPU and GPU fans to supply airflow as need by components. This also means system is dead quiet when it's not working hard.
Another great idea. Can I accomplish this within the bios settings? I have an Asus Z170-A mobo. Sorry for such a rudimentary question!

Thanks

doyll
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:17 am

Re: Help configuring this build with Fractal Define R5 pleas

Post by doyll » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:36 pm

Riotubes wrote:
doyll wrote:If it will be setting on the floor a open center castor base not only makes it much easier to move system to clean PSU filter, but greatly increases the airflow to bottom vents.
Great idea. I plan to do this.
doyll wrote:R5 filter slides out the front anyway, but adding a bottom intake with the 2x front intakes should be all the case fans you need.
Builds I've been involved with usually use a better pressure fan for front intakes to overcome filter and grill resistance.

I have 2 Silverstone AP121 120mm fans laying around. Would this fan be an upgrade over the front intake fan that comes stock with the R5? Shall I replace it and add the 2nd Silverstone to the bottom of the case forward the PSU, or should I acquire two new better intake fans and, if the latter, what spec?

doyll wrote:You might want to consider setting up your case fans to cycle with CPU and GPU fans to supply airflow as need by components. This also means system is dead quiet when it's not working hard.
Another great idea. Can I accomplish this within the bios settings? I have an Asus Z170-A mobo. Sorry for such a rudimentary question!

Thanks
Normally I use 10mm 7 ply solid birch plywood with 30mm double wheel casters on threaded studs into drilled and tapped holes in birch plywood. Sand, prime, fill, prime, sand and paint to match case. Here is what one with 40mm castors looks like on Enthoo Primo
Image

Try the SilverStones. Worst case is you decide to replace them if they don't seem to be enough.

Not sure about Asus, but most mobos have a software package that allows the adjustment of heat to rpm of fans in bios from windows. Once everything is set the software can be turned off .. or even removed.

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