Negative case pressure and mechanical failures
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Negative case pressure and mechanical failures
I'm posting this here because there isn't a forum about airflow per se. This doesn't deal so much with cases as much as with the way cases are set up for positive or negative pressure, and the effects negative pressure might cause with regard to dust and moving parts. I've sworn that my next system will have positive pressure to minimize such problems, but I think a reality check is in order.
Depending upon the details of the mechanical parts, cases, and pressures, negative pressure situations can cause unfiltered air to be sucked in through the smallest openings, including the front of optical, floppy, and tape drives, leaving a dust coat on the interior of the devices.
For optical drives, dust on the optics can degrade performance, but is typically corrected by using a commercial CD cleaner to clean the optics. But there are also a few mechanical parts that are inaccessible from the front, and I wonder how dust might affect them. Here is an example of ingestion.
The top drive is a generic DVD-ROM (which works fine without cleaning - so far); the bottom drive is a new Lite-on CD-RW, my third, the other two having failed, possibly from dust ingestion. My current case has negative pressure. While some optical drives have gasket seals, Lite-ons and many others do not, so this is a common problem.
As far as I know, disk drives are well sealed, so dust should not be an issue.
Floppies obviously have a gaping exposure to dust intake, as do tape drives (not common in desktop systems, but I have one).
That pretty much leaves fans as the remaining item with moving parts, and I've seen nothing about dust accumulations affecting fans.
I get 193 search hits in SPCR forums on "dust", and I'm sure that most of them are like the ones I've read over the months here, just mentioning dust in passing as something obviously to be avoided.
Has anyone plausible notions or personal experience with ingested dust causing mechanical problems?
Specific relevant links are
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=7630 (search for Yamaha on the page) which documents dust ingestion in optical drives.
and this post in a CD forum.
There have been some comments elsewhere that even with positive pressure, airflow will deposit dust. True, if the air carries dust, but a positive pressure case with filtered intakes and a dust-free interior should deposit little or no dust. Or have others had different experiences?
Depending upon the details of the mechanical parts, cases, and pressures, negative pressure situations can cause unfiltered air to be sucked in through the smallest openings, including the front of optical, floppy, and tape drives, leaving a dust coat on the interior of the devices.
For optical drives, dust on the optics can degrade performance, but is typically corrected by using a commercial CD cleaner to clean the optics. But there are also a few mechanical parts that are inaccessible from the front, and I wonder how dust might affect them. Here is an example of ingestion.
The top drive is a generic DVD-ROM (which works fine without cleaning - so far); the bottom drive is a new Lite-on CD-RW, my third, the other two having failed, possibly from dust ingestion. My current case has negative pressure. While some optical drives have gasket seals, Lite-ons and many others do not, so this is a common problem.
As far as I know, disk drives are well sealed, so dust should not be an issue.
Floppies obviously have a gaping exposure to dust intake, as do tape drives (not common in desktop systems, but I have one).
That pretty much leaves fans as the remaining item with moving parts, and I've seen nothing about dust accumulations affecting fans.
I get 193 search hits in SPCR forums on "dust", and I'm sure that most of them are like the ones I've read over the months here, just mentioning dust in passing as something obviously to be avoided.
Has anyone plausible notions or personal experience with ingested dust causing mechanical problems?
Specific relevant links are
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=7630 (search for Yamaha on the page) which documents dust ingestion in optical drives.
and this post in a CD forum.
There have been some comments elsewhere that even with positive pressure, airflow will deposit dust. True, if the air carries dust, but a positive pressure case with filtered intakes and a dust-free interior should deposit little or no dust. Or have others had different experiences?
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Well I believe you about the negative pressure and dust effects. Lately I have been building negative pressure setups, but I have been very careful about sealing off the optical and floppy drives....as well as the card slot input ports. If you are careful, you can seal those devices fairly well.
I got a roll of 1/16" wide felt. It's really thin stuff, with a sticky back. I was able to seal off the drawer door on my one dvd-r drive that was not sealed. It was tricky, but the end result is an optical drive that doesn't suck in dust.
I also seal around all the ports on the rear of the case, and put dummy plugs in the modem, LAN, and USB ports not in use. Dust sucks....
I got a roll of 1/16" wide felt. It's really thin stuff, with a sticky back. I was able to seal off the drawer door on my one dvd-r drive that was not sealed. It was tricky, but the end result is an optical drive that doesn't suck in dust.
I also seal around all the ports on the rear of the case, and put dummy plugs in the modem, LAN, and USB ports not in use. Dust sucks....
I agree.Trip wrote:Seems like a lot of work...
I have been promoting positive air pressure for years, and use it on my current quiet PC.
Just seems a lot easier to clean one filter than to clean all the drives, fans, and other components.
As for performance decrease, I don't know, but I have noticed that you start getting a burning smell when the computer is full of dust.
Before I start, let's make sure my terminology is correct. Positive pressure is when more air is being pushed into the case than is being expelled?Riffer wrote: I have been promoting positive air pressure for years, and use it on my
The idea that creating a positive pressure setup to control dust intake is a great one, but it seems like hardly any cases are geared for this. They typically have room for a power supply, one intake and one exhaust fan. The power supply also exhausts air, so you've got two fans exhausting and one fan bringing air in. Does this not create a negative pressure situation?
1. Yes on the definition of positive air pressure.mrk22 wrote:Before I start, let's make sure my terminology is correct. Positive pressure is when more air is being pushed into the case than is being expelled?Riffer wrote: I have been promoting positive air pressure for years, and use it on my
The idea that creating a positive pressure setup to control dust intake is a great one, but it seems like hardly any cases are geared for this. They typically have room for a power supply, one intake and one exhaust fan. The power supply also exhausts air, so you've got two fans exhausting and one fan bringing air in. Does this not create a negative pressure situation?
2. You have to pick the right case.
Even if you don't - the only rule is that the Intake fans are more powerful than the exausts. (And of course the intakes must be filtered - which I guess is a second rule).
For example, my setup has 2x92mm L1A's for intake, and 1x80mm on the PSU for exaust. Pleanty of positive air pressure, even when the fans are under-volted.
You must account for a significant airflow loss due to the filters - I use 25% as a general rule.
To answer a question a few posts above - My current setup uses furnace filters. I have used the grey foam ones, but I have found they let in a fine dust. Not much, but still has to be cleaned more often. You can buy filters for 60mm fans, but sometimes they are hard to mount. Getting a case that just has screw holes, without any special fan mounting systems is always the best.
Mine has screw holes, but very little room for fan, the optical drives are directly in front of both on either side...
Say, how do you put these fans through a fan isolator. None of mine, 60mm or 80 seem to fit. This would add a little room as I currently have them resting half way up the isolators.
Invalid Session error is driving me crazy
Say, how do you put these fans through a fan isolator. None of mine, 60mm or 80 seem to fit. This would add a little room as I currently have them resting half way up the isolators.
Invalid Session error is driving me crazy
You can pull them with pliers and they stretch. When you let go they go back to their original shape.Trip wrote:Mine has screw holes, but very little room for fan, the optical drives are directly in front of both on either side...
Say, how do you put these fans through a fan isolator. None of mine, 60mm or 80 seem to fit. This would add a little room as I currently have them resting half way up the isolators.
Invalid Session error is driving me crazy
You need two things : ribless fans and force.Trip wrote:Say, how do you put these fans through a fan isolator. None of mine, 60mm or 80 seem to fit. This would add a little room as I currently have them resting half way up the isolators.
Ribs are the tube that connects the screw hole from one side of the fan to the other. Look for a picture of a 80mm L1A - they're almost always ribless. The YS Techs in your case are ribbed.