Newbie with a newbie rig

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new2spcr
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Newbie with a newbie rig

Post by new2spcr » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:21 am

Hello all,

First, I'd like to thank you all for providing great tips and tricks (not to mention the very inspiring pictures!) on how to get rid of general PC noise.

I stumbled upon this website while googling up reviews about silent gpu-coolers. (the one that came with my geforce 7300gs was very noisy and made intermittent scraping and whining noise and I had to get rid of it the sooner the better!)

So I got rid of the stock gpu-cooler, added a heatpipe solution from Zalman and thought I'd be happy as a clam. But no - now that the worst noise producing culprit was taken care of, I could hear the other noisy components too well. So began my long, and seemingly never ending journey to the optimal, silent, energy efficient PC that I could be proud of!

When I bought my new computer about 1 1/2 years ago, I didn't give a second thought to choose the right fans, the right PSU, the right box etc - I just wanted to have a good and cheap machine that I could buy and forget. I indeed regret I didn't pay more attention to what others advised me; to consider a fan-less gpu, a better cpu cooler, perhaps a better box...

Anyway, for the past couple of weeks I've spent considerable amount of time, energy and money (at least my wallet says so. :-) ) trying to minimize the disturbing noises as much as possible, and here's what I did to remedy the problems so far:

- Mounted the HD into a Nexus double-twin in a 5,25 bay; works like a charm. All vibrations are history and there's very little seeking noise but idle is completely silent. The HD is Samsung 320 gb - very quiet - and pretty cool compared to the Seagate Barracuda 320 gb I previously had in my system. It was very noisy and there was no way to adjust the acoustics. Also, using the Nexus double-twin together with the Barracuda was a bad idea, since the idle temp alone rose to whopping 45-46 degrees C! With Samsung, idle temp is 32 degrees C and airflow temp is 28 C.

But summer hasn't arrived yet so I took the bold step and ordered a Scythe s-flex 120 mm fan that I intend to use for the HD alone.
Unfortunately, I cannot mount the fan in such way the airflow's direction would flow across the HD and to the back where the exhaust fan is, but after studying the case carefully I concluded that the only way to mount the fan is above and parallell to the HD, like a cd-player.
The top/face part of the HD would mainly benefit from the fan but not so much for the circuits on the other/bottom side. But I suspect there will be a certain amount of air turbulence that will find its way to the circuits as well (that's my wish anyway!)

Image


- Swapped the terrible nvidia stock fan with Zalman's excellent passive heatpipe cooler:

Image


- Swapped the stock Intel 2 core cooler with a cheapo (but fairly quiet) Arctic cooling fan:

Image


- Same goes for the system fan, that was pretty silent already but took the chance anyway; the noctua 120 mm fan -

Image


At this stage, the computer was pretty quiet but the PSU was probably one of the worst troublemaker ("PowerMan" 350W). Replaced it with a Corsair 450W, which is much quieter than the old one but I can still hear it sitting about 1 m from the box:

Image


Here's how my box looks (note that I've removed the Seagate's cables as I'm not using it at the moment, as well as the floppy drive's cables, so it should look pretty clean) :

Image

The box itself is a cheapo made by In-win but surprisingly well made with a cpu-wind tunnel, holes on the front/ bottom part and on the side allowing cool air to enter.
The box stands on the floor, on two mousepads to dampen potential vibrations.

What do you guys think? Anything I can improve (or get rid of)?

The most distinct sound I can hear from the machine is the CPU-fan moving air.
I'm taking advantage of the mobo's Q-fan.
Last edited by new2spcr on Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

stromgald
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Post by stromgald » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:10 am

Your idea isn't much different than what the Scythe Kama-Bay cooler does.

If you have 3 empty 5.25 slots, you could always get something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6811999141
I'm not sure about the dampening though. You might have to get rubber grommets if your hard drives vibrate alot.

Oh, if I were you, I'd close up those side vents. Just tape pieces of paper over them. It'll keep noise from the CPU and PSU fans from getting out as easily. It'll warm your CPU up 2-4°C, but I don't think it should get close to the CPU's limits if you have a good thermal interface with the heatsink. Secondly, try using speedfan. ASUS's Q-fan doesn't ramp down all that much. Speedfan does a much better job and gives you more control.

new2spcr
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Post by new2spcr » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:39 am

stromgald wrote:Your idea isn't much different than what the Scythe Kama-Bay cooler does.

If you have 3 empty 5.25 slots, you could always get something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6811999141
I'm not sure about the dampening though. You might have to get rubber grommets if your hard drives vibrate alot.

Oh, if I were you, I'd close up those side vents. Just tape pieces of paper over them. It'll keep noise from the CPU and PSU fans from getting out as easily. It'll warm your CPU up 2-4°C, but I don't think it should get close to the CPU's limits if you have a good thermal interface with the heatsink. Secondly, try using speedfan. ASUS's Q-fan doesn't ramp down all that much. Speedfan does a much better job and gives you more control.

Thanks for the tip.

- HD bays: Hm... I don't think I can make room enough for it to fit. I will experiment with the Scythe fan and report
the result. I'm very curious whether a top-air-flow will cool the HD circuits as well.
Grommets aren't needed since I'm using the Nexus double-twin HD mount.

- Side vents : I never thought of closing up the side vent for the CPU but I just tried it and it feels somewhat quiter already. The whooshing sound is more...dampened.
I think I might experiment with thicker paper. :)
I have two vent sections on the side panel, one for the processor and one for the graphic board (and southbridge). I'm little afraid to close up the vents for the graphic board though. Idling, I have around 50 degrees C on my gpu.

- Speedfan : Yes, Q-fan is little blunt for my taste. Running Linux here, so I have to experiment with lm_sensors.


Thanks again.

stromgald
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Post by stromgald » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:23 pm

new2spcr wrote: I have two vent sections on the side panel, one for the processor and one for the graphic board (and southbridge). I'm little afraid to close up the vents for the graphic board though. Idling, I have around 50 degrees C on my gpu.
Yeah, that can be a problem for passively cooled graphics cards. However, keep in mind that most graphics chips are rated for over 100°C (nVidia specs say 105°C for their newer cards). Not sure about the RAM or other components though.

new2spcr
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Post by new2spcr » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:28 pm

stromgald wrote:
Yeah, that can be a problem for passively cooled graphics cards. However, keep in mind that most graphics chips are rated for over 100°C (nVidia specs say 105°C for their newer cards). Not sure about the RAM or other components though.

The GPU temperature doesn't seem to climb drastically, at least when idling, but the southbridge and northbridge, those were a lot warmer to touch with the vents closed. Also I'm thinking that my graphic card more or less divides the motherboard into two sections, where the upper section benefits from a fair amount of air movement from the fans, but the lower section only has the bottom side vent-holes to resort to. I guess closing the vents could potentially be a bad idea during summer (indoors temps can reach almost 30 degrees C).

new2spcr
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Post by new2spcr » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:22 am

Update:

Installed the 120 mm Scythe fan:

Image

Works wonderful. I fastened the fan with stripes from an old IDE-cable. :-D

Maybe too efficient, the idle temp is 26 degrees C.

Unfortunately, I failed implementing lm_sensors (speedfan for linux).

budoongz
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hi

Post by budoongz » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:45 pm

for me it better to less divides the motherboard into two sections

new2spcr
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Re: hi

Post by new2spcr » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:03 pm

budoongz wrote:for me it better to less divides the motherboard into two sections
Yes, but are there any pci-e graphic boards that are short enough for a good airflow?

new2spcr
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Re: Newbie with a newbie rig

Post by new2spcr » Thu May 07, 2009 12:28 am

Update:

I've followed the good advice and swapped the Arctic cooling fan with a Nexus 92mm case fan - did a weird mod using the same Arctic Cooling HS. :)

Also installed a Zalman fanmate 2 and now CPU fan noise has been greatly reduced! I would guess at least half the noise is gone (Nexus @ 900-1000 rpm vs previous AC @~1500-1600rpm)
CPU temps are more or less same; it seems not much airflow is needed to cool the chip, although the northbridge suffers more from the lower rpm.

Now, the worst offender is the PSU fan when it ramps up after couple of hours of computer usage. The exhaust air from the PSU is lukewarm at best but I suspect the intake air temperature is hovering around +30 degrees C (which, according to spcr review, seems to be the threshold where the fan speed will ramp up).

I am considering to build a ghetto duct with a (Corsair!) carton box that allows reasonably cool air to be sucked up by the PSU fan, but I wonder if the very slim clearance between the bottom oriented PSU intake fan and the duct itself will potentially produce more noise due to turbulence or obstruction?
The clearance would be less than 1 cm...
Also, the "fresh" air I intend to use will come from the system fan cooling the harddrive in the 5.25 bay area. It's pushing the air in a top-to-bottom direction so there's no actual push-pull effect with this solution.
And the snake-pit cables from PSU will have to be inside the duct which in turn will add to any existing obstruction.

Would this be a bad idea? My drive doesn't get that warm anyways so I figured the air temperature from the fan+harddrive is little less than 30 C.

I don't have any ventilation holes anywhere but near the bottom of the case...

Any ideas?

Thanks.

new2spcr
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Re: Newbie with a newbie rig

Post by new2spcr » Thu May 07, 2009 11:01 am

Update:

Ok, so I made an air duct and installed it as shown here:

Image

Another pic:

Image

Temp measured at PSU exhaust fan/grill area with a simple thermometer reveals ~ 36-37 degrees C.
Noise - no detectable difference compared with no duct, but it's hard to tell.
PSU itself was slightly warm to touch.

Removed the air duct and PSU exhaust temp dropped to 32 degrees C. PSU is cool to touch.
It seems the luke warm air from the harddrive fan doesn't improve the temps at all.
Moreover, the CPU /heatsink orientation directly below the PSU obviously helps delivering cool air to it.
The CPU heatsink is cool to touch and the air that are pushed from its fins are mere 28 or so degrees C (also roughly measured with a simple thermometer).

Probably a longshot but I might try cutting up the air duct where it meets the CPU heatsink and see what happens.
Perhaps when the case's ambient air increases, this might isolate the PSU from pulling hot air from it and instead gets cool air from the CPU...

stromgald
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Post by stromgald » Thu May 07, 2009 12:00 pm

I think the duct basically blocked most of the airflow to the PSU, that's why it became hot to the touch. I'd recommend looking into increasing the airflow in the case. Maybe speed up the intake/exhaust fans? I'm not sure if there's a simple solution for getting cooler air to the PSU.

new2spcr
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Post by new2spcr » Thu May 07, 2009 10:47 pm

stromgald wrote:I think the duct basically blocked most of the airflow to the PSU, that's why it became hot to the touch. I'd recommend looking into increasing the airflow in the case. Maybe speed up the intake/exhaust fans? I'm not sure if there's a simple solution for getting cooler air to the PSU.
Yeah, my inital predictions were totally off. :)
The almost nonexistent breeze from the HD fan didn't help much.

I've made an opening in the duct so the PSU now gets cool air from the CPU fan/HS while the other end of the duct still envelopes the PSU's snake pit nicely. Improved path for the air.
I also followed the advice on improving the air intake by removing the fan grills where the system exhaust fan is, and removed the "dust filter" at the front/bottom part of the case. The side vents were also opened.
While the hum from the cpu fan is somewhat more noticable due to the vents now being open, I find it's better than having the case temps increase which in turn will ramp up the PSU fan... I find the VX450's thermal sensor is way too sensitive.
It seems I will have to give up the idea of installing sound insulating material inside the case...

The PSU's exhaust temp now hovers around 28-30 C (the final test was done in the late evening, when ambient temps in my flat were little lower) and I _think_ the computer is quiter now. Or might it be the placebo effect? 8)

The system fan spins slower, around 50-100 rpm less which I take as evidence that airflow has improved. Thanks for the tip.

Olle P
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Post by Olle P » Fri May 08, 2009 6:21 am

Another, more intrusive, option for cooling the PSU is to mount it upside-down, with air drawn through a hole in the roof.
The PSU as such should be quieter that way, but it's also likely that you'll hear more of the noise.

Cheers
Olle

new2spcr
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Post by new2spcr » Fri May 08, 2009 2:47 pm

Olle P wrote:Another, more intrusive, option for cooling the PSU is to mount it upside-down, with air drawn through a hole in the roof.
The PSU as such should be quieter that way, but it's also likely that you'll hear more of the noise.

Cheers
Olle
Lol, my wife would probably think I've gone crazy if she caught me cutting a hole!

I've done some further adjustments that I think improved the situation somewhat;

1) Using U.L.N.A (don't know why they have to call it ulna. Isn't there a bone called ulna?) with the Noctua case fan - rpm is now ~600. Not so much increasing temps penalty by decreasing the fan speed with 100 rpm.

2) Wedged stripes from a mousepad between the case and PSU to minimize vibrations, if any. The PSU has no direct metal-to-metal contact with the case.

3) Turned off the HD fan, at least for now.

There is still a pretty low whoooosh sound from the fans moving air, but that's almost about it - I don't believe my computer has ever been this quiet before!
SPCR standards? Probably not. But I'm quite happy at the moment. :)

new2spcr
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Antec P182

Post by new2spcr » Tue May 12, 2009 11:22 pm

So... I told myself not to spend more money on PC silencing until Christmas but here we go again:

The Antec P182!

The beast is huge and heavy. It looks and feels like a full tower to me.
Installation was fun and awesome. Enjoyed every minute of it.

The almost finished result... very clean and tidy.

Image



It was very tricky to close the backplate, but thankfully, I experienced no bulging problems.

Image

My VX450 PSU is very sensitive to temperature increases, so I installed the harddrive in the upper compartment.

Temps: Ambient room temps: around 25 degrees C. Removed all TriCool fans and using one Noctua 120 mm case fan only. Top ventilation holes are covered with some sponge. Intake holes around the PSU are covered with scotch tape. CPU fan is Nexus 92mm w/fanmate @ 1100 rpm.

Result: a general temperature increase everywhere.

The Orthos CPU/RAM blend stress test (45 minutes) heats up the dual cores pretty good: 57-58 C, compared to +- 50 degrees in my old box.
Idle CPU temps: 45-47 degrees.
GPU idle is 54-55 C, my old box didn't allow idle GPU temps go over 51-52 C.
HD temp: 32-33 C.
These temps, once increased, don't go down even after 1 hour idling.

The Noctua case fan doesn't move much air, judging by placing my hand near its exhaust path in the back - might the flow become severely restricted by the honeycomb style fan grills? I thought the honeycomb style was supposed to restrict less than other types of grilles. The Noctua fan definitely pushed more air in my old box with or without the _non_-honeycomb fan grills... weird.
It would be nice to have non-destructive/removable fan grills. :)

It seems the out-of-the-box cooling performance is lot worse than my old box, this one:

Image

Removing the filters or opening the front panel door don't remedy the problem either.

I've noticed that the pci steel covers/protectors have vent holes in them. I may try covering those up as well.

Noise - cpu fan sounds more dampened but I think the Noctua fan creates some turbulence due to the fan grills. Stepping closer to the box, the noise gets pretty severe.
PSU is pretty silent (I think...difficult to draw any conclusions at this point though)
HD: couldn't use the Nexus Doubletwin in Antec but it's almost as quiet as before.

Sofa test - with my old rig, I could hear the PC:s various fans pretty good when I sat on the sofa 5 meters away. Now, I can still hear the fans and a hum (from the harddrives or PSU?) but it's less obvious than before.

What is SPCR standards when it comes to computer and fans - you suppose to hear them 5 meters away? The reviews often state the "X fan is silent 1 meter away"...I think I have good and quiet components and a good case with great potentials but it seems I cannot get rid of the fan noise, or at least cease hearing them even 5 meters away?

So, all in all, I had high expectations with the P182 but perhaps I expected too much.

A nitpick - tricool fan connector/voltage regulator mounted on the upper compartment is not sturdy. When I carefully removed the fan connectors, one of the plastic "legs" holding the connector in place broke. I only gave it a very slight bend.

Another one - the plastic covering floppy bay is impossible to remove. Anyone knows how to do that?

new2spcr
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Re: Antec P182

Post by new2spcr » Fri May 15, 2009 9:42 am

Poor man's dampening:

Taking advantage of two mousepads:

Image


Inside the Antec, the Samsung Spinpoint is a quiet drive - I can't hear its seek/write noise at all, but it has a high pitched spinning(?) noise that I didn't notice until I swapped out all noisy fans. It actually affected me so bad that I suffered from a ringing/high pitched sound inside my head that would go on for hours after I shut down the computer. When I lay my head on the pillow, I would still hear that "ring-ting-ring-ping-ping-weeeeeh" noise...
A thick rubber pad mounted on the HDD bay's roof might be the solution:

Image


What to do with a piece of leftover mousepad?
Why not put it on the roof directly above the PSU?

Image

Probably a longshot, but I think the resonance inside the (huge) case gets worse if you have too little stuff in your computer. Perhaps I'm wrong but I filled up an empty 5,25 bay with an old cdrom that I don't intend to use.

I think the computer's noise pattern now is somewhat nicer to listen to than before.

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