My Proposed Silent PC Set-Up: Looking For Expert Opinions.

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:38 am

I was going to get one of those controllers, but I was told they are inferior and a waste of money when compared with the software alternative, so I didn't get one in the end.

When I put my PC on just now, my fan was running at 900rpm and noticeably quieter than yesterday, but I could still hear it clearly from where I sit. It's now 948rpm and sounds about the same. I have no idea why it isn't 1000rpm as I haven't done anything that should change it - and it appears to be altering its speed anyway.

I keep searching for information on Google regarding fan control with my motherboard and all I keep finding is information about how good the Asus fan control program is, plus how good SpeedFan is. Well, mine doesn't do a single thing, so it's currently falling massively short of expectations.

EDIT UPDATE: Three minutes later and fan is now 959rpm and noticeably louder.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:43 am

At this stage it might be worthwhile trying to get a Fanmate if you can. Otherwise, if you like soldering you can insert some diodes on one of the fan leads to lower the voltage.

wharrad · Post by **wharrad** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:38 am

Just to let you know, I've never managed to get the CPU fan to slow with speedfan on my P5Q motherboard.. But the case fans do change perfectly.

I understand that the BIOs will control it though - and so does the Asus software. But I prefer more control with speedfan.

Anyway, here's my solution...

Disable all the speed adjustments in the BIOs (called Q-Speed or something).

Connect the CPU fan to the case fan header on the motherboard.

Tell speedfan to automatically adjust the case fan in relation to the core temp (I go for a target of 55c on my cores personally, which seems to be the point where the computer's 'silent' under normal usage).

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:03 am

Thanks for your replies

I'm hoping to get this working without any soldering, but if I have to I'll get a controller.

I have got the fan plugged into the CHA_FAN1 header at the moment. I tried disabling the Q-Fan in the BIOS and tried SpeedFan and AI Suite, but it just remained at 1000rpm.

I couldn't get SpeedFan to do anything when I tried. I'll have another go though. Core temperatures are showing as 53C at the moment.

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:09 pm

UPDATE: I've given up trying to control the fan via SpeedFan or Asus AI Suite and have just ordered a Zalman FanMate 2 instead. I have tried the suggestions, but with no luck.

I hope the FanMate works because this fan is really irritating me. I've currently got a non-silent PC, despite all my efforts!

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:18 pm

Are you certain that it's just the fan making all the noise? What configuration did you end up with? Maybe you could post a photo of your PC.

40974111 · Post by **40974111** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:52 am

Just checking something. Did you end up getting a case? Is there much of a fan grill causing impedance - as this can add to the experienced sound. There also seems to be a big difference in perceptible noise between 1000rpm and 800rpm, and a bit of a difference between 800rpm and 600rpm. So, hopefully it does all fix up with a fan controller! You will most likely still hear the fans, but so long as it is a nice quiet smooth sound it isn't too hard to shut out.

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:41 am

p5q mobo + asus suite + speedfan = hot mess.

Here's how I get mine working how I want it to.

Disable chassi fan control in BIOS.
Boot the computer.
Add asus suite to startup list (Start -> program files -> startup)
Add speedfan right below asus suite on that list.
Configure speed fan how you want it.
Reboot.

For some reason, I could never get speedfan to do anything unless I opened asus suite first (it can be left open or closed out). once u have opened that program, speedfan works fine. But untill you do so, it will do nothing.

Don't ask me why..I think its a compatability issue and opening the program allows speedfan to take over the headers. Try it out before u open those fanmates...I think u might be pleasantly surprised.....

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:10 am

Thanks for the latest replies everyone. I have an update to report, but first to answer your questions:

Alleycat, yes it was definitely the fan. I have taken some photographs of my PC, so I'll post those shortly.

My configuration is the Antec Solo case, Asus P5Q-EM motherboard, E5200 CPU, Scythe Ninja 2 heatsink, 4GB G.Skill 1066MHz RAM, Nexus Value 430w PSU. The SY1225SL12M fan that came with the Ninja 2 is flexibly-mounted in the rear case fan position, on the chassis fan header and was turning at 1000rpm.

I have two WD 1TB Caviar Green hard drives and one Samsung 500GB EcoGreen in the Solo case's flexible elastic mountings.

40974111, yes I got the Antec Solo case and the rear case fan stamped grille will be causing some impedance. I did notice that the sound was noticeably lower when the PC started up, at which point the fan turned at 850-900rpm, before gradually rising to 1000rpm.

RoGuE, that's an interesting discovery. I never would have thought of trying that method to get it working. Unfortunately my FanMate arrived earlier and it's up and running now, so I'm currently using that and watching the temperatures.

UPDATE:

So, as mentioned, I have got my FanMate installed and it is turned right down to minimum, which is currently turning at 563rpm, but has been turning between that and 600rpm since installation.

The temperatures in SpeedFan are now showing as follows:

System 45C (This was averaging 40C with 1000rpm fan)
CPU 32C (Was 28-30C with 1000rpm fan)
AUX 16C (This has gone down from 20C for some reason)
HD0 27C (Samsung EcoGreen? Was 25C with 1000rpm fan)
HD1 33C (WD Caviar Green? Effectively same temperature as before)
HD2 33C (WD Caviar Green? Effectively same temperature as before)
Core 0 53C (Same as before)
Core 1 53C (Same as before)

With the case fan set at up to 600rpm I can still hear it clearly from anywhere in the room (up to 12' away), but it is quieter than before. With my head next to base unit under my desk it has a moving-air sound, but above my desk the sound is like a high-frequency clicking, almost identical to the sound of a VHS video recorder when it is recording! Maybe this is the fan bearings.

There is no other noise at all during operation. The PSU appears silent, with virtually no detectable air movement out of its rear grille. The hard drives are also effectively silent, with only an occasional virtually-muted search sound.

One thing I noticed was that the hard drive temperatures differ right from start-up with cold hard drives, so I thought that was strange. HD0 is always that much cooler than HD1 and HD2.

The distant aeroplane noise that I had with the fan turning at 1000rpm has now gone.

Things seem to vary a bit. I have just checked and the fan is now turning at 548rpm and the 'System' temperature is now 46C. Is the 'System' temperature likely to be the northbridge chip? Am I okay with the temperatures I have posted? I have no idea what actually constitutes an excessive temperature!

Thanks very much,

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:10 pm

Square Wave wrote:One thing I noticed was that the hard drive temperatures differ right from start-up with cold hard drives, so I thought that was strange. HD0 is always that much cooler than HD1 and HD2.

HD0 = samsung
HD1,2 = WD

that answer your question? Different manufactures put their thermistors in different places. WD's could just be closer to the motor for example..you never know. All that's important is that they are below 50C. and they are all in the perfect temp range.

I actually have a samsung drive as well and it always lists 2-3C lower temps than my WD. It's just where they put their sensor.

As for ur system temp..I like my system running below 40C... I like to keep things cool for my overclock. (helps me sleep better at night I guess)

Will it make a diffenence in the long term? probably not...

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 pm

Yes, that's what I presumed regarding the identities.

Thanks for the clarification on the temperature question also.

When I turned my PC back on just now the fan was spinning at 385rpm. At the moment it is 428rpm, all from the minimum setting on the FanMate. I thought the FanMate would allow a set speed. It's really quiet now, so I'm not complaining about that - in fact I can only just hear it from where I am sitting.

I wonder why the speed still seems variable, despite having disabled the Q-Fan in BIOS and used this FanMate. Could it be something to do with the FanMate producing its own heat and the resistance changing as a result of that? I ran it out the back of my case and it is sitting behind my PC so that I can make any required adjustments without taking the side panel off - and also to prevent it from contributing any heat to the inside of the case.

Update: Fan is now spinning at 449rpm, so has risen as I have been typing this. System temperature 42C at the moment, but it didn't go past 46C earlier on. Is this the northbridge by any chance? Maybe I could add a different heatsink to it.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:01 pm

I can't explain why the fan speed is changing like that. With all automatic fan controls switched off, it should be stable. As for the clicking noise, I think you've got a defective fan. There should be no mechanical noise whatsoever. I had one of those fans and it ran quietly for about a month and then developed a feint scraping sound, so I returned it. Apparently several other people in these forums have had the same problem, which is said to be caused by inadequate lubricating oil in the bearings. I don't think I will buy Scythe fans in future, and will instead stick with Nexus which are both cheaper and have proven more reliable for me.

I assume the temperatures you've posted are at idle, and that you're using Speedfan to monitor these. If the "system temperature" is the northbridge then 46 is nothing to worry about. I would call that cool. However, CPU temps seem high, and should be around 40 at idle. I have had trouble getting accurate CPU temps using Speedfan. I recommend RealTemp instead.

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:24 pm

It's currently at 586rpm. The speed was going up and down slightly earlier on, but the trend is always upwards, stopping at 600rpm!

That's interesting to hear about Scythe fan problems. I hadn't heard anything along those lines before. The fan I have got came out on top in the fan review on here. It's not loud as such, but I can hear it, so it's not actually silent. I can hear it from the other side of the room, admittedly very faintly, but I was expecting imperceptible noise from about three feet away. As mentioned, the sound is exactly the same as a VHS video recorder when it is recording - although quieter!

The temperatures I posted are at idle and during use. They don't change at all during use. I have SpeedFan installed and check it every so often. Currently, after just over four hours' use, the temperatures are:

System 45C
CPU 33C
AUX 17C
HD0 27C
HD1 33C
HD2 33C
Core 0 53C
Core 1 53C

The CPU temperature is only 33C, so well below 40C. It was 32C earlier today and 28-30C with the fan at 1000rpm. The core temperatures of 53C have never shown anything different. They have been 53C from the moment of start-up and show that regardless of what else changes.

I'll have a look at RealTemp, thanks.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:52 pm

The fan at those speeds should be effectively silent, even from a foot away. When I had problems with my fan, I felt similar to you - it wasn't loud, but just kind of annoying being aware of it. That's not what I paid for! Being a bit of a pedant, I drove 40km to get it replaced. Even though the new one worked fine, I ended up swapping with a friend for a Nexus.

If you search around the fan forum you'll find that someone has used oil to lubricate the bearings. However I don't know how to do this or whether it's a good idea.

My fan speeds are only changing by about +/- 2 RPM. I don't think your speed changes have anything to do with the Fanmate. Sorry to doubt you, but are you sure Speedfan is switched off? One other way to check your fan speeds is to see what the BIOS reports, and check for fluctuations there. Anyway, 600RPM is quite ok.

I don't know what those "core" temperatures are then. Obviously not the CPU cores. Check it with RealTemp, and try a stress test to make sure that everything's working ok.

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:04 pm

Sounds as if my fan is faulty then! That's rather typical because there is almost always something wrong with nearly everything I ever buy, which leads me to believe that either 90% of everything ever manufactuered is substandard or that some higher force is orchestrating everything specifically to annoy me throughout my life.

I'll have a look into lubricating the fan, but I may end up trying another one, which I fully expect will be faulty when it arrives too.

My SpeedFan isn't switched off in that I open it to check temperatures etc. It never had any control over the fans before, so I'm sure it isn't doing anything now. I'll have a look in BIOS and see what it says. Incidentally the fan is currently down to 570rpm!

I thought the core temperature readings related to the CPU cores as well. I'm not sure how that relates to the specific 'CPU' temperature given in SpeedFan, but that is currently 45C, whilst Core 0 and Core 1 are 53C as usual!

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:31 pm

I've had plenty of problems with substandard stuff, so it's not just you. I'm constantly whinging to my girlfriend about it. In fact I try not to buy much stuff these days because I know that I'm almost guaranteed to be disappointed.

If you get another fan, get a Nexus, as they seem to be consistently better quality, and have a much longer track record. Also, they are a better price than other "quiet" fans. You will however be faced with a dilemma, as Nexus now also sells a PWM version of its fan, which you would be able to use under automatic control on the CPU fan header, in which case you would no longer use the Fanmate. Whether the automatic control would actually work the way you want it to - well, who knows? Their normal "Real Silent" case fan in conjunction with the Fanmate will certainly do the job though.

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:00 pm

I'll have a look at those Nexus fans. My PSU is a Nexus Value 430w and I haven't heard a sound out of that, so I'd be happy to try one of their case fans.

I'm going to see how this Scythe one performs for a while yet, before I decide whether to try oiling it. I'm annoyed because this particular fan came top of the quiet fan test on here, so I thought it would be perfect.

Regarding the Core temperature reading in SpeedFan, apparently that does refer to the CPU cores, but I'm not sure mine are actually being reported at all. I looked in the configuration settings for SpeedFan, which show Core 0 and Core 1 as Intel Core, so it must be recognizing my CPU.

CPU, System and Aux are attributed to Winbond W83627DHG, as is the fan speed shown in the Fan section. I'm not really sure what is and isn't working in this SpeedFan. It gives me the impression that it is working, but then at the same time I couldn't get it to do much!

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:30 pm

Speedfan gives me all kinds of wacky values. It's telling me now that Core0 and Core1 are both a steady 35, which I know they are not. Just because they are labelled INTEL CORE, doesn't really mean anything. Also, as you will find out when you get RealTemp, the actual core temperatures will fluctuate as you do stuff with your computer. It's also got temperatures like -1 and -55, and says my 12V line is 1.47V etc. I've always had problems with it on other computers also.

I bought my Scythe fan on the basis of the reviews here, but I've realised that sometimes these rankings are actually just splitting hairs. As I said in some other thread, it's not as if I live in an anechoic chamber, so some of these results are inconsequential in real world use. One product can be better than another for various practical reasons unrelated to sheer "performance".

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:37 pm

speedfan takes some finesse..

as for your fan rpm fluctuations a quick glance on newegg will tell you that the rpm of the fan is 800 (or 1200 whatver one u got) +- 10%. That means, that if you bought a 1200 rpm fan, at any given rpm, the fan may spin 120 rpm above or below the "nominal" rpm for any particular voltage.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that your fanmates are potentiometers (pots for short). When you turn the dial, you lengthen/shorten the effective resistor in the unit. This lets you vary the output voltage, with a side effect of being a crude voltage regulator. Say the fanmate has its own tolerance of +- 10%. Now your talking a potential fluctuation of 20% or 200+ rpm easily.

my whole point is, do not be alarmed by fan speed fluctuations below 200rpm. They are a inevitable. This is one reason I like my mobo controlling the fans...mother board headers are much more consistent than pots.

Hope this answered your question.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:31 pm

I've been using the same Fanmate for 5 years in different PCs, and my fan speed stays pretty constant.

ddrj · Post by **ddrj** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:15 am

Square Wave wrote:Hello

I have just registered on the forum, but I have been visiting the Silent PC Review site for a long time, reading the articles and tests.

I am at the stage of buying the components for building my (hopefully) silent PC and would just like to check if all is well with my choices and expectations.

The PC will be for general use (internet etc) and for photograph editing. I won't be using it for games.

The basis is as follows:

Motherboard: Asus P5Q SE2
CPU: Intel E5200
RAM: Buffalo Firestix PC2 8500 (4GB)

And as a result of reading everything on the Silent PC Review site I would like to use the following:

Power Supply: Nexus Value 430w PSU
Graphics Card: Asus EN9400GT Silent
CPU Heatsink: Xigmatek HDT-S1283
Heatsink Fan: Scythe SY1225SL12M (if required)

I want to put all this on a Top Deck Tech Station 'case', so there won't be the heat build-up difficulties of an enclosed case, but I presume instead a potential noise problem of not being in an enclosed case! I would want to run all this without the Top Deck's included fan.

I'm hoping to get away with no fan fitted to the Xigmatek heatsink, so I would be interested to know if that is a realistic expectation for my set-up, taking into account my intended use. If not, I'll get the above-mentioned Scythe Fan to go with it in place of the standard fan. I was wondering about getting a Scythe Orochi heatsink, but I was put off by the reported fitting difficulties.

Originally I was looking at the Silverstone Nightjar ST45NF fanless PSU, but read that a quiet fan-cooled PSU might be a better choice, considering that the better ones are effectively silent. If my chosen CPU and heatsink could run without a fan I may consider the Silverstone PSU, if it is a realistic choice for not overheating with my set-up. Any comments on this point would be gratefully received.

I'm considering a OCZ Vertex SSD for my operating system, but at the moment I'll use an old IDE drive to get up and running. My two data storage drives (which I already have) are 1TB WD Caviar Greens, which I was pleased to read are quiet drives.

Any comments or opinions on my plans and choices would be gratefully received.

Thanks very much

Hey Square Wave, I hope you haven't bought the items yet. Especially that motherboard. I have that motherboard coupled with an E8400 and I have to say that I really hate it because of ONE thing. It's just a pet peeve of mine and might not be all that important but here it is:

The location of the 24 pin connector for your PSU on the mobo is in the worst possible position. Most motherboards have it towards the right side past the ram slots, but this one has it smack dab in the middle near the IO ports.

It's not the cable management due to this that bothers me, but rather on my setup, I ended up having to change the orientation of my CPU heatsink just to accomdate the psu wire.

Good luck (there are much better boards for the same price maybe lower). Also get a different psu (perhaps the enermax modu82+ but i would recommend a corsair 520hx).

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:52 am

Thanks for the latest replies.

I won't worry too much about the fan speed variations then. It's 596rpm at the moment, but won't be next time I look!

I can appreciate the point made about differences in fans (and other items) possibly being inconsequential in everyday use, but if starting from scratch then you may as well get the one that comes top of the test. In my case though, that fan came with my Ninja 2 anyway, so I was pleased at the time.

I read on here somewhere (in the test I think) that my fan undervolts beautifully (or words to that effect), so I didn't have any concerns about slowing it right down.

Ddrj, I ended up getting the Asus P5Q-EM in the end, after others made the same observation. Also I went for onboard graphics rather than the Asus graphics card. I got the Nexus PSU due to its high review rating on the Silent PC Review site!

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:37 am

Square Wave wrote:
I wonder why the speed still seems variable, despite having disabled the Q-Fan in BIOS and used this FanMate.

I have the same "problem" with the Fanmate. I have two fanmates connected to my system fan and cpu fan and I often experience variations in rpm for both fans, around 20-30 rpm Id guess.

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:43 am

RoGuE wrote:speedfan takes some finesse..

as for your fan rpm fluctuations a quick glance on newegg will tell you that the rpm of the fan is 800 (or 1200 whatver one u got) +- 10%. That means, that if you bought a 1200 rpm fan, at any given rpm, the fan may spin 120 rpm above or below the "nominal" rpm for any particular voltage.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that your fanmates are potentiometers (pots for short). When you turn the dial, you lengthen/shorten the effective resistor in the unit. This lets you vary the output voltage, with a side effect of being a crude voltage regulator. Say the fanmate has its own tolerance of +- 10%. Now your talking a potential fluctuation of 20% or 200+ rpm easily.

my whole point is, do not be alarmed by fan speed fluctuations below 200rpm. They are a inevitable. This is one reason I like my mobo controlling the fans...mother board headers are much more consistent than pots.

Hope this answered your question.

That explains it. Thanks.

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:02 pm

My fan started at 325rpm when I started up my PC today. It went to 600rpm quite quickly this time, which is where it is at the moment. Sometimes it operates well under 600rpm for the whole time the PC is on.

I downloaded RealTemp and had a look. It does look quite complicated to set up so that it gives accurate temperature readings and the information relating to this was almost overwhelming to take in. When I read as far as having to go into BIOS and alter voltages, it put me off the idea!

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:12 pm

whoa whoa whoa..don't jump to conclusions now! lol

You dont need to go anywhere near the bios to deal with fan speeds (unless you want to use Asus' built in Q-fan control).

A couple things may be wrong with your config. For one, you may have a bad fanmate. For two, you may have a defective motor in your fan. either one of these could cause higher than normal fluctuations in fan RPM.

Another possibility is that nothing is wrong! You are talking about sub-600RPM fan speeds. Most DC fans have a hard time dipping below 40-50% of their specififed max speed, so my question is, what fan are we talking about here? I ask this because if it is, say, a 1400 rpm model, than 600RPM is at the bottom of its threshold and even the tinyest flcutuations in voltage could affect the speed greatly.

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:30 pm

I'm not jumping to conclusions!

On this page here - http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php - in the Calibration section it said this:

You need to set your CPU to default MHz for this test. The front side bus should be set to 266 MHz for 65 nm processors and to 333 MHz for the newer 45 nm processors. Core voltage needs to be set to 1.10 volts as reported by CPU-Z. The CPU multiplier needs to be set to 6.0 at idle or 12.0 for Core i7. You can either enter these values manually into your bios or you can also enable EIST, Enhanced Intel Speed Step, which is designed to drop your CPU close to these values automatically at idle. Not all motherboards properly support EIST so it's best to check using CPU-Z to confirm these values.

. . . . at which point I got put off the idea!

Well, that would be a surprise if I had a defective FanMate as well as a defective fan! (refer to previous comments!)

As mentioned before, the fan is a Scythe SY1225SL12M. As mentioned previously I read in the review that the fan 'undervolts beautifully' (or words to that effect), which I have taken into account with my comments and questions.

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:50 pm

i seeee...

well, I guess that puts me out of ideas as to what is causing such dramatic fan speed fluctuations.

Square Wave · Post by **Square Wave** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:58 pm

I'm not too bothered about the fan speed fluctuations, rather that I was curious to know why it might be doing that.

It would be nice to know the true core temperatures for my CPU, but I was hoping there would be something that I could simply install then start up to show me.

From reading that calibration section in the RealTemp documentation, the set-up instructions do seem to be very hit and miss, which doesn't make much sense to a beginner (me!).

Resiroth · Post by **Resiroth** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:46 pm

Something no one has mentioned yet, but is well known among overclockers, is that the motherboard voltages by default are above what is recommended. I really have no idea why they do this but on a recent build my i7 was peaking 62C load, normally around 58C with clocks @ 2.66ghz. The voltage was actually set higher than default ( reading voltages with OCCT ) for safety I guess. I overclocked it to 3.5ghz and I manually set it to stock voltage which was 1.2V I believe. In software it read 1.19 and I got 58C load with 25% overclock. No change in fan speeds or anything like that either. So, even if you're not interested in changing clockspeeds or anything like that be sure to at least set the voltage to default and not auto on the CPU. If you have the time you can find out the lowest voltage your system is stable at @ stock settings. You could easily shave 5-10C depending on how insane your motherboard's auto voltage setting is.

My Proposed Silent PC Set-Up: Looking For Expert Opinions.

Re: My Proposed Silent PC Set-Up: Looking For Expert Opinion