EXECUTION OF NINJA MURDERER (REV. B) [thread probation]

Moogles · Post by **Moogles** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:35 am

Andaca kinda has a point. They shouldn't have released the Rev. B with this horrible pushpin mounting mechanism. Nobody likes it. It's dodgy. Listing a motherboard as compatible on their website when it isn't (assuming andaca didn't botch the installation) is very bad, too.

I doubt the Ninja directly caused your CPU to die, but repeated installation attempts may have exposed it to ESD. The Ninja is a great cooler, but they need to fix the Rev B's mounting on S775. It's a joke. ;(

BillTodd · Post by **BillTodd** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:50 am

Andaca,

I'm sure you're more than capable of fitting the heat-sink correctly.

Do you think it failed because its fitting didn't contact the CPU correctly (with enough pressure) or because the heat-pipes failed for some reason?

I.e. Was there any sign of damage or bending to the pipes (beyond the normal 90') to the heat-pipes*? (prior to your mod's

)

*For those unfamiliar with heat-pipes: They typically contain water (partly as water vapour) at low pressure. Any leak caused by fractures or bad sealing will stop them working.

[Mod: Actually, I think it is a liquid with a lower boiling point than water -- possibly an alcohol?]

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:53 am

andaca wrote:ba, you are not worth it...

I am not worthy of being told the fans in my pictures look dusty... but only say the word, and I shall buy Thermalright.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:18 am

Greetings,

This thread is on probation -- keep it civil, or it is gone.

Back on topic:

What temperatures were you seeing that you were dissatisfied with? Did you try and address the pressure issue, which is well known for the Rev B Ninja?

BillTodd · Post by **BillTodd** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:39 am

[Mod: Actually, I think it is a liquid with a lower boiling point than water -- possibly an alcohol?]

Unlikely I'd have thought. They may contain a small amount of alcohol to improve the operation of the wick (as a wetting agent), but alcohols generally have poor heat capacity.

Dropping the pressure in the tube to a few PSI is all that's required to reduce the boiling point of water to a suitable point.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:08 am

Why is this train-wreck of a thread in the "General Gallery" section anyway? I'm moving it to the "Consumer Advocacy" forum where it is marginally on topic.

FWIW, had I been around earlier, I would have locked and deleted this abortion of a thread, but if things take a better turn from here on out, will let it run.

flyingsherpa · Post by **flyingsherpa** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:19 am

BillTodd wrote:
[Mod: Actually, I think it is a liquid with a lower boiling point than water -- possibly an alcohol?]
Unlikely I'd have thought. They may contain a small amount of alcohol to improve the operation of the wick (as a wetting agent), but alcohols generally have poor heat capacity.

Dropping the pressure in the tube to a few PSI is all that's required to reduce the boiling point of water to a suitable point.

Ah, but alcohol evaporates so well! I don't know for sure what's in heatpipes, but I do know some avionics have been cooled with alcohol (ethanol). The Russians had one such system and it kept failing because the ground crew was drinking the coolant

! Can't seem to find a link though.

Devonavar · Post by **Devonavar** » Thu May 17, 2007 10:23 am

I Ralf and I disagree then. There's no way this thread meets the standards for Consumer Advocacy.

Ralf, perhaps we should negotiate?

Andaca: Perhaps this could be done in a better way: Would you mind reposting your complain in a calmer, more civil manner? There's nothing I'd like more but to bury this thread, but I think the essence of what you said is worth a post. You just need to say it is a more polite way.

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:56 pm

Moogles wrote:Andaca kinda has a point. They shouldn't have released the Rev. B with this horrible pushpin mounting mechanism. Nobody likes it. It's dodgy. Listing a motherboard as compatible on their website when it isn't (assuming andaca didn't botch the installation) is very bad, too.

I doubt the Ninja directly caused your CPU to die, but repeated installation attempts may have exposed it to ESD. The Ninja is a great cooler, but they need to fix the Rev B's mounting on S775. It's a joke. ;(

OMG listening + agreeing with me? -faints-

-didn't botch the installation- ... just my E6600 T_T

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:01 pm

BillTodd wrote:Andaca,

I'm sure you're more than capable of fitting the heat-sink correctly.

Do you think it failed because its fitting didn't contact the CPU correctly (with enough pressure) or because the heat-pipes failed for some reason?

I.e. Was there any sign of damage or bending to the pipes (beyond the normal 90') to the heat-pipes*? (prior to your mod's )

*For those unfamiliar with heat-pipes: They typically contain water (partly as water vapour) at low pressure. Any leak caused by fractures or bad sealing will stop them working.

[Mod: Actually, I think it is a liquid with a lower boiling point than water -- possibly an alcohol?]

could this be possible?... signs of empathy / trust from another person? -emotional tears-

i don't know exactly why it failed, on paper it looks really good.

Im starting to believe it has something to do with the copper base not making proper contact with the inner heatpipes / rest of the structure

is evident that the screws that hold / attach the base have not been properly tightened AT ALL , they are ridiculously loose and almost feel like decoration-

sorry if im not been clear... maybe some pics would help

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:10 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:Greetings,

This thread is on probation -- keep it civil, or it is gone.

Back on topic:

What temperatures were you seeing that you were dissatisfied with? Did you try and address the pressure issue, which is well known for the Rev B Ninja?

idle temps where 2 high (39 C / 48C in a few minutes)
take into consideration 2 things:

1) room temp was cold as heck

2) no oc at all

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:26 pm

Devonavar wrote:I Ralf and I disagree then. There's no way this thread meets the standards for Consumer Advocacy.

Ralf, perhaps we should negotiate?

Andaca: Perhaps this could be done in a better way: Would you mind reposting your complain in a calmer, more civil manner? There's nothing I'd like more but to bury this thread, but I think the essence of what you said is worth a post. You just need to say it is a more polite way.

fell free to edit my posts furter if you want. I barely know how to speak English, but i understand what your saying, and i try to be polite ( its kinda hard when people call you ignorant / imply you are stupid/idiot /cry baby )

Devonavar · Post by **Devonavar** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:02 pm

There's too many flame posts in the thread already for me to want to salvage it. Please start a new thread if you still want to post about the issue. And, if you're planning to post in Consumer Advocacy, please keep the destruction of the Ninja out of it and limit yourself to describing your problems with the Ninja.

derekchinese · Post by **derekchinese** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:12 pm

andaca, how did the RMA go? Did you tell those F***ers to give you a new processor? Did you make sure that they got an earful?

Andaca, don't get caught up in all of this anger man, just ignore it.

MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR RMA!!!!!!!!

Derek

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:57 am

I find this whole thread amusing....and sad. I think a big problem here is the use of the word "execution" which seems to offend the liberal side of the SPCR members/moderators.

The destruction of the Ninja is sort-of like kicking your motorcycle when it won't start.......or painting lemons on your new car when you have problems. Neither reaction to a problem will fix the problem. It should be quite obvious many people use the Ninja with success......me included. So it follows that if your Ninja is not working as it should, it's either a hardware problem specific to your particular Ninja, or an installation problem of some sort. The fact that a particular board is listed as "compatible" doesn't mean very much. These boards change components frequently.....so it is up to the installer to carefully check for interferences. Push-pin mountings also work......millions of computers are happily running with the things. What was wrong with your setup will never be known now........that's sad.

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:20 am

Andaca, I would probably have done the same to the Ninja if this disaster happened to me (I was aware of this mounting issue and didn't get a Ninja for my E6600 back in Nov 2006). It's possible that you got an even worse Ninja than the usual ones - with respect to Skt 775 mounting. I also believe that SPCR should officially warn potential Ninja buyers about the issue and not just recommend Ninja as the best passive cooler (which it may be with proper mounting). I understand that you are angry, but calling names won't help, IMHO you should cool down and concentrate on getting your C2D replaced.

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:50 am

I have tto agree with Ralf that while the destruction may have had a therapeutic effect in releasing your anger, it certainly didn't help getting either the Ninja or the E6600 RMA'ed. Never psrsonally used either the Ninja or 775, Ican't comment myself, but se3ing all the forum threads, I can definitely see that there is a design flaw with the Rev B's mounting on 775. Perhaps SPCR as a whole can write Scythe and express their dissatisfaction with this flaw?

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:54 am

Blue said it best. It is an amusing thread. Yes, it is a little sad to see ninja mangled like that, however, I chuckled at the way OP took out his anger at the heatsink. Well, it's his money, it's his heatsink he can do whatever he wants with it, even execute it if it makes him feel any better.

In any case, this thread delivers, was fun reading it and seeing all the pictures.

klankymen · Post by **klankymen** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:20 am

Bluefront wrote:I find this whole thread amusing....and sad. I think a big problem here is the use of the word "execution" which seems to offend the liberal side of the SPCR members/moderators.

nice one

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:46 am

Hello,

It certainly looks like the soldering in the base for the second tier of heatpipes was sub-standard. Only the center one on the second tier was adequately soldered, so it might have been down to 8 or 9 heatpipes (out of 12), effectively. A 25-33% reduction of heat transfer will never be a good thing. Couple this with an iffy bracket, and you have excellent grounds for an RMA -- of the Ninja. But, not any more...

Maybe you got a unit that was the result of a Monday morning hangover? This is certainly not the norm for the Ninja, which is still the best HS as far as I'm concerned. They need to make a Rev C with a more effective bracket, and maybe spreading out the heat pipes as they pass through all the fins?

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:50 am

JazzJackRabbit wrote:Blue said it best. It is an amusing thread. Yes, it is a little sad to see ninja mangled like that, however, I chuckled at the way OP took out his anger at the heatsink.

So did I - to be honest, I was a bit surprised at some of the sanctimonious and humourless responses, which were what derailed the thread IMO. It's only a lump of copper and aluminium for god's sake, you'd think the OP had defiled some sort of holy icon by some of the reactions (although the Ninja does seem to be an irreproachable object of worship in some quarters). Maybe if someone from Scythe is reading, it might even help encourage them to do something about that horrible mounting bracket.

Anyway, at least he didn't shoot it, like Elvis Presley did with his De Tomaso Pantera...

klankymen · Post by **klankymen** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:21 pm

nick705 wrote:
JazzJackRabbit wrote:Blue said it best. It is an amusing thread. Yes, it is a little sad to see ninja mangled like that, however, I chuckled at the way OP took out his anger at the heatsink.
So did I - to be honest, I was a bit surprised at some of the sanctimonious and humourless responses, which were what derailed the thread IMO. It's only a lump of copper and aluminium for god's sake, you'd think the OP had defiled some sort of holy icon by some of the reactions (although the Ninja does seem to be an irreproachable object of worship in some quarters). Maybe if someone from Scythe is reading, it might even help encourage them to do something about that horrible mounting bracket.

Anyway, at least he didn't shoot it, like Elvis Presley did with his De Tomaso Pantera...

Yeah I agree with you... although the action in it self served no purpose I was amused by it, and annoyed by how squareish and condescending the entire first page responded to it.

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Fri May 18, 2007 2:57 pm

in no particular order

SLOTh

LuckyNV

Moogles

BillTodd

nick705

NeilBlanchard

klankymen

flyingsherpa

JazzJackRabbit

Chris Chan

Tzupy

derekchinese!

and more

THANK YOU... A LOT

not because you are finding this sad / funny / agree / disagree.
thanks for all the useful input ,everyone. free of patronizing language and tone of condescension...

oh and also 2 Ralf Hutter for not erasing this abortion of a thread

thanks! -fake tears-

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:53 pm

oh an derek, folowed your advise! it turns out also one of the mems was faulty 2! ( christ, anything else?) anyway, better case against them !

guess what? Now i have new CPU / new DDR2 baby! feeewwwww it was a fking long day! im going to sleep forever .

everything seems fine, Orthos passed for over 2 hourS now, Memtest ok2,

OVERALL MUCH LOWER TEMPERATURES USING THE RETAIL INTEL STOCK COOLER, on the first attempt...

(TAT reports idle 22C / 23C and pcprobe 32C / 33C IDLE )

how could this be possible? same retention mechanism.

IMHO my ninja was already busted, All I did was finish what they started

few pics

THE NINJA KILLER

CLICK! JUST LIKE I DID BEFORE... SECURE AND STRAIGHT TO THE BOTTOM

^

MY NINJA CLEARLY WAS A POS.

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:09 pm

nick705 wrote:
JazzJackRabbit wrote:Blue said it best. It is an amusing thread. Yes, it is a little sad to see ninja mangled like that, however, I chuckled at the way OP took out his anger at the heatsink.
Anyway, at least he didn't shoot it, like Elvis Presley did with his De Tomaso Pantera...

That would probably be a better idea actually. Pity I don't have a gun, much less the Firearm ID needed to own one...

derekchinese · Post by **derekchinese** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:06 pm

Good work dude!!!!!!

Now you need to go back to the shop and pickup a thermalright ultra 120 extreme!

How did you find out your ram was dead too?
Derek

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:48 pm

pure luck. i didn't know if the mobo was fkd 2, so one of the test i did- Memtest -gave me massive failures. luckily this good friend of mine donated his E4300 for test.

i dont know about the ultra extreme, im going to see if i can find a smaller but efficient heastink this time. Kinda like my xp-90.

that Ultima-90I looks nice...

peteamer · Post by **peteamer** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:27 am

nick705 wrote:Anyway, at least he didn't shoot it, like Elvis Presley did with his De Tomaso Pantera...

NNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

Please tell me it wasn't a 'Hall'...

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:37 am

peteamer wrote:
nick705 wrote:Anyway, at least he didn't shoot it, like Elvis Presley did with his De Tomaso Pantera...
NNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

Please tell me it wasn't a 'Hall'...

http://www.qv500.com/detomasoregistrypan01954.php

Looks like a bog standard 1971 model.

I liked the Pantera - I just think it was a mistake trying to pitch it up against contemporary Ferraris, Maseratis etc. If they'd marketed it as a kind of mid-engined Cobra, they might have sold a lot more of them.

Funny it sold for $450,000 in 1992 - that must have been when speculators were pushing classic car prices to silly levels. Not a good move as it turned out...

BillTodd · Post by **BillTodd** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:36 am

could this be possible?... signs of empathy / trust from another person? -emotional tears-

i don't know exactly why it failed, on paper it looks really good.

Im starting to believe it has something to do with the copper base not making proper contact with the inner heatpipes / rest of the structure

is evident that the screws that hold / attach the base have not been properly tightened AT ALL , they are ridiculously loose and almost feel like decoration-

sorry if im not been clear... maybe some pics would help

Does your CPU have a heat spreader or does the heat-sink sit down on to the silicon die directly? If the latter, then it often leaves a 'witness' mark on the copper (due to the sharp edges of the die), can you see any such marks on the copper plate?

BTW it looks like the heat-pipes are soldered or brazed to the copper plate so , apart from being a sign of poor quality control (as does the blue/green corrosion), I doubt the loose screws would have had a huge effect.