Super bright LED light bulb

[Trip]

LED lights, as far as I'm aware, used to be too dim for practical use.

However, I recently purchased a 15 W Par30 bulb from LEDtronics and it's brighter than the Halogen it replaced.

It claims to last for 50000 hours and is guaranteed for 3 years, though LED's are usually sensitive to power fluctuations, so I'll wait and see whether I get my money's worth.

And yes, this is a $100+ light bulb

Advantages: less electricty, less waste (bulbs), possibly less cost in the long run, no UV or IR (heat - which keeps cost of air conditioning down a tiny bit).

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There's also a 4.5 Watt R30 bulb which would save more electricity.

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I'm interested in an LED reading lamp now, if anyone knows of any good ones.

My current lamp's "UV filter" is unsettling - long hours by its side I hope aren't slowly blinding me (the light gets out the sides of the filter, and so isn't entirely filtered from direct line with my eyes.)

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All light bulb related comments are welcome

[Trip]

"Total End Foot Candela" appears to be more important than lumens for my use, since the light shines down from a bucket light.

Lumens is total light output, Total End Foot Candela is the amount of light reaching the area it's directed at.

The viewing angles of light bulbs can vary, meaning the focus of the light can vary.

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I didn't know any of this a few days ago. I'm unaware whether or not this is common knowledge.

So, save a hunk of coal - use LED bulbs. (Not as catchy a phrase as "save a tree", eh?)

[L2GX]

Not to mention they don't contain mercury... http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/ ... 010803.asp
From an ecologic point of view, the savings of replacing all one's lights are negligable compared to the energy cost of a car, so the whole CFL hype smells of lobbying.
We should have stuck with glowbulbs for 2 more years and then switched straight to LED's.

so way to go Trip!

[Ralf Hutter]

And yes, this is a $100+ light bulb

No. Effing. Way. Ever.

[Matija]

Incandescent FTW.

[jhhoffma]

At that price........Candles FTW!!!!

[NeilBlanchard]

Hello,

Don't let it get too hot. This is LED's weak point.

[Trip]

Hello,

Don't let it get too hot. This is LED's weak point.

Thanks for the heads up. It's not in the kitchen, so hopefully it'll be alright.

[Trip]

And yes, this is a $100+ light bulb

No. Effing. Way. Ever.

Well, it replaced an $8 halogen bulb that was burning out every other month. If it lasts 3 years, I'll save.

It costs more than my TV, but I use it more than the TV.

[scdr]

On the other hand, that $100 if invested in standard CFLs could save a whole lot more energy. (Not outstandingly cost effective as a way to save energy.)

$100 for a 15w bulb that replaces a 75w halogen, lifetime 50k hrs.
Lifetime energy savings:
(75-15)w * 50k hrs = 3,000 kw-hrs

Standard CFL
$3 for a 13w bulb that replaces a 60w bulb lifetime 10k hrs

33 bulbs * (60-13)w * 10k hrs = 15,510 kw-hrs
[I just picked this sort of bulb since they are common, inexpensive, etc.]
(total 330k hours)

[Which ignores the other parts of lifecycle cost, of course.]

[IsaacKuo]

At that price........Candles FTW!!!!

At that price.....brail!

[Trip]

On the other hand, that $100 if invested in standard CFLs could save a whole lot more energy. (Not outstandingly cost effective as a way to save energy.)

$100 for a 15w bulb that replaces a 75w halogen, lifetime 50k hrs.
Lifetime energy savings:
(75-15)w * 50k hrs = 3,000 kw-hrs

Standard CFL
$3 for a 13w bulb that replaces a 60w bulb lifetime 10k hrs

33 bulbs * (60-13)w * 10k hrs = 15,510 kw-hrs
[I just picked this sort of bulb since they are common, inexpensive, etc.]
(total 330k hours)

[Which ignores the other parts of lifecycle cost, of course.]

These sound much more reasonable

The CFL's I'd looked at in Lowe's had 10K life cycles, but at $30 weren't as cheap. However, a quick google search brings CFL bulbs, maybe not exactly the type I want, right up at a price of $4.5. Hmm...

LEDs can be found for less, $45ish, on the web, however they're not super bright like this one and don't last as long.

[Trip]

Amazon has the CFL I want at $13...

So, not taking time value of money and lowering costs of light bulbs into account:

that's $65 for 5 CFLs vs. $100 for 1 LED.

Not tragic.

[jack_aubrey]

Amazon has the CFL I want at $13...

Careful - that's "Bulborama", not Amazon, and they're charging $10 shipping/bulb.

[lm]

Remember these costs too:

- Capital costs. 100$ today is not the same thing as 100$ after one year, so you can't just add up all the costs of things that happen in different times in the future. And these do affect everyone.

- Costs of productivity loss with inferior lighting. Lighting should try to mimic sunlight in spectrum, because that is where the human eye can see best, and thus it reduces eyestrain, which is the other defining factor of decreasing eyesight performance during aging (the other is your genes).

[aristide1]

I did some research on the LEDs themselves. The latest superbright ones seem like a huge step forward, until you look at 2 things:

1. Instead of 30 milliamps each they consume more like 300.
2. They come with an enviromental warning, because of the materials used.

LED lights in any quantity will need some sort of ballast, which adds heat, which is certainly not a plus for efficiency.

That said what I would like would be to have say one trolling battery in the attack that's recharged via solar, and then use the 12 volts directly as the source for all lighting in the house. And maybe a small 12V DVD player or TV in the bedroom.

http://www.discovercircuits.com/H-Corner/AC-Powered.htm

This is by far the simplest circuit I have seen for a ballast, but by design the LED's only conduct for 1/2 of the AC cycle, hence you need twice as many.

http://www.mouser.com/seoulsemiconductor/

Some kick-arse LED's.

[lm]

Even though CFL's have mercury, the amount of energy you save by replacing an incandescent light bulb with a cfl of equal light intensity, during the lifetime of the bulb, is so much, that producing that amount of energy by coal will release MORE mercury in the air at the power plant (tiny amount of mercury impurities in the coal itself) than the amount of mercury needed to make the cfl.

So by replacing your incandescent bulbs with CFLs, you are actually reducing the global mercury pollution. Even more so, if you recycle used CFLs responsibly.

[jhhoffma]

Even though CFL's have mercury, the amount of energy you save by replacing an incandescent light bulb with a cfl of equal light intensity, during the lifetime of the bulb, is so much, that producing that amount of energy by coal will release MORE mercury in the air at the power plant (tiny amount of mercury impurities in the coal itself) than the amount of mercury needed to make the cfl.

So by replacing your incandescent bulbs with CFLs, you are actually reducing the global mercury pollution. Even more so, if you recycle used CFLs responsibly.

Can you provide a link that shows that info?

[dragmor]

Even though CFL's have mercury, the amount of energy you save by replacing an incandescent light bulb with a cfl of equal light intensity, during the lifetime of the bulb, is so much, that producing that amount of energy by coal will release MORE mercury in the air at the power plant (tiny amount of mercury impurities in the coal itself) than the amount of mercury needed to make the cfl.

So by replacing your incandescent bulbs with CFLs, you are actually reducing the global mercury pollution. Even more so, if you recycle used CFLs responsibly.

Can you provide a link that shows that info?

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/p ... ercury.pdf

[Trip]

Costs of productivity loss with inferior lighting. Lighting should try to mimic sunlight in spectrum, because that is where the human eye can see best, and thus it reduces eyestrain, which is the other defining factor of decreasing eyesight performance during aging (the other is your genes).

That's a good point. Eye sight's odd though - it's not that you lose your sight so much as your eyes focus incorrectly (or the muscles weaken or the lens grows less flexible). I guess with natural light we see things as we're supposed to, but I wonder if we couldn't just learn the correct habits.

[aristide1]

12 volt lights = 13 watt 12Volt CFL - $13.78 each. 600 lumens on just over one amp. How many could a good trolling battery light for several 7 hour evenings?

http://www.nolico.com/saveenergy/12_volt_marine_cfl.htm

BIG PLUS - DC lights are flicker free.

[Cerb]

Costs of productivity loss with inferior lighting. Lighting should try to mimic sunlight in spectrum, because that is where the human eye can see best, and thus it reduces eyestrain, which is the other defining factor of decreasing eyesight performance during aging (the other is your genes).

That's a good point. Eye sight's odd though - it's not that you lose your sight so much as your eyes focus incorrectly (or the muscles weaken or the lens grows less flexible). I guess with natural light we see things as we're supposed to, but I wonder if we couldn't just learn the correct habits.

Doubtful. The best solution will come from maturing of LEDs. LEDs currently lack any decent semblance of proper white light's broad spectrum, and there's just no way around it. You need a wide frequency range being put out fairly evenly. With energy costs not going down any time soon, there is, unlike with fluorescents, huge demand while the technology is in its infancy.

I did some research on the LEDs themselves. The latest superbright ones seem like a huge step forward, until you look at 2 things:

1. Instead of 30 milliamps each they consume more like 300.

They use whatever they are allowed to. Most are rated for tint and lumen output at 350mA, but can handle much higher current, if properly heatsinked. The K2 and Rebel LEDs are even rated to above 1A. Most have their peak efficiency somewhere between 200 and 350mA.

2. They come with an enviromental warning, because of the materials used.

What materials and how much? A warning only means that politicians took notice, and the manufacturers didn't care if it was there.

LED lights in any quantity will need some sort of ballast, which adds heat, which is certainly not a plus for efficiency.

It should be included in any measure of the efficiency, and a proper driver (outputting clean DC) will prolong the life of the LED (LEDs are not ripple-friendly). 80%+ seems to be typical, so it's not really bad.

That said what I would like would be to have say one trolling battery in the attack that's recharged via solar, and then use the 12 volts directly as the source for all lighting in the house. And maybe a small 12V DVD player or TV in the bedroom.

Wouldn't 12V DC be insanely inefficient for powering a house? Getting rid of the inefficiencies of the power grid sounds good, but wouldn't you want to stick with AC, or at least use higher voltage DC (like maybe 48V)?

http://www.discovercircuits.com/H-Corner/AC-Powered.htm

This is by far the simplest circuit I have seen for a ballast, but by design the LED's only conduct for 1/2 of the AC cycle, hence you need twice as many.

...or bigger caps and a rectifier? Even if, they would be changing voltage quite a bit, wasting energy doing so, and if they are fairly bright, they will be self-defeating in the long run. A much better, but not cheaper, solution would be to use high-CRI 1+ watt LEDs (Nichia and Seoul both make some, dunno about Lumileds), a big chunk of aluminum, and a proper DC driver. Replace 'proper' with 'economical', and you've got the OP's lamp, I think.

http://www.mouser.com/seoulsemiconductor/

Some kick-arse LED's.

Yes, and there are plenty of them. But, for those that couldn't stand fluorescent until low color temp and wide spectrum lamps became common, LEDs have a long way to go for home lighting.

12 volt lights = 13 watt 12Volt CFL - $13.78 each. 600 lumens on just over one amp. How many could a good trolling battery light for several 7 hour evenings?

http://www.nolico.com/saveenergy/12_volt_marine_cfl.htm

BIG PLUS - DC lights are flicker free.

It's a CFL...you don't know whether it is DC or AC when it hits the gas. All you know about is the type of power going into the base, which has very little to do with flickering. They could very well have a step-up that flickers. I couldn't find a data sheet that gave any real information. Based on http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/ap ... umber/3528, it would seem highly likely it is stepped up AC.

As a final note: unless the manufacturer is willing to give a circuit overview for the many-LED lamp, I would consider it suspect. They could rectify and filter the AC easily and cheaply, with resistors to limit current, and you'll have a neat LED lamp...until it blows or dims or turns more blue due to not being fed clean power over its lifetime.

The OP's looks quite good, actually (as long as you have good AC going in...they do at least warn about it)...I wouldn't pay $100 for a lamp, myself, but since I'm going to save for a $300 flashlight (Arc6), no harsh words are coming from me about that!

[qviri]

Costs of productivity loss with inferior lighting. Lighting should try to mimic sunlight in spectrum, because that is where the human eye can see best, and thus it reduces eyestrain, which is the other defining factor of decreasing eyesight performance during aging (the other is your genes).

That's a good point. Eye sight's odd though - it's not that you lose your sight so much as your eyes focus incorrectly (or the muscles weaken or the lens grows less flexible). I guess with natural light we see things as we're supposed to, but I wonder if we couldn't just learn the correct habits.

In response to the last bit about learning new habits, not really. Not accidentally, what we see as visible spectrum (violet to red, about 400 to 750 nm) is exactly the most powerful part of radiation emitted by our sun -- we see what is easiest to see. This is something we are born with and not learned. Certainly not something to be changed within one generation.

I don't know the theory on eyesight loss, but I'd imagine being around light different from sunlight causes strain (for the same reason as reading with a flashlight under a cover), and repeated strain may well weaken the muscles or the lens.

[aristide1]

12 volt lights = 13 watt 12Volt CFL - $13.78 each. 600 lumens on just over one amp. How many could a good trolling battery light for several 7 hour evenings?

http://www.nolico.com/saveenergy/12_volt_marine_cfl.htm

BIG PLUS - DC lights are flicker free.

It's a CFL...you don't know whether it is DC or AC when it hits the gas. All you know about is the type of power going into the base, which has very little to do with flickering. They could very well have a step-up that flickers. I couldn't find a data sheet that gave any real information. Based on http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/ap ... umber/3528, it would seem highly likely it is stepped up AC.

While there is that possibility, and let's say for a moment that it's correct, you don't know if the AC frequency used would be low enough to produce discernable flicker. There's every reason to believe such a small DC to AC converter would be very high frequency, and no reason at all to stay with something as low and inefficent a frequency as 60Hz.

[Cerb]

12 volt lights = 13 watt 12Volt CFL - $13.78 each. 600 lumens on just over one amp. How many could a good trolling battery light for several 7 hour evenings?

http://www.nolico.com/saveenergy/12_volt_marine_cfl.htm

BIG PLUS - DC lights are flicker free.

It's a CFL...you don't know whether it is DC or AC when it hits the gas. All you know about is the type of power going into the base, which has very little to do with flickering. They could very well have a step-up that flickers. I couldn't find a data sheet that gave any real information. Based on http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/ap ... umber/3528, it would seem highly likely it is stepped up AC.

While there is that possibility, and let's say for a moment that it's correct, you don't know if the AC frequency used would be low enough to produce discernable flicker. There's every reason to believe such a small DC to AC converter would be very high frequency, and no reason at all to stay with something as low and inefficent a frequency as 60Hz.

Yes...which is just as true for one plugging into 12V DC as one plugging into 60Hz 120V.

[aristide1]

Yes...which is just as true for one plugging into 12V DC as one plugging into 60Hz 120V.

Are you saying that 120V 60Hz AC is converted to DC then to a higher frequency AC?

Otherwise Cerb is correct. Here:

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/

Choose "lighting" from the online catalog and scroll half way down. One sees 12volt ballasts that run conventional bulbs.

"Ballast converts 12 volts to high voltage to use ordinary fluorescent tubes available anywhere. 12 volt only. Includes AM radio interference reduction option. Two year warranty."

Do a find on "BARE STRAIGHT TUBE FIXTURES".

A 20 watt bulb (1.6 amps) creates 1250 lumens. The 32 watter (3 amps) creates 3150 lumens. Who needs expensive LEDS? Bulb is F-32T8, then go here:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/F32T8/

And choose your own spectrum of light.

[Trip]

I found a new positive of LED bulbs: no mercury gas inside.

CFL bulbs though do have mercury gas, which isn't supposedly hazardous except where large numbers of bulbs have broken.

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Bringing me to my question: do people dispose of these dern things? I have a few CFL bulbs now, but I hate to just toss them into the garbage.

[Trip]

I've also discovered cheaper sources of LED bulbs.

If disposal becomes an issue for CF, then I might now switch.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

Where is your source for the inexpensive LED's -- do tell!

All fluorescents have mercury, and the new CFL's have a relatively tiny amount; like 3-5mg. Stores are starting to take back old bulbs, to recycle the mercury -- my local hardware store (Aubuchon) does this. They also take tube fluorescents, which have about 10X as much mercury. The old thermostats have ~3,000mg of mercury in them.

Since ~50% of our electricity in the USA comes from coal, which releases the largest amount of mercury of any source, IIANM -- the fact that CFL's save so much electricity, means that even if you break the bulb, there is less mercury in the environment. Of course, I recommend that you recycle the bulbs AND save the electricity!

[AZBrandon]

All fluorescents have mercury, and the new CFL's have a relatively tiny amount; like 3-5mg. Stores are starting to take back old bulbs, to recycle the mercury -- my local hardware store (Aubuchon) does this. They also take tube fluorescents, which have about 10X as much mercury. The old thermostats have ~3,000mg of mercury in them.

Since ~50% of our electricity in the USA comes from coal, which releases the largest amount of mercury of any source, IIANM -- the fact that CFL's save so much electricity, means that even if you break the bulb, there is less mercury in the environment. Of course, I recommend that you recycle the bulbs AND save the electricity!

On that topic, I would still suggest going with low mercury CFL's. They're roughly the same cost as the good quality 3-5mg models and contain only 1mg per bulb:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/Neolite-Compact-Fluorescents/