Non US citizens from the other 30 countries on the continent

Our "pub" where you can post about things completely Off Topic or about non-silent PC issues.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

Post Reply
xan_user
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 2269
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Location: Northern California.

Non US citizens from the other 30 countries on the continent

Post by xan_user » Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:49 pm

:?: Non US citizens from the other 30 countries on the continent, how do you feel when the United States is referred to solely as "America"?

Does it bother your sense of patriotism as a citizen of one of those other American countries? Do Canadians say they're Americans when asked where they come from? Brazilians? Cubans? ect.
Ever since I could read the globe as a child I would wonder when some on said they're American, why they really meant from the US.

Right now our presidential election coverage here is called "America's Election HQ" by at least one , and probably more networks. Does similar billing happen by your media when your elections are taking place too?

If we in the US are going to lay sole claim to the title "Americans" than I think we ought to let the rest of the continent vote too.(Or at least get electoral college 'representation', since that's all we really get :twisted: )

What do you non US Citizens think?

qviri
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Post by qviri » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:45 pm

Personal opinion:

not bothered when "America" is used to refer to USA. From what I've seen, we're more likely to use "the States" ourselves when in need of a short form, but "America" would be understood to mean USA as well. We definitely wouldn't use "American" to explain where we're from, and most people would take at least mild offense to being referred to as such. If requested clarification, Canadians would almost universally explain Canada is a country to the north of the United States.

I don't really see it as a big deal either way. Of course, our relationship with the States is probably quite different than that of, say, Brazil.
Thinkpad X200 – aging fan, T60p – Core Duo whine :(
Nothing endures but change

oldabelincoln
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:46 pm
Location: Silicon Valley

Post by oldabelincoln » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:46 pm

As a US citizen, I'd rather that the country was referred to as the USA or the US - we don't occupy two continents, and we fought a civil war to keep it united. However, if asked, I call myself "an American", as it's just too bloody awkward to say "a citizen of the United States of America", and nobody's come up with a shorter form that isn't just "an American". Our government, even under the odious Bush, always uses either "the United States" or "the United States of America". And if a TV show lays claim to "America", perhaps you'd better ask them to give it back.

I note in passing, that according to a cousin who is a specialist in pre-Colombian archeology, in Spain, "America" refers to the former Spanish colonies. As usual, the way things look depends upon where you stand (or, in the case of Spain, stood).
Abe
--------
Antec Solo, 550W NeoHE, GB EP45-UD3P, Intel Q9300, 4GB OCZ memory, Nexus 120mm rear fan, Thermalright HR-01+, Scythe 140mm CPU fan, 2-Nexus 92mm front fan, 512MB ATI 4670. 2-2TB Samsung F4, 1-1TB & 1-2TB WD Caviar Green, Pioneer 215 and 216 DVD-RWs.

widowmaker
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: Toronto Ontario

Post by widowmaker » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:40 pm

It doesn't bother me since it's so widely used and accepted to refer to the USA. I don't feel like the Americans :P are hogging the word "America". It's pretty trivial considering there is no extra power or rights by claiming a word.

This reminds me of another curiosity I have. I am a "Chinese Canadian" born in Hong Kong. Since Hong Kong was a British colony at the time of my birth, should I technically be British? Would Britons be offended if I refered to myself as Chinese? :wink:
[size=75]You will never be strong enough
You will never be good enough
You were never conceived in love
You will not rise above[/size]

jessekopelman
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:28 pm
Location: USA

Post by jessekopelman » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:12 pm

There are no other countries with the word America in their name, so what's the point here? While it is certainly technically correct that anyone from The Americas is an American, the more common usage is to refer to someone's actual nation of origin. Would you refer to a French national as a European from France or would you just call them French?

m0002a
Posts: 2831
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Location: USA

Post by m0002a » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:12 pm

The Unites States of America is the only country in the world that that I am aware of that has the name America its official name of the country, and it has been that way since 1776.

When I am overseas and someone asks me where I am from, I always say the US, or USA, or United States. I have found that people outside the USA are just as likely (or even more likely) to refer to US citizens as Americans.

Part of the reason has to do with grammar. For example, people from Russia are Russian, people from England are British, people from China are Chinese, etc. To be consistent along these lines, one could say United States of American, but people just use American for short.

That someone would actually suggest that non-USA citizens should be allowed to vote in US elections because of their use of the word America or American, suggests that there are some very emotionally scared people out there.

jessekopelman
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:28 pm
Location: USA

Post by jessekopelman » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:14 pm

widowmaker wrote:This reminds me of another curiosity I have. I am a "Chinese Canadian" born in Hong Kong. Since Hong Kong was a British colony at the time of my birth, should I technically be British? Would Britons be offended if I refered to myself as Chinese? :wink:
You are conflating ethnicity with nationality.

m0002a
Posts: 2831
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Location: USA

Post by m0002a » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:20 pm

widowmaker wrote:This reminds me of another curiosity I have. I am a "Chinese Canadian" born in Hong Kong. Since Hong Kong was a British colony at the time of my birth, should I technically be British? Would Britons be offended if I refered to myself as Chinese? :wink:
That makes clear the distinction between nationality and ethnicity. Your ethnicity is Chinese, but you are Canadian nationality.

This difference is more likely to occur in countries like Canada and the USA than some other countries, partly (but not solely) because citizenship is often times only granted to those with the "proper" ethnicity, regardless of where you are born.

m0002a
Posts: 2831
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Location: USA

Post by m0002a » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:21 pm

jessekopelman wrote:You are conflating ethnicity with nationality.
I swear I did not see your post when while I composed mine. I need to improve my typing speed.

widowmaker
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: Toronto Ontario

Post by widowmaker » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:25 am

Ah, very true. I'm not sure how I failed to distinguish between ethnicity and nationality. Thank you for enlightening me.
[size=75]You will never be strong enough
You will never be good enough
You were never conceived in love
You will not rise above[/size]

FartingBob
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 744
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:05 am
Location: London
Contact:

Post by FartingBob » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:53 am

m0002a wrote: Part of the reason has to do with grammar. For example, people from Russia are Russian, people from England are British, people from China are Chinese, etc. To be consistent along these lines, one could say United States of American, but people just use American for short.
This kind of goes against your grammar thing. People from Britain are British would make more sense. :wink:
I tend to refer to Americans and American (see!), nobody gets confused about you meaning country or continent, since if we're talking about continent most people i know would say north/south American, not just "American".
I have no signature!

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Post by andyb » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:24 am

While it is certainly technically correct that anyone from The Americas is an American, the more common usage is to refer to someone's actual nation of origin. Would you refer to a French national as a European from France or would you just call them French?
You took the words out of my mouth.
people from England are British
We damned well are NOT, we are English, the people from Wales are Welsh, the people from Scotland are Scottish, the People from Northern Ireland are Northern Irish, collectively we are "British" as we are United into a classification of the British Isles AKA the United Kingdom. There are some specific differences between British (Great Britain) and the UK (United Kingdom) which you can find out on the net if you want to.

Unlike the "United States of America" we are 3 (and a bit) countries that are united, and not just States.

Going back to the original point, most people over here know the US, USA, US of A, or America as the same thing, or as I refer to the place quite frequently USA (pronounced "ou-sa" simply because its easier to say), its also catching on as well, so if in 5 years time you hear people refering to your country as "ousa" feel free to blame me :)

What do people in the USA call where I live, is it England, The UK, Great Britain or something I dont know about.

BTW: We call Canada, Mexico, Alaska, and all of the Islands around North America by their names, and are collectively known along with all of the countries in South America and Central America as the "America's"

A question to the Original Poster, would you call "South Africa", just "Africa" because it has the word Africa in its name.???


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

m0002a
Posts: 2831
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Location: USA

Post by m0002a » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:38 am

andyb wrote:What do people in the USA call where I live, is it England, The UK, Great Britain or something I dont know about.
Andy
I think it is a bit confusing for most US'ians as to what you call you. I know that Northern Ireland is part of the UK, but is it part of Great Britain? I know the Scottish are a bit touchy these days also.

jessekopelman
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:28 pm
Location: USA

Post by jessekopelman » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:06 am

andyb wrote:I refer to the place quite frequently USA (pronounced "ou-sa" simply because its easier to say), its also catching on as well, so if in 5 years time you hear people refering to your country as "ousa" feel free to blame me :)
There's a town in Japan named Usa (also pronounced ousa, I believe). Pre-1970s, when the US was known for quality products and Japan was known for cheap crap (almost the reverse of today) its fairly common for Japanese goods to be stamped "made in Usa" in an attempt to fool people without outright lying.

What do people in the USA call where I live, is it England, The UK, Great Britain or something I dont know about.

BTW: We call Canada, Mexico, Alaska, and all of the Islands around North America by their names, and are collectively known along with all of the countries in South America and Central America as the "America's"
andyb wrote:A question to the Original Poster, would you call "South Africa", just "Africa" because it has the word Africa in its name.???
I think this is a much better line of thought than most of the anti-USA as America rhetoric in this thread. One thing to note, however, is that there is no actual country or continent specifically named America. So the case of referring to South Africa as Africa is similar but not equivalent. I would also note that while it would be misleading (not incorrect) to refer to South Africa as Africa, it is completely correct (albeit nonspecific) to refer to someone from South Africa as an African. That is why I would say it is not wrong to say someone from Brazil is an American, but it is also needlessly non-specific -- especially given that there are many subdivisions of The Americas each with differentiated peoples, governments, and cultures. I find the original poster's claim that is wrong to refer to the US as America akin to saying it is wrong to the King James Bible as The Bible, since there are many other bibles and bible equivalents.

lucas82
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:24 pm
Location: Santa Maria - Brasil

Post by lucas82 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:52 pm

I don't care.
Here in Brazil we don't say "America" to refer to USA, we say "Estados Unidos" (United States in portuguese).
But, because "estado-unidense" - wich is one of the possible gentilics in portuguese - sounds so weird, we say "americano" (american) to refer to a USA born person, or a thing made in USA.

m0002a
Posts: 2831
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:12 am
Location: USA

Post by m0002a » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:16 pm

lucas82 wrote:...But, because "estado-unidense" - wich is one of the possible gentilics in portuguese - sounds so weird, we say "americano" (american) to refer to a USA born person, or a thing made in USA.
It sounds weird in English also.

aristide1
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:21 pm
Location: Undisclosed but sober in US

Post by aristide1 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:40 pm

In any case 6 billion people will be doing cartwheels on 1-20-2009.
People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither patriots nor human beings.

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Post by andyb » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:50 am

In any case 6 billion people will be doing cartwheels on 1-20-2009.
Why.? Is it International Cartwheel Day, on the 1st of the mysterious 20th month of the year :?


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

peteamer
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:24 am
Location: 'Sunny' Cornwall U.K.

Post by peteamer » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:34 am

andyb wrote:Why.? Is it International Cartwheel Day, on the 1st of the mysterious 20th month of the year :?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:twisted:

tehcrazybob
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa
Contact:

Post by tehcrazybob » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:52 pm

I'm a US citizen, but the majority of my online interactions are here and at Bit-Tech.net, based in England. As a result, I'm very careful to avoid mentioning America unless I mean the continent, and I also respect the distinctions between British, English, and the rest of the UK that AndyB pointed out.

However, as m0002a pointed out, ours is the only country in the world to include "America" in the name. While "***** America" is one of two continents, I can certainly understand when the country "The United States of America" is shortened to "America." My experience has been that most people in most countries understand or agree with this, so while I try to avoid it I also don't have a problem with it.

jhhoffma
Posts: 2131
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:00 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Post by jhhoffma » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:41 am

In my lifetime, I've come across a great many people from other nations, and almost all of them with the exception of a few from the UK, call this land America. We are Americans...no two ways about it.

It's like calling the former CCCP/USSR citizens "Soviets" or, inaccurately, "Russians".

Regarding the whole UK thing. I think in general, most (relatively) educated people know that UK and England are not the same thing. However, most people don't know that Great Britain and England are not exactly the same thing. I would venture that most Americans probably think that Wales is either a nearby island or a region inside England, hence the ambiguity. Scotland, probably has a similar situation with Ireland; being separate but still part of the whole. Braveheart probably didn't do anything to help in that regard.
HTPC: OrigenAE X11|Gigabyte GA-MA785GPMT-UD2H|Phenom II x3 740BE w/AC Freezer 7|150GB Velociraptor|Corsair VX450
Main: Antec 300 (SlipStream @ 800rpm/140mm @ 5v)|Asus M4A88TD-M|Phenom II x4 945 (Mugen2 pass.)|Asus EAH6850|Samsung 830 128GB|Antec TP750
WHS: DF-85|P8H67-M Pro|I5-3450S/Hyper 212+|Corsair AX650|Sandisk Extreme 240GB, 2xWD20EARS, 2x WD15EARS, WD15EADS

aristide1
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 4284
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:21 pm
Location: Undisclosed but sober in US

Post by aristide1 » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm

When anyone traveling to Europe asks me for advice I tell them to wear a maple leaf pin and hopefully they will be mistaken for a Canadian.
People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither patriots nor human beings.

mathias
Posts: 2057
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:58 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by mathias » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:42 pm

I don't think "american" really has that sort of connotation. Not in the same sense as "european". In the same way, I would think that middle easteners or residents of siberia wouldn't think of themselves as really part of asia. Plus, I don't think the western hemisphere really needs to refer to itself as a whole, it's neatly groupable into a very managable number of smaller somewhat uniform regions.

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Post by andyb » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:06 am

When anyone traveling to Europe asks me for advice I tell them to wear a maple leaf pin and hopefully they will be mistaken for a Canadian.
I have heard of that several times before, and it works too. :)


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

Post Reply