Prius vs Lexus IS vs Lexus GS

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Aris
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Prius vs Lexus IS vs Lexus GS

Post by Aris » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:06 pm

So i've got an 07 prius now, but i didnt opt for the comfy leather seats, or in dash navigation. We need a second car, and while i love the gas mileage of this car i want something more comfy, also id rather have AWD instead of FWD.

So the prius all decked out is around 30k, an IS is around 40k, and a GS is around 50k. This is assuming the IS and GS are the AWD versions. Is the extra 10-20k for an IS/GS going to give me a significant amount of luxury over a prius with leather/nav package? Performance doesnt really matter all that much to me. It really all boils down to luxury, ride comfort, drive stability and gas mileage.

I would really like to go with the prius and the good gas mileage, but if the ride comfort is going to significantly suffer, id rather pay a bit more and get less mileage.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:42 pm

or it boils down to the driving you'll be doing with it.

long or short distance? i'm just a gearhead, but the Prius was actually a great way to get our money from the Japanese. the 4 cylinder engine that it's got next to that hulking electric one only gets around 20mpg. lest we forget it only kicks in at what? 25mph and up? no biggie for town driving, in fact, for town driving, the Prius is a brilliant idea, don't get me wrong, but let's not be ignorant to how it's made.

We mine that toxic Nickel in Canada for the batteries inside...but we need to ship that to Europe to refine it (in a big boat no less). After the Nickel is refined, it gets sent to China (great place right?) where it's turned into a foam (just a foam), when it's finally shipped out to Japan (oh, just across a little bit of water) to be put into those magical batteries inside the Prius (which have an indefinite life cycle, depending on wear and tear as well as the recharge rate).

so, i think the important question to ask is how it's being driven. my parents just bought a new car that'll arrive in april, the new Mini Clubman, but that's because it's a lot smaller than what they're used to.

i'd say leather is just a money waster, but i hate all car seats (they mess up my back), and NAV is for directionally challenged people.

i can agree about not liking FWD, but AWD isn't necessarily a plus unless it's on a winding road, in poor weather, the wheels just slip a lot.

Aris
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Post by Aris » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:55 pm

i really dont understand your reply.

First, i like leather, i really dont care if you do or not, that wasnt my question.

Second, i dont care how its driven. Average gas mileage on my prius reguardless of how its driven is around 43mpg. I estimate either of the lexus' to be around 20mpg, maybe a bit less.

I'm really looking for replies from people who have owned one of the three, and to post their opinions about ride quality and luxury.

m0002a
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Post by m0002a » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:58 pm

It is going to be hard to find someone who owns a loaded Prius and one of the other two cars. Even if you did find someone, you are relying on someone elses opiintion. I don't understand why you don't just test drive the cars, since all you want to know about luxury, ride, etc.

peerke
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Post by peerke » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:42 am

Aris wrote:i really dont understand your reply.

First, i like leather, i really dont care if you do or not, that wasnt my question.

Second, i dont care how its driven. Average gas mileage on my prius reguardless of how its driven is around 43mpg. I estimate either of the lexus' to be around 20mpg, maybe a bit less.

I'm really looking for replies from people who have owned one of the three, and to post their opinions about ride quality and luxury.
Ride quality and luxury are very subjective. You can't go by what other people perceive as such.
For me ride quality means good damper control and finely judged spring rates. I get sick in a car that 'floats'. Little tire roar is a bonus that I would sacrifice for quality feedback through the steering wheel but I know most people don't care about the latter.
You clearly perceive leather as a luxury item whereas I don't like the smell when it's new and I hate the feeling of sliding in my seat when I'm taking a corner.
I want a good stereo in a car that lets me listen to real music but others might prefer a 5000 Watt 'boom car'.
You seem to prefer Toyota/Lexus as a brand. I would never choose them for myself as their cars don't seem to fit my needs and body measurements. I am never comfortable. However their cars are built to a very high standard of quality.
You mention gas mileage as important and seem to think that the Prius does very well. It might be ok for town driving but compared to a good medium sized European high performance diesel car such as a BMW 330d or Golf TDI it doesn't do any better and performs a lot worse. For economy records you could look at a VW Polo Bluemotion (no idea if it's available in the US) which does 75 mpg and has lower emissions than a Prius and comparable performance and internal space.

Why is all wheel drive important to you? It won't give you any more drive stability. It only has advantages on snow, ice or off road conditions or as an enhancement of cornering performance for very fast cars. Otherwise it's only extra weight and possibly extra noise for you to carry around. Usually it is also worse for ride comfort.
If you are still thinking you want a big Lexus all wheel drive saloon than try a Lexus Hybrid drive model for yourself. It's the only way to know if it will suit your requirements.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:52 am

Aris wrote:i really dont understand your reply.

First, i like leather, i really dont care if you do or not, that wasnt my question.

Second, i dont care how its driven. Average gas mileage on my prius reguardless of how its driven is around 43mpg. I estimate either of the lexus' to be around 20mpg, maybe a bit less.

I'm really looking for replies from people who have owned one of the three, and to post their opinions about ride quality and luxury.
First of all, how it's driven will have a huge effect on your gas mileage. Lead foot, vs calm driver. road rage will kill your mileage, so will driving it up hills constantly.

Next, will it be an automatic? I'm guessing so, but I could be wrong.

I was watching Top Gear last night after replying to this, and there was a V6 twin turbo Jaguar that went 740 miles on one tank of gas, and still had enough gas to go 130 miles. Those "Super Efficient cars" like the VW Polo Bluemotion had an empty tank at the end of the same run.

Also, you didn't list any cars with a small four cylinder engine. Nor did you mention what grade fuel you're sticking in the tank.

1) My dad's 19 year old Dodge Omni gets 42mpg with a 4cylinder 1.6L (not positive about that) engine.

2) My two older sisters get similar results in a 1996 Dodge Neon, and a 1997 Saturn SL2 (although the SL2 now has a Cobalt engine because of some intense wear and tear).

i don't have to have driven the cars to give my input, i grew up around cars, i'm simply asking you this because you should take it into account when you go for a new car.

peerke
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Post by peerke » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:11 am

bonestonne wrote: I was watching Top Gear last night after replying to this, and there was a V6 twin turbo Jaguar that went 740 miles on one tank of gas, and still had enough gas to go 130 miles. Those "Super Efficient cars" like the VW Polo Bluemotion had an empty tank at the end of the same run.
I have seen that episode and the achievement of the Jaguar was astonishing. To be fair to the VW Polo the fuel tank of the Jaguar is much bigger than that of the Polo. 85 liters (about 18,9 gallon) plays 45 liters (10 gallons). This makes the Jaguar's fuel consumption work out to be 46 mpg. The Polo did 74 mpg. BTW, both are diesels.
Still the Jaguar is a very good car. Luxurious in the best English tradition, excellent ride comfort, great handling and stability. With gains in quality control promoting the car in the reliability rankings from bottom of the pit to a top ten contender it makes for a very good alternative to the Lexus luxo-barges.

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Post by NeilBlanchard » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:38 am

Hi,

You could always buy another Prius with the nice stuff -- I got 52-53mpg in a Prius in the early autumn. There is also a ne Honda Insight that is similar size to the Prius coming next year that starts around $18,500.

quikkie
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Post by quikkie » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:56 am

people talking about efficient driving always brings to mind the segment (again from TopGear) where they raced a prius around the track and had a BMW M3 following it - literally just keeping up with the Prius. The M3 (can't remember if it was the 3.2 twin turbo or the newer 4 litre version) had better MPG at the end of the lap. The whole point of the clip was to show that it doesn't matter what MPG the car is capable of - the MPG entirely depends on how you drive it and to a lesser extent where you drive it.

Personally speaking, how my car is driven can make a difference of 15MPG (imperial gallons) or to put it another way an extra 150 miles out of the tank. Treating the gas pedal as an on/off switch, power-shifting just before the rev-limiter, cruising at top speed and late braking make a vast (negative) difference to my MPG.

IMO leather ain't going to make a difference to how comfy the seats are - that's entirely down to what is underneath the leather. If the Prius seats are comfy enough then get another Prius...

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Post by xan_user » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:14 am

My local Toyota dealer has a great rental program. Maybe you could rent them each for a week.?

I have driven both lexus and prius(in-laws lexus' coupe300, awd350, es400. and my boss has a prius.). You can't really compare the ride comfort, quiet, interior and handling of a lexus to a prius . -Totally different cars from a user prospect.

I'd get the Avalon (lexus with toyota badge for le$$) or a hybrid Camry, but thats me.

fyi.
LEXUS=Luxury EXport to United States.

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Post by NeilBlanchard » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:43 am

Hi,

Camry Hybrid -- I know someone who drives one and gets ~42mpg regularly; though his wife gets ~38mpg.

peerke
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Post by peerke » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:02 am

quikkie wrote:The M3 (can't remember if it was the 3.2 twin turbo or the newer 4 litre version) had better MPG at the end of the lap.
There is no such thing as a turbocharged M3. All M-cars have high revving naturally aspirated engines. The current M3 has a 4 liter V8 engine but I think the M3 in that Top Gear episode had the 3,2 liter 6 in-line.
Maybe when efficiency demands dictate it BMW will develop a turbocharged M-car. Perhaps even a diesel.

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Post by xan_user » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:38 am

peerke wrote:
quikkie wrote:The M3 (can't remember if it was the 3.2 twin turbo or the newer 4 litre version) had better MPG at the end of the lap.
There is no such thing as a turbocharged M3. All M-cars have high revving naturally aspirated engines. The current M3 has a 4 liter V8 engine but I think the M3 in that Top Gear episode had the 3,2 liter 6 in-line.
Maybe when efficiency demands dictate it BMW will develop a turbocharged M-car. Perhaps even a diesel.
isn't the m1 available as diesel in EU?

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Post by TMM » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:00 am

peerke wrote:
quikkie wrote:The M3 (can't remember if it was the 3.2 twin turbo or the newer 4 litre version) had better MPG at the end of the lap.
There is no such thing as a turbocharged M3. All M-cars have high revving naturally aspirated engines. The current M3 has a 4 liter V8 engine but I think the M3 in that Top Gear episode had the 3,2 liter 6 in-line.
Maybe when efficiency demands dictate it BMW will develop a turbocharged M-car. Perhaps even a diesel.
top gear used the current V8 M3.

peerke
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Post by peerke » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:40 am

xan_user wrote:isn't the m1 available as diesel in EU?
There is no M1 available anymore, not since the early 80's.
You are possibly referring to the 1-series with M Sport pack. The M Sport versions have revised suspension settings but are not real M-cars. A real M-car is built by BMW Motorsport and is not just a revised model from the normal production line.
There is an M Sport diesel version.

The real M1 was the first M-car and was a mid-engine super/sportscar with 3,5 liter six in-line from the late seventies.

Are we getting off topic in the off topic section?

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Post by xan_user » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:29 am

My bad, 1 series no m...
http://www.hybridcars.com/carmakers/bmw.html

Not why can't auto makers bring (bio)diesel hybrids to market?
You know like nearly all locomotives and earth moving EQ ect.

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Post by thejamppa » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:05 am

xan_user wrote:My bad, 1 series no m...
http://www.hybridcars.com/carmakers/bmw.html

Not why can't auto makers bring (bio)diesel hybrids to market?
You know like nearly all locomotives and earth moving EQ ect.
1) Cost of the technology.

2) Automaker's aren't making their products for the beneficiary. They're making cars for monetary gains.

3) Oil company are more or less in hybrid relationship with automotive makers. While seemingly open in green and hybrid technologies, they still hinder such technology as best they can because its their intrests and intrest of their sahre holders. More oil is sold, more money they make.

4) Peoples are too greedy. Look 3),

If automotive makers would really want to think best of humanity and earth they would stop making cars and would start breeding horses and making carriages.

peerke
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Post by peerke » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:44 pm

thejamppa wrote:If automotive makers would really want to think best of humanity and earth they would stop making cars and would start breeding horses and making carriages.
The impact on the environment that would have is much greater than the impact the car has. The whole cycle from growing the food for the horses to transporting goods and people with carriages is extremely fuel inefficient.
Growing crops to produce bio-fuel is more efficient than that and even that doesn't come close to being a solution to the problem.

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Post by aristide1 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:17 pm

I've been looking at the US versions of the IS lately, if for no other reason Lexus has the smallest V6 going at 2.5 liters/200hp. The website lists 4 models:

IS250 - manual trans
IS250 - auto
IS250 - auto AWD
IS350 - auto

There is no IS250 with auto (option 2) to be found anywhere. The AWD is essentially a $6000 option that is full time AWD (fancy way of saying I can't disengage it.) and knocks about 3 mpg. By then the AWD and the IS350 have similar prices and mileage. Ironically the high output 3.5 doesn't come with a manual trans, so much for the sporty business.

The IS350 should also come in about $5000-$6000 more than a Camry SE V6 same engine and 6 speed automatic trans, but all the 2WD IS models are rear wheel drive. The 3.5 comes in at a rather chubby 3527 pounds.

Lexus also has some absurdly priced electronics and brake packages. I'd like the smaller V6 in a Corolla.

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Post by Aris » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:49 pm

MPG is irrelivent, i stated what i would likely get with the vehicles with my driving habits. I dont care what you would get, or someone in some review got, or what their rated at.

As you stated, AWD is really only good for snow, ice, off road. But how do you know when and if you would be in these conditions at any point in the future? Even if you live someplace warm and typically drive on the road only, you could at some point find yourself someplace else in the country on a trip or moved because of work or w/e. I have been there, i know how nice AWD is when you need it. I may not need it every day, but when i do need it i'm glad i have it. Its like car insurance, you dont need it 99% of the time, but you have it anyhow for that 1% of the time that you cant plan for.

I live in the US, so this only applies to vehicles available here. I dont care about what you have available to you in europe.

I chose Toyota/Lexus because of their build quality. While there are aspects of other companies i like more, like Audi and MB, id rather own something that i know isnt going to need expensive repairs after a few years of ownership. I dont like everything about them, but quality is something i have a high value for.

I've noticed over the years that car companies will typically give their leather seats more love, and make their cloth seats more cheap. While im sure this isnt the case 100% of the time, it happens enough that id rather not chance crappy seats by going with cloth. Also i like how its easier to clean leather. You spill somethin on cloth and you gotta have it carpet cleaned, you spill somethin on leather and you wipe it up.


The original reason why i made this post? It was late, i was bored, and i figured why the hell not, its not like it would hurt anything to ask.

peerke
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Post by peerke » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:35 am

Aris wrote:The original reason why i made this post? It was late, i was bored, and i figured why the hell not, its not like it would hurt anything to ask.
And you sparked off an interesting discussion and sharing of knowledge. Thank you for that. :)

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