Countdown to Christmas - 189 days to go

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:35 am

We have known for a long time that Christmas should not be on the 25th of December at all, and there was a good chance that we are not even in the right year compared to what the Church tells us.

Now we know that its actually 2010, and that its 189 days until Christmas - although it being 2010 is still arguable due to the fact that the calendars have been messed around with so much over the centuries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/chris ... claim.html

This as far as I am concerned is just rather funny, it may not even be true, but it is a far more likely and accurate date than the 25th of December.

Another amusing thing to know when winding up and mocking people who read horoscopes and actually believe them.

We are currently in the star sign of Ophicius (Nov 30th - Dec 17th).

Here is an interesting, accurate and well balanced article including the star signs as they were ~2000 years ago (which have now moved and are irrelevent today).

http://www.geocities.com/astrologyconst ... iuchus.htm
http://www.geocities.com/astrologyzodia ... zodiac.htm

Andy

mathias · Post by **mathias** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:47 am

Wait, what?

Are you saying some ancient hippie being born in June should be allowed to get in the way of Santa Claus?

As if there haven't already been enough things screwing up 'crismis for me.

Matija · Post by **Matija** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:18 am

Let me guess, this is a plot by evil Australians.

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:24 am

I don't do Christmas.
I only celebrate Solstice's and Equinox', so Im covered every four months.

This year instead of a tree, we're cutting down a Hummer to hang our old smelly sox on.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:26 am

Is it really relevant when Jesus was born? X-mas is about celebrating his birth, not his birthday, after all:) Actually celebrating 'birthday' was seen as heathen for the first few hundred years of christianity:)

Second, christianity has always incorporated any 'local' customs as it spread through europe (Eastern is taken from jewism, btw). There has always been some kind of celebration at, or around, the winter solstice and judging by it's importance (specially up here in the north) christianity would never be able to defeat this heathen tradition. So they turned into a christian tradition instead. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. (Interestingly, in this context, is that santa claus is now redoing x-mas once again).

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:42 pm

Is it really relevant when Jesus was born? X-mas is about celebrating his birth, not his birthday

Is it. Thats news to me.

Presumably then Easter is also a random and innacurate date as well.

Andy

cmthomson · Post by **cmthomson** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:42 pm

andyb wrote:Presumably then Easter is also a random and innacurate date as well.

Andy

Yep. It's based on the spring equinox "estros" festival, when all the adolescents in Greece "had a good time"...

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:49 pm

its long been known they picked DEC25th to get pagens to convert to christianity. Because before it was christmas, it was the winter solstace, the biggest holiday of the year. DEC25th has nothing to do with the birth of jesus.

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:53 pm

Aris wrote:its long been known they picked DEC25th to get pagens to convert to christianity. Because before it was christmas, it was the winter solstace, the biggest holiday of the year. DEC25th has nothing to do with the birth of jesus.

Agreed.
I thought this was common knowledge? I learned all that in elementary school.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:33 pm

xan_user wrote:
Aris wrote:its long been known they picked DEC25th to get pagens to convert to christianity. Because before it was christmas, it was the winter solstace, the biggest holiday of the year. DEC25th has nothing to do with the birth of jesus.
Agreed.
I thought this was common knowledge? I learned all that in elementary school.

Quoting myself: "We have known for a long time that Christmas should not be on the 25th of December at all"

I though that the "Church" wanted us to believe that Christmas and Easter were on the days that we celebrate because they are the correct days for those events that they endlessly preach about. I dont remember anyone in the "church" actually admitting that they picked out dates that were already celebrated so they could convert more people to their religion.

It does beg the question of why religious people havent started a movement to celebrate Christmas and Easter on the correct days rather than ones invented or taken over from other religions and events. Dont you all think that its rather weird to celebrate some event at the wrong time. It would be pretty strange if we celebrated "Guy Fawkes Night" on the 9th of May, Thanksgiving on the 2nd of March, Bastille Day on the 20th of November, so why do we persist with these nonsensical dates for Christmas and Easter. It would of course be extremely difficult to change the dates, but I dont believe that there is a good reason why religious people couldnt simply add a couple of correct dates to their calendar due to the perceived importance of such things, so at least the can pray on the right day - you never know "God" might even turn up if they did the right stuff on the right day

and it probably look like the one used in South Park.

http://media.southparkstudios.com/media ... _deity.gif

Andy

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:40 pm

...
Not as weird as celebrating a solstice or equinox on the wrong day.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:54 pm

Not as weird as celebrating a solstice or equinox on the wrong day.

Unlike Christianity the Solstices and Equinoxes are events in reality that have specific set times and dates, vs several works of fantasy and fiction that has got so out of hand it has made itself from a cult to a religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice

Andy

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:00 pm

andyb wrote:
Not as weird as celebrating a solstice or equinox on the wrong day.
Unlike Christianity the Solstices and Equinoxes are events in reality that have specific set times and dates, vs several works of fantasy and fiction that has got so out of hand it has made itself from a cult to a religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice

Andy

I wonder what holidays "Flat Earth Society" members celebrate?

croddie · Post by **croddie** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:03 pm

It's not a birthday; it's a day that the church sets to commemorate the birth of Jesus. I can't think of any church holy days that are supposed to be the exact days on which certain things happened... although I'm sure that's just a gap in my knowledge.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:53 am

cmthomson wrote:
andyb wrote:Presumably then Easter is also a random and innacurate date as well.

Andy
Yep. It's based on the spring equinox "estros" festival, when all the adolescents in Greece "had a good time"...

Oh and do ask the jews why they celebrate easter, they don't accept christ at all, after all. And judaism has been around far longer than christianity...

As for Dec25, That isn't exactly unanimous either. Lots of countries celebrates the birth of christ on Dec24. Among others Sweden and as I happen to be born Dec24..

Dont you all think that its rather weird to celebrate some event at the wrong time.

Nope, not at all. Believe me, it is impossible to celebrate birthday and x-mas at the same time. x-mas food and birthday cake doesn't mix and guests are generally confused. Instead I celebrate my birthday on my name day. Nope, I don't think it is very strange at all to celebrate some event on the wrong time

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:54 am

I wonder what holidays "Flat Earth Society" members celebrate?

Good one

Oh and do ask the jews why they celebrate easter, they don't accept christ at all, after all. And judaism has been around far longer than christianity...

I cant answer that one, I now realise I know even less about religions than I realised. Could Easter possibly be yet another festival that Christianity has stolen - in this case from Judaism.?

As for Dec25, That isn't exactly unanimous either. Lots of countries celebrates the birth of christ on Dec24. Among others Sweden

I never understood that one myself, does most of europe celebrate on the eve of Christmas day (24th) or is their Christams day a day earlier.???

Andy

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:24 am

The Armenian Church commemorates both the birth and baptism of Christ on 6th January. Orthodox Churches of Jerusalem, Russia and Serbia use the Julian calendar, so for them Christmas day is on 7th January.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:42 am

The Armenian Church commemorates both the birth and baptism of Christ on 6th January.

Am I right in thinking that the Armenian church "commemorates" JC's birth on the 6th of January because that is when they think he was born. Or is it like the rest of the Christian sects, and they have just picked a different date for such celebrations or is it due to calendar cock-up's.?

Andy

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:52 am

Just think of the confusion if Jesus H. Christ had been born on February 29th?

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:52 pm

Just think of the confusion if Jesus H. Christ had been born on February 29th?

Imagine the confusion in JC's mind when he realised his mother was actually raped by his uncle and she made up the story about him being Gods kid

Thats "probably" not true, but is so much more likely than the immaculate conception, although I will settle on some middle ground - she was a liar.

Andy

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:10 pm

In fact, no one knows exactly when Jesus was born. Nor is his birth believed to have been celebrated in the earliest days of the church. According to the Armenian church, all Christian churches used to celebrate Christ's birth on Jan. 6. But in the year 325, the Roman emperor Constantine decreed that it would be celebrated in his empire on Dec. 25.

There are various reasons given for Constantine's edict. But one oft-repeated account suggests that it was a move by the church in Rome to usurp a popular pagan holiday celebrating "the invincible or unconquered sun god" with a Christian observance of the birth of the son of God.

By the end of the 4th century, the Greek-speaking Christian world had also adopted Dec. 25, including what is today's Greek Orthodox Church. But the Armenian church held its ground. Jan. 6 endured as a date to mark both the birth and baptism of Jesus. For some orthodox churches, including the Russian Orthodox Church, Christmas is celebrated Jan. 7.

The Western church adopted Jan. 6 as the Epiphany, the time when Jesus was adored by the wise men. In the Armenian church, however, several themes are woven into the Jan. 6 observance, including Jesus' birth, baptism and the "manifestation," or epiphany, of Jesus as the son of God.

Source: http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?t ... hristmases

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:20 pm

xan_user wrote:...
Not as weird as celebrating a solstice or equinox on the wrong day.

The winter solstace celebration used to be a week long event. Its not "on the wrong day", its merely a specified day within the week long event.

They wouldnt be able to claim its the birthday of christ if it was numerous days.

And before science and historians proved christianity wrong (like they always do) the church did insist it was the birth of jesus. Not just some ceremonial day to celebrate his birth. Thats the story they concocted after they were proven to be wrong.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:17 am

And before science and historians proved christianity wrong (like they always do) the church did insist it was the birth of jesus. Not just some ceremonial day to celebrate his birth. Thats the story they concocted after they were proven to be wrong.

Thanks Aris, this is probably why I thought that people actually believed that Christmas was JC's birthday. I also suspect that if a large Poll were to be conducted most people would say that JC was born on the 25th of December.

Of course there are numerous "blunders" in Christianity's past, such as, the Earth being the centre of the universe, people of a different religion will go to hell, the fiasco about Limbo, Witches, The Inquisition, Slavery, Female persecution, hymns, inflicting Christianity on your children etc etc.

Andy

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:40 am

Here is an interesting article and survey.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7793106.stm

This is a wonderful period of time in the UK, religions are losing believers as people pick holes in the myths and legends.

Andy