A picture is worth a thousand words, so they say, so take a look at this picture that I found and posted on another forum that I frequent, under the same username, N7SC. Note the relative orientations of the truck/SUV and the Volvo wagon.
BTW, my Volvo looks almost exactly like the wagon in the picture, except that mine is white with moderately dark, black tinted windows.
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/132 ... ve_em.html
And, of course, where I live we don't get any snow.
Why I drive a Volvo
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
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NeilBlanchard
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Nick Geraedts
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When it comes to snow, I won't drive any vehicle if it doesn't have proper winter tires on it. No, all seasons are not good enough. No, I don't care if it has four-wheel drive or AWD. If you don't have snowys on, you can't stop or maneuver properly (something that has something to do with drivetrain).
Oh... and for the record, my car is a 1991 Honda Prelude, and yes, it has snow tires on.
Oh... and for the record, my car is a 1991 Honda Prelude, and yes, it has snow tires on.
My first car was a Volvo Amazon '67.
Mostly in original shape, with B20 engine. A lovely car, although my mother didn't like it. It had hydraulic power brakes and mechanical power steering (a large steering wheel).
In the army I drove Volvo 903 (nickname: "Valpen", the puppy) from the early 60ies. Not much different from the Amazon, although the plastic soft-top was a PITA in the winter. I could even teach our instructor a thing or two about it's features. I almost laughed when we were told:
-"Don't fill your own cars with the gasoline we use here. Your car's engine can't handle that low octane."
-"Why?" I replied, "When my car has the same engine model." (Actually, the 903 use the slightly smaller B18, but it's essentially the same engine.)
My parents also had other Volvos: 244, 740 and, currently V70.
The main reasons for using them: Cheap, reliable, functional. (Although the "cheap" factor doesn't really fit any more.)
Cheers
Olle
Mostly in original shape, with B20 engine. A lovely car, although my mother didn't like it. It had hydraulic power brakes and mechanical power steering (a large steering wheel).
In the army I drove Volvo 903 (nickname: "Valpen", the puppy) from the early 60ies. Not much different from the Amazon, although the plastic soft-top was a PITA in the winter. I could even teach our instructor a thing or two about it's features. I almost laughed when we were told:
-"Don't fill your own cars with the gasoline we use here. Your car's engine can't handle that low octane."
-"Why?" I replied, "When my car has the same engine model." (Actually, the 903 use the slightly smaller B18, but it's essentially the same engine.)
My parents also had other Volvos: 244, 740 and, currently V70.
The main reasons for using them: Cheap, reliable, functional. (Although the "cheap" factor doesn't really fit any more.)
Cheers
Olle
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aristide1
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Bingo! 4 real snow tires work better than 4WD and 4 all season tires in many cases simply because 4WD must still work within the laws of physics. And all season tires are like the old saying - Jack of all trades, master of none.Nick Geraedts wrote:When it comes to snow, I won't drive any vehicle if it doesn't have proper winter tires on it. No, all seasons are not good enough. No, I don't care if it has four-wheel drive or AWD. If you don't have snowys on, you can't stop or maneuver properly (something that has something to do with drivetrain).
Oh... and for the record, my car is a 1991 Honda Prelude, and yes, it has snow tires on.
My Vredesteins are wonderful. Soft, high traction, low noise. Quieter than some all seasons that I've owned. The only tire I ever purchased where I am a repeat buyer. Others may have this kind of traction, but not at this noise level.
For a high performance (handling) all season I would buy the Bridgestone RE-950, but they are no longer in production. I bought the RE-960, and frankly the lower model RE-950 was a better overall tire. I'm actually going to miss a tire.
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N7SC
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Hmm, this is interesting. Obviously, living in Florida all my life, I know nothing first-hand about snow tires. But, on numerous forums centering around Volvos, I have heard that the Nokian Hakkapeliitta line of snow tires are the best in the world. Or, perhaps, among the best in the world. Any of you have any experience with them?
Why? I probably won't stay in Florida for the rest of my life, and know that if I move far enough up north, knowledge of snow tires is going to be vital.
Neil, No, I am not implying that a Volvo can't be rolled over. If an idiot (my neighbor comes to mind) tried hard enough it could be done. I guess you just are not getting the somewhat tongue-in-cheek nature of my post. Only somewhat tongue-in-cheek, though. Pre-Ford aquisition Volvos are among the toughest and most reliable cars on the road, and they do tend to be driven by more knowledgable and cautious drivers. Volvo drivers, like me, also tend to take a lot of, presumably, good natured ribbing about our boxy, dull/boring choice in transportation. Thus, when we see a photo of a flipped SUV or truck (America's favorite vehicles), being passed by a Volvo, which is driving along like it is just another day in the park, we get giddy. On the upside, I now know how my long-suffering daughter feels when she has to explain a pun or joke to the father who she thinks is at least half Vulcan.
Live long and prosper, guys.
Why? I probably won't stay in Florida for the rest of my life, and know that if I move far enough up north, knowledge of snow tires is going to be vital.
Neil, No, I am not implying that a Volvo can't be rolled over. If an idiot (my neighbor comes to mind) tried hard enough it could be done. I guess you just are not getting the somewhat tongue-in-cheek nature of my post. Only somewhat tongue-in-cheek, though. Pre-Ford aquisition Volvos are among the toughest and most reliable cars on the road, and they do tend to be driven by more knowledgable and cautious drivers. Volvo drivers, like me, also tend to take a lot of, presumably, good natured ribbing about our boxy, dull/boring choice in transportation. Thus, when we see a photo of a flipped SUV or truck (America's favorite vehicles), being passed by a Volvo, which is driving along like it is just another day in the park, we get giddy. On the upside, I now know how my long-suffering daughter feels when she has to explain a pun or joke to the father who she thinks is at least half Vulcan.
Live long and prosper, guys.
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NeilBlanchard
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Hi,
I'm running Michelin X-Ice tires on all four corners of my xA -- great snows tires! As you say quiet, great on snow and ice -- and they actually work well on dry pavement; which is usually the downfall of full snows.
My wife's car has traction control -- and it is great, but only up to the point when the tires would start to slip. Next year, we'll get snows for it, and it'll be unstoppable.
And my diagnosis of 4-wheel drive is that you are 2X as likely to get in trouble and/or go too fast. I've been past when I am traveling faster than the speed limit -- and if it wasn't snowing, they would not have even considered passing me.
In the snow storm on Saturday, the only accident I saw was a Subaru (4WD) that did a 180 slide from the right lane over into the median strip ditch. Today, on the way into work, the only accident I saw was a Jeep Grand Cherokee, that had hopped over the snow bank and the cable guard rail saved them from plummeting down an tree-festooned embankment -- it would have been multiple rollovers; if they didn't hit a tree first.
I'm running Michelin X-Ice tires on all four corners of my xA -- great snows tires! As you say quiet, great on snow and ice -- and they actually work well on dry pavement; which is usually the downfall of full snows.
My wife's car has traction control -- and it is great, but only up to the point when the tires would start to slip. Next year, we'll get snows for it, and it'll be unstoppable.
And my diagnosis of 4-wheel drive is that you are 2X as likely to get in trouble and/or go too fast. I've been past when I am traveling faster than the speed limit -- and if it wasn't snowing, they would not have even considered passing me.
In the snow storm on Saturday, the only accident I saw was a Subaru (4WD) that did a 180 slide from the right lane over into the median strip ditch. Today, on the way into work, the only accident I saw was a Jeep Grand Cherokee, that had hopped over the snow bank and the cable guard rail saved them from plummeting down an tree-festooned embankment -- it would have been multiple rollovers; if they didn't hit a tree first.
Driving sanely keeps you on the road even in snow drifts. You might have to slow down to 30kph to be able to see where you're going but with good tires and no hurrying staying on the road isn't too hard. Just don't expect to do the trip in anything less than 50% more time than it takes in good conditions.N7SC wrote:You guys are scaring me here. Given Xan and Neil's last posts, maybe I should ditch the idea of ever moving north out of Florida. 4 ft. snow drifts, and the accident that Neil saw . . . No thanks. Even with a Volvo and heated seats. No.
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xan_user
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Your missing all the fun!N7SC wrote:You guys are scaring me here. Given Xan and Neil's last posts, maybe I should ditch the idea of ever moving north out of Florida. 4 ft. snow drifts, and the accident that Neil saw . . . No thanks. Even with a Volvo and heated seats. No.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB6IgqonuMk
Even in the UP (Upper Peninsula) of Michigan where they routinely get over 10ft of snow per year, you don't NEED 4 wheel drive, nor do you NEED a car that can drive over 4ft snow drifts. What you need are smarter drivers who don't try to plow through a 4ft snow drift on purpose, just because they think they can.N7SC wrote:You guys are scaring me here. Given Xan and Neil's last posts, maybe I should ditch the idea of ever moving north out of Florida. 4 ft. snow drifts, and the accident that Neil saw . . . No thanks. Even with a Volvo and heated seats. No.
As Neil's story relates, ever notice how the vast majority of slide-off and spinouts are 4WD vehicles (usually SUVs)? Unfortunately, 4WD combined with a bulky SUV with a lack of road feel recalibrates most people's stupid meter. People think they can do lots with an extra wheel turning, but forget that the extra wheel won't help you stop. And when that extra wheel starts losing traction, what do you do? Too many stupid people driving too fast for the conditions. At least if you're in a compact FWD sedan, you can easily feel that you don't have a lot of traction and can adjust your driving manner easily.
DISCLAIMER: I drive a Ford Escape (AWD) with Goodyear Fortera (SilentArmor) and they are great in the snow, not so much on the ice...
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xan_user
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I spent 5 years in Tahoe at '8200 ft. Nothing more amazing than opening the garage door after a storm and having it completely buried to the top.
Several times a year the road was covered in 3-5 of snow with 8-10 ft drifts. One storm alone dropped 15 feet in 4 days. Waiting for the plow could be a week or more. The berms left at intersections by snowplows in town can be over 2 feet tall and like cement ice walls. -Sorry no Volvo is going to get me to work/play in those conditions.
After a few years of bouncing through chain ruts and washboard any other oem suspension will fail. Any tahoe local will tell you if you want it to last more than a few years, buy a toyota.
Rolling past the 2wd's at the chain check point is also priceless.
In 20+ years driving in the sierras and cascades, I have only been in one fender bender (in my driveway with a neighbor that parked too close) and never gotten stuck.
{knock wood}
I have seen about the same amount of 4wds in the ditch as 2wds, really its the driver, not the car or tires that puts them there.
What I miss is in the old days CalTrans had R-3 road conditions, which meant 4wd with chains only. Now they just close the road when it gets that good, 'er i mean bad.
Photo of the old road I used to live on.
Several times a year the road was covered in 3-5 of snow with 8-10 ft drifts. One storm alone dropped 15 feet in 4 days. Waiting for the plow could be a week or more. The berms left at intersections by snowplows in town can be over 2 feet tall and like cement ice walls. -Sorry no Volvo is going to get me to work/play in those conditions.
After a few years of bouncing through chain ruts and washboard any other oem suspension will fail. Any tahoe local will tell you if you want it to last more than a few years, buy a toyota.
Rolling past the 2wd's at the chain check point is also priceless.
In 20+ years driving in the sierras and cascades, I have only been in one fender bender (in my driveway with a neighbor that parked too close) and never gotten stuck.
{knock wood}
I have seen about the same amount of 4wds in the ditch as 2wds, really its the driver, not the car or tires that puts them there.
What I miss is in the old days CalTrans had R-3 road conditions, which meant 4wd with chains only. Now they just close the road when it gets that good, 'er i mean bad.
Photo of the old road I used to live on.
Not exactly first hand experience, but at least I've read several test reports before deciding what tyres to buy for my family car.N7SC wrote:... I have heard that the Nokian Hakkapeliitta line of snow tires are the best in the world. Or, perhaps, among the best in the world. Any of you have any experience with them?
Hakkapeliitta (5) is #1 on flat ice, not really disputed. It's very popular around here, even though I'm a bit sceptic about its other qualities.
Where I live, in central Sweden, we have some of the most difficult winter roads to master when it comes to tyre design. A typical winter we face just about all sorts of roads:
- Deep loose snow.
- Packed snow.
- Wet ice.
- Dry ice.
- Bare dry asphalt.
- Bare wet and salty asphalt.
- Snow slush, with and without salt.
- Temperatures from +10 to -30 centigrade.
I prefer using a tyre that works well under all of these conditions, not just on wet, polished ice.
Based on my preferences the top contenders are (the aforementioned) Michelin X-Ice North, Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5, and (my final choice) Gislaved Nordfrost 5.
All of these are spiked tyres. There are a couple of "friction" tyres without spikes that also fight in the top. Spiked tyres are the very best option for flat ice and flat packed snow. In all other conditions the best friction tyres are same or better than the best spiked tyres. My next set of winter tyres will be the friction type.
Another issue to consider is ageing of the rubber. Driving with new, state of the art, winter tyres on an icy and snowy road feels roughly like driving on dry gravel. The very same tyres two years later will feel a lot more slippery. The fifth winter they're pretty crappy and in need of replacement, even if they still look like almost new.
Cheers
Olle
My X-Ices are actually fairly sporty winter tires. They handle better than most of the all seasons I've had, but my cheaper, older Dunlop DS-2s seem just as good in snow. On dry payment though I can feel a a second or so pause between when you turn the wheel and the Dunlops finally decide to change direction. Maybe I am just spoiled by autocross tires.
FWIW: I brought the X-Ices out ice racing the first weekend I got them, and got beat by a couple of Nokian shod cars. The other thing I learned after this is that wider winter tires actually have more grip, but the narrow ones are probably good enough for everyday driving (and they are cheaper).
FWIW: I brought the X-Ices out ice racing the first weekend I got them, and got beat by a couple of Nokian shod cars. The other thing I learned after this is that wider winter tires actually have more grip, but the narrow ones are probably good enough for everyday driving (and they are cheaper).
Gislaved Nordfrost 5 all the way!
I think they are the best winter tyres. Sweden does have the hardest conditions for tyres, and unless you live in the major cities, spike tyres is a must (You are gambling a bit elsewhise).
There is a living hell here when all the foreign truckers come up here, they have no experience whatsoever about these conditions.
I think they are the best winter tyres. Sweden does have the hardest conditions for tyres, and unless you live in the major cities, spike tyres is a must (You are gambling a bit elsewhise).
There is a living hell here when all the foreign truckers come up here, they have no experience whatsoever about these conditions.