Boys and their toys!

Our "pub" where you can post about things completely Off Topic or about non-silent PC issues.

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Kate
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Boys and their toys!

Post by Kate » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:41 pm

Hewwo!

This is off topic thead, I hope!

Since I started with the idea of building my own computer, I have discovered some fascinating things, and learned quite a lot about parts, assembly, performance, noise, and everything else.

However just the other day I noticed that a lot of people pretty much frown upon me for wanting to acquire knowledge (?) or invest in such a masculine/testosterone driven hobby.

It is very funny, never happened in this forum, but happened in a quite few others, the users see a female name and they promptly think its either a bad joke or a boy trying to pass as girl, to fool others. Again it didnt happen here, but in some forums I even got some weird replies, and in others I was completelly ignored.

It was fine, no problem at all, nobody is forced to believe that some girls (like me) have interest in building their own computer! LOL

Even my family think I am crazy, my mother says I should leave this stuff to the "guys", my brother.. well my brother think it is cool, but he says its kind strange for a girl to have interest in such things... My father.. hmm well.. he never voiced his opinion...

Today... I went to a PC parts store, in downtown, I waited inside the store for like 40 minutes, then I noticed that the vendor was pretty much giving attention to everybody that entered after me, but for some strange reason he just decided to... maybe... avoid my presence, or pretend I do not exist!

Then I decided to call the vendor and talk to him, and I finally made my purchase, and went back home.

What I would like to know is... what do you guys think when you see a girl buying computer parts? Would you be surprised if she has some or maybe even more knowledge than the vendor? Would you be able to chat with a girl about computer parts, noise damping, fans, controllers, chassis and everything computer related? How confortable would you be to talk about this things with an unknown girl?

And last question... Is that REALLY rare to see a girl who wants to learn and try to do these things?

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Post by KyonCoraeL » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:45 pm

I am not much of a typist but my simple answer is no. except for that one about being comfortable talking to a girl about this subject. It doesn't matter what race, nationality, or sex. Technology brings the world together, especially in this millennium. For example CES 2009. :)

As far as the PC parts shop. I have no clue why that happened. The only thing that comes to mind is that the customers after him were regulars that he recognized. However, I don't think this was the case.
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Post by tehfire » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:49 pm

We are creatures that try to see patterns, and one common pattern is seeing only guys interested in computer parts. That being said, I personally find it very refreshing to know that girls are interested in computing. It's not like there's a "man stamp" placed on every computer part, but it seems that it's expected that women are not into computers.

I know a few girls that really like watching football, but I always find myself surprised when I see it. I guess computing is a more extreme form of this. I try not to act on hasty generalizations, so I try not to act on the assumption that girls hate computers.

When I read any Philosophy papers, I find myself reading it expecting it to be a guy, and to my surprise (and delight) more often than one would expect I find that the author is a girl. This is the same when I read forums: I assume that the author is a girl. It's nice to know that this isn't a completely homogeneric forum :)

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Post by lm » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:35 am

I guess equality of genders is further here in Finland than around where you live, where ever that is. Still, in my university, almost all students in hard computer sciences are guys.

I'm not completely antisocial, but I still don't really know any girls that are interested in computers, on the same level of interest many of my male friends share.

However just plain fans and stuff is not very interesting to me either, just a plain necessity for building a computer as those premade solutions suck. Computer sciences are the interesting stuff: How cpus, operating systems, etc operate. If that sounds cool, apply for CS when university is relevant for you.

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Re: Boys and their toys!

Post by xan_user » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:49 am

Kate wrote:
And last question... Is that REALLY rare to see a girl who wants to learn and try to do these things?
Regrettably, Yes.

I had a hard time convincing my daughter she could figure out how to un-hook our wii so we could bring it to grandmas. After I encouraged her too figure it out, she ha d no problems- even hooking it up later! :D Shes 10, my son had no fear of similar things at 5

I think deep down most guys dont want to encourage girls in technology because they're scared they might accel and end up pwning the guys in the long run.

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Re: Boys and their toys!

Post by Matija » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:47 am

Kate wrote:What I would like to know is... what do you guys think when you see a girl buying computer parts? Would you be surprised if she has some or maybe even more knowledge than the vendor? Would you be able to chat with a girl about computer parts, noise damping, fans, controllers, chassis and everything computer related? How confortable would you be to talk about this things with an unknown girl?
What do you girls think when you see a guy buying makeup? Would you be surprised if he has some or maybe even more knowledge than the vendor? Would you be able to chat with a guy about eyeliners, blushers, face powder, foundations, mascaras, lipsticks, concealers and everything makeup-related? How comfortable would you be to talk about these things with an unknown guy?

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Post by Charuto » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:54 am

One time at my local Fry's there was a cute female employee helping a guy in the CPU/Motherboard/etc section. I overheard some of the things they were saying and it was obvious that:

1. She knew what she was talking about.

2. He was smitten.

Not only was it the only time I ever saw a girl know what she was talking about concerning computers, it was the first time I saw a Fry's employee know what they were talking about concerning computers. jk... kind of.

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Re: Boys and their toys!

Post by lm » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:17 am

xan_user wrote: I had a hard time convincing my daughter she could figure out how to un-hook our wii so we could bring it to grandmas. After I encouraged her too figure it out, she ha d no problems- even hooking it up later! :D Shes 10, my son had no fear of similar things at 5
Would you say they were born with these traits or learned to be like that?

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Re: Boys and their toys!

Post by Ralf Hutter » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:37 am

Matija wrote: What do you girls think when you see a guy buying makeup? Would you be surprised if he has some or maybe even more knowledge than the vendor? Would you be able to chat with a guy about eyeliners, blushers, face powder, foundations, mascaras, lipsticks, concealers and everything makeup-related? How comfortable would you be to talk about these things with an unknown guy?
You'd better be comfortable talking to a guy if you ever want to shop at the MAC counter. :)
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Post by vertigo » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:30 am

When I studied Information Technology, there were quite a few ladies there (about 1/6). Computers are so pervasive nowadays that is not at all surprising to all types of people involved.

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Post by Kate » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:36 am

Tehfire,

maybe you are correct! However, what i think is most probably girls who go to this places are in many cases girlfriends or a costumer, thats why maybe the vendor didnt care for me.

there is one thing i do not like watching is football, I watch sometimes soccer, but I am not a big fan either!

Lm,

I am Canadian, living in Brazil. Long sotry... I study medicine, however my interest in computers have grown quite a lot recently, maybe not enough to change majors, but I do want to learn about new things, I believe life is full of new things, and lots of things to learn. I still believe that the more we get to learn the better. Learning new things, make it possible for us to talk with different people and communities.

Communication is the key, and the only way to be able to talk with everybody, every comunity is to learn new things!

Xan_user,

LOL i do not know how to unlock my wii... And I do play it very often!

Matija,

I am japanese descendant, in Japan we see guys wearing makeup and purses, for me I believe people are free, if they want to use moisturizers for better skin, foundations to hire imperfections, its not a problem.

Wearing cosmetics, clothes or anything that is labelled "uni-gender" will not make the boys become effeminate, or less masculine.

Its the society who tends to label people for doing things they consider male or female hobbies...

Charuto,

Back home in Canada... At Futureshop there are many women working there... You see, somehow working as a seller is allowed in the computer field, however most of the costumers think the male knows better! Maybe I am wrong, but thats the feeling I get.

Ralf Hutter,

MAC is probably one of the Best makeup brands!

Vertigo,

I would study IT I think its a great field, with lots of things to learn. I didnt persuade the IT study/career because society rarely encourage girls to study that field.

I do not regret studying medicine, tho! (I am a student still, resident student)

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Post by xan_user » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:40 am

Kate wrote:
there is one thing i do not like watching is football, I watch sometimes soccer, but I am not a big fan either!
This dude agrees.

It superbowl sunday here, great day to go to the beach or the snow. no crowds!

I much rather watch my daughter play soccer than anything on TV anyway.

My kids were encouraged to not be afraid of technology and I have always been a tinkerer since my earliest memories.
I had a great time building a lego PC with them 5 years ago, so they have a basic understanding on building a PC.

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Post by andyb » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:24 am

Today... I went to a PC parts store, in downtown, I waited inside the store for like 40 minutes, then I noticed that the vendor was pretty much giving attention to everybody that entered after me, but for some strange reason he just decided to... maybe... avoid my presence, or pretend I do not exist!
I can only hope that the answer was a really simple case of mistaken identity, he mistook you for someone hanging around waiting for her boyfriend/husband/girlriend/wife who was bored and didnt want to be there. I have seen it loads of times in tech shops as well as men looking bored in ladies clothes shops.

Just like Matija said.
What do you girls think when you see a guy buying makeup? Would you be surprised if he has some or maybe even more knowledge than the vendor? Would you be able to chat with a guy about eyeliners, blushers, face powder, foundations, mascaras, lipsticks, concealers and everything makeup-related? How comfortable would you be to talk about these things with an unknown guy?
The other option is that the guy is a twat, which is probable.


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Post by jhhoffma » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:40 am

I blame G4 and Asia Carrera.

They make it seem that the only girls who are interested in PC's or gaming are "gadget-skanks" that need to be dumb, hot actresses (or pornstars) in front of a tele-prompter, that will "do you" if you beat the next level on "INSANE" mode.

Most females in IT look and sound like the girls on CNET, who are very smart, just aren't that great in front of a camera.
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Post by xan_user » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:46 am

jhhoffma wrote:I blame G4 and Asia Carrera.

They make it seem that the only girls who are interested in PC's or gaming are "gadget-skanks" that need to be dumb, hot actresses (or pornstars) in front of a tele-prompter, that will "do you" if you beat the next level on "INSANE" mode.

Most females in IT look and sound like the girls on CNET, who are very smart, just aren't that great in front of a camera.
agreed but,they're not all just skanks...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Webb
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Post by Kate » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Hi Xan_user,

Thats great to hear that you encourage your daughter to not be afraid of technology, usually for many women (at least my generation) we are pretty much afraid of it. Not really afraid, but we tend to believe it is not really lady like. I still remember my dad's face when I asked him a GameBoy as a Bday gift when I was young.

Industry never made it easy for girls too, GameBoy is a perfect example that the platform was originally intended for mainly boys, however girls have a different connection with their games, and somehow girls buy a lot more portables than console games, thats why they changed the appel, induced girly colours, and in the latest generations (Nintendo DS, PSP) we can clearly see the creation of ginder specific games, colours, acessories and everything else.

Nintendo seems to be "up par" with this hence the success of Wii among girls, and nintendogs for Nintendo Ds.

The PC gaming is a bit different tho, most games are FPS games, which (at least i think) do not attract many girls, however if you see MMORPG games, like Everquest, Everquest II, Final Fantasy XI, there is a HUGE female population playing this games daily.

Anyways... Congratulations! We need more dads like you, encourage girls to keep in touch with technology! :)


Andryb,

I agree with the 1st comment, I do believe that the guy thought I was someone's else girlfriend. I thought of that too! :)


Jhhoffma,

LOL.. Nobody has to look great in front of a camera, as long as the person knows what he/she is talking and is able to discuss with clarity, it is fine.

Women do not expect every men that show up on TV, to look like Tom Cruise.... (It would surely be great tho)... But hey, look at Steve Jobs, Wozniack, Bill Gates and the new "Palmer" guy, they are far from being attractive, but they are suberbly smart, they have the power to talk, negociate, create and make money!

Somehow society expect women to be always look nice, always be submissive, most unmarried man, think women look nice 24/7, but they forget that we also need to put on daily baisis clothing and be without make up when not working to do the house chores like cleaning, cooking, and taking care of children!

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Post by xan_user » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:51 am

Kate wrote: Nintendo seems to be "up par" with this hence the success of Wii among girls, and nintendogs for Nintendo Ds.

The PC gaming is a bit different tho, most games are FPS games, which (at least i think) do not attract many girls, however if you see MMORPG games, like Everquest, Everquest II, Final Fantasy XI, there is a HUGE female population playing this games daily.
Shes already worn out the touch screen on her first DS!

I much rather give Nintendo my money due to their focus on games other than FPS.

I've never been into any FPS, violence never appeals to me. How people can enjoy violence as a form of entertainment I will never understand! racing games are whole other story tho. Never checked out too many fantasy games as i know i would get sucked in way too much.

My son can occasionally beat me racing. :oops:

He has an assortment of old pc fans that he likes to hook up to a small solar panel and check out differences in parallel ans series wiring. its so much fun to watch their gears turning in their heads!

One thing I dont do is push technology on the kids tho- Moderation is key.

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Post by Kate » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:00 pm

Xan_user,

I still have my pink ds, sometimes i take it with me in my purse.

I dont know if its the violence embebded in this games, but for some reason I dont like, I dont have that hunting, killing spirit....

Racing games... hmm.. As i said in another thread... I would like to try simulation games (including racing), however not a RACING game, but a driving game, as perfect as it can be, you know?

Having you son to beat you its ok, we grow children to be better than us, its nice to see that our kids can be better than us, boy like to be stronger than their dads, more intelligent, and better in other skills... Girls a little bit different tho, girls have a very very different relationship with the dad, well... this is not psychology class... LOL

Yes moderation is the key! :)

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Post by ACook » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:16 pm

Gender roles are imprinted in most societies from a very early age, just see the blue/pink baby stuff.

Despite the facts that girls once encouraged to do maths and other techy stuff actually do better than boys, peer pressuer and media imagery continues to define the gender roles.

there's a fair bit of documentaries about this, what immediately comes to mind is http://www.mediaed.org/cgi-bin/commerce ... on&key=206

(don't balk at the price, that's for public showing. pt3 is available 'elsewhere')


There are large communities with a strong female input, most tend to group around artistic sites, far fewer on techy sites. I don't think the makeup comparison is fair, guys generally do not wear makeup, so are not expected to know about it. Girls generalyl do use the technology, so there's a different reason why they generally are not interested in it beyond having it work.
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Post by ACook » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:20 pm

Kate wrote:we grow children to be better than us
Sprinkle some more water on little Kate, dear, I think she's wilting...
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Post by Kate » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:12 pm

ACook,

nothing wrong with gender roles!

We all have a role in the world, and we should follow our roles. But society tends to exagerate a bit the blue/pink stuff as you mentioned is ridiculous and it is more evident in the western society. In asia Pink is a colour like any other...

Peer pressure, media and education put a lot of pressure in boys and girls, boys are expected to behave in a certain way as girls are expected to behave in another way, but the thing is... There isnt really a parameter that establishes a border line between the two different behaviour. Its not wrong for a girl to like technology, and it is also not wrong for a boy to have interest in hair cutting for example...

The make-up is seem as 100% female for most people in the western world, but its not 100% female in Asia, for example... Most actors and news anchors have to wear make up and it doesnt make them feminine.

I really appreciate the link you posted, it is very nice.

I am not in position to defend "womanhood", I am just a regular person, who is part of a society, and sometimes have a very hard and difficult time understanding people behaviour.

:)


Thank you for the "little Kate", I wish i was still a Highschool student, wearing my uniforms and having nothing to worry about my future!

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Post by jhhoffma » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:08 am

Kate wrote:Industry never made it easy for girls too, GameBoy is a perfect example that the platform was originally intended for mainly boys, however girls have a different connection with their games, and somehow girls buy a lot more portables than console games, thats why they changed the appel, induced girly colours, and in the latest generations (Nintendo DS, PSP) we can clearly see the creation of ginder specific games, colours, acessories and everything else.
That's funny, while I was watching the Super Bowl with my buddy, my wife busted out her GameBoy (I never had one) and went to town on Tetris and SML. She'll always tell me when she gets it out, how she bought it herself!!
Women do not expect every men that show up on TV, to look like Tom Cruise.... (It would surely be great tho)... But hey, look at Steve Jobs, Wozniack, Bill Gates and the new "Palmer" guy, they are far from being attractive, but they are suberbly smart, they have the power to talk, negociate, create and make money!
Exactly my point!! And for the record, I do make an exception for Morgan Webb as she was on TechTV before it became G4 and she's actually done web design.
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Post by Kate » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:06 am

Jhhoffma,

See! I told you.. Girls have a different relationship with games, Nintendo and others who invested in portables know that women buy more portables than consoles.

I guess when they launched GameBoy, nintendo never thought that girls would have that kind of interest.

A lot of women have nintendo games, including myself, I has a pink DS and a nintendo wii.

There are a lot of nice women out there, who might not look great, but are smart and intelligent to present a tech tv show!

So yes, I agree with you!

Its a pitty that these changes took so long to happen...

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Re: Boys and their toys!

Post by mathias » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Kate wrote: However just the other day I noticed that a lot of people pretty much frown upon me for wanting to acquire knowledge (?) or invest in such a masculine/testosterone driven hobby.
Oh, I wouldn't say it's all that masculine a hobby.

To illustrate in a sort of round about way, here's what I look like...

<removed>

And knowing what's going on inside your computer or being competent at managing it really isn't directly comparable to makeup. If you need to look at an equivalent female gender role type thing, concerning yourself about what you eat would be a lot closer.

Edit: Arrgh, that's a horrible picture...
Image
Last edited by mathias on Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by andyb » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:38 pm

Well Mathias, all I can say is that its a pleasure to see you 8) and that wallpaper is awful :x


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Post by thejamppa » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:47 pm

Most geeks I know personally *including me* well, have hard times to approach female. So I think also, if seller is enthusiast, then he might be more confident approaching other men instead women.

Computer's is still very much male dominant section, especially in DIY-parts and its not really a cliché about girls and geeks. I see that practically everyday.

When it comes to women, I am coward, yes. I still rather would be disarming explosives than would actually have ever again need to ask woman on a date again.

Yes, the one time I did, actually paid off and we're still seeing each others after few years but still...
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Post by Kate » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:28 pm

Hello Mathias,

Well in a way you are very correct! However, there are many "fields" that are male dominant, computer assembly and DIY computer are a few examples. The society never expect us to be an engineer, for example, I know that are many women out there who really excel in their fields, but we have to agree that the society is not as open as it is for the male population.

I wasnt comparing make-up with computers, it was just an example given by another user, that I thought I would use the same "example" to prove my point! :)

Since you posted a photo of you, here is "me":

Image

Thejamppa,

I guess most males are, the reason I will never know.. What is funny is that men always change their bevahiour when they are closer to women, they change their way to talk, to act, its just funny!

I remember discussing in HighSchool a long long time ago, about geeks and jocks, I always defended the geeks, because the geeks rule the world! LOL... If we look around everybody who is capable of making money and suceeding in their career are the "tinkers" and people who are REALLY well prepared and studied...

:)

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Post by mcoleg » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:41 pm

this is called an "approach anxiety". ei - a fear of talking to a girl. males have it, females don't so, Kate, you can't really relate.

doesn't matter if it's "geeks and jocks", even the most confident (or clueless :P) males have it.
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Post by mathias » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:45 pm

lm wrote:Still, in my university, almost all students in hard computer sciences are guys.
vertigo wrote:When I studied Information Technology, there were quite a few ladies there (about 1/6).
That's very reminiscent of how almost everyone in linguistics, 5/6 at the very least, is female.
jhhoffma wrote:That's funny, while I was watching the Super Bowl with my buddy, my wife busted out her GameBoy (I never had one) and went to town on Tetris and SML. She'll always tell me when she gets it out, how she bought it herself!!
Well... tetris isn't really a normal game though. Hey, anyone else ever try playing two tetris games at once?
Kate wrote:I wasnt comparing make-up with computers, it was just an example given by another user, that I thought I would use the same "example" to prove my point! :)
Sorry, I wasn't trying to prove you wrong or anything... what I was meaning to get at was that I think messing around with computers and messing around with food have a lot in common. And for both of those, there's more angles of approaching the activity that are traditionally more masculine and more feminine, ie. for computers, overclocking, letting it get really noisy and making it really flashy would normally be seen as the over the top male approach, and with food, cooking healthily could be seen as the more female approach - but this is definitely not a neatly symmetrical comparison.

And I would say that makeup would parallel kind of neatly with obsessing with cars.
andyb wrote:Well Mathias, all I can say is that its a pleasure to see you 8) and that wallpaper is awful :x
I have been considering getting it replaced, but I'm not very enthusiastic about inhaling paint fumes for a week. I would like to use wood veneer instead of wallpaper, or maybe something fire resistant like aluminum(I don't listen to radio anyway), but ... I have no clue what that would involve - I know very little about home renovation.

andyb
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Post by andyb » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:00 pm

I have been considering getting it replaced, but I'm not very enthusiastic about inhaling paint fumes for a week.
Yes, buy a paint remover that uses steam.!!!!!!



Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
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