SPCR

Here is where you need to put the info.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_compla ... ints_form/

Please feel free to complain about this disgraceful advertisment stating clearly that God DOES exist. As much as anything else I want people to stack up as many complaints about this false advertising in protest of the God-fearers who complained about the "God PROBABLY does not exist" adverts. My main problem with these pro-god adverts are simply that they clearly state that god DOES exist, wheras the "British Humanist Society'" adverts used the words "probably doesn not exist".

If you have no idea of what I am talking about have a look here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7875457.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/fe ... n-response

I would really love to see those adverts get banned due to a lack of proof of what they are trying to sell/make people aware of.

Just for a laugh, I have just looked a "The Christian Party's" website, they are a really scummy bunch, they actually have a donation button on every page set to a whopping £200 - these people are disgusting, they are simply preying on people who are not mentally astute who they can convince to part with their money.


Andy

Wow, that's incredible, just by imitating their critics, they manage to jump from one baseless conclusion to another and then again to yet another.

Its better to ignore whole thing. Faith is private matter or at least should be. Conflict between religions and between believes ( like communism vs democratism i.e. cold war etc ) start because peoples simply cannot respect others views and think they are correct and not other person...

Yoda was right when he said Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering... Or something like that. Its very true when it comes these matters.

Yep, there is a lot of irony there. The original theres "probably no god" advert was in itself a complaint about religious nuts constantly trying to recruit people with adverts all over the place. So now religious nuts are campaining on busses that there is a god, due to to a previous campaign about the amount of pressure put on non-religious people by religious people. Its an utterly ridiculous concept, but here we are. As I said, my main aim is to get more complaints about the "pro god" adverts, and then get their adverts banned because they break the advertising code. The ASA dont actually investigate adverts unless there are complaints, so if we complain, then they will investigate - thats the procedure.


Andy

Its better to ignore whole thing. Faith is private matter or at least should be. Conflict between religions and betwen believes ( like communism vs democratism i.e. cold war etc ) start because peoples simply cannot respect others views and think they are correct and not other person...

Yes, but there are far more religious fanatics than non-religious fanatics, so I will quote Winston as an aid to my point about religious people trying to force their beliefs down peoples throats.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."


Andy

andyb wrote:Yep, there is a lot of irony there. The original theres "probably no god" advert was in itself a complaint about religious nuts constantly trying to recruit people with adverts all over the place. So now religious nuts are campaining on busses that there is a god, due to to a previous campaign about the amount of pressure put on non-religious people by religious people. Its an utterly ridiculous concept, but here we are. As I said, my main aim is to get more complaints about the "pro god" adverts, and then get their adverts banned because they break the advertising code. The ASA dont actually investigate adverts unless there are complaints, so if we complain, then they will investigate - thats the procedure.


Andy

True, however religious nuts are no different from atheists nuts who began whole thing for deliberate provoking. I see personally whole thing nothing more than two 3 year old fighting over a sandcakes... Peoples just hate being wrong so they do everything to prove they're right. Basicly this is nothing more but ego fight between religious peoples and atheist peoples... And peoples wonder why there are wars...

thejamppa wrote:...

Well, in practice that really doesn't work. Okay fear is bad. So then, perhaps you'd agree that "you have nothing to fear but fear itself"? Well then, if that's so, doesn't that mean that you should be scared of what panicking people will do because they see you as a threat?

Sweeping truisms about fear are senseless. There are a lot of things to worry about.

And therefor, we sure as fuck do not need to make up imaginary ones to distract and overwhelm us.

True, however religious nuts are no different from atheists nuts who began whole thing for deliberate provoking. I see personally whole thing nothing more than two 3 year old fighting over a sandcakes... Peoples just hate being wrong so they do everything to prove they're right. Basicly this is nothing more but ego fight between religious peoples and atheist peoples... And peoples wonder why there are wars...

That is only true if being an open minded person is classified a new religion.

I dont call myself an athiest for any reason other than its much easier to say than "I believe in things that are explained to me in a logical way, that has weighed the possibilities in both hands and has concluded that one of these theories are correct, to a person who is open minded and capable of their own thoughts, who then chooses with the evidance at hand that its probably true and as such I will believe that "theory" until a something better comes along". Athiest is just so much easier to say even if it doesnt come quite as close to my real meaning

From experience, I would have to say that the vast majority of people who call themselves "athiest" are actually simply not bothered about religions at all, and have no need for such bullshit in their lives. Thats not to say that they dont believe that higher beings dont exist (like me, there is every chance), but until they see, hear, communicate with those higher beings, there really is no belief there - logic says that God does not exist, so everyone who has not had religion forced upon them from a young age has a logical choice and will usually chose to not believe in god.


Andy

And as to whether faith is a private matter or not, I don't really feel the need to take a stance on that.

However, the world does not treat faith as a private matter. And the way the world fails to treat faith as a private matter, that is not a private matter.

thejamppa wrote:True, however religious nuts are no different from atheists...

Yes they are. Religious nuts aren't even the same as each other, an odinist is different from a christian is different from a muslim, etc.

thejamppa wrote:... nuts who began whole thing for deliberate provoking.

Okay, so you think atheists crossed some sort of line. Well, it's the religion nuts that drew that line in the first place. Just because "infidels" have thicker skins, why should that let cultists be freely obnoxious and freak out when a small bit of what they do is reciprocated?

Whats next the earth is Flat ?

Tobacco smoke is good for pregnant mothers?

Drink and drive, you'll do fine?

Bush and Blair have a soul?


"Light your faith and you can light the world,
set fire to the church of your choice." - National Lampoon

Whats next the earth is Flat ?

Tobacco smoke is good for pregnant mothers?

Drink and drive, you'll do fine?

Bush and Blair have a soul?


"Light your faith and you can light the world,
set fire to the church of your choice." - National Lampoon

Odd post....... So odd, I dont actually know which viewpoint you are hailing from.


Andy

andyb wrote:

Whats next the earth is Flat ?

Tobacco smoke is good for pregnant mothers?

Drink and drive, you'll do fine?

Bush and Blair have a soul?


"Light your faith and you can light the world,
set fire to the church of your choice." - National Lampoon

Odd post....... So odd, I dont actually know which viewpoint you are hailing from.


Andy

mathias wrote:And as to whether faith is a private matter or not, I don't really feel the need to take a stance on that.

However, the world does not treat faith as a private matter. And the way the world fails to treat faith as a private matter, that is not a private matter.

thejamppa wrote:True, however religious nuts are no different from atheists...

Yes they are. Religious nuts aren't even the same as each other, an odinist is different from a christian is different from a muslim, etc.

thejamppa wrote:... nuts who began whole thing for deliberate provoking.

Okay, so you think atheists crossed some sort of line. Well, it's the religion nuts that drew that line in the first place. Just because "infidels" have thicker skins, why should that let cultists be freely obnoxious and freak out when a small bit of what they do is reciprocated?

To me extremist is extremist. All nut cases are basicly the same, even their reasons might vary, result is the same. What Khmer Rogues did in the name of the Communist Utopia in Cambodia was no different from the what Nazi's did in concentration camp or what Crusaders did in Jerusalem when it fell: Cold blood massacres of fellow human being, just because they were slightly different or believed in different values. Generilization is rhetorics of simpletons, yes I know... My point is, no matter your reasons, if you don't respect others or their believes, result will end in misery. It always have and it always will.

Understanding other peoples believes and respecting them is corner stone of viable and strong society.

thejamppa wrote:To me extremist is extremist. All nut cases are basicly the same, even their reasons might vary, result is the same. What Khmer Rogues did in the name of the Communist Utopia in Cambodia was no different from the what Nazi's did in concentration camp or what Crusaders did in Jerusalem when it fell: Cold blood massacres of fellow human being, just because they were slightly different or believed in different values. Generilization is rhetorics of simpletons, yes I know... My point is, no matter your reasons, if you don't respect others or their believes, result will end in misery. It always have and it always will.

Understanding other peoples believes and respecting them is corner stone of viable and strong society.

And just what makes you feel so right about comparing run of the mill cause-enthusiasts to mass murders?

It's easy to preach "a fanatic is a fanatic", but, honestly, would you really not care whether someone was willing to die for what they believe in ... or whether they were willing to kill you for what they believe?

Respecting other people's beliefs in the way you're asking for such a thing to be implemented can not work and does not make sense. You want atheists to walk on eggshells when dealing with theists, in doing so you show clear disdain for letting atheists' belief that religion is a load of crap. And you don't seem to mind religion's core trait of not respecting other people's beliefs one bit.

The whole idea of respecting people's beliefs is, all other aspects of it aside, a concept prone to collapsing in on itself in a big mess of recursion. And you're supporting the notion that this goal to be adhered to to a fanatic degree.

Forgive me, im in an obtuse mood to day.

Does this help any?

xan_user wrote: Whats next?

The earth is Flat.

Tobacco smoke is good for pregnant mothers.

Drink and drive, you'll do fine.

Bush and Blair have a soul.

God is real.

It all means the same to me.

God is real.

I certainly dont want to get into the age old, prove he/she/it is, prove he/she/it isnt routine because thats just boring.

What I would like to know your opinion on though is, whether the original bus adverts in London caused you offense "god probably doesnt exist", and also whether you think that I should/should not be offended by the London bus adverts "There definitely is a God".


Andy

But "god is real" is only thing that doesn't make sense.

This add goes way above and beyond that:

there is a god => you should take it for granted that it's our god => you should be comforted by the notion that there is a god that wants to torture you for eternity for not believing in him without any evidence or for failing to abide by any of his other rules.

IMO, this is working out not too badly, that christian group reacted by saying something so ridiculously stupid, that might even do a lot more against religion than the add it's a response to. But then, maybe people are too impressionable and naive.

In 40 years (or less) England will be a predominantly Muslim nation, so I find it hilarious that the OP is complaining about bus advertisements.

Perhaps the efforts of the secularists should be directed elsewhere.

there is a god => you should take it for granted that it's our god => you should be comforted by the notion that there is a god that wants to torture you for eternity for not believing in him without any evidence or for failing to abide by any of his other rules.

IMO, this is working out not too badly, that christian group reacted by saying something so ridiculously stupid, that might even do a lot more against religion than the add it's a response to. But then, maybe people are too impressionable and naive.

This is why a large part of western culture does not have a lot of respect for the Islamic religion, it has the tendancy to take it to the next level, and actually torture you while you are still alive, but then again though we are constantly told "its only extremists".

Religions are doomed. < that little dot should actually read "FULL STOP", as education has imporoved religion and religious people have diminished, hopefully this is yet another nail in Christianity's coffin, hammered in by a group of religious nutcases who only want your money (scientology is a cult for that very reason).


Andy

andyb wrote:

God is real.

I certainly dont want to get into the age old, prove he/she/it is, prove he/she/it isnt routine because thats just boring.

What I would like to know your opinion on though is, whether the original bus adverts in London caused you offense "god probably doesnt exist", and also whether you think that I should/should not be offended by the London bus adverts "There definitely is a God".


Andy

Both would offend me equally. Much in the same way that "the earth is probably flat" and " the earth is flat" would.


Now what id like to see is more like...
"God, just a figment of your imagination."
"Jesus is dead, find a new hero."
and the National lampoon quote I posted earlier.

Seems only fair that all sides be able to represent their views.

Thanks xan_user, for that open and honest answer.

In 40 years (or less) England will be a predominantly Muslim nation, so I find it hilarious that the OP is complaining about bus advertisements.

Perhaps the efforts of the secularists should be directed elsewhere.

I doubt it, as many religious people seem to think that "not being religious" is in itself a religion, then "not being religious" will be the predominiant erm..... religion, then chances are Muslims will be second, simply because most muslims in the UK have moved here from foreign countries where religion is king - rather than knowlege, soon after (decades) the muslims will also become non-believers and go to hell (but whose hell.?).


Andy

"Jesus is dead, find a new hero."

My favourite is:

"Jesus is coming, pass the kleenex".

Another few:

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/2 ... athei.html


Andy

Oh, Look, Honey Another Pro-lifer For War

oh man, perfect.

andyb wrote:What I would like to know your opinion on though is, whether the original bus adverts in London caused you offense "god probably doesnt exist", and also whether you think that I should/should not be offended by the London bus adverts "There definitely is a God".

Only religious people could be offended by ads like these.
"Atheists" (broad definition) would read the second ad and then just walk on. I certainly would.

I think of myself as an "atheist", but I've been baptised, I don't feel offended by either ad, but I feel the second ad is a bold statement which obviously can never be proven.
Proof however is not the real issue here. Religion is belief, not proof. If this shows up at ASA, chances are the ad will be banned (by logic) but maybe it won't (by culture).
Because atheism isn't considered a religion (and rightly so - just as black isn't a colour but the absence of it), people tend to "respect" one's religion as opposed to respect one's non-religion.

The second ad looks to me as an ad hoc reply without creativity. A bit sad, really.

andyb wrote:This is why a large part of western culture does not have a lot of respect for the Islamic religion, it has the tendancy to take it to the next level, and actually torture you while you are still alive, but then again though we are constantly told "its only extremists".

Religions are doomed. < that little dot should actually read "FULL STOP", as education has imporoved religion and religious people have diminished, hopefully this is yet another nail in Christianity's coffin, hammered in by a group of religious nutcases who only want your money (scientology is a cult for that very reason).

That's a little too easy. The Islam, as practiced by millions, is not *that* much different from Christian religion. I've been in Morocco for 3 months about 10 years ago, and people are just trying to do good. I try too, but I don't need a religion to be able to tell what is and isn't.
If people gain strength or find support in religion, who am I to say they are wrong? What do I gain from trying to prove their religion is a house of cards? Therefor, I don't feel offended by either ad.

Religions are doomed... maybe Christian church is diminishing, but Islam is surely progressing. Education has little effect on what people believe, religion has more to do with environment. Christianity is so much rooted in Western culture, I can't think of how life would be if this religion never existed.
Religion, science, and politics all happen to exist next to eachother just nicely... You can have a prime minister who is quite intelligent, knows of science, and also is a very firm believer. Maybe that is the ultimate in achieving harmony.

Heh... amazed how much I wrote here, for the topic is not hot to me at all.
Both ads are bad anyway: the first won't make religious people drop their religion, the second won't make atheists going to church.

I suggest prayer.

Religions are doomed... maybe Christian church is diminishing, but Islam is surely progressing.

Define progression.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7832715.stm

Education has little effect on what people believe

That is so far from the truth my stomach hurts from the laughing.

religion has more to do with environment.

Where we live has more to do with the environment, religion and environment - that I cant get my head around.

Christianity is so much rooted in Western culture, I can't think of how life would be if this religion never existed.

Another religion would be dominant instead, the average person might be worshipping "Thor" instead. But this is a moot point, as we are already here at this moment in time and we cant go back, there really isnt much point considering it.

Religion, science, and politics all happen to exist next to eachother just nicely... You can have a prime minister who is quite intelligent, knows of science, and also is a very firm believer. Maybe that is the ultimate in achieving harmony.

Some countries fare much better than others. Countries whose populous is highly religious are also less scientific because the religion clouds peoples minds. You only have to look at abortion and religion, whether girls are allowed to be schooled and religion, whether a politicians views dont match with the pope's and whether they get into office, etc etc

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7767192.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3658172.stm

Both ads are bad anyway: the first won't make religious people drop their religion, the second won't make atheists going to church.

I agree, but I for one am fed up with religious people moaning and complaining about this and that, but you never hear non-religious people complaining about the exact opposite. Now I am, and I hope everyone else does as well - this is in itself a perfect example of how religion is putting pressure on people, you could argue that it boils down to Politics.

I suggest prayer.

Very funny, that will solve all of the worlds problems, just like it has for the last few thousand years without murder, famine, war and strife, oh wait, it didnt did it I have really got to get my head around just how effective prayer is in fixing problems.


Andy

Seems pretty easy to accept that most of the mass genocides have been the result of one religion or another. By sheer historical numbers alone, Religion kills.- It really is that simple.

The bus add thing only bothers me cause if i wanted to put up "my" sign they wouldn't let me.

Im kinda sick of how atheist's get the short end of the stick. Why can't my group get the same tax breaks as the other churches do?

We dont get a special holiday and rub our beliefs (or lack of) in to everyones faces- least i don't. Yet every "chist-mass " I get a stiff attitude for saying happy holidays cause im not paying homage some bastard child that been dead 2000 year ? WTF is that? If I say happy solstice, they go ballistic. at least around here anyway. And I thought "Jesus is love.":x
They stole the God Damned pagan holiday in the first place and now they have the audacity to guilt trip me about a dead guy?

Peoples choice to have spirituality in their life should not effect any one else negatively, period. We shouldn't even ever need to here about it.
-Go sit in your closet and pray to your God, leave the rest of us be.

If not then be ready to accept pentagrams and goats heads on bus adds too!

duplicate.

Is this one of those threads that is supposed to go 20 pages long until everyone gets tired of it?

I am a former atheist. But even when I was an atheist, I could easily see that atheists who organized into groups and tried to spread their message and convert others to atheism were: religious! I think people claiming to be atheists and collecting money as a group to advertise on a bus are trying to promote atheism as a religion.

The other advertisement doesn't seem to make sense either. I would call it non-atheist since I don't think it is Christian. It states "There definitely is a god." and says to "join the Christian party." A god? They won't name him? This sounds like they are trying to promote some universal god. This is a party like a political party? I think Christians should be offended by this as well.

If the message from either side is so offensive: I say skip the paper work, organized signatures and arguements and really do something about it. Paint over it. Destroy it. Set it on fire. Stop riding the bus (the real winner in these advertisements). Otherwise, maybe it was never really offensive to begin with.

The end.

mathias wrote:And just what makes you feel so right about comparing run of the mill cause-enthusiasts to mass murders?

Because in the case of GWB it is applicable?