The Irony of the US Health Care Bill

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:41 pm

Call me crazy - the health care bill is being voted on by people none of which will be under this coverage and probably have the most lavish all encompasing coverage of anyone on the planet.

What's wrong with that picture?

Why aren't we voting on it?

Why hasn't anyone already asked this question?

swivelguy2 · Post by **swivelguy2** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:53 pm

Because there's 300 million of us and it would take way too long to get all of our votes on every little thing that gets passed.

Also, healthcare reform impacts everyone who consumes healthcare, even if a given individual won't be covered by any of the direct changes.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:58 pm

They do not represent me, or any other individual.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:24 pm

aristide1 wrote:They do not represent me, or any other individual.

Perhaps you, and other individuals, should have voted for thems that would.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:57 pm

There aren't any of them/those.

Also - They are all under a different health care plan, so they are all totally addressing an issue that does not impact them, regardless who gets voted into office, unless they turn down these benefits, which I haven't seen any of them doing that.

Greg F. · Post by **Greg F.** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:10 pm

They are not part of the USA's Social Security system, either.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:21 pm

aristide1 wrote:There aren't any of them/those.

There's a way to solve that and you know it.

aristide1 wrote:Also - They are all under a different health care plan, so they are all totally addressing an issue that does not impact them

Chances are they don't live in housing projects or get food stamps either, yet that's been voted too. Many have never served and most will never serve after they are elected, yet wars are waged. Many wouldn't step on a public transit bus, yet the government pays for that too.

What is the alternative?

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:23 am

I don't disagree, but alternatives? How many can afford a lobbyist?

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:57 am

I know little about the healthcare bill, or what it will do for the average American, but I understand that it is similar to the NHS we have here in the UK. Free for everyone to use if they need/want to use it.

Maybe I am missing something, but you (Aristide1) seem to be upset that you havent voted on whether this bil should go ahead or not, and as you are complaining I assume that you dont like this bill, why.?

Andy

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:31 am

It's not the bill that's in question, its just that if a bill benefits people, well, it's not because of Congress & Co, but in spite of them.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:39 pm

The idea that one has to vote for some shithead to get their opinions to be heard is retarded. The guy you voted for never gave a shit about you, nor does he like you. I say he, as well, they all are carbon copies, women, guys, closet trannies, whatever, all starchy looking freaks who never made it in real social circles.

This country sucks. That is why no one has healthcare. It is not because of the wealthy snorting coke off male prostitutes (for they do), or the poor doing jack shit and whining (as this is what they do), it is because our government, as constructed:

sucks ass

When can we reform that pathetic excuse for a "democracy"?

never.

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:18 am

That was helpful...thanks for that.

Personally, I don't understand anti-patriotic attitudes. It's one thing to say I don't like this or that about my country, but quite different to say "this country sucks". It's a spoiled child mentality and has no place in civilized society. If you don't like it, it's up to YOU to do something about it. That's the beauty of THIS country (and others). You are FREE to petition and congregate with like-minded individuals and make your own voices heard. Don't want to bother? You have two choices: sit down/shut up or leave (though, in truth, I don't believe either are answers).

I'm not saying that citizens should ever have a blind allegiance to a nationalistic ideal, as we should all be wary of the direction our government may head. However, we should have a core belief in the betterment of society even if the outlook is bleak. Otherwise, why bother?

The representative government was formed from a logistical basis; back then (and even now) there is no effective way to have a TRUE DEMOCRACY where everyone votes. It would be too cumbersome and every single vote would be in question. We see how long it takes for 100 senators to agree to something, imagine 230,000,000.

To me, it's anathema to hate where you are from. I may not like everything about my county, but I still love my country. It's like a marriage, you may not like your partner every minute of every day, but you still love them.

If the country you live in does not subscribe to your beliefs and shows no promise of doing so, find another country that does. It's called emigration and has been done on one scale or another throughout history. No shame or ill will in it at all. This country was founded by such people. They couldn't find a tolerant nation to call their home, so they created their own (to the eventual dismay of the native tribes).

Who has an idea of a better form of government?

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:25 pm

jhhoffma wrote:Personally, I don't understand anti-patriotic attitudes.

Well so many have an opinion of patriotism that is more a fairy tale then reality. That isn't so useful either, especially if one of those has the nuclear codes.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:04 pm

jhhoffma wrote:That was helpful...thanks for that.

Personally, I don't understand anti-patriotic attitudes. It's one thing to say I don't like this or that about my country, but quite different to say "this country sucks". It's a spoiled child mentality and has no place in civilized society. If you don't like it, it's up to YOU to do something about it. That's the beauty of THIS country (and others). You are FREE to petition and congregate with like-minded individuals and make your own voices heard. Don't want to bother? You have two choices: sit down/shut up or leave (though, in truth, I don't believe either are answers).

I'm not saying that citizens should ever have a blind allegiance to a nationalistic ideal, as we should all be wary of the direction our government may head. However, we should have a core belief in the betterment of society even if the outlook is bleak. Otherwise, why bother?

The representative government was formed from a logistical basis; back then (and even now) there is no effective way to have a TRUE DEMOCRACY where everyone votes. It would be too cumbersome and every single vote would be in question. We see how long it takes for 100 senators to agree to something, imagine 230,000,000.

To me, it's anathema to hate where you are from. I may not like everything about my county, but I still love my country. It's like a marriage, you may not like your partner every minute of every day, but you still love them.

If the country you live in does not subscribe to your beliefs and shows no promise of doing so, find another country that does. It's called emigration and has been done on one scale or another throughout history. No shame or ill will in it at all. This country was founded by such people. They couldn't find a tolerant nation to call their home, so they created their own (to the eventual dismay of the native tribes).

Who has an idea of a better form of government?

A real patriot would not be able to live with this government or the way it is set up. What do you love? I know what they love, they love you loving them and them hating/humiliating you, a big ol rancid defecation on your chest with steam roll action.

Being a patriot has not meant being a lemming for those who hate you as far as I remember.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:08 pm

aristide1 wrote:
jhhoffma wrote:Personally, I don't understand anti-patriotic attitudes.
Well so many have an opinion of patriotism that is more a fairy tale then reality. That isn't so useful either, especially if one of those has the nuclear codes.

If what you said is correct, and I suspect it is, then patriotism is much like religion. It's twisted into whatever the person wants, to their advantage, for their agenda, however you care to phrase it.

That's sad.

I recall a lab experiment years ago about population. A large container stored xx number of rats and all are happy. They added more rats and it was still good. At some point they added more rats, and they start becoming nasty to each other. They add more rats in the same amount of space and more problems occur, and more serious problems.

So despite what the founders of this country wanted is it possible to govern so many the way they used to be governed? Or are more laws and regulations required just through sheer number? In certain instances, let's say villages were 100 miles part on a river and each village could do whatever it wanted with the river, drink, dump, wash, etc. Now each village is tens of thousands and only a couple of miles apart, can the law take the river for granted as before? Doesn't seem likely.

As I go OT, I would still want those that use and need the river to be the ones making the laws regarding the river's use.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:59 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:When can we reform that pathetic excuse for a "democracy"?

How would you like to reform it?

With expletives and stereotypes?

~El~Jefe~ wrote:they they them them

Who is Them and how are they different from you?

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:16 pm

"There are a couple of ways to look at it. We only spend 9 percent of our (per capita) income on food. When I was a kid, in 1960, we only spent 18 percent on food.
It's fallen in half in those past 45 years. In that same period, the amount of money we spent on health care has gone from 5 percent to 16 percent of our income.
I can't help but think that if we spent a bit more money on food, we might spend less on health care."
-Micheal Pollan

Darth Santa Fe · Post by **Darth Santa Fe** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:39 pm

I know little about the healthcare bill, or what it will do for the average American, but I understand that it is similar to the NHS we have here in the UK. Free for everyone to use if they need/want to use it.

Maybe I am missing something, but you (Aristide1) seem to be upset that you havent voted on whether this bil should go ahead or not, and as you are complaining I assume that you dont like this bill, why.?

It doesn't make insurance free. It forces everyone to get and pay for insurance, and those who don't buy it will be penalized. That's what I know, anyway. I don't think any good will come of it.

No-one send flame replies at me, please. Politics and religion seem to start wars in forums, and I'd rather not be involved in one.

(BTW, I keep seeing "democracy" getting posted. I'm pretty sure the USA is a republic. "...and to the republic for which it stands,..." -from the Pledge of Allegiance)

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:14 am

Its nether a democracy nor a republic, its a corpocracy through and through.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:21 am

It doesn't make insurance free. It forces everyone to get and pay for insurance, and those who don't buy it will be penalized. That's what I know, anyway. I don't think any good will come of it.

So its a tax then (one way or another).

Who does the money end up with.? The government, or the health insurance company of your choice.?

If the money ends up with the government, and healthcare is paid by the government and not the patient regardless of the cost then it is very similar to our NHS.

But if the government forces everyone to get healthcare insurance whether they want it or not, then its more like car insurance (but for everyone). A legal requirement, but the end user gets to chose the insurance company, level of cover and the price will increase or shrink depending on their own health.

Andy

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:48 pm

Hi,

I hope each and every one of you can watch this Frontline show, called "Sick Around the World" with T.R. Reid:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... e=proglist

All will be clear after you watch it! Really.

AZBrandon · Post by **AZBrandon** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:20 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:Hi,

I hope each and every one of you can watch this Frontline show, called "Sick Around the World" with T.R. Reid:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... e=proglist

All will be clear after you watch it! Really.

That's a misleading title. "Sick around the world" and the only countries reviewed are United Kingdom, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland? It should be called "Sick in the richest countries in the world."

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:08 am

It should be called "Sick in the richest countries in the world."

Well he wasnt going to compare the American health system to a witch-doctor in Mozambique. The American health system can only be compared to other rich countries, ideally who spend a similar amount per capita to the US.

I dont understand why the US has such a hangup about a National Health Service, you currently spend loads of money on an International Death Service. Yes the average cost per person would increase via extra tax, but on the plus side even people with no money would get healthcare.

Andy

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:45 am

The title is NOT "Sick ALL Around the World"... I really hope that you all can watch the show, as it illustrates as plainly as possible how each of the other systems works, and talks about their problems as well as their advantages.

The main advantage being that all these other countries spend NO MORE THAN HALF of what we spend on health here in the USA -- and their coverage is generally better; sometimes a LOT better. And NO ONE goes bankrupt because of medical costs.

Very enlightening -- please take the time to watch!