What's wrong with just about everybody. In a nutshell.

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What's wrong with just about everybody. In a nutshell.

Post by aristide1 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:53 pm

Its interesting how Dems, Pubs, Muslims, Christians, and every other group on the planet all have the same problem. They all contain a small number of fundamentalist/zealots and the majority won't deal with them because they attack other groups. They even laugh at their antics.

This insubstantiates everything they all claim to be. It doesn't get more devoid of ethics than this.

There's a reason you can think for yourself.

Use it.
People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither patriots nor human beings.

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Post by xan_user » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:15 pm

The root cause is still greed.

Greed is something all those 'religions' shun in their scriptures and sermons...In reality they all embrace greed with every move.

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Post by aristide1 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:24 pm

So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.
Bertrand Russell

This goes back to that thinking for yourself business.
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Post by xan_user » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:28 pm

Intelligence is the biggest threat to dogmatic religions there is.

Intelligence is demonized by the church at all costs. It was a crime for a Catholic to own a bible when Catholicism was in its prime.

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Post by stevea » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:23 am

xan_user wrote:Intelligence is the biggest threat to dogmatic religions there is.

Intelligence is demonized by the church at all costs. It was a crime for a Catholic to own a bible when Catholicism was in its prime.
I doubt it. There are a lot of very intelligent religious ppl. They simply have a "blind spot" in their skepticism . If you told them that they motor oil just turned into ice cream they'd rightly ridicule the thought. But tell them one of the lesser deities turns water into wine it's suddenly acceptable. The problem isn't intelligence - it's the willingness to follow social conventions even when unpopular; conformity ,bending to peer pressure ....

The OP seems to be talking about something else since he mentions political parties. IMO the nutjobs on the right have a clear paranoia about government, the government taking away right, guns, the government ruled by a crypto, muslim, etc. The nutjobs on the left are even more numerous and their major paranoia is all about wealth and private enterprise ... all wealthy ppl are thieves and all big businesses are mean nasty horrible to the far lefties. Now there is no doubt that the Dem ideals are mostly about controlling business and wealth and the Pubs about limiting government, but the extremists have a truly irrational level of fear & anxiety about their respective concerns.

I don't believe that religious nutjobs are the serious problem the OP paints. Certainly not christianity; the protestant reformation and the age of enlightenment knocked most of the rough edges off christianity quite a few centuries ago. I think the current problems have a lot more to do with local culture which in turn influences the religion and it's practice.

Thought provoking article here.
http:///www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/TOXICVAL.HTM

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Post by Redzo » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:15 am

stevea wrote:I don't believe that religious nutjobs are the serious problem the OP paints. Certainly not christianity; the protestant reformation and the age of enlightenment knocked most of the rough edges off christianity quite a few centuries ago.
Yeah right. Are you serious ? What about all those crazy abortion ppl that shoot doctors ? Or Christian fundamentalist in states and that BULLSHIT they call "intelligent design" I mean those poor brainwashed souls are refusing to even acknowledge evolution.... Or the same crazy christian souls stopping new research (stemcells and so on)? You kinda left out those scary, dark and dangerous parts of that lovely religion that we call Christianity. But most ppl don't like to bash on Christianity today, it's more rewarding to talk shit about Muslims just like Jews were on the "spot" 50-60 years ago.
Religion, ALL religions are evil and are there because weak ppl need something to hold on to in time of crisis.

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Post by alleycat » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:04 am

I'll assume you're referring to the Abrahamic religions.

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Post by andyb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:09 am

Well said Redzo.

FYI "stevea" read this lengthly post.

viewtopic.php?t=53282

In this post you will find many different opinions on religion, the only agreement across the board is that religion has been at some point "bad", many people still can not see other peoples very simple fundamental points about the evil of religion.

It teaches people not to think for themselves.
It teaches people that otherwise impossible to believe events are true, with no evidence at all.
It teaches people that their religion is correct, and thus incompatable with other religions (applies to most religions).

These amongst a long list of other things breeds fanatacism, hatred, and violence in an endless loop (vicious circle) that is very easy to do with religion. This is not to say that it is not also easy to achieve with race, country or political stance, but it is a lot less common, and people dont put up with it like they do with religion.

And the final fundamental evil of religion that is not at all easy to achieve by other methods, its taught from a very young age, where the child being mentally abused will soak up everything that it is being taught, and it is not easy to shake off those beliefs at a later time.

I do totally agree with the OP that this issue affects almost everything that you could name, but the more strongly held the conviction the more liable a person is to become a fundamentalist/zealot, and religion wins that hands down, followed by various other groups right down to us here at SPCR and our "fanatic" fight against PC noise.


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Post by andymcca » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:56 am

I think the real problem is that people "need" to feel better than everyone else, and will use any excuse they can find to do it.

My excuse is that their religions and political affiliations are silly.

Other peoples' excuses are that I am going to burn in eternal hellfire or that I'm a "raving liberal", or maybe that I am immoral for not adhering to their thoughts on proper sexual relationships.

Even if we wiped out religion and political affiliation, people would still be assholes, and sheople would still be sheople.

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Post by andymcca » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:58 am

xan_user wrote:Intelligence is the biggest threat to dogmatic religions there is.

Intelligence is demonized by the church at all costs. It was a crime for a Catholic to own a bible when Catholicism was in its prime.
As an ex-catholic I can say the prevailing thought is still "Don't read the bible, ask your priest to explain what's in it". :D

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Post by aristide1 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:20 am

andymcca wrote:I think the real problem is that people "need" to feel better than everyone else, and will use any excuse they can find to do it.
This is why people love to scream "LOSER!" and put the L symbol on their forehead. It's called having Homer Simpson as your mentor.

And it's not just feeling superior, many enjoy the very act of oneupmanship. It's like having big muscles or a Corvette.

If every group policed their own nut jobs they would have fewer problems with other groups.

Another part of the problem is that people assume that it's fair and safe to let their "leaders" do all the thinking for them. That's why they pay taxes and give to their religions, so that they don't have to think and to buy some real estate in heaven. Now some pay a heavy price to also obtain those 72 virgins, but I must be cheap, because I won't even upgrade to business class.
People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither patriots nor human beings.

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Post by xan_user » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:46 am

andymcca wrote:I think the real problem is that "GREEDY" people want to feel better than everyone else, and will use any excuse they can find to do it.

.
fixed. :wink:

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Post by Reachable » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:07 pm

Have you ever noticed that when people switch religions from the one in which they were raised, they tend to become fundamentalists?

I'm thinking here about Westerners who become nouveau-Buddhists. These New Agey types would never consider becoming evangelical Christians or Jews, but as soon as they become Buddhists it's their religion that's being demeaned and sullied. Some of them attack the Olympic torch because the games are held in China which they regard as a human rights offender for its attitude towards Tibet. Richard Gere won't accept a sincere award from Chinese movie fans. People protested a banner that was displayed on top of the Empire State Building honoring the 60th anniversary of the Peoples' Republic of China, a wonderful gesture and cultural milestone that took 60 years of Cold War to achieve.

(I like the Dalai Lama as much as anyone, BTW)

The point is, if you want to show the world a transcendant face, don't ally yourself with any one religion. Respect them all for each of their places in the world's philosophy, but don't cling. I put religion-changers in the knucklehead boat.

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Post by stevea » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:59 pm

Redzo wrote:
stevea wrote:I don't believe that religious nutjobs are the serious problem the OP paints. Certainly not christianity; the protestant reformation and the age of enlightenment knocked most of the rough edges off christianity quite a few centuries ago.
Yeah right. Are you serious ? What about all those crazy abortion ppl that shoot doctors ? Or Christian fundamentalist in states and that BULLSHIT they call "intelligent design" I mean those poor brainwashed souls are refusing to even acknowledge evolution.... Or the same crazy christian souls stopping new research (stemcells and so on)? You kinda left out those scary, dark and dangerous parts of that lovely religion that we call Christianity. But most ppl don't like to bash on Christianity today, it's more rewarding to talk shit about Muslims just like Jews were on the "spot" 50-60 years ago.
Religion, ALL religions are evil and are there because weak ppl need something to hold on to in time of crisis.
Your first argument is the classic strawman fallacy. You can't really characterize 2Bln christians as evil b/c around 4 murders of abortion docs over several decades. The majority christian position seems to be that abortion is murder, and given that belief the fact there there have only been a few murders shows remarkable restraint. I know that if I actually believed that hundreds of murders were preventable I'd try to stop it. These abortionist murders are widely and openly condemned by Christians. Your argument is the same sort of lunacy as condemning all atheists since Jeffery Dahmer used atheism as a justification for his murders.

If you want to talk about christian murderers your bettter examples are Hitler, Mussilini, Franco. But Hirohito's armies killed millions of chinese as shinto. Stalin and Mao killed a lot more than the preceding in anti-religious movements..

Your second argument is detrimental to your character. I too, reject "intelligent design" as a looney unscientific idea, but youtube is filled with perpetual motion machines and wrong physics and homeopathic junk-meds. No one is forcing these dumb ideas on me. Freedom of speech is the freedom to say whatever you want without censorship or reprisal, and it only exists to the extent that we protect speech we disagree with. Do you really think that preventing ID or new-earth loons from spouting silly positions would improve the level of public discourse ? Silly ppl will just find another silly idea to promote. Hint :It's not the religion that makes them gullible yet strident. For example look at all the know-nothing-environmentalists who are absolutely against nuclear power or pro-PV panel for energy. My guess is that these are mostly non-religious, but these people who do not even comprehend the physics and economies are shouting loudly enough to push their political agenda, even have the president following. So no - I don't think that religious dumbheads are any worse than other organized dumbheads.

All that was stopped is federal funding of stemcell reseach, the research was never prevented. The Government shouldn't be managing research dollars anyway, but I do find this offensive. The only supportive arg that I find reasonable is that a large fraction of the population believes that abortion is murder and therefore the research demand for stemcells might encourage abortions. Viewed in this way I can understand how anti-abortion types would be justly offended at their tax dollars encouraging these "murders". The argument is weak and there are certainly ways to prevent commercial tissue trafficking for profit, thus avoiding any encouragement.

For better or worse we live in a constitutional democracy, where the constitution is supposed to protect minority interests, and everything not specified in the constitution is subject to the will of the majority - the democratic tyranny. If the majority wants to outlaw pork, or shellfish or MacDonald's fries it can do so. Yes religions are organization with specific preferences on these issues so they wield political power. Most organizations do. Certainly imperfect, but "Dictator Redzo" and Dictator Pat Roberson" would both be worse forms of government.

I don't know what you mean by "scary, dark and dangerous parts of that lovely religion that we call Christianity", but without any details you are just engaging in name-calling, ad hominem attacks - another logically fallacious argument. In all I don't think you have any evidence at all that mainstream christian followers commit murders or interfere with others rights at a higher rate than non-christians or even non-theists.

"But most ppl don't like to bash on Christianity today", just the opposite. Most like you do just bash christianity specifically. It's favorite punching bag for diskless wonders who don't want to to have a fatwah or be stoned or accused of anti-Semitism of other non-PC harm. I agree with your comment that religions exists b/c for weak ppl (meaning 80% of the population) and satisfies some need there, but so what ? Some ppl need eyeglasses, crutches and wheelchairs. I find most religions, and I'll include all major christian sects, hindis sihks and shinto I've worked with to be "mostly harmless". I consider Buddahism and Toaism to be more philosophies than religions, but again - mostly harmless. They aren't forcing me to do anything, so why should I care what they do in their personal lives ? All are exclusionary and some are clearly prejudiced against non-believers/non-followers, OTOH you are and other strident atheists are exclusionary and prejudiced against the religious to a similar degree.

" it's more rewarding to talk shit about Muslims just like Jews were on the "spot" 50-60 years ago.". Wow your ignorance of history is stunning. The Jews were decimates by Rome circa 300AD (several locals before that) and last time I looked Israel is the only nation that is under threat of being nuked by a UN member nation. I don't think they've stopped being "on the spot", nor will any time soon. Islam is certainly not under the same degree of pressure.

My major take-away from your arguments are that you were probably raised religious and are now a reactionary anti-religiousreligion/-hater, like Dawkins or Hitchens. If more ppl were able/willing to live w/o religion it might be better overall, but I think religion is more of a symptom than a cause of these various ills.

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Post by andymcca » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:26 pm

stevea wrote:It's favorite punching bag for diskless wonders who don't want to to have a fatwah or be stoned or accused of anti-Semitism of other non-PC harm.
I try not to get pulled into these arguements, but the "Christianity is under fire" argument really bothers me. If I didn't feel afraid to admit that I was an atheist at work (where there is a giant depiction of Noah's Ark over my desk...) perhaps I would feel differently. But the "Christian Nutjobs" have positions of immense power in the United States, and somehow avoid being seen as the crazy extremists that they are (ie the Family, et al) by the political establishment and media. If you think that being a Christian hurts your chances of landing a job compared to if you were any other faith, or no faith at all, than you are deluded. Granted there are bigots of all flavors, and anti-christian bigotry exists, but you are still a member of a privileged class, and to see your privilege as "under fire" is just defensive reasoning.

I am a white man, and I admit that white men have done awful shit to other groups, and that I benefit from it on a daily basis. White men are not a monolithic group, and I did not lynch someone or displace vast swaths of native peoples myself, but I recognize that A) white men are in a position of power and B) that power has been abused by many members of the group, often times while feeling they "deserve" their privilege. The same could be said of Christianity.
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Post by aristide1 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:12 pm

The only reason there is any Christian bashing is because of certain people who must absolutely shove their views don't your throat. If they simply turned the other cheek there would be no problem.

My point may be overlooked now, so I will address it within this area. As bad as pedophile priests were, who clearly lacked some kind of logical reasoning or functioning capabilities, the ones who should shoulder far more of the blame are the ones who knew better, the ones who saw the wrong, and then decided to cover it up, knowing full well the next group of people were going to be victims as well. They are the truly guilty ones.

Some Christians are upset and say, "They want to remove In God We Trust from currency." What difference does it make? You believe or you don't. In ancient Rome the currency didn't have those words, Christians were fed to the lions, and people still believed. At least they didn't have Pat Robertson spewing hatred in the name of Christianity. No wonder there's a backlash. First things first; get your own freaks under control.
I am a white man, and I admit that white men have done awful shit to other groups, and that I benefit from it on a daily basis. White men are not a monolithic group, and I did not lynch someone or displace vast swaths of native peoples myself, but I recognize that A) white men are in a position of power and B) that power has been abused by many members of the group, often times while feeling they "deserve" their privilege.
I'm guessing that if you saw white men lynching somebody you would do something. Again, the problem resides with those that do nothing. You address it may end. Even better if the animals are convicted by an all white jury.

I really should not talk like that, because for the most part animals don't treat their own as poorly as what people do to each other.
Last edited by aristide1 on Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Michael Sandstrom » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:16 pm

Religion is the perfect scam. Preachers are selling the promise of life after death. The cost of goods sold is zero, the proceeds are tax exempt and the dead cannot demand a refund when the afterlife fails to materialize. People are easily victimized partly because the fear of death is very strong. Preachers know they are scammers and they are totally faking piety.

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Post by Redzo » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:05 pm

Michael Sandstrom wrote:Religion is the perfect scam. Preachers are selling the promise of life after death. The cost of goods sold is zero, the proceeds are tax exempt and the dead cannot demand a refund when the afterlife fails to materialize. People are easily victimized partly because the fear of death is very strong. Preachers know they are scammers and they are totally faking piety.
+1
Well said.
"stevea"

My major take-away from your arguments are that you were probably raised religious and are now a reactionary anti-religiousreligion/-hater, like Dawkins or Hitchens. If more ppl were able/willing to live w/o religion it might be better overall, but I think religion is more of a symptom than a cause of these various ills.
No, my parents (thankfully) are not religius att all. And when i mentioned jews i knew about romans but most ppl seem to get hung up on WW2. Jews were prosecuted from Tsars Russia and many European countries as well but as i said most ppl know only about holocoaust.
"stevea"I don't know what you mean by "scary, dark and dangerous parts of that lovely religion that we call Christianity", but without any details you are just engaging in name-calling, ad hominem attacks - another logically fallacious argument. In all I don't think you have any evidence at all that mainstream christian followers commit murders or interfere with others rights at a higher rate than non-christians or even non-theists.
But what about all those "Holy Wars" we waged ?

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Post by thejamppa » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:01 pm

Religion is not needed, Faith is essential. Problem in all organized religion is that eventually someone is going to be a top dog and then he gets a lot power. And power corrupts.

Every major religion should get good wash up and reform in every 500 years or so.

I don't think religious scriptures are wrong or fairy tale (perhaps some but there is more or less seed of teuth in nearly all scriptures even it might be itty bitty as I think legends and myth's don't originate from nothing). I believe every man should be able to choose freely what to read and believe. God, Science, über-human concept... something else.

Modern Islam has same qualities what had in medieval christianity. Church controlled everything and priests lectured in latin that nobody understood. When people got change read Bible they managed question churches authority. In Islam every male reads Qu'ran but only few, the imaam's are allowed to interpretate what its meaning is. You cannot question that. That is not to protect anything but the power of the few.

I believe deeply in Bible and its word but I hate if someone is trying to shove something down on my throat so I won't do that anyone else either. We are master's of our own destiny and our own soul. Everyone is given change to make choice.

We don't need religious organizations. Churches should relinquish all their posssession for the good of the poor and hungry. Early congrigation there were no individual posession so why Church need collect taxes and collect money?

Institutionalized religion is most cases just a scam for power and money.

Crusades IMHO were not religious wars (at least first ones) but political war Pope wanted to have so he could secure the foothold in rich caravan area's and secure good tax incomes and generally grow his influence over Europe and Middle-East. But which one would peons rather die? So pope would get more land and money or for God's glory? After reading backgrounds of Crusades it is my humble opinion that was Catholic churches biggest scam for europe for long time and religion was just excuse. Of course I might be wrong.

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Post by andyb » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:25 am

Its interesting how Dems, Pubs, Muslims, Christians, and every other group on the planet all have the same problem. They all contain a small number of fundamentalist/zealots and the majority won't deal with them because they attack other groups.
Jumping straight to the point here, I know you to be correct, and every sensible person also wants those groups to police their own, but I truly believe that religious sects simply cant be trusted to do so.

I would like to think that they can, but as you have already said, they are often "happy" that their zealots are attacking a rival group. And even worse than this, all religious sects expect to have some more radical, and less radical groups alongside them. This can be said of "boy-racers" who buy a piece of crap car, and then tart it up and tweak it to gain an extra 10bhp, but alongside that group are the ones who take things to the next level by adding illegal NOS etc.

They are really following the same path within a different group. This is absolutely fine for most groups, but the religious have their own laws of protection, and go the extra mile to "hide" their violent and crazy zealots, fundamentalists and criminals, where almost every other group will do the right thing.

Remember this:

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics (and obviously a philosopher as well).

Basically this quote comes down to fanatacism, and motive. Most groups, simply cant create a member fanatical enough to be persuaded to do "evil for the cause", even fewer have a cause that has enough merit to be a serious motive to those who are otherwise good. The first iranic point here is that the greater the solidarity of the group the greater the chance of fanatacism. The second ironic point is that religions (that generally teach people to be good) already have the motive against a varied selection of groups that I dont even need to mention.

Fanatacism + motive = Religious violence/hatred/disdain against various individual groups with no connection.


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Post by thejamppa » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:09 am

andyb, I just want to add that not just religion but any idiology that has personal worship or personal cult will make good people do bad things. We've seen that in Soviet Union, North Korea (and see that) and we've seen that in Cambodia.

Religion or religion-like idiology that allows fanaticisim is dangerous. There's still different between fundametalists, zealots and radical nutjobs. And I fear most those radical nutjobs and zealots. Fundametalists are not that dangerous ( depending branch such though)
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Post by walle » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:23 am

Religion is not the main problem, main problem is atheism.

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Post by xan_user » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:45 am

walle wrote:Religion is not the main problem, main problem is atheism.
History tells a vastly different story.

idol worship, under the guise of religion, nationalism or any other form of greed is just a shell the nuts all hide their true power trips in.


How many people has God killed?

2,391,421 (not including, at least in some cases, women and children).

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com ... illed.html

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Post by walle » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:41 am

xan_user wrote:History tells a vastly different story
No, but perceptions do.
...

I must emphasize though, that I'm not suggesting religions wouldn't be causing problems. they do.
Last edited by walle on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by andymcca » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:02 am

walle wrote:Religion is not the main problem, main problem is atheism.
Right because there are so many people killing others in the name of Atheism (big 'A' meant as irony).
walle wrote:
xan_user wrote:History tells a vastly different story
No, but perceptions do.
It appears your perceptions are the skewed ones. There has never been a mass killing in the name of atheism. You can start pulling totalitarian regimes out of the air, but systematic killings in these cases were about removing competing powers, namely organized religion. They were not ideological killings, and often times (eg Stalinist russia) little or no attempt of ethical justification is made.
The historical evidence (I believe) xan_user was referring to was killing in the name of X, or warring over X, where X is a given religious viewpoint.

Edit: BTW I firmly believe that most heinous acts are committed without consideration for ethics. So no, I don't think that religion causes terrible acts per se, but that it does provide both cover and justification for those who decide they want it. And some unstable people are driven to murder by the vitriol that some spewed in the name of religion (and politics, and patriotism). I don't think the 'reasonable' Christians are vocal enough about pointing out the wrongdoing of the bigots and fanatics in their midst.
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Post by andyb » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:32 pm

I just want to add that not just religion but any idiology that has personal worship or personal cult will make good people do bad things. We've seen that in Soviet Union, North Korea (and see that) and we've seen that in Cambodia.
I am not foolhardy enough to disagree, but my point was simply that religion gives evrything that is needed to turn an otherwise good person evil, or make that good person do evil things. Anything that is a clone of a religion with a different idol (or other figurehead) is just as bad, its simply that and the justification that changes.
Religion is not the main problem, main problem is atheism.
Wow, I cant believe I just read that....... anyway, moving on.
Right because there are so many people killing others in the name of Atheism
Well said, athiesm simply does not have those 2 points I mentioned earlier: Fanatacism + motive. Athiesm has neither.
Edit: BTW I firmly believe that most heinous acts are committed without consideration for ethics. So no, I don't think that religion causes terrible acts per se, but that it does provide both cover and justification for those who decide they want it.
I missed the bit where religion and ethics are said in the same sentence in a positive manner.


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Post by walle » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:50 pm

andymcca wrote:systematic killings in these cases were about removing competing powers, namely organized religion. They were not ideological killings, and often times (eg Stalinist russia) little or no attempt of ethical justification is made.
Those who conducted these killings were atheists {both Hitler and Stalin} in fact - they were Satanists, the entire Nazi cadre was a bunch of Satanists. The Nazis used religion, nationalism and idol worship {Hitler was revered} as a tool.
andymcca wrote:I don't think that religion causes terrible acts per se, but that it does provide both cover and justification for those who decide they want it.
That sounds about right, on both accounts.

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Post by alleycat » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:07 pm

Satanism is a religion too. I think the point being made here is that all belief systems (whether political, religious, whatever) are a type of brain washing that causes followers to blindly follow dogma, sometimes to extremes.

Think for yourself, understand your environment, be considerate of others.

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Post by andyb » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:45 am

Those who conducted these killings were atheists {both Hitler and Stalin} in fact
Stalin yes, but that has nothing to do with the point. Hitler is still arguable, in some of his writings he certainly seemed to be religious (Catholic), and other he seemed not to be, but the Catholic church considered him Catholic and Hitler used that as a weapon - so just acting as though he was Catholic was enough to help him do evil.
Satanism is a religion too. I think the point being made here is that all belief systems (whether political, religious, whatever) are a type of brain washing that causes followers to blindly follow dogma, sometimes to extremes.
Well said.


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Post by andymcca » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:49 am

walle wrote:Those who conducted these killings were atheists {both Hitler and Stalin} in fact - they were Satanists, the entire Nazi cadre was a bunch of Satanists. The Nazis used religion, nationalism and idol worship {Hitler was revered} as a tool.
Wow... Where to begin...
A) Atheism is the lack of a belief in some magical higher power, so Satanism is not at all like atheism, since Satan is still a magical construct.
B) If religion and idol worship were used by the Nazis, you are supporting my point that religion can and is bent for purposes against the greater good of mankind.
C) Atheism is not a faith system. It is a definitive lack of a faith system. There are not "degrees of atheism" any more than there are degrees of vegetarianism. You either are, or are not. There is no such thing as atheist fanaticism, only anti-religious fanaticism, which is a different beast entirely. And I will gladly say that anti-religious fanaticism is just as terrible as religious fanaticism, but nobody looks at an anti-religious zealot and thinks "what a swell guy". That is where religion can differ.
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