Dice Job Expo in the big city.

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aristide1
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Dice Job Expo in the big city.

Post by aristide1 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:20 pm

Well I attended my first big city job fair. This one at Penn Plaza or Penn Station or MSG or whatever it's called (it depends on your elevation). Security people didn't even wait for the question, they just pointed where to go. I think they assumned that everyone in a suit was out of work, probably because few people actually wear a suits to work anymore, so the suits stuck out like sore thumbs. We were then packed like sardines into a penned area and we stood outside for over an hour. I suggested to some people nearby that we should start moo-ing, but they failed to see the humor. I wasn't sure why they let in only 25-30 people into the place at a time, it seemed like a really small number.

Moooooo. Mooooooooo.

Once inside I saw why. The whole setup was the size of a couple of conference rooms. There were maybe 15 tables set up, of which 3 or 4 were schools. Who can pay tuition when you're unemployed is what intelligent people ask, the schools pitch it as a good time to get more education. One school was pitching IT. Duh, IT is why I'm here. Trying pitching law school numbnuts. So there were a dozen companies there, tops. Not much of a showing for a city that once had 7 million people working there. At one table was Faux News, and nobody approached it. Perhaps they didn't realize that IT people aren't used to peddling propaganda to make money, they leave the peddling for profits to their bosses.

There were young and old there, but mostly older people. I have doubts some of the older ones will ever get a living wage again, no matter how much education they go out and get. I even ran into 2 people I knew.

The college I go to had their job expo the day before. This was in a small town and frankly there were more companies there than the city one. About 1/3rd of their tables were also schools. Out of curiousity I did go over to the table of a smaller law school. 4 years at $38,000 each. Not in my near future. Not in my far future either. Too bad, because the only summer internship programs that have not faltered this year are the ones for? Yeah, lawyers. I had to laugh when I saw the table of the company that had just let me go. I recognized the two people there and vice versa. "Oh the irony!" is all I said. They explained I was in IT and they were still letting go of people there, they were there to hire clerks. Uh, who gets a bachelors or a masters degree to be a clerk? Why aren't you over at the local community college? But no matter, these days the military is sucking up the educated to get shot at. Pity, seems like a reverse Darwinism to me.
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I now return to my role in society. Mooooooo moooooooo.
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danimal
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Post by danimal » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:28 am

actually, if you are an i.t. pro with a clearance, the military contractors will want to see your resume.

as for the student loans, you should be all over that big time... cheap interest, you can get the money directly from the government, and if you haven't paid it back within 20 years, the loan is forgiven... it's a no-brainer for a college kid.

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Post by aristide1 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:35 pm

I'm finishing up a CyberSecurity degree, and the job expo was suppose to include security clearance jobs, and there were none.
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Post by danimal » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:51 pm

you would probably have better luck looking around the dc area, or in so cal... the feds are supposed to be hiring a whole bunch of internet security people within the next two years, see if any of this is relevant to your degree:
http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/search.asp ... nits=miles

one thing that you might want to look at is getting cisco ccna certification to go along with that degree... some of the fed jobs are now requiring private certification, i.e., compTIA A+, network +, etc.

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Post by aristide1 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:09 pm

Thanks Danimal. I've been here, it certainly looks impressive until you start reading the fine print (the eligibility requirements, both years of service and/or security clearances), then the picture changes somewhat. You also need to know that living in DC you need a somewhat larger salary for the cost of living there.

I'd prefer to avoid network security in general. Everything changes much too quickly and just keeping current is a substantial on-going effort. CCNA is OK for general knowledge.

I wonder if I would have been better off with the accounting concentration. At least I could get my foot in the door at the IRS, but with what I have now.

After 2 job expos all I've applied for is a desk job at Social Security.

And while I believe there will be more job openings in this field in the future it also has all the nonsense of all US jobs:

1. You can't get it without experience, and you can't get experience without getting in.

2. And that would be years of experience, the employer has zero interest training you, you're running at full speed from day 1.

3. While not my case they also don't want a ton of experience, a fancy way of saying they don't want to pay much for you. Like I should be the Walmart of employees, sans the Walmart wardrobe of course.

This search netted 13 jobs in the entire US.
http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/search.asp ... nits=miles
:?
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Post by qviri » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:58 pm

aristide1 wrote:I'm finishing up a CyberSecurity degree
If you don't mind me asking - who grants cyber security degrees?
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Post by judge56988 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:25 pm

Based on your recent Uriah Heep post, together with some remarks you have made in other posts, I would guess that you are in your early to mid forties??
That does put you in a difficult category if you are looking to change fields and need on the job training. Almost all companies prefer recent (i.e. young) graduates to train up.

Have you considered teaching? It is one of the few jobs (at least here in the UK) for which "more mature" people are actively recruited, where life and work experience is regarded as an asset, especially when working with less academically inclined children.

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Post by frenchie » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:26 am

I totally understand what you're going through Aristide : I'll be on the job market soon :-( and I'm actively looking for a job (well, on week ends and evenings at least).
Have you considered major IT consulting firms ?
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Post by aristide1 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:38 am

qviri wrote:
aristide1 wrote:I'm finishing up a CyberSecurity degree
If you don't mind me asking - who grants cyber security degrees?
http://www.utica.edu/academic/ssm/cybersecurity/

They just had approved the first master's program in the US. No I won't be attending that.

Even worse Judge, I'm in my early 50's. (Gag, cough, spit). The thing about young grads is I think they are more likely to jump ship. I'm more likely to stay put. I'd hope my next job would be my last.

Good luck Frenchie.

Hmmm, after several internship applications I got my first acknowledgement (not acceptance) from Interpol. That's not enough to improve my day, but at least I'm not totally invisible.
Last edited by aristide1 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by danimal » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:44 am

uriah heep?? lol, that's mid-'50's territory... you never know tho, kids today are still rocking to led zep.

my sister got a job with the irs, and her 4-year degree wasn't in accounting or anything very relevant to being a tax collector, so it's probably still an option for you... her credit rating was a complete disaster, but they still hired her :roll:

i think that it's going to be difficult to seperate cyber security from network security, because so much of the world is connected via the internet... even a 3rd-shift, entry-level job at a data center would be applicable experience to your degree, because you'd be working with firewalls and such.

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Post by judge56988 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:50 am

danimal wrote:uriah heep?? lol, that's mid-'50's territory... you never know tho, kids today are still rocking to led zep.
Yeah I know... I'm 51. I didn't want to offend Aristide.:lol:
Amazing to think that they are still touring Europe, with one original member!!

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Post by aristide1 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:52 am

danimal wrote:uriah heep?? lol, that's mid-'50's territory... you never know tho, kids today are still rocking to led zep.
I did call it a trip down memory lane.
danimal wrote:her credit rating was a complete disaster, but they still hired her :roll:
Now that's amazing.
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Post by danimal » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:52 am

aristide1 wrote:Even worse Judge, I'm in my early 50's. (Gag, cough, spit). The thing about young grads is I think they are more likely to jump ship. I'm more likely to stay put. I'd hope my next job would be my last.
i'm 56, and i'm shopping an i.t. resume around... my first computer job was in the mid-'80's, then i got out of it in the mid-'90's, because as you indicated earlier, the learning never stops, because the technology keeps changing... companies don't want to pay to send you to school, and i got really burnt out on the whole scene.

i was a pc network admin back then, one guy supporting 100 users by myself, no such thing as a help desk... today i'm lucky to get even one interview every two weeks, and i'm in high-tech so cal.

if you are willing to relocate, try looking on the websites of major companies, for instance: http://www.employment.harris.com/joblist.html

and get those industry certifications, it makes a difference.

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Post by aristide1 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:57 am

judge56988 wrote:
danimal wrote:uriah heep?? lol, that's mid-'50's territory... you never know tho, kids today are still rocking to led zep.
Yeah I know... I'm 51. I didn't want to offend Aristide.:lol:
Guessing old doesn't offend me. I may buy myself an "Old Fart" basebcall cap. I'm 52.
judge56988 wrote:Amazing to think that they are still touring Europe, with one original member!!
Ah, the US has many bands like that. Even the one guy who only played cowbell is still "the original." :shock:
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Post by aristide1 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:26 am

I decided to check on an internship that I applied for 2 weeks ago. I called the person, who had no recollection of me. You would think that if someone mails you a package priority mail and it's an inch thick it may spark a bell. Oh well, my package was found and in the right hands.

Positive - I am the only applicant asking for an internship. That doesn't surprise me, I found the department and the website by accident.

Negative - The department that would request one has not done so. The HR person requested an answer within 2 weeks. I was told to check back. I could stand sitting on pins and needles for 2 weeks, had it not been for the fact that I have pretty much done just that all of this year.

Oh well, the world believes that waiting is what I do best.
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Post by aristide1 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:52 pm

danimal wrote:uriah heep?? lol, that's mid-'50's territory... you never know tho, kids today are still rocking to led zep.

my sister got a job with the irs, and her 4-year degree wasn't in accounting or anything very relevant to being a tax collector, so it's probably still an option for you... her credit rating was a complete disaster, but they still hired her :roll:

i think that it's going to be difficult to seperate cyber security from network security, because so much of the world is connected via the internet... even a 3rd-shift, entry-level job at a data center would be applicable experience to your degree, because you'd be working with firewalls and such.
I appreciate this, I'm hoping they see some future growth for me, not just another number cruncher. I will apply for this one this week, along with 1 or 2 others, but I don't hold my breath on any of them.
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Post by flapane » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:34 am

Just a tought... isn't the IT market already saturated?

I'm just seeing too much people studying Computer engineering or a bunch of IT bachelor's, and many of them can't find an appropriate work because there is already a lot of older and more experienced people in the same field, let alone people who pretends to be IT gurus without any valid resumè. I have heard that something is still left in Northern Europe, but not really much... seems like the West is already saturated, especially in these crisis tough times.
Furthermore I don't know how it works there, but I'm afraid that most industries tend to prefer younger candidates, so that could be an issue. Relocation is nearly impossible, at least here (and at least now).

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