"The most important subject on Earth"

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PlanetOfTheApes
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"The most important subject on Earth"

Post by PlanetOfTheApes » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:10 am

Philosophical discussion about the world, life and what being human is.
Part 1 mp3 - 37 minutes
Part 2 mp3 - 54 minutes

Alternatively, to save some time, here are the 11 min youtube videos on fast forward:
Video 1
Video 2

Video 3
Video 4
Video 5

Note:
- mild coarse language
- you may wish to skip over the first 3 mins of part 1 (just some youtube drama)
- may be regarded as a summary of an ongoing discussion
- sound quality is a little patchy

Here's my quick summary and some edited (by me) extracts from the part 1 mp3. But please listen to the original source.

Summary

DNA's irrational agenda. The Ape and Reptile brain. Wasted suffering.

The agenda is consumption and reproduction with no cause, no balance, no regard for how much suffering is paid for the orgasmic pleasure. It uses things like addiction, desire, passion to control to obligate organisms to ignore their intelligence, if they have any, and keep marching through it to compel them to create intense motivation that is counter intuitive to the intelligence.

Extracts

We can't allow feelings/emotions to describe reality . The truth requires us to accept that nature is not the source of knowledge and wisdom.

It's addiction that motivates you, ever bit of your passion is build out of monkey and lizard juice. There's no intelligence in any of that. You're using your intelligence as a scheming tool to keep an ape and a lizard happy.

The course of intelligence is to seek the truth, but there's a huge resistance to the truth being revealed.

Glorification of the human beast, the passion, the crude addicted organism is just nonsense, we can't accept the fact that the core/source of our existence is an irrational mechanism that reproduces itself without any logical rational cause or purpose or accomplishment

There's no freedom of thought. Our perception of the world is built and would not exist without our historical foundation. We're not free or independent of our historical foundation. We are constructs that are built by a process, our environment builds us and we will do as our construct is built to do.

Your brain is focused on the glory of satisfying your addiction. My brain is focused of the horrible price paid for this silly stupid irrational addiction

Gorillas and lizard, that's the passion. Intelligence is thing that if you don't have tremendous discipline, the Lizard and the Ape will use the rest of your brain like a fucking hammer, they will use your intelligence to scheme and connive a way to manipulate and destroy anything in the way of its passion, what it loves and what it has defined as cute, what it cares about because it has a personal relation to it, all this subjective crap will rule the fucking individual organism and as long as individuals are owned by their individuality and not any devoted principle understanding of their obligation to civilization, there will be no civilization.

Future of the human race. There's a conceivable horrible more likely road where we will destroy civilization, brutalize the human organism, we will sentence it to a harsh dismal cockroach existence, that's the likely hood. It's going to be hard to exterminate the human race. So what's going to be left behind is another animal, another dumb ignorant ape, apes with AK47s is what's going to still be on planet fucking Earth.

Intelligence thing. We haven't done much until a couple hundred years ago when this thing really took off. And now we really have some kind of measure of power, look at what we're doing with it, 7 billion people, insufficient resources and we can't even politically discuss the idea of birth control.

No other organism is really using external tools to any measure that we are, their DNA is controlling how long their teeth are, how big their ears are, how good their personal tools are. So the DNA doesn't have reach, the DNA can't control what we're build outside of ourselves and can't stop us from making a nuclear bomb, it just doesn't have the ability to stop it from happening.

Brain outsmarting the DNA. The DNA is too stupid to be outsmarted, it has no smart.

Intelligence informs us that this is stupid, our passion is going to keep saying, no it's beautiful, it's wonderful, magnificent, I must feel it, have it. That's the dilemma.

How does it feel, that's how we measure its value, what part of us does it rub the right way. Which one of our crude ape and lizard sensibilities does it tweak just right and that's how we're defining its value. That's the imbecility of the circumstance. The value equation has to be processed by the most capable instrument to process it, which is objective intelligence.

We can make this a lot safer. We can make it fail safe and we can take a substantial amount of the conscience suffering out of the equation by going into a virtual reality and that to me is probably the safest and best place for conscience to exist. But you've seen what happens, again another subject you can't even rationally talk about with people. They don't get why it's necessary and can't figure out why it optimises our circumstance, why there's logic to having that garden, by structuring and optimising the environment. They are just going to keep saying nature-nature-nature, because that's what they're horny for, that's what they've been conditioned to think is their mother.

The goodness in nature. The good is this superficial rose coloured glasses foggy image of the reality. That's why you can find the good is because you're not picking at the details, you're not revealing the dirt, the skeleton, the smell the stench, you've taken out its reality and you're just qualifying it because you've erased/filtered out what you could see, if you wanted to see it.

Swiss army knife given to me by my DNA. Again Swiss army knife that we put in the hands of a monkey and a lizard. Intelligence is not using the Swiss army knife, the monkey and the lizard are using it. So it is just a lethal weapon in the hands of a maniacal lunatic.

Thankful to nature. The idea that you would be grateful to a crude force that created an addict that is part of a 7 billion strong loony race of reproducing monstrous Frankensteins that are on the verge of causing huge toxic destruction of an environment that will cause untold harm and nastiness to sentient beings for untold millennia is not something to be thankful for. I'm not happy to be part of it, that's my destiny to be one of the monsters, one of the little Frankensteins that had the potential to do something and instead gave the army knife to a dumb fucking monkey.

Author's youtube channels and website
website:
Donotgod
some of his youtube channels:
Inmendham
DoNotGod (temporarily suspended)
GloomBoomDoom
FairEconomics
InJustice4Most

Debate Room
The author (Gary) hosts a weekly pubic video debate room on Saturday night US eastern time on Stickam.com. Starts around midnight.
No set agenda, broad range of topics discussed. Expect some coarse language and the occasional troll trying to ruin the show.
If you wish to listen in and or ask him a question you'll need to register/join with Stickam then look for the debate room invitation video on his Inmendham youtube channel at around midnight.
http://www.stickam.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/inmendham
Last edited by PlanetOfTheApes on Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:25 am, edited 21 times in total.

swivelguy2
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Post by swivelguy2 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:59 am

Before I invest 37 minutes, what's the 20-word summary of what this is about?

andyb
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Post by andyb » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:49 am

The first 5-minutes is meandering crap between an almost unhearable voice (all volumes on max) and an irate other.

If there is a version that is actually possible to listen to without cocking around with volumes contantly I will, but otherwise I simply cant be bothered.

How about a text script of the conversation.? I will read that.


Andy

Jay_S
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Post by Jay_S » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:55 am

I'd contend the most important (and misunderstood) subject is the exponential function.

Albert Bartlett and The Exponential Function, Part 1 of 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

PlanetOfTheApes
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Post by PlanetOfTheApes » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:24 pm

Thanks for commenting. I've updated my first post.

PlanetOfTheApes
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Post by PlanetOfTheApes » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:24 pm

Update: Added another brilliant discussion/response - part 2 mp3. Sound quality is a little better in part 2.

For the time poor listeners, I've added links to 5 x 11 min fast forward youtube videos.

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Post by aristide1 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:13 am

I thought this was a thread about how to score with Catherine Bell.

ces
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Post by ces » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:25 pm

Angst about What????

What is all this angst about. DNA is just self replicating information accumulated out of a lot of trial and error.

Language

The storage and replication of that self replicating information escaped the bounds of DNA's biological reproductive process to a limited extent with the development of language.

Language created a way for it to reproduce without sexual reproduction. Language created a way to store information in the form of culture. So information could be accomulated, evolved and passed on from generation through mechanisms other than the DNA code.

Whether it is conquistador weapons or Western property law systems, they displace less effective information such as native Indian technology or war making practices. I guess capitalism's dominance over communism in "communist" China is perhaps another example of this.

Information that is no longer used evaporates. I saw something on PBS where they were looking at remnants of ancient Greek bronze weapons. The expert who was showing them off said that we no longer have the metallurgical skills to create reproduce ancient bronze work. Back then it was important. We have moved past that. Sort of like losing our gills.

Written Language kicked the evolution of this non-DNA self reproducing information into override. It has now infested the surface of the Earth.

Raymond Kurzweil - human language to computer language

Where is it headed? Raymond Kurzweil, inventor of the Kurzweil synthesizer, has written some books on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Kurzweil

He makes a compelling argument that this information is moving from language into computer programs. That DNA will be left behind in the dust, much as gills, and finely crafted bronze armor have been.

Kurzweil's prediction that this is all at a tipping point and how it is now going to unfold over the next 100 years into some sort of information singularity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction ... .282005.29

It isn't about Good, Bad, Pain or Suffering

Good, Bad, Pain, Suffering have never been relevant to this ongoing process. Darwinian evolution does not select for happiness. It does not select for right over wrong, or fair over unfair.

It selects only successful reproduction over less successful reproduction.

For instance, it used to be that if you were dumb and slow, you would get eaten and not leave so many descendants. Not so any more. There is no longer any relationship between intelligence and reproductive rates - if there is the relationship it may be an inverse one. Our average brain size is even smaller than it once was.

It is speculated that the environment that generated our inordinately large brains as a 200,000 year period in the rift valley in Africa. For this period of time, every 1000 years or so it went from desert to swamp to desert to swamp. DNA evolution was not sufficiently adaptable to keep up with it - directly. It instead evolved a brain that could adapt to it. That could reprogram itself far faster than DNA could reprogram itself.

With those environmental forces gone, it looks like our individual intelligence is slowly regressing. But our accumulated knowledge is just starting to accelerate.

Like You Can Do Anything About it

Why brood over something you have no control over? Go get a life.
Last edited by ces on Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aristide1
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Post by aristide1 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:12 pm

This is an awful lot of words to say that every species is out for itself, and some have taken it a step further by being out there only for themselves.

And so....... :?:

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Post by Big Pimp Daddy » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:19 pm

To quote Black Box Recorder (British pop-music band); "Life's a bitch, kill yourself or get over it.", or for a slightly lighter take on it, paraphrasing Mr Bill Hicks; "The world is like a ride at an amusement park [so chill the fuck out] because this is just a ride.".

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Post by ces » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:10 pm

aristide1 wrote:This is an awful lot of words to say that every species is out for itself, and some have taken it a step further by being out there only for themselves.
It is what it is. It can not be any other way.

It is supported by the most fundamental laws of logic, laws of logic that may be even more immutable than laws of physics. It is possible for even the laws of physics to fluctuate from place to place in the universe, but for the laws of logic to fluctuate, you maybe need a different universe.

What survives and replicates is that which is most successful at surviving and replicating.

How much more basic can you get?

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Post by aristide1 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:19 pm

I ended up just a human. I can't recall if I checked off the "Vulcan" checkbox or not.

On occasion I do feel like I've been dropped on the wrong planet. I thought it was just me.

PlanetOfTheApes
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Weekly chat room

Post by PlanetOfTheApes » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:38 pm

The author (Gary) hosts a weekly pubic video debate room on Saturday night US eastern time on Stickam.com. Starts around midnight.

No set agenda, broad range of topics discussed. Expect some coarse language and the occasional troll trying to ruin the show.

If you wish to listen in and or ask him a question you'll need to register/join with Stickam, then look for the debate room invitation video on his Inmendham youtube channel at around midnight.

http://www.stickam.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/inmendham

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Post by aristide1 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:11 pm

What survives and replicates is that which is most successful at surviving and replicating.
Some would argue that's no longer true since the dawn of medicine, at least not in the way nature intended. The Darwin Awards and the TV show "1000 ways to die" seem to add some validity to the claim. (I neither agree nor disagree with that, just pointing it out.)

I do think we have surpassed other species here:
Ripley wrote:You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.

ces
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Post by ces » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:33 pm

aristide1 wrote:
What survives and replicates is that which is most successful at surviving and replicating.
Some would argue that's no longer true since the dawn of medicine, at least not in the way nature intended. The Darwin Awards and the TV show "1000 ways to die" seem to add some validity to the claim. (I neither agree nor disagree with that, just pointing it out.)

I do think we have surpassed other species here:
Ripley wrote:You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.
I don't understand. Please explain using more words.

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Post by aristide1 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:13 am

1. Nature is set up so that only the strongest, healthiest, and perhaps the smartest of a species survive. This happens with every species that has a predator species. Medicine and the lack of predators levels the playing field. Some could argue disease is our only predator, and so medicine destroys many of our predators.

2. Ripley was attempting to prevent her own destruction by another species, when she discovered she had more to worry about from her own kind than the aliens.

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Post by thejamppa » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:11 pm

aristide1 wrote: It is supported by the most fundamental laws of logic, laws of logic that may be even more immutable than laws of physics. It is possible for even the laws of physics to fluctuate from place to place in the universe, but for the laws of logic to fluctuate, you maybe need a different universe.
There are various logic's. What you speak as unchanged logic is probably based on mathematical and scinetific proofing... But every person has their own logic. What you learn in college's and universities are generally applied logic. According something is impossible, then its not worth even trying.

Its funny though, most scientific break thru's have been made by people, who has different idea what is possible and they had own logical thinking, which differented from general and accepted logical way of think during their time.

IMHO current education has taken wrong step when it teached what is impossible, instead encouraging to explore what is possible and is impossible really impossible after all?

The basic logic may seem really alike but like all people are individual, their logical thinking patterns varies too. Education is one way of unificating logical thinking pattern of several individuals... So basicly we could also debate natures of: human logic, real logic, scientific logic and learned logic are they same? Are they variation of same thing or are they different?

Man who is not taught to think himself, cannot tell difference between truth and lie. He only know's what he has been taught and takes it for granted.

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Post by ces » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:26 pm

thejamppa wrote: Apples

There are various logic's. What you speak as unchanged logic is probably based on mathematical and scinetific proofing...

Oranges

But every person has their own logic.

Bananas

What you learn in college's and universities are generally applied logic.

Pears

According something is impossible, then its not worth even trying.

Its funny though, most scientific break thru's have been made by people, who has different idea what is possible and they had own logical thinking, which differented from general and accepted logical way of think during their time.

Kumquat

IMHO current education has taken wrong step when it teached what is impossible, instead encouraging to explore what is possible and is impossible really impossible after all?

Dead Cat

The basic logic may seem really alike but like all people are individual, their logical thinking patterns varies too. Education is one way of unificating logical thinking pattern of several individuals... So basicly we could also debate natures of: human logic, real logic, scientific logic and learned logic are they same? Are they variation of same thing or are they different?

Man who is not taught to think himself, cannot tell difference between truth and lie. He only know's what he has been taught and takes it for granted.
In my opinion, you are mixing apples, oranges, Bananas, Pears, Kumquats and Dead Cats. I think they are just different subjects. If you mix them together I don't know what you get.

Like comparing a chess game with a debate. Or Physics with Social Work. Mathematics with drama. Some subjects lend themselves to multiple valid viewpoints. Some don't. When you lose a chess game, it is not subject to debate. When you miscalculate the reentry of a space vehicle, its success or failure is not subject to debate. You can debate the quality of a play. You can debate whether or not Shakespeare wrote a good play. You can't debate whether or not someone has solved a 300 year old mathematical problem. Either they have or they have not.

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Post by Jay_S » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:31 pm

ces wrote:What survives and replicates is that which is most successful at surviving and replicating.

How much more circular can you get?
Fixed!

"Most" has no place in your statement - there is either success or not-success. "Success" means the completion of some action. Your statement reduces to: "What subject is doing [action A] and [action B] is that subject which does [action A] and [action B]".

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Post by judge56988 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:07 pm

Jay_S wrote:
ces wrote:What survives and replicates is that which is most successful at surviving and replicating.

How much more circular can you get?
Fixed!

"Most" has no place in your statement - there is either success or not-success. "Success" means the completion of some action. Your statement reduces to: "What subject is doing [action A] and [action B] is that subject which does [action A] and [action B]".
Oh please! :roll:

The usage of phrases such as "more successful" or "varying degrees of success" is perfectly acceptable these days and the implied meaning is understood by everyone; even the most stubborn pedant. It is clear by the context when a person is saying that something is either a success or a failure.
Language evolves, common usage determines meaning. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/success

If the rules were set in stone we would still be talking like this:
And specially fro euery shiris ende
Of yngelond to Cauntirbury thy wende
The holy blisful martir forto seke
That them hath holpyn when they were seke

Or grunting like cavemen :lol:

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Post by Jay_S » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:15 am

I agree that language evolves and that meaning is relative. But while the meaning of language and the acceptability of phrases have their place in rhetorical arguments, they do not fit in logical arguments. I should have included the preceding statement in passage I quoted, where ces invokes "the most fundamental laws of logic, laws of logic that may be even more immutable than laws of physics". It was funny to me that ces followed that with a circular definition.

Defining some thing in terms of itself is circular, regardless of rhetorical acceptability. No new meaning is gained.

I assume the discussion is about reproductive fitness as it applies to population survival over time. I don't think that this topic can be summarized with any single convenient expression. But if I had to offer one:

A population will survive if the birth rate among members of the population is equal to or greater than the death rate.

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Post by colm » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:53 pm

babble. all these theories. go get laid.

just kidding. Seems as though a cold war and decision of mass holocuast is looming. :roll:

I suppose that means pretend supremacist, like china and its taking over the world.
A culture that allows demise has bigger people.. get over it midgets,get over it...

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Post by thejamppa » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:53 am

ces: World was changed people who thought out of box and out of appropriate way. Da Vinci, Einstein, Copernicus, Franklin, Newton etc did all thinking new ways and challenged mainstream thinking.

Yeah, I might be mixing various fruits and such, but sometimes correct answer is fruitmix or fruitbowl. Those happened to be delicious. Add a dead cat and you get great painting if done with traditional and classical way. Add a Schröder's cat and you get snack and a dilemma.

Everything is based on point of view and your faith. What you believe determs alot your logic too. I maybe am wrong, but I want to test logic my ways and learn myself what works for me. If I take everything they teach without criticism or some degree of doubt, all I will do is learn to think like rest, be gray mass, level headed like many colleges and universities produce these days.

World's greatest discoveries and invention's have been made by challenged mainstream truth's and idea's. If we stop that, we stop evolving and inventing. 1+1=2 because it was agreed and therefor its logical... but is it universal truth and fact which applies 100% in every situation, every condition, every universe and every dimension? Now that's the question.

Man lives in more complex reality than most of us realize. There's much more than three dimensional reality that we live and we can percieve thru our senses. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am not, but I won't stop questioning things and law's of science/nature simply as they might look correct. Earth may look like flat, so in old age it was fact planet was flat. Those who dared question it and said Earth was globe were taught insane, till Magalhaes sailed around globe.

How many more years it would have taken to proove that Earth was sphere and not flat if Magalhaes and rest of the explorer's would have simply believed that Earth was flat as it was taught and accepted in scientific circles?

Challenging everything is way of evolving and invention. In individual as well global level. This world was changed by challenging facts and challenging our selves. Those who do not challenge them selves and take everything granted and not challenge anything are nothing but gray, faceless mass... Similar what communist machine produced from their schools. Closer to robots than human beings.

Edit: Of course explorer I referred is not Magalhaes but Magellan. Ferdinand Magellan. My name memory sucks.

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Life Sucks

Post by PlanetOfTheApes » Sun May 16, 2010 6:31 pm

I enjoyed reading all your comments. I've just created a new related topic: Life Sucks

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