on internet forums
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:38 pm
Either I am becoming different or the world just stinks .
I guess there are plenty of good or reasonable English language forums.
Typically however on many forums I run into fights with moderators that think they need to decide how other people should live.
Not here, I have never had an issue here as far as I know.
Forums I avoid the most are Dutch language forums. For some reason the Dutch are the most hostile to good ideas.
There is only one reasonable computer support community in the Netherlands, called Gathering of Tweakers.
It is also the only really good pricewatch site, where they get their money. It's not cheap to be listed at Tweakers.net, hardware companies have to pay per click-through and it is not cheap. They complain, but what can they do. Tweakers has a monopoly.
I often avoid clicking on the links because it is so costly to them.
As Dutch people go, Tweakers (GoT) is a cynical bunch but helpful. You will usually get good advice and information, provided you can stand the culture. It is usually much more common to get into fights with moderators because they assume the role of a regular poster and in that role start harrassing people. A moderator assuming user role thinks he or she has more rights and be more pedantic, petulant, downbearing and insolent than regular posters. After all, if you object they'll just ban you. Power corrupts.
So I would say at least some 50% of my encounters with mods are through their abusing their powers. The other 50% is users wasting your time with senseless answers but you are required to stay polite and indulge them to no end.
That is globally speaking. People in the Linux community especially have this idea that if you ask a question, you are now required to fulfil your obligation to complete a complete troubleshooting process in which they try to solve your problem or rearrange your computer.
Usually people see it as a reason and opportunity to decide the fate of another computer. Or user.
This typically means that if you do it on your own, it costs you 30 minutes max. to find the answer. If you do it with the help of others, you waste several hours as you are trying to stay polite so as not to get banned (also talking about IRC now).
The reason being that Google is not petulant, it will just give you the answer you request of it.
Customer support in general has this wild belief that a request for information is always a request for help.
You ask whether they have ever released a new version (Antec) (for example, just an example, nothing important) and the answer you get is that opening your device would void your warranty.
Or (in the Linux world) you ask if some feature is supported and they tell you not to use it. But they don't tell you whether it is supported or not. If you ask them if they've used it themselves they answer by saying they are not as stupid. But they don't actually have the answer to the question. Linux people in general try to avoid telling you they don't know something or that something doesn't work. Sounds like a company employee right.
In the Netherlands GoT has a near complete monopoly, there is just nothing else. Almost every other forum is "dead in the water". The only remaining forum has moderators or very active users that can't stand if you know more than them.
Jealousy in general is a huge issue for the underdeveloped or those who deal with them...
I probably know more about computers than anyone I personally know save for one friend perhaps. And back in university there were people who have done more, been more. But today my life is pretty much devoid of such people and on the Dutch internet that is accessible to me it is just poverty all around from my PoV.
Basically on this one forum if I ask anything I just get told I'm stupid or that I'm doing something stupid.
I typically stay away from all Dutch people and sources of information, on the internet, these days. It's just not worth it.
Even Dutch wikipedia, if they do not simply clone an English page (why not, you know) their content is usually some 20% of the English language page, and usually the information is just worse as well.
But since Google likes to shove you your language in your face (based on IP, nothing else) you now have to go out of your way to avoid the Dutch Crap. .
I hope I am not offending anyone here less than I intend to . Lol, just kidding.
Another unrelated thing is programs insisting to do spell checking but never being able to compine or even detect two concurrent or alternating languages.
Spell checking for bi-lingual people is a *complete mess*.
But as to forums:
- you can't be on Linux forums if you actually speak your mind or object to the false information being presented to unknowing users.
- you can't be on Dutch forums if you know more than the people trying to answer you and/or object to people consequently pretending that you are the stupid one; that they know more than you do and you should listen to them.
Sometimes just pointing out something is false can get you a lot of hate.
Then you have forums that combine messages and throw away unicode.
All in all there is just barely a place left for me. Well there is enough English places like Tom's Hardware, this site here, perhaps Johnny Guru, OC.net and so on, that are not plagued by moderators with a personal vendetta. The moment I want to talk to Dutch people it is not possible (to talk in the Dutch language).
I got banned by the moderators (of the community, at GoT) while the community manager (of the company) was apologizing to me.
Or maybe I asked for my account to be removed, which is basically the same thing when it comes down to it, whether I leave first or they force me to is pretty much the same in the end. Since their site also contains reviews, among other things, you are subsequently banned from all parts and all venues around their platform. Typically... I wanted to say they generally probably get away with it because they are a monopoly anyway. They probably generally get away with it. Typically on a Dutch-language forum (sometimes for the same product) you get in a fight much sooner than on the English equivalent.
Communities self-regulate but the tighter a community is (and Dutch communities are always small) the sooner a moderator will jump in and start to direct things. Causing the self-regulation to no longer take place and creating what I could call "deep wounds" among people. Authoritarian behaviour is generally detrimental to the overall health of a community.
At GoT I never had an issue with users. It was a moderator that started breaking me down because I didn't agree with him.
What is your opinion of the internet world at large? Has it deteriorated in recent times?
Or have I become picky or demanding?
I guess there are plenty of good or reasonable English language forums.
Typically however on many forums I run into fights with moderators that think they need to decide how other people should live.
Not here, I have never had an issue here as far as I know.
Forums I avoid the most are Dutch language forums. For some reason the Dutch are the most hostile to good ideas.
There is only one reasonable computer support community in the Netherlands, called Gathering of Tweakers.
It is also the only really good pricewatch site, where they get their money. It's not cheap to be listed at Tweakers.net, hardware companies have to pay per click-through and it is not cheap. They complain, but what can they do. Tweakers has a monopoly.
I often avoid clicking on the links because it is so costly to them.
As Dutch people go, Tweakers (GoT) is a cynical bunch but helpful. You will usually get good advice and information, provided you can stand the culture. It is usually much more common to get into fights with moderators because they assume the role of a regular poster and in that role start harrassing people. A moderator assuming user role thinks he or she has more rights and be more pedantic, petulant, downbearing and insolent than regular posters. After all, if you object they'll just ban you. Power corrupts.
So I would say at least some 50% of my encounters with mods are through their abusing their powers. The other 50% is users wasting your time with senseless answers but you are required to stay polite and indulge them to no end.
That is globally speaking. People in the Linux community especially have this idea that if you ask a question, you are now required to fulfil your obligation to complete a complete troubleshooting process in which they try to solve your problem or rearrange your computer.
Usually people see it as a reason and opportunity to decide the fate of another computer. Or user.
This typically means that if you do it on your own, it costs you 30 minutes max. to find the answer. If you do it with the help of others, you waste several hours as you are trying to stay polite so as not to get banned (also talking about IRC now).
The reason being that Google is not petulant, it will just give you the answer you request of it.
Customer support in general has this wild belief that a request for information is always a request for help.
You ask whether they have ever released a new version (Antec) (for example, just an example, nothing important) and the answer you get is that opening your device would void your warranty.
Or (in the Linux world) you ask if some feature is supported and they tell you not to use it. But they don't tell you whether it is supported or not. If you ask them if they've used it themselves they answer by saying they are not as stupid. But they don't actually have the answer to the question. Linux people in general try to avoid telling you they don't know something or that something doesn't work. Sounds like a company employee right.
In the Netherlands GoT has a near complete monopoly, there is just nothing else. Almost every other forum is "dead in the water". The only remaining forum has moderators or very active users that can't stand if you know more than them.
Jealousy in general is a huge issue for the underdeveloped or those who deal with them...
I probably know more about computers than anyone I personally know save for one friend perhaps. And back in university there were people who have done more, been more. But today my life is pretty much devoid of such people and on the Dutch internet that is accessible to me it is just poverty all around from my PoV.
Basically on this one forum if I ask anything I just get told I'm stupid or that I'm doing something stupid.
I typically stay away from all Dutch people and sources of information, on the internet, these days. It's just not worth it.
Even Dutch wikipedia, if they do not simply clone an English page (why not, you know) their content is usually some 20% of the English language page, and usually the information is just worse as well.
But since Google likes to shove you your language in your face (based on IP, nothing else) you now have to go out of your way to avoid the Dutch Crap. .
I hope I am not offending anyone here less than I intend to . Lol, just kidding.
Another unrelated thing is programs insisting to do spell checking but never being able to compine or even detect two concurrent or alternating languages.
Spell checking for bi-lingual people is a *complete mess*.
But as to forums:
- you can't be on Linux forums if you actually speak your mind or object to the false information being presented to unknowing users.
- you can't be on Dutch forums if you know more than the people trying to answer you and/or object to people consequently pretending that you are the stupid one; that they know more than you do and you should listen to them.
Sometimes just pointing out something is false can get you a lot of hate.
Then you have forums that combine messages and throw away unicode.
All in all there is just barely a place left for me. Well there is enough English places like Tom's Hardware, this site here, perhaps Johnny Guru, OC.net and so on, that are not plagued by moderators with a personal vendetta. The moment I want to talk to Dutch people it is not possible (to talk in the Dutch language).
I got banned by the moderators (of the community, at GoT) while the community manager (of the company) was apologizing to me.
Or maybe I asked for my account to be removed, which is basically the same thing when it comes down to it, whether I leave first or they force me to is pretty much the same in the end. Since their site also contains reviews, among other things, you are subsequently banned from all parts and all venues around their platform. Typically... I wanted to say they generally probably get away with it because they are a monopoly anyway. They probably generally get away with it. Typically on a Dutch-language forum (sometimes for the same product) you get in a fight much sooner than on the English equivalent.
Communities self-regulate but the tighter a community is (and Dutch communities are always small) the sooner a moderator will jump in and start to direct things. Causing the self-regulation to no longer take place and creating what I could call "deep wounds" among people. Authoritarian behaviour is generally detrimental to the overall health of a community.
At GoT I never had an issue with users. It was a moderator that started breaking me down because I didn't agree with him.
What is your opinion of the internet world at large? Has it deteriorated in recent times?
Or have I become picky or demanding?