Fanless heatsink for nVidia 6800 series?

They make noise, too.

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Fanless heatsink for nVidia 6800 series?

Post by JazzJackRabbit » Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:16 am

Anybody knows if there are any fanless heatsinks available for nVidia 6800 series right now or in the nearest future? We know that Arctic Silencer will be coming out with a new revision of their cooler (which although not fanless will be extremely quiet) compatible with ATI X800PRO/XT. However now that nVidia has finally caught up with ATI in terms of performance, I'm reevaluating my choices for the next videocard. 6800GT is priced about the same as X800PRO, but it has 16 pipelines instead of 12 so it is much faster on most of the games. Of course noise is still the biggest concern to me - I'd rather settle for half of the perpormance than for half the noise increase.

So for now we have two probable contendands:

Zalman 80D
+fanless
-still no reliable information if it will be compatible with 6800
-less than optimal construction and heat dissapation, may need an optional fan
-as a result it will heat up case a lot

AeroCool VM101 cooler
+fanless
+excellent heatsink positioning on the top of the videocard right by the rear outtake fans
+as a result will not heat up case temperature a lot because the hot air will be sucked out by the natural airflow
-once again, no reliable information if it will be compatible with 6800
-only 70Watt of heat disappation, AFAIK 6800 series generate much more heat than that

Any thoughts?

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Post by Rusty075 » Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:16 am

I'm not sure I would conclude that the 6800 outperforms the X800. The performance is neck-and-neck, depending upon which benchmarks you choose to go by, yet the 6800 produces 50% more heat.

50% more heat for maybe 5-10% more performance? Hmm.

But regardless of that, either one is going to be a lot of heat to deal with, on par with adding a second CPU to your case.

Any fanless solution, either from Zalman or Aerocool, is going to have the same effect on case temps as the stock cooler will. The heat is being dumped inside the case, which will result in higher case, cpu and psu temps. That will requir more airflow to stay cool, and result in more noise.

A solution which gets the heat outside the case as directly and quietly as possible seems like a better idea.
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Post by Tyrdium » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:40 am

No.
But we will have the ATI Silencer 4 for all X800 boards. Available in
about 6-7 weeks.

Best Regards
___________________________________

ARCTIC COOLING Support
Magnus Huber



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Tyrdium [mailto:tyrdium@tyrdium.com]
Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Juni 2004 19:57
An: help@arctic-cooling.com
Betreff: VGA Silencer Rev. 4


To Arctic Cooling:
Is there an estimated release date for the VGA Silencer Revision 4?
Also, will the Revision 3 VGA Silencer work with an X800 XT Platinum
Edition (running at stock speeds), or will only the Revision 4 work?
Thanks in advance for your help.
That email came on June 22nd, so it will hopefully be available around the end of July. In a separate email to HIS, however, a representative stated that the X800 XT IceQ II will be available in mid July. Given that it seems to use the VGA Silencer Revision 4, make of it what you will...

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Post by JazzJackRabbit » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:41 am

Performance wise 6800GT not only beats the hell out of X800PRO but also approaches 6800Ultra/X800XT performance. 6800GT IMO is a jewel, not too terribly expensive while still almost as fast as the top of the line videocards, especially when overclocked.

Any fanless solution, either from Zalman or Aerocool, is going to have the same effect on case temps as the stock cooler will.
Not exactly, and this is why I love AeroCool design.
1.It dumps the hot air above videocard, not below, which helps the videocard to stay cooler.
2.It also dumps the hot air very close to the rear outtake fans, which makes it much easier to remove it from the case, thus lowering overall case temperatures.
3.Unlike Zalman 80D heatsink with an additional fan installed, AeroCool does not mess with the case airflow. With aerocool the air naturally enters front of the case and exits at the back taking the heat away from the GPU heatsink on its way. 80D fan however blows some of the air towards the front of the case, thus preventing the natural case airflow...

Of course I know that 6800/X800 generates enormous enount of heat, but one still hopes... :roll: Besides I don't really want to spend $200 for an outdated videocard and another $20-40 for a third-party heatsink when I can get a new-generation card which is twice as fast in the new games for only $50 more. Doesn't really makes sense, doesn't it?

Tyrdium
I know about Silencer 4 - I wrote about it in the very first post. However 6800GT is a lot faster than X800PRO and I think nobody is going to argue that nVidia still has much better drivers.

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Post by Tyrdium » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:58 am

JazzJackRabbit, where are you getting these benchmarks from? Everything I've seen suggests that they're about equal, except perhaps in OpenGL performance...

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Post by JazzJackRabbit » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:52 pm

Well, I've read it at ixbt.com, dunno if any other websites have tested GT, you can read english version here.

Don't forget that 6800GT is closer to 6800ULTRA as it also has 16 pipelines, than to regular 6800. Essentially 6800GT is underclocked 6800ULTRA.

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Post by Rusty075 » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:05 pm

Ok, this is completely useless, but just for comparison: If you add up all the percentage difference in scores between the 6800gt and the x800pro in the link you posted, and then divide by the number of scores....you get an average increase in performance of 9%.

A 9% improvement, in exchange for 50% more heat.

You may want to hold off on a purchase of that Aerocool cooler for a little while, there's a review in the works.

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Post by nutball » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:16 am

If my experiences with the previous Zalman (ZM80-C) and GeForce FX5900U are anything to go by, it's probably won't be wise to use the ZM80-D on the 6800. I could be wrong though.

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Post by shathal » Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:28 am

Hehehe.

You want to cool 100+ Watts of heat generation passively?

If you want "no fan" then Watercooling is the way you want to look... :).

Short of mounting a heatsink the size of your case onto the piddly AGP/PCI-E card (where breakage would be a "tad" of a risk :D).
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Post by Rusty075 » Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:01 pm

I wouldn't say that passive cooling of a 6800 is out of the question: NvNews report on Galaxy 6800

Image

Advisable....maybe not. Possible...yes. :lol:
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Post by nutball » Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:03 am

D'oh, yes I'd seen that Galaxy card. It's only a 6800 though, is it not? As against 6800GT/Ultra.

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Post by Rusty075 » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:43 am

The 6800 runs at a core clock faster than the GT, and within 50mhz of the Ultra. The big differences within the line are the memory types and their speeds. (128 of DDR1 on the 6800, to 256 of GDDR3 on the Ultra) That's where the big performance differences are..the core itself is identical.

The core heat is the big issue, the RAM doesn't contribute much. (In fact the DDR3 is supposed to be significantly cooler)

If it will cool a 6800, it'll cool a GT, and probably an Ultra. I'd be willing to bet that Zalman is a member of Nvidia's developer group, and thus knew the wattage of the upcoming product lines. It would seem silly for them to develop an upgrade from their existing HP-80, and not design it to cool the products that they knew were on the horizon.
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Post by JazzJackRabbit » Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:06 pm

Rusty075
Thanks for the link. BTW, did you look at the Galaxy's website? They have a very intriguing flash animation, and it seems that the new arctic silencer will be compatible with nVidia cards too! It's good to know that now the top of the line nVidia cards can be run quiet too.

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Post by Rusty075 » Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:12 pm

Yeah, I did cruise their site...no pics of the zalman-equipped one though.

I hope that means that the Silencer will be 6800 compatible too, but I guess it could be a custom version made just for them. Time will tell
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Post by nutball » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:52 pm

Rusty075 wrote:The 6800 runs at a core clock faster than the GT, and within 50mhz of the Ultra. The big differences within the line are the memory types and their speeds. (128 of DDR1 on the 6800, to 256 of GDDR3 on the Ultra) That's where the big performance differences are..the core itself is identical.
I was under the impression that the 6800 core was a GT/Ultra core with 4 of the 16 pipes disabled (ie. the dies in which 1 quad has a defect). So one might naively assume 75% of the heat output at the same clock.

You're right about the RAM, DDR1 and DDR3 are heaps better than DDR2 wrt heat output.

Anyway, I'm not going to bicker (any more than I already have :D), I hope you're right and that a fully passive Zalman is possible for a GT (which is the card I've got my eye on).

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Post by hydroxyhydride » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:10 am

Any more thoughts on slapping a ZM-80D + 5V panaflo on a non-ultra/non-gt 6800? Thats basically what the Galaxy Card is right?
I'm an ATI person but their OpenGL and Linux drivers leave much to be desired. I plan on running a 64-bit linux distro and that rules out ATI at the moment.
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Post by Jan Kivar » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:14 am

Rusty075 wrote:Yeah, I did cruise their site...no pics of the zalman-equipped one though.

I hope that means that the Silencer will be 6800 compatible too, but I guess it could be a custom version made just for them. Time will tell
I think I saw one pic (from Computex?) where two versions of the new VGA Silencer (is that rev. 4?) were shown; one for ATI, one for nVidia.

Cheers,

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Post by Rusty075 » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:08 am

That would truly suck. (there's my technical analysis of having separate Ati and Nvidia models)

Arctic Cooling needs to come up with a mounting mechanism that will work with either one, or package each silencer with an interchangeable mechanism. (like Zalman does)


Ideally there would eventually a standardized GPU HS mounting mechanism....but that's really, really unlikely to ever happen, for a variety of reasons.
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Post by hero » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:15 pm

Rusty075 wrote:Ok, this is completely useless, but just for comparison: If you add up all the percentage difference in scores between the 6800gt and the x800pro in the link you posted, and then divide by the number of scores....you get an average increase in performance of 9%.

A 9% improvement, in exchange for 50% more heat.
1. Most reports I've heard have the X800 in the mid 60's under load and the GT in the mid 70's.

2. So far everybody I heard of who's tried has OC'd the GT to Ultra speeds whereas the X800 is barely OCing for most, so you should compare the Ultra benchies to get a realworld comparison for us enthusiasts.

3. NVidia drivers are wonders. They brought the 5900 from languishing to competitive. ATI's driver releases obviously also increase performance, but not nearly as much, historically, as NVidia's.

If I'm wrong about the heat, then I'd like to know. Also, this is all pointless as either card is rediculously powerful...but arguing the minutia is what makes us geeks, so.

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Post by wumpus » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:26 pm

A 9% improvement, in exchange for 50% more heat.
I agree with this; it's a fact. It is somewhat faster, but at a terrible cost for quiet enthusiasts: massive increase in heat output.

Just look at the wattage numbers quoted in the original reviews at tech-report, tomshardware, anand, etc. They all show the same results: nVidia eats a LOT more power.

You just have to decide what's more important to you. I do agree the 6800 is clearly better tech this time around, though..

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Post by hydroxyhydride » Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:07 pm

The main reason I'm tempted by the 6800GT is because nVidia's linux and 64-bit drivers are superior....ATI where are my 64-bit linux drivers??

From a silent pc perspective, it'll just be more of a challenge to use an nVIdia card. Whats the point of a silent machine if it doesn't meet your needs? :)
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Post by JazzJackRabbit » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:39 pm

OK, I emailed both zalman and arctic silencer support inquiring if they will support nVidia 6800 anytime soon and here's what they had to say.

Zalman
Hello,

Thanks for your kind enquiry. Actually, ZM80D-HP is not compatible with nVidia 6800series because of no mounting hole for our cooler in the card. Currently we are working on an installation package for that card and its release will be posted in our website when it is done. So, please be patient for a while.

Best regards,

Support/ Zalman


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: xxx@xxx.xxx [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx]
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 2:21 PM
To: support1@zalman.co.kr; support2@zalman.co.kr
Subject: ZM80D-HP nvidia6800 compability?

???? : xxx
???뼓PAN lang=EN-US> : Hello,

I'm planning to purchase nVIdia 6800 series video card but I also want to keep the noise down. Have you tested the new ZM80D-HP video-card cooler with the nVidia 6800 series? Is it compatible with the 6800 lineup?

Thank you, xxx
Good news, it seems that zalman will put out a new cooler specifically for 6800, let's just hope it won't be too expensive seeing that they had to design it specifically for 6800. No precise date is available...

And Arctic Silence:
1. yes

2. No there will be just one mode, since a lot of VGA cards have
already
a thermal control onboard. It will be 2 to 3 times quieter than the
stock cooler.

3. They will be available in about 6 weeks.

Best Regards
___________________________________

ARCTIC COOLING Support
Magnus Huber



-----Urspr?he Nachricht-----
Von: xxx xxx [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Juli 2004 03:52
An: help
Betreff: Re: AW: Arctic Silencer rev4 for nvidia6800?


Dear Magnus,

Could you please elaborate more on your previous
reply?
1.Will any of the upcoming coolers support nVidia 6800
cards?
2.How loud are they going to be? Will they have a
silent mode just like Arctic Silencer Rev2/3?
3.What's the approximate launch date?

Thank you, xxx

--- help <help@arctic-cooling.com> wrote:
> We will also have 5 new coolers for Nvidia cards.
>
> Best Regards
> ___________________________________
>
> ARCTIC COOLING Support
> Magnus Huber
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?he Nachricht-----
> Von: xxx xxx [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Juli 2004 07:07
> An: help@arctic-cooling.com
> Betreff: Arctic Silencer rev4 for nvidia6800?
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I know from reading on the forums that you are
> planning to release a new revision of arctic
> silencer video-card cooler
> (rev4) that will be compatible with ATI X800Pro/XT
> cards. However, I
> prefer nVidia, so I was wondering - will this new
> revision also support
> nVidia 6800 lineup? And if so when will the new
> product become
> available?
>
> Thank you, xxx
So it seems Arctic Silencer is also working on a cooler for nVidia 6800. Once again, it seems that 6800 has different mounting holes, so they'll have to build an entirely new cooler. I'm a little sceptical about 6 weeks date since they said it will take they 4 weeks to put out a cooler for 800pro/xt and it still isn't here.

Well, all in all, I think it's good news - at least we know that it will be possible to quiet down modern videocards to an acceptable level, even if we'll have to wait couple of months... 8)

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Post by Compddd » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:07 pm

I can speak from first hand experience. I have a BFG 6800GT, these suckers do run very very hot and there fans are very loud compared to the ATI 9800XT which I had before this. The 6800GT's fan loves to stay in medium-high mode even when your in 2D mode just surfing the net. So unless one of the new artic cooling vga silencers fit the 6800GT, it will be going back when the X800XT Platniums are in stock.
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Post by Chaz » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:28 am

I have never had a BFG card, but I did have a vision with an Arctic Silencer V3, an eVGA 5700 ultra and my Dremil. The stock fan was loud and inefficient, which made the card run in the low 60s under load. Now, it runs in the low 40s and the case temp has dropped 5 deg. The fan is hardly audible, on high, in my Aria case. I am sold on Arctic Silencer and eagerly await the official release of their NV product line. In short, if BFG's Stock cooling is anything like eVGA's then their should be a huge improvement with Arctic's after market cooler.

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Post by JazzJackRabbit » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:36 pm

Rusty075 wrote:A 9% improvement, in exchange for 50% more heat.
Heh... Looks more like a 52% improvement to me... Even beats 800XT 8)

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Post by Rusty075 » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:43 pm

Yes, if you only ever want to play that one game....:wink:

....and I'm sure the fact that Nvidia was involved in the development of the game's engine had nothing to do with it.....


...Ah, I love the smell of tweaked drivers in the morning.
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Post by wumpus » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:50 pm

That said, it looks as if ATI's decision to scale their current line of flagship video cards by crippling the Radeon X800Pro’s graphics pipelines to 12 pipes, instead of the 16 pipes of the Radeon X800XT-PE might have been a bad move, at least in terms of satisfying DOOM 3 players. NVIDIA on the other hand chose to scale from their Ultra to GT models by only decreasing the clock speed of the GPUs. The NVIDIA 6800GT certainly stood out among the crowd as its DOOM 3 framerates continually outpaced the Radeon X800XT-PE that currently has a list price that is $100 more than the GeForce 6800GT. NVIDIA has told us more than once that the 6800 series was “designed to play DOOM 3,” and the truth of that statement is now glaringly obvious.
Seems true enough. The difference is fairly substantial (50 percent!) for the "low end" X800 pro and the 6800gt.

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Post by Splinter » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:30 pm

Tweaked or not, what matters is the end product.

I don't care if nVidia payed iD thousands of dollars to deliberately cripple ATi's performance, I'll buy whatever makes the game run best and screw corporate politics.

Fact: The corporation does not care about you. It does not care about video games. It cares about making money any way it can. Wether it takes the sleezy route or the less sleezy route, all it wants is the money out your pocket.

Either way, they're going to take it, so I might as well get something that works, instead of what some bizarre sense of ethics deems to be the 'right' choice.

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Post by nutball » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:31 am

Splinter wrote:Either way, they're going to take it, so I might as well get something that works, instead of what some bizarre sense of ethics deems to be the 'right' choice.
It's "right" if you live on Planet Fairyland. "Least worst" might be a better way to look at it.

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Post by JazzJackRabbit » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:26 am

Rusty075 wrote:...Ah, I love the smell of tweaked drivers in the morning.
1.Who cares if they are tweaked? As long as those tweaks do not affect picture quality I'm all for tweaked...
2.Why can't ATI tweak their drivers for Doom3?


In any case 6800GT is a sweet piece of hardware, at least as fast as 800PRO sometimes approaching 6800ULTRA/X800XT level, relatively inexpensive (as inexpensive as a high-end card can be) and has excellent drivers. And you should consider that 6800 series is already becoming widely available while ATI still struggles to put any of its new cards on the market. If 6800GT can be cooled effectively with Arctic Silencer this would be the card to get. That said, considering the cost of an aftermarket videocard cooler upgrade, the $370 asking price for GT is still a little high for me, I'm probably gonna wait till the price comes down to 300ish and for the reviews of new Arctic Silencer, see if it's as quiet as Rev3 and if it can cool GT adequately.

BTW when is the Aerocool review coming out?

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