7600GS passive, 32W

[Aris]

Do you have any reference to point to that states what you say about heat? In particular, a passive video card reaching 90C and video card being cooled with a load temp of around 60-65C not having a different effect on case temp?

a set amount of power goes into a video card. that amount of power doesnt change just because you put a new heatsink on it. also, the percentage of power that gets transformed into heat doesnt change when you put a new heatsink on it. this is all within the circuitry, before the power ever even makes it to the heatsink.

if you have like a v-1 ultra with an 80mm fan on it keeping a card a cool 50c or so. that same amount of heat still goes into the case, its just not at the video card anymore, its someplace else in the case. then lets say you got the stock heatsink on it and it gets up to 80c. its still outputting the same amount of heat as with the V-1 ultra, except that the heat is being moved more slowly away from the card into the rest of the case.

all a heatsink does is MOVE X amount of heat from position A to position B. it doesnt change the amount of heat produced in the first place.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hello,

Aris is correct. The video card always produces the same amount of heat energy, given the same task. The more effective heatsink moves the heat away more quickly, and hence the temperature stays lower. If the heatsink is less effective, it moves the heat energy away more slowly, and therfore the temps climb higher.

But in the end, the heat energy that has to be absorbed into the case/air is exactly the same in either situation.

Think of it another way: a good heatsink has a lot of surface area, and the poorer heatsink has less surface area. If you can spread the same amount of heat energy over a larger surface area, the temp at any one spot is going to be lower.

[JVM]

Hello,

Aris is correct. The video card always produces the same amount of heat energy, given the same task. The more effective heatsink moves the heat away more quickly, and hence the temperature stays lower. If the heatsink is less effective, it moves the heat energy away more slowly, and therfore the temps climb higher.

But in the end, the heat energy that has to be absorbed into the case/air is exactly the same in either situation.

Think of it another way: a good heatsink has a lot of surface area, and the poorer heatsink has less surface area. If you can spread the same amount of heat energy over a larger surface area, the temp at any one spot is going to be lower.

And that is also true with a fan/heatsink combination cooling the video card? In other words, a passively cooled video card reaching 90C has no different effect on the case temperature with a video card being cooled by say a Zalman VF700 reducing the card's temperature to 60-65C?

[NeilBlanchard]

Hello JVM,

Yes, that is what we are both saying.

Device produces X heat energy.

Heatsink dissipates X heat energy.

Temperature = X / surface area * air flow

The heat energy that has to be dissipated is always the same, for any given device doing a given task.

If you have more surface area and/or more air flow, then the temp is lower than if you have less surface area and/or less air flow.

And since the device always produces the same amount of heat, no matter how it is cooled -- it always adds the same amount of heat into the case.

[Aris]

The only way your going to reduce the amount of heat the card outputs is to lower the amount of power going to the card, via lowering its operating voltage. now i'm not exactly sure how to lower voltages on video cards(or if its even possible), but if a voltage is too low for a given clock rate then you will have stability issues with the card. theirfore to reach lower voltages you may have to lower clock rates to retain stability. as with anything, their is a minimum and maximum ever component can be clock'd to. barriers may be either software or hardware.

the same all also applies to CPU's, and memory, and basically everything electronic inside the case really. everything runs on a specified voltage. lowering the operating voltage of things lowers its heat outputs, but causes stability issue's if the new voltage cannot support the given clock rate.

[Landroval]

I wonder how much effect the heat will have from the 7600GS on your system temperatures?

The 7600GS uses less energy and produces less heat than the 7600GT, so it will have less effect on system temperatures than the GT. Simple as that.

[frostedflakes]

Actually, temperature does have a slight effect on power consumption. Xbit Labs did some very good measurements on this here. But even for such a large difference as 60*C and 90*C you probably wouldn't be looking at more than a watt or two difference, i.e. the amount is negligible and I wouldn't let it effect your decision on VGA cooling. Just kind of an FYI thing.

[JVM]

Hello JVM,

Yes, that is what we are both saying.

Device produces X heat energy.

Heatsink dissipates X heat energy.

Temperature = X / surface area * air flow

The heat energy that has to be dissipated is always the same, for any given device doing a given task.

If you have more surface area and/or more air flow, then the temp is lower than if you have less surface area and/or less air flow.

And since the device always produces the same amount of heat, no matter how it is cooled -- it always adds the same amount of heat into the case.

This has been most enlightening -- my thanks to both Neil and Aris

Now the choice of 7600 GS and 7600 GT becomes somewhat more problematic. I suppose the 7600 GT isn't really needed because I only play chess and baseball on the computer, and the 7600 GS will probably be all I need and do it without any fan noise.

Ahh, decisions, decisions

[TomZ]

Hello JVM,

Yes, that is what we are both saying.

Device produces X heat energy.

Heatsink dissipates X heat energy.

Temperature = X / surface area * air flow

While I agree with your conclusions, I have a problem with a couple of your "equations." Maybe it doesn't matter, but in the interest in getting the full story...

Device produces X heat energy (ok, I agree with that)

Heatsink dissipates X heat energy (almost, but that assumes all the heat passes through the top of the case and transfers to the heatsink. In reality, some of the heat is dissipated through the PCB side of the component. The amount depends on a lot of factors, for the device types like we're talking about here, probably 75-90% goes into the heatsink)

Temperature = X / (surface area * air flow) (this is okay, as long as you don't take it too literally, and put in the parenthesis that I'm suggesting. In other words, it is not a direct formula like V = I * R. Temperature is actually calculated as temperature rise = thermal resistance * power. Thermal resistance decreases with increasing surface area and increasing air flow, as well as other factors, e.g., thermal compound. The actual formula is pretty complex; I'm not sure there is even a direct formula to calculate thermal conductivity. It would probably require simulation.)

[HueyCobra]

the XFX 7600GS XT in SLI actually performs better(in 3DM06) than a 7900GT according to this review:

That looks really promising. I hope more partners come out with overclocked and/or improved heatsink GSs. And I'm still hoping that we'll see a factory passive 7600GT (probably ASUS or Gigabyte), but I'm more than happy to take SLIed OCed 7600GSs if that's equivalent to a 7900GT.

hmmm how much does a 7900GT costs? is it really worth the two of them compared to just purchase a single 7900GT?

That depends on whether you mind paying a slight premium (for two 7600GSs over one 7900GT), and the other issues to do with noise, heat and useage of slots. The heat of a SLI setup would be my only concern, but not enough to deter me.

[atha]

And I'm still hoping that we'll see a factory passive 7600GT (probably ASUS or Gigabyte),

Gigabyte has this kind of passive 7600 GT coming, but I haven't seen it yet in stores.

[HueyCobra]

Gigabyte has this kind of passive 7600 GT coming, but I haven't seen it yet in stores.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't see it on this page, should have been looking here instead.

Between OCed 7600GSs and passive 7600GTs (ASUS have announced one too), my next computer is all sorted

[NeilBlanchard]

Greetings,

And I'm still hoping that we'll see a factory passive 7600GT (probably ASUS or Gigabyte),

Gigabyte has this kind of passive 7600 GT coming, but I haven't seen it yet in stores.

It is for sale at NewEgg.

It is a double-wide, though:


If it comes down to it, the single-wide 7600GS seems to be a better card? 12 pipes vs 8, higher clocks, and lower power, with more room for air flow around the card.. Has anybody tried SLi with two monitors?

[Edit: D'oh! Wrong model -- but interestingly, the HS looks almost the same?]

[piglickjf]

Greetings,

And I'm still hoping that we'll see a factory passive 7600GT (probably ASUS or Gigabyte),

Gigabyte has this kind of passive 7600 GT coming, but I haven't seen it yet in stores.

It is for sale at NewEgg.

It is a double-wide, though:
[snip image]

If it comes down to it, the single-wide 7600GS seems to be a better card? 12 pipes vs 8, higher clocks, and lower power, with more room for air flow around the card.. Has anybody tried SLi with two monitors?

Maybe I'm, missing something, but the card NeilBlanchard linked to is a passive 7600GT, while the one you linked to at Newegg is a passive 6600GT.

PigLick

[JVM]

The only Gigabyte 7600GT I can find at Newegg is the standard fan/heatsink model.

On the Web site of Gigabyte, there is no information about clock speeds, but it does state: Supports PCI Express and 12 pipelines

[HueyCobra]

On the Web site of Gigabyte, there is no information about clock speeds, but it does state: Supports PCI Express and 12 pipelines

Clock speeds appear rarely (if ever) on the Gigabyte website, so it's safe to assume that their cards are at reference stock. They're probably sensible enough to note any overclocked or underclocked products, though some people may have been caught out by the 6600GT with Silent-Pipe II. Can anyone spot the problem with those specs?

[Edit: D'oh! Wrong model -- but interestingly, the HS looks almost the same?]

That's the Silent-Pipe II HS. It appears to be a standard part with no outwardly visible variations between the cards it's featured on. Hard to say whether the actual implementation differs significantly. At any rate, it will be very interesting to see how well it cools the 7600GT. The 7600GS is great, but a passive 7600GT would be even nicer.

[JVM]

On the Web site of Gigabyte, there is no information about clock speeds, but it does state: Supports PCI Express and 12 pipelines

Clock speeds appear rarely (if ever) on the Gigabyte website, so it's safe to assume that their cards are at reference stock. They're probably sensible enough to note any overclocked or underclocked products, though some people may have been caught out by the 6600GT with Silent-Pipe II. Can anyone spot the problem with those specs?

[Edit: D'oh! Wrong model -- but interestingly, the HS looks almost the same?]

That's the Silent-Pipe II HS. It appears to be a standard part with no outwardly visible variations between the cards it's featured on. Hard to say whether the actual implementation differs significantly. At any rate, it will be very interesting to see how well it cools the 7600GT. The 7600GS is great, but a passive 7600GT would be even nicer.

How successful is the Silent Pipe II on the 6600GT? I believe the 7600GT draws more power than the 6600GT.

[HueyCobra]

How successful is the Silent Pipe II on the 6600GT? I believe the 7600GT draws more power than the 6600GT.

From what I recall, most reviews were generally satisfied with the Silent-Pipe II's cooling performance. Of course their results varied but temps were generally safe, and I think I only read one review that claimed dangerous temperatures (100°C+). There were some serious issues with the Silent-Pipe I, but I haven't seen much by way of user reports on the S-P II unfortunately.

As for the power draw, I'm not sure about the difference between the 6600GT and the 7600GT. My suggestion is that the 7600GT would have a slightly higher draw but would otherwise be comparable. Hopefully someone knows the answer to that - I've only read power comparisons between the 7600GT and 6800 series (the 7600GT is considerably lower).

[frostedflakes]

I think it really depends on case airflow. Those who got poor results were probably using it in an open bench setup or in a case with equal intake and exhuast airflow. For best results, the card should be used in an environment with either more exhaust or more intake airflow, as this will allow air to be pulled into or pushed out of the case and over the SilentPipe II heatsink.

Same basic idea that I use to cool my 7900GT with a Zalman ZM80D-HP, so I see no reason why it wouldn't be adequate for a 7600GT. Based on the tests I've seen it consumes slightly less power than a 6600GT.

[JVM]

I think it really depends on case airflow. Those who got poor results were probably using it in an open bench setup or in a case with equal intake and exhuast airflow. For best results, the card should be used in an environment with either more exhaust or more intake airflow, as this will allow air to be pulled into or pushed out of the case and over the SilentPipe II heatsink.

Same basic idea that I use to cool my 7900GT with a Zalman ZM80D-HP, so I see no reason why it wouldn't be adequate for a 7600GT. Based on the tests I've seen it consumes slightly less power than a 6600GT.

All the tests I've seen show the 7600GT draws more power than the 6600GT.

[JVM]

I've seen the stated spec for 7600GT to be 67 watts and xbits showed less for the 6600GT:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/ ... 006_7.html

http://www.rojakpot.com/showarticle.asp ... 299&pgno=0

Geforce 7600GT 51 watts
Geforce 6600GT 48 watts

Source for the above: http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3335&s=8

[HueyCobra]

My suggestion is that the 7600GT would have a slightly higher draw but would otherwise be comparable.

Looks like I was on the money And again, that's just more good news from the 7600G series.

[JVM]

My suggestion is that the 7600GT would have a slightly higher draw but would otherwise be comparable.

Looks like I was on the money And again, that's just more good news from the 7600G series.

And it looks like there will be a passive version of the 7600 GT by Gigabyte and maybe others.

[Aris]

3 watts isnt very much. its very plausible to be within the percentage of error for testing. that may be why its slighly more on some, and slightly less on others.

in any case. the power consumption of a 7600gt is very similar if not identicle to a 6600gt. too close to call IMO.

so any cooling solutions that worked on the 6600gt should work fine for the 7600gt.

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that all said, this thread is about the GS varient. i still think id personally prefer the GS to the GT. from what ive seen on reviews, the 7600gs is basically 6600gt performance, but with less power consumption and a single slot passive heatsink cooling solution.

i do all my gamming on a 6600gt right now with no problems whatsoever, so im certain a 7600gs would be plenty for me.

[JVM]

3 watts isnt very much. its very plausible to be within the percentage of error for testing. that may be why its slighly more on some, and slightly less on others.

in any case. the power consumption of a 7600gt is very similar if not identicle to a 6600gt. too close to call IMO.

so any cooling solutions that worked on the 6600gt should work fine for the 7600gt.

--------------------------------------------------

that all said, this thread is about the GS varient. i still think id personally prefer the GS to the GT. from what ive seen on reviews, the 7600gs is basically 6600gt performance, but with less power consumption and a single slot passive heatsink cooling solution.

i do all my gamming on a 6600gt right now with no problems whatsoever, so im certain a 7600gs would be plenty for me.

Yes, if the performance of the 7600GS is all you need, then that version should do fine. However, there are going to be passive versions of the 7600GT coming out and the question is how much more $ than the 7600GS? And how well they work passively

[NeilBlanchard]

Hello,

The XFX 7600GS is back in stock at NewEgg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814150146

And you can get for a bit less ($7-8 ) at ZipZoomFly:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=321064

[JVM]

And you can save $15 dollars with the eVGA 7600 GS that comes with stock speeds of 400/800:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=322777

[rana]

I've got the eVGA 7600GT in my PC now and I will have the factory-overclocked passive XFX 7600GS in 2 days. I"ll be happy to post any numbers people want once I have both in hand. How do I get the GPU temp since SpeedFan does not display that number?

The 7600GT fan is very loud before windows boots or when running anything 3D (even the old OpenGL 3D pipes NT/xp screensaver or the Folding@home default display), which is why I'm replacing it. Once Windows boots and with no 3D running it is much quieter but still louder then my other components:

• * Zalman CNPS9500 cooler on low
  * Antec SmartPower 450 (single internal 80 mm fan)
  * Stock Sonata 120mm case fan on low
  * Suspended Samsung SpinPoint 250 GB

[JVM]

I've got the eVGA 7600GT in my PC now and I will have the factory-overclocked passive XFX 7600GS in 2 days. I"ll be happy to post any numbers people want once I have both in hand. How do I get the GPU temp since SpeedFan does not display that number?

The 7600GT fan is very loud before windows boots or when running anything 3D (even the old OpenGL 3D pipes NT/xp screensaver or the Folding@home default display), which is why I'm replacing it. Once Windows boots and with no 3D running it is much quieter but still louder then my other components:

• * Zalman CNPS9500 cooler on low
  * Antec TruePower 450 (single internal 80 mm fan)
  * Stock Sonata 120mm case fan on low

You could have replaced the fan/heatsink on the 7600 GT with a Zalman VF700 for around $29 dollars.

[rana]

You could have replaced the fan/heatsink on the 7600 GT with a Zalman VF700 for around $29 dollars.

Yeah, that is also a reasonable option, but I had some expiring gift certificate $ I needed to spend, and a friend is buying my old card at a reasonable price. That and I had a bad experience with the last Zalman aftermarket passive cooler I installed and I really wanted a stock passive card instead of a quiet fan.