4870x2 vs 4870

Gordon007 · Post by **Gordon007** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:37 am

Hello !
I am building a new computer and wonder if you guys have any ideas regarding ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2?

I have read somewhere else that it is not possible to change the cooler, fan on the card?

I am choosing between ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 or two Radeon HD 4870 crossfire...Will it fit the p182 case?

I want power and silence I know its hard but which should I choose?
I will use an P182 case, Artic coolong Accelero S1 VGA Cooler, AcoustiPack Deluxe v2 Noise Dampening Material and Smart Drive 2002 Copper Cool, Quiet Hard Drive Enclosure.

Chassi: Antec P182 svart
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article741-page1.html[/url]

Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 VGA Cooler and a nexus 120 mm fan
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article793-page5.html

Sorry for the bad english

Elvellon · Post by **Elvellon** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:48 am

Computer ate my nice long post... Basically:
- Everything will fit, you may need to remove the top HDD cage.
- 4870s with Accelero: no heat exhaust, takes a lot of slots, cool & controllable.
- Stock 4870s: heat exhaust, may be noisy (you should check up or ask somewhere).
- 4870X2: exhaust, less lag in games (new internal bridge), may be very noisy (check up).

Gordon007 · Post by **Gordon007** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:42 pm

Thanks for the reply, yes I have something to think about if I really want a quit computer I may have to skip the 4870x2. But i am no sure enough I ll do some more research first...

soloman02 · Post by **soloman02** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:40 pm

For noise it depends where you used to be. My computer used to be running at 45+ decibels (which is freaking loud mind you, think vacuum cleaner). Now my loudest fan is 24dBa. I am quite sure I could live with 30-35dBa especially since I had the horrible stock cooler on my 8800GT for 6 months. I couldn't stand the 8800GT stock cooler because it was a high pitched wine. If the X2 is not high pitched, I could probably tolerate it at 35dBa (but not higher). It does come down to personal preference. I suggest waiting until someone like Anandtech does a complete review on the X2 with the new ATI drivers. Hopefully crossfire performance increases with said driver and that prices on the 4870 have decreased. And hopefully someone does a complete sound analysis on the X2.

Only previews are out and they do not cover the noise or heat output in depth yet.

Gordon007 · Post by **Gordon007** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:03 am

Thanks for the discussion, I recently found a test http://techreport.com/articles.x/15105/7
where they take up nosie levels with orignial coolers, how reliable is this test do you think? If I do change coolers how much quiter in db will it be any suggestions? If you think of the 4870x2 (52.2) and 4870 (42.5)?

/ Gordon

krille · Post by **krille** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:22 am

I would definitely pick the single HD 4870X2 as it sports 1024 MB RAM per core instead of 512MB per card in the case of HD 4870 CF. I doubt you'll get a quiet system either way.

Get Zalman's 850W PSU (ZM850-HP) as it's the quietest you'll get at a 400w+ kind of load.

To get an idea of 4870 CF power consumption, check out AnandTech's chart: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atir ... /17144.png

The S1 won't work with the 4870X2 however. I'd suggest going water-cooling either way if you want a quiet system at these kinds of load.

soloman02 · Post by **soloman02** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:21 pm

If I recall correctly, there were no aftermarket coolers made for the 3870X2. There may have been one or two water coolers made. So unless you want to invest in water cooling, the stock cooler is what you have to live with. If you put some Arctic silver 5 on the stock X2 cooler, you may be able to have semi-quiet at idle with respectable temperatures. Load however will most likely be very noisy.

Gordon007 · Post by **Gordon007** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:10 am

Thanks for the information provided. I think I am going to choose 4870 because I dont want watercooling but I dont know...
Here is my future computer

viewtopic.php?p=422912#422912

// Gordon

krille · Post by **krille** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:43 am

I don't know about the 3870X2 specifically, but generally VGA/GPU blocks are so small that you can easily fit two non-specialized ones on a "double-card". If you don't want water-cooling, 4870 CF is indeed the better solution through a noise perspective (although for performance the extra VRAM of the X2 is most important on the high resolutions required to make multi-GPU solutions shine).

Gordon007 · Post by **Gordon007** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:51 am

Krille if you bought a 4870x2 and had to cool it without watercooling what should you do? It feels like you got this under controll.
I dont get it why the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 VGA Cooler and a nexus 120 mm fan would not work need some explanation (I am a noob on this)...

krille · Post by **krille** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:32 pm

Gordon007 wrote:Krille if you bought a 4870x2 and had to cool it without watercooling what should you do? It feels like you got this under controll.
I dont get it why the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 VGA Cooler and a nexus 120 mm fan would not work need some explanation (I am a noob on this)...

I'd place the case in another room or invest in some really quiet headphones and turn up the volume. If neither is an option, I guess I'd avoid 3D games (I did that for the brief time I had an 8800GTX 768

).

The reason the S1 VGA cooler wouldn't work is because it's only got one base. The X2 cards have two cores and both need to be cooled. Thus you either need a cooler with two bases that both are aligned correctly or two very small coolers (one per core).

Picture of the underside of an S2 (S1 is just larger, the base should be the same): http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/coolers/ ... 5_s2_r.jpg

4870X2: http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8990 ... pcbqt9.jpg

You should be able to fit two VF900s. It may be pushing it, but if you're lucky it will work and definitely be quieter than stock. Make sure you have good airflow in your case though, that's #1 for high-wattage cards on non-DHES (direct heat exhaust system) cooling or the hot air will just be recycled and boom.

edit: The best option would probably be to wait for 4870 1GB cards and CF them. If you're dead set on 2x1GB.

Suosaaski · Post by **Suosaaski** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:49 pm

krille wrote: You should be able to fit two VF900s. It may be pushing it, but if you're lucky it will work and definitely be quieter than stock.

I really doubt VF900 will be able to handle the load of 4870 (or 4870x2).

Gordon007 · Post by **Gordon007** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:12 am

I am planning to use my computer for playing poker (my job) for most parts and some new games. When I play poker will the 4870x2 scream out its pain then or is it just in new computergames?
Because if it is quit enough in "pokermode" and loud in games I can just use my headphones...

One more question to bother you guys with, if you compare the 4870x2 vs 4870 with 1 GB (not out yet) how big of a diffrent is it between them?

krille · Post by **krille** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:40 am

There will probably not be any tangible difference between 4870X2 and 4870 1GB CF. Neither is out yet, though. As for idle noise, I reckon it could be acceptable. Don't know, check reviews once it's out. It's a lot about how sensitive you are. Noise-levels on high-end cards can be amazingly acceptable at idle.

Suosaaski wrote:
krille wrote: You should be able to fit two VF900s. It may be pushing it, but if you're lucky it will work and definitely be quieter than stock.
I really doubt VF900 will be able to handle the load of 4870 (or 4870x2).

It handles the load of 4850 just fine (there are OC'ed versions of 4850 coming with VF900 stock). It may very well handle a 4870 with good airflow. I'm not sure though, thus "it may be pushing it".

Suosaaski · Post by **Suosaaski** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:22 am

krille wrote:It handles the load of 4850 just fine (there are OC'ed versions of 4850 coming with VF900 stock). It may very well handle a 4870 with good airflow. I'm not sure though, thus "it may be pushing it".

Yeah, but at least standard 4850 is 50W less (according to TDP) than 4870, so the 4870 might be too much.

FartingBob · Post by **FartingBob** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:06 am

Anything kless than a 30" monitor and your unlikely to gain more than a few fps in a few games with the x2. The 4870 is good enough to play every non-crysis game at max settings.
Why some people choose a GPU that costs twice as much because they get 100+FPS compared to 70FPS is a curious one. Anything over 60 is basically pointless, no matter how good your eyes and monitor is.

Of course, if you do plan on gaming at 4MP then you should look into crossfire or the x2.

krille · Post by **krille** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:54 am

It's more like a 30W real-world difference between 4870 and 4850 afaik. Unless you can think of a better after-market cooling solution, I think it's worth a try.

FartingBob wrote:Anything kless than a 30" monitor and your unlikely to gain more than a few fps in a few games with the x2. The 4870 is good enough to play every non-crysis game at max settings.
Why some people choose a GPU that costs twice as much because they get 100+FPS compared to 70FPS is a curious one. Anything over 60 is basically pointless, no matter how good your eyes and monitor is.

Of course, if you do plan on gaming at 4MP then you should look into crossfire or the x2.

Because you can ramp up resolution and eyecandy and play with VSync at acceptable framrates (40+ imo). 1920x1200 is quite common today. 2560Ã—1600 and 3840Ã—2400 displays are available (at smaller sizes than 30", for example there are 3840x2400 22" LCDs) if you got cash and can power them. Plus, maybe they just don't like upgrading every few months and/or like Crysis?

soloman02 · Post by **soloman02** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:07 pm

VF900 will definitely work.
Sapphire has a 4850 with the VF900 available.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102760

leifeinar · Post by **leifeinar** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:32 am

i got dual vf900 on my 3870, it vorks fine. im using the NOCTUA fan adapter, it gives just enough voltage to start the fans, but its sufficient to cool the card. this is much lover voltage than the fanmate 2 gives. so a vf900 at some speed would work.

main problem is cooling VRM's

but all in all i dont know if i would recomend doing this because it quite complex.

think its time we see some proper vga coolers, 3 slots, fat heatpipes and a 12cm radial fan

soloman02 · Post by **soloman02** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:47 am

Also the 4870 does put out more heat so the VF900 may not keep up with it.

Copyright · Post by **Copyright** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:27 am

Just an FYI... the 4870x2 is LOUD when gaming. Mine is fairly quiet at idle but when I go into games the fan ramps up hard to keep it cool. I had a 4870 with the HR-03GT that ran very cool and very quiet.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:14 am

The fact that a certain graphic card is sold with a VF900 tells nothing about how well the cooler does its job.
What if it have to run at full speed?

If it can't handle a X1950 XTX, then it can't keep the 4870 cool and quiet. It's impossible.

Edit: Just saw this at TR, calling the HR-03 GTX a "monster graphic card killer" sounds. . bad.

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:30 am

Xbitlabs measured the power draw and noise level of the 4870X2, here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/ ... html#sect0
So it's at least as noisy as the 2900XT, and uses 264W of power!

Well, actually I was expecting this. The exhausted air may burn something behind the computer.
The only way this beast could be quiet is with a triple-slot (or maybe quadruple-slot?) cooler, with 2x or 3x the fin and exhaust area than the current stock cooler.

boe · Post by **boe** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:12 am

I was stoked when I bought my 8800GT because it had a very quiet pipe cooler solution on the MSI board I bought. I didn't have to replace it - it was already pretty quiet out of the box (although I noticed the sticker on the fan caused a balance issue so I remove the sticker and the inner plastic ring just about the fan where it would occassionally brush at high speed).

It would be great if somene sold the 4870x2 with a good quiet cooler on board.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:01 am

Tzupy wrote:The only way this beast could be quiet is with a triple-slot (or maybe quadruple-slot?) cooler, with 2x or 3x the fin and exhaust area than the current stock cooler.

Two CPU heatsinks could probably be mounted to it fairly easily. It would be fun to see one with a couple of Ninja Minis mounted.

soloman02 · Post by **soloman02** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:17 am

Two CPU heatsinks could probably be mounted to it fairly easily. It would be fun to see one with a couple of Ninja Minis mounted. Smile

Yea, but they'd weigh so much you would have to lay your case on its side or do a massive modded bracket rig.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:32 am

soloman02 wrote:Yea, but they'd weigh so much you would have to lay your case on its side or do a massive modded bracket rig.

Ninja MIni 580g
HR-03 Series 410g

The stock heatsinks are both solid copper. I don't think weight should be too different.

soloman02 · Post by **soloman02** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:51 am

But you have two Ninja mini's on a 4870X2 for a total of 1.16 Kilograms(1160g). The card with stock heatsink weigh's in at about 2Kg. However, the stock heatsink has a metal bracket along the edges to prevent the PCB from bending under that enormous weight. The two ninja mini's would have no such bracket since the bracket is what holds the stock heatsink cover/fan on.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:25 pm

Iâ€™d rather buy a GTX 280 unless I had a 30â€

twoscoreandfour · Post by **twoscoreandfour** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:42 pm

leifeinar wrote:i got dual vf900 on my 3870, it vorks fine. im using the NOCTUA fan adapter, it gives just enough voltage to start the fans, but its sufficient to cool the card. this is much lover voltage than the fanmate 2 gives. so a vf900 at some speed would work.

main problem is cooling VRM's

but all in all i dont know if i would recomend doing this because it quite complex.

think its time we see some proper vga coolers, 3 slots, fat heatpipes and a 12cm radial fan

Comparing a 3870 to 4870 is not really relevant because the power draw of the 4870 is about double that of the 3870.

TBH I do not think you can get silent AND cool 4870x2s. The heat these things create is gi-normous, and you'll want to be cooling as much as possible

4870x2 vs 4870

4870x2 vs 4870

I'm hoping someone comes out with a fan solution