Radeon HD 4670: A perfect balance?

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Fungi
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Radeon HD 4670: A perfect balance?

Post by Fungi » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:03 am

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3405
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd ... ce_review/
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=15393
http://hothardware.com/Articles/ATI-Rad ... ainstream/
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardw ... ws/hd4670/
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_4670/
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1590/s ... crossfire/

Excellent cost performance and watt performance, as well as size performance (I made that up).

Looks like a great card for the budget-conscious gamer or HD video enthusiast.
Not sure if they can pull a fanless design that doesn't make it longer. Reference fan/BIOS doesn't ramp up the fan too much so temps look really high.
Last edited by Fungi on Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MiKeLezZ
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Post by MiKeLezZ » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:27 am

Best Watt/Performance cards are 8800GT/9800GT
Best Price/Performance card is 9600GT

(Check techpowerup)

HD4670 is a great HTPC card, since it has UVD-2 and LPCM 7.1.
It could made a break in the Price/Performance, but only with a $10/$20 price reduction... since now that chart is owned by HD3870s (new or used).
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Fungi
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Post by Fungi » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:35 am

I can see your point, but also note the low idle power consumption. And by budget conscious, I meant people who would rather save that $20-30 off a 3870. People who want a gaming card and don't mind playing cutting edge games on medium settings (while using low power outside gaming, for people without two separate systems).
I don't know if people with needs similar to mine are a minority, but this card just hits the sweet spot.

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Post by thejamppa » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:17 am

RV 770 LE, i.e. crippled HD 4850 should be released soon to counter 9800GT... HD 4670 has very good performance but its still not same class card has 9800GT which offers some very good bang for the buck atm.

HD 4-series seem to be very good series. Latest releases have been good addition to it.
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Post by QuietOC » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:28 am

I think I found my next video card. The power savings over the HD 3850 are very nice. Though I am sure the 4670 is memory bandwidth limited in nearly all situations. I will be looking for one with extra fast memory.

I could see AMD releasing a HD 4770--a higher clocked 4670 with GDDR5. The expensive memory would kill the price, but could give up to twice the performance for about the same power usage. It might overlap the 4850 as far as price and performance, but at half the power.
MiKeLezZ wrote:Best Watt/Performance cards are 8800GT/9800GT
Sorry, idle and max 2D power are both poor for those. I am so glad I sold my $200 8800GT immediately after buying it (before its price dropped like a rock).
thejamppa wrote:HD 4670 has very good performance but its still not same class card has 9800GT which offers some very good bang for the buck atm.
I would actually argue the GPU in the 4670 is at least above the 3870 and could (given enough memory bandwidth) outperform any G80/G92. Just look at wattage/clockspeeds--the HD 4670 is seriously underclocked.

This is definitely the best low-end card released for $79. nVidia has owned the 128 bit bus low-end gaming market for quite some time 6600GT/7600GT/8600GTS. How much did you have to pay for a 6600GT or a 7600GT or a 8600GT when they were released? They went backwards with 9500GT and should be embarassed.

The 9600GT is fine, but it used to be ATI that had to discount 256 bit bus cards.

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Post by QuietOC » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:48 am


Fungi
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Post by Fungi » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:09 pm

I'm reading some reports of the Sapphire card being loud... may want to wait a bit for other cards.
Or just slap aftermarket cooling on. Is it the same mounting as the 48xx series?

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Post by tehcrazybob » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:30 pm

This is the kind of graphics card I live for, and I was just beginning to think both companies had forgotten about them. Cards with all the features of the modern top cards, with about half the performance and far less than half the power draw, have always been a really good purchase. The last one I had was a 7600gs, and it managed all my games well enough while sipping electricity. Currently, I've got a 9600gt; it's quite a bit hotter but at the time of purchase, it offered probably the best performance per watt available.

However, I've noticed something interesting recently - my computer's performance has actually been growing faster than my demands. I think it's mostly because I don't use bloated software (open-source whenever possible, though I still run Windows) and because I'm not particularly interested in most modern games.

Whatever the reason, though, this puts me in a very interesting position: For the foreseeable future, I will not purchase any new computer parts which do not lower my overall power consumption. I don't want to go backwards in performance, but I'd be willing to buy components with very small performance increases if my power consumption drops appreciably. While the 4670 doesn't fit (it's a performance drop), it's reassuring to see compelling values in that category of cards. I could easily see my next graphics card being a 5670.

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Post by Pyoko » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:44 am

Interesting results no doubt. I was actually waiting for a passive 4850, but this seems to perform decently as well. I would be running it in idle and for HTPC purposes much more than I would use it for gaming, and combined with the much lower price, power usage and temperature means I might have to look into this if they can get out a passive version soon.

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Post by Vicotnik » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:14 am

I'm thinking about selling my 3870 and use a spare old 6200 for a while until this baby arrives in Sweden. The question is if my S1 (first rev) will fit the 4670.
tehcrazybob wrote:However, I've noticed something interesting recently - my computer's performance has actually been growing faster than my demands. I think it's mostly because I don't use bloated software (open-source whenever possible, though I still run Windows) and because I'm not particularly interested in most modern games.
That sounds like me. :)
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Post by thejamppa » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:55 am

there are few bigger coils in reference design of HD 4670. This might cause problem for fitting larger sinks like HR-03 series. However, since accelero's heatpipes are going in interface area, I am pretty sure Accelero S1 rev 2 or S2 would fit HD 4670 and would be easily cooled passively due its Sub 75W power usage.
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Post by Max Dread » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:56 am

Hi

I'm quite new to the world of GPUs and am therefore unfamiliar with timings of release dates, manufacturers getting stock, etc.

Anyhow, I've been researching which GPU to get for a couple of weeks now and want to make a decision soon!!! My PC is out of action until I do and I'm missing it badly!

So the HD4670....it's on my short list. A couple of retailers (here in the UK) have it available as an incoming product, but the majority don't have it on their inventory whatsoever. How long is it likely to be before the HD4670s flood the market and are readily available?

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLYm would anyone care to hazard a guess as to how long it will be until passive versions are sitting in the shops waiting to be bought and cherished? Days, weeks, months?

Cheers

Max

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Post by thejamppa » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:02 am

Unlike 200$ cards, sub 100€, mainstream and entry level cards have rarely been actual intrest of enthusiasts. When 9500GT was released little while ago, non-reference coolers models were released at the same time with reference models. This category cards usually get non-reference models faster than more expensive as they draw less power and custom heatsinks do not need to be designed top notch as over 100W thermal loads.

I'd say we see first passive version in month... However if you can confirm Accelero S1 rev2's or S2's comaptibility, I'd say go for reference model and slap Accelero S-series on it.
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Post by lm » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:03 am

tehcrazybob wrote:Whatever the reason, though, this puts me in a very interesting position: For the foreseeable future, I will not purchase any new computer parts which do not lower my overall power consumption. I don't want to go backwards in performance, but I'd be willing to buy components with very small performance increases if my power consumption drops appreciably. While the 4670 doesn't fit (it's a performance drop), it's reassuring to see compelling values in that category of cards. I could easily see my next graphics card being a 5670.
If your only reason to upgrade is to reduce power consumption, then you should only do it when your parts actually fail, to actually save something. The resources needed for making the new part versus the reduction in power compared to the old part, the pay-back time might be negative, and that's not even considering the time and effort needed for upgrade.

That being said, it seems that the 4670 uses about 4W of power when idle, which is about 10% of what my 8800GTS 512MB uses, and sounds perfect for anyone who needs a discrete graphics card but is not a gamer (not taking into account any special use cases).

At least the Gigabyte model sports Dual Link DVI and dual DVI connectors, so you could use it for running 2 monitors with 2560x1600 pixels on each. Sounds pretty much perfect for productive office work! Had I not a card already, and if I didn't want to game, I'd pick this one most likely.

I'm not 100% on if both DVI ports have Dual Link, though, because that was not clearly expressed in the specs. So two DVI ports, at least one of which has Dual Link.

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Post by Vicotnik » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:59 am

lm wrote:If your only reason to upgrade is to reduce power consumption, then you should only do it when your parts actually fail, to actually save something. The resources needed for making the new part versus the reduction in power compared to the old part, the pay-back time might be negative, and that's not even considering the time and effort needed for upgrade.
That depends on what happens with the old card. In my case for example I can let someone who's buying a new system buy my card instead of getting a new one.
I usually upgrade when an opportunity to get rid of the old stuff arises. :)
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Post by smilingcrow » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:20 pm

lm wrote:If your only reason to upgrade is to reduce power consumption, then you should only do it when your parts actually fail, to actually save something. The resources needed for making the new part versus the reduction in power compared to the old part, the pay-back time might be negative, and that's not even considering the time and effort needed for upgrade.
From my experience people usually sell or give away components that they upgrade so your argument isn’t generally valid.
As for the time required for an upgrade in the case of a VGA card it tends to be very minimal unless you are modding it extensively.

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Post by dhanson865 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:12 pm

for the people mentioning Nvidia cards as good for the bang for the buck I'd counter with viewtopic.php?t=49572

I don't mind buying an Nvidia 6xxx or 7xxx card if it is priced low enough but I won't be buying any 8xxx or 9xxx cards ever, no matter the price.
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Please put a country in your profile if you haven't already.
This site is international but I'll assume you are in the US if you don't tell me otherwise.
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Post by Fungi » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:58 pm

All right, so my Sapphire HD 4670 just arrived, haven't installed it yet. :D
The screws are 43mm apart so the Accelero S1 rev.2 should fit.

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Post by pony-tail » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:18 pm

I am hoping that they will bring out a passive version of this card , I do not need to play games at all on that machine ( I have an Sli machine for games ) it is just for a late night ultra quiet web surfer and the odd download now and then . I have been looking for another Sapphire 3850 ultimate , I have one in another machine and it is brilliant , but a passive cooled 4670 would do the job pretty well - that is if one ever gets made . Until then I am using the onboard graphics which are pretty decent for what they are ( 780g chipset)
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Post by mexell » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:50 pm

Vicotnik wrote:I'm thinking about selling my 3870 and use a spare old 6200 for a while until this baby arrives in Sweden. The question is if my S1 (first rev) will fit the 4670.
tehcrazybob wrote:However, I've noticed something interesting recently - my computer's performance has actually been growing faster than my demands. I think it's mostly because I don't use bloated software (open-source whenever possible, though I still run Windows) and because I'm not particularly interested in most modern games.
That sounds like me. :)
Or me - the only thing I've used my new system to its limit was playing Crysis. But I rarely have time for that; most of the time my Q9300/4850 system is used my wife surfs the net...
[size=75][url=http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49530]My system[/url][/size]

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Post by dragmor » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:02 am

pony-tail wrote:that is if one ever gets made
Both Gigabyte and Powercolour have passive versions of the card (2 slots).

Also the reference designs for the 710 (4550?) are both passive (full and half height). The card has 80SP units, 64bit memory full video acceleration with a TDP of <25w.

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Post by inti » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:28 am

Thanks for mentioning the 4550 - that sounds like the perfect HTPC card, single slot passive <25W. And still faster for gaming than a 3650 - should keep a (very) casual gamer like me happy.

More about 4550:

Picture of it and specs (leaked AMD slide):
http://www.dvhardware.net/article29749.html

September 25 launch date:
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=34

Pricing $45-55
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Post by pony-tail » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:36 am

Both Gigabyte and Powercolour have passive versions of the card (2 slots).
I will have to check these out (a) see if they are available locally (b) see if they will actually fit my machine . They may not be useable in my case mobo combination as it may put the card's heatsink directly on top of the hard drive . In the Antec NSK 3480 the hard drive is on the floor of the case - and my 780g mobo has the pci-e 16 slot one slot down , a combination that makes 2 slot VGA cards an issue.
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Post by Max Dread » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:45 am

pony-tail wrote:
Both Gigabyte and Powercolour have passive versions of the card (2 slots).
I will have to check these out (a) see if they are available locally (b) see if they will actually fit my machine . They may not be useable in my case mobo combination as it may put the card's heatsink directly on top of the hard drive . In the Antec NSK 3480 the hard drive is on the floor of the case - and my 780g mobo has the pci-e 16 slot one slot down , a combination that makes 2 slot VGA cards an issue.

Hi PonyTail

These are amongst the cards Ive short listed as well. Sorry to break the bad news but they are in fact 3 slot designs! - 2 a front 1 at back. The Sapphire 3870 Ultimate is 1 at front, 2 at back. I've been researching these cards for a couple of weeks now. If you can post pics of your system (case/mobo) then I can offer my opinion - for what its worth.

Cheers

Max

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Post by Manabu » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:49 am

inti wrote:Thanks for mentioning the 4550 - that sounds like the perfect HTPC card, single slot passive <25W. And still faster for gaming than a 3650 - should keep a (very) casual gamer like me happy.
It should not be faster than HD3650, as it has less shadders (80 vs 120) and smaller bus (64 vs 128) and run at an lower speed (600 vs 725mhz). It will likely be lower clocked also. But then, if you think it is sufficient performance for you, go for it.

I don't know if it is worth save 10 bucks and get the HD4650, that also has an 10W lower TDP (48W vs 59W). There is also the possibility of getting the 4670 and underclock it.. but this seems like an waste... And anyway, it will be idle most of the time, or running an 3D desktop... as such, both should consume similarly very low power.

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Post by alecmg » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:14 pm

All right, we have 4670 and 4650 in price list (at very close prices), will be getting Sapphire 4670 as soon as it is in stock.
...and slapping my trusted S1 on it of course :lol:


Edit: Can anyone comment on performace and noise of this Asus cooler?
http://www.techpowerup.com/70899/ASUS_R ... merge.html

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Post by thejamppa » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:21 am

Cooler is Accelero L1 OEM cooler and fan shoul spin around 2000 RPM's. Peoplesi n here have said its decently quiet but not silent. Effectiveness: Club 3D / Force 3D uses same cooler to cool down HD 4850, so it should be plenty for HD 4670 which draws almost half less power...
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Post by Fungi » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:26 pm

I got the S1 and will be installing it tonight and posting some results. Just an FYI, it's going to be in a Sonata III with a "front" (more like middle) fan (Nexus) installed. Stock cooling gets 40C idle 65C load.

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Post by Vicotnik » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:06 pm

Fungi wrote:I got the S1 and will be installing it tonight and posting some results.
Looking forward to it. :)

It looks like the inner holes of the S1 must be used (meaning rev 1 of the S1 will not fit). Could you confirm this? If that is the case I will have to sell my S1 rev 1 and get a rev 2.
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Post by Fungi » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:12 pm

Vicotnik wrote:
Fungi wrote:I got the S1 and will be installing it tonight and posting some results.
Looking forward to it. :)

It looks like the inner holes of the S1 must be used (meaning rev 1 of the S1 will not fit). Could you confirm this? If that is the case I will have to sell my S1 rev 1 and get a rev 2.
As posted earlier, the HD 4670 holes are 43mm apart. The S1 rev 2 and S2 do have these mounting holes, but I don't know about the S1 rev 1. Do a quick measurement and see.

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