Radeon HD 4670: A perfect balance?

They make noise, too.

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spc
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Post by spc » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:15 am

"Sapphire Equipped HD 4670 With GDDR4 Memories"

http://vr-zone.com/articles/sapphire-eq ... l?doc=6452
... and carrying 512MB of GDDR4 memory the SAPPHIRE HD 4670 GDDR4 ... The card is cooled by a new large diameter fan based cooler which keeps noise levels to the minimum (<20dBA). ...
The table at the bottom shows : GDDR4 1GB & PCI Graphic External 2 x Power(2x3Pin) !

plympton
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Post by plympton » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:45 am

spc wrote: The table at the bottom shows : GDDR4 1GB & PCI Graphic External 2 x Power(2x3Pin) !
I think that's a mistake (reused table from old review?) - the photo doesn't show any connectors at all, and it's clear enough to see coolers on the memory, and solid caps. Looks like a nice board, actually!
That, and I think GDDR4 is supposed to use less power than GDDR3, right?

-Dan

juamez
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Post by juamez » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:55 am

As stated here, there is yet another passive HD4670!

Big woop, or really something significant?

Mats
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Post by Mats » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:13 am

juamez: I think it looks identical to the one I fixed the link for.

plympton
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Cards with editable PowerPlay states?

Post by plympton » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:46 am

Can anyone confirm or deny whether the HIS, Powercolor or MSI cards have editable (down to .9v?) PowerPlay states? I'm going to pull the trigger on one of these cards, and don't want to get stuck with a high-voltage idle mode.

Powercolor AX4670
Powercolor 4650 w/ SCS3
HIS 4670 IceQ Turbo
HIS 4670 Zalman passive
HIS 4650 Zalman passive

or any of the MSI cards.. I doubt they do have it, but they're cheap and I can slap an 80mm Panasonic to their heatsink if the fans are too loud, so if they have it, then yeah me! :-)

Thanks!
-Dan

lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:59 am

MSI cards come with default BIOS setting at 0.9V (as far as I know), but the question is,
if they are really able to lower voltage so much (the same question applies to all other brands,
including HIS on your wish list).

maf718
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Post by maf718 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:55 pm

Plympton, lechuck speaks the truth, most (all?) 4670 cards you can buy support 0.9V idle in the BIOS, but don't actually have the physical components onboard to allow the undervolt. This sector is very price competitive and I don't know of any manufacturers that are willing to pay for the extra components to allow undervolting; to them I guess it seems like paying money for no measurable advantage in terms of performance.

(If anyone has a 4670 that idles at 0.9V, measured with a multimeter, please post the details in this thread)

Some cards underclock better than others with powerplay, you ideally want one that idles 165mhz on the core. Memory underclocking is less important, but in my case I could save about 2 watts by downclocking the GDDR3 from 1000 to 500mhz at idle.

Don't let this put you off the 4670 though, most cards can idle at somewhere around 13 or 14 watts, even without undervolting, which is less than nearly every other graphics card. See this comparison at hardspell

According to techPowerUp the HIS IceQ Turbo idles 4W less than the Powercolor but has a noisier cooler. I don't know anything about MSI version apart from I heard it doesn't have fan control via the onboard header.

plympton
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Post by plympton » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:14 pm

Well, the HIS just hit free shipping at Newegg, along with the sale and free shipping on the Earthwatts 380 that I kinda need (who wants to JUST replace a PS? That's kinda boring! :-)) So, I can finally pull that smokin' hot 3450 out of the machine and see what's-what.

Thanks for the tips and all!

-Dan

loimlo
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Post by loimlo » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:50 am

I purchased a HIS 4670 IceQ (non turbo) this morning. I'm not sure about 0.9V idle, but the card could underclock core to 165Mhz and memory to 250Mhz. It is very quiet inside P182 while typing these words.

Image

udi13
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Post by udi13 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:50 pm

loimlo wrote:I purchased a HIS 4670 IceQ (non turbo) this morning. I'm not sure about 0.9V idle, but the card could underclock core to 165Mhz and memory to 250Mhz. It is very quiet inside P182 while typing these words.

Image
Hi loimlo
What is the ambient temperature at your place?
Is the fan changing the speed regarding the temp or is it at fix speed (100%)?

Thanks in advance
Udi
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Post by elpibe10 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:35 pm

I've just installed a Thermalright HR-03 Rev A (fanless) on my Asus 4670.

Idles at 42 deg C. Ambient around 24 deg C.
[size=75]Asus P7P55D | i7-860 w/ Noctua NH-U12P SE 2 | Sapphire 5670 512MB w/ Thermalright HR-03 Rev. A Passive | Auzen X-Meridian 7.1 --> Krell KAV-400xi --> Chario Constellation Cygnus | 2 x 2GB Kingston DDR3-1600 CL8 | Crucial M225 128GB SSD & WD AV-GP 1TB | FSP Zen 400W 80Plus Bronze | WiNDy ALCADIA ZR2000 SSV

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Post by loimlo » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:48 am

Room temperature: 15'c. Cold winter.

At idle, it was very quiet and GPU temp is ridiculously low at 35'c, and I can't perceive the IceQ running inside P182. Under load the fan is still quiet but once in a while ramp up if temp beyond trigger point, and it may be disturbing to some people as sound level change dramatically. I've to open my P182 side panel and listen to IceQ within 30cm in order to hear the difference. I can barely hear the IceQ sound inside P182 under load anyway.

HIS 4670 IceQ is a temperature-sensing fan, but the trigger temp, 80'c, is a bit high to me. It took about 40min to reach the trigger temp when running Furmark 1.4. Seriously speaking, I think most of the time the fan would never ramp up in real games.

Image

easyrider
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Re: Cards with editable PowerPlay states?

Post by easyrider » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:08 am

plympton wrote:Can anyone confirm or deny whether the HIS, Powercolor or MSI cards have editable (down to .9v?) PowerPlay states? I'm going to pull the trigger on one of these cards, and don't want to get stuck with a high-voltage idle mode.

Powercolor AX4670
I have the Powercolor 4670 PCS 512.

Standard it is 500/750 (gpu/mem) 0.90 volt at idle, but I have changed this with RBE to 250/500.

easyrider
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Post by easyrider » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:11 am

(I want this in one message, but in my first message I can't insert pictures :( )

Image

Image

udi13
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Post by udi13 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:56 am

loimlo wrote:Room temperature: 15'c. Cold winter.

At idle, it was very quiet and GPU temp is ridiculously low at 35'c, and I can't perceive the IceQ running inside P182. Under load the fan is still quiet but once in a while ramp up if temp beyond trigger point, and it may be disturbing to some people as sound level change dramatically. I've to open my P182 side panel and listen to IceQ within 30cm in order to hear the difference. I can barely hear the IceQ sound inside P182 under load anyway.

HIS 4670 IceQ is a temperature-sensing fan, but the trigger temp, 80'c, is a bit high to me. It took about 40min to reach the trigger temp when running Furmark 1.4. Seriously speaking, I think most of the time the fan would never ramp up in real games.
Thanks loimlo
I think I have to RMA my card because the fan is running at full speed all the time.

BTW:
what driver you are using?
Do you using the driver from HIS website or from ATI website?

Thanks
Udi
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Post by loimlo » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:48 pm

Udi13, what's your temp? I've tested Total War: Medieval 2 on HIS 4670, and GPU reported 65'c max. Btw, easyrider, would you mind sharing your Powercolor 4670 PCS experience with us? It is said that Powercolor 4670 PCS is one of a few quiet out-of-box 4670s.

I'm using ATi Catalyst 8.12 in official website.

udi13
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Post by udi13 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:36 am

loimlo wrote:Udi13, what's your temp? I've tested Total War: Medieval 2 on HIS 4670, and GPU reported 65'c max. Btw, easyrider, would you mind sharing your Powercolor 4670 PCS experience with us? It is said that Powercolor 4670 PCS is one of a few quiet out-of-box 4670s.

I'm using ATi Catalyst 8.12 in official website.
Hi loimlo
Regarding your Room temperature My temp is OK.
But I connect the fan to "Fan Control" so I can control the
Speed of the fan, because other way it is to noise. (100% speed fan all the time)

Sorry for my bad understanding is "ATi Catalyst 8.12 in official website = ATi website?
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fanerman91
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Post by fanerman91 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:07 am

Is there a non-passive cooled version of this card that's near silent when idle?

I'd like to get a 512 MB version of this card because I'm running Win XP 32-bit (my sound card isn't supported by 64-bit OSes) and I don't game much , so I'd like to maximize the system RAM as much as possible. I edit photos so I'd rather have extra RAM than another 512 MB on the card, if possible. (Win 32 limits the total amount of RAM to 4 GB between both CPU and system RAM. I have 4 GB of system RAM so the more RAM in the vid card, the less system RAM I get).

The only passive cooled version of the card on newegg is: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814161266

Newegg lists this 512 MB card as "quiet": http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814161252

I'm not quite sure about how the Win XP 32-bit 4 GB RAM limit works. Right now I'm using onboard video (Radeon 3300 on a Biostar AM2 mobo) which seems to have 256 MB of RAM. I have 4 GB of DDR2 RAM in my computer, but Windows says I have 3.25 GB of RAM. If I get a 512 MB card, how much RAM will I have? What if I get a 1 GB card?

Thanks.

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Post by loimlo » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:19 am

udi13 wrote:
loimlo wrote:Udi13, what's your temp? I've tested Total War: Medieval 2 on HIS 4670, and GPU reported 65'c max. Btw, easyrider, would you mind sharing your Powercolor 4670 PCS experience with us? It is said that Powercolor 4670 PCS is one of a few quiet out-of-box 4670s.

I'm using ATi Catalyst 8.12 in official website.
Hi loimlo
Regarding your Room temperature My temp is OK.
But I connect the fan to "Fan Control" so I can control the
Speed of the fan, because other way it is to noise. (100% speed fan all the time)

Sorry for my bad understanding is "ATi Catalyst 8.12 in official website = ATi website?
I didn't change stock cooler. In other words, it's still out-of-box status. As for driver, it's ATi/AMD website.

fanerman91, you may consider Powercolor 4670 PCS 512MB, but I prefer blower design to built-in blade design as blower would push hot air to outside the chassis.

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Post by plympton » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:55 am

fanerman91 wrote:Is there a non-passive cooled version of this card that's near silent when idle?

The only passive cooled version of the card on newegg is: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814161266

Newegg lists this 512 MB card as "quiet": http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814161252
I considered the passive version you posted, but got the other "quiet" HIS card you listed. It'll be here on Thursday, so I'll let you know how quiet it is - I'm replacing a passive 3450 w/ 5v Panaflo blowing on it with this, and I hope there's not much if any increase in noise, or at least character of the noise.

-Dan

udi13
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Post by udi13 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:33 am

loimlo wrote:
udi13 wrote:
loimlo wrote:Udi13, what's your temp? I've tested Total War: Medieval 2 on HIS 4670, and GPU reported 65'c max. Btw, easyrider, would you mind sharing your Powercolor 4670 PCS experience with us? It is said that Powercolor 4670 PCS is one of a few quiet out-of-box 4670s.

I'm using ATi Catalyst 8.12 in official website.
Hi loimlo
Regarding your Room temperature My temp is OK.
But I connect the fan to "Fan Control" so I can control the
Speed of the fan, because other way it is to noise. (100% speed fan all the time)

Sorry for my bad understanding is "ATi Catalyst 8.12 in official website = ATi website?
I didn't change stock cooler. In other words, it's still out-of-box status. As for driver, it's ATi/AMD website.
Thanks loimlo
Like I suspect I think I have faulty card, I will need to use my warranty
And to get a new one.

If some one else have a problem with the fan on HIS 4670 ICEQ
Please share it with us

Udi
Antec NSK 2400, SU380 PSU fan swap to Nexus SP802512L-03,Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H,AMD Dual-Core+4400 65w,WD SATA 250GB AAKS,WD IDE Notebook 60GB,Scythe Mini Ninja CPU Heatsink Fanless,Zalman ZM-NBF47 Fanless Northbridge Cooler,2 X Scythe S-Flex 1200 RPM,Zalman ZM-MFC2,Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-150 MCE,Lite-ON SATA DVD RW X 20 LH-20A1S

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easyrider
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Post by easyrider » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:07 pm

fanerman91 wrote:Is there a non-passive cooled version of this card that's near silent when idle?
According to TechPowerUp, the Powercolor generates less noise in idle and load than the 4670 from HIS.

From the review of the HIS:
Even though a quiet cooler by Arctic Cooling is used, the card can not achieve the low noise levels of the PowerColor HD 4670. Still the card is refreshingly quiet in idle and only gets slightly louder under load.
The HIS generates 24.3 dbA at idle, the Powercolor generates 21.0 dbA at idle.

The noise section of both reviews:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/ ... bo/25.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powe ... 70/25.html

In my case, a Lian-Li PC60, I can't hear the noise of the Powercolor above the noise of the silent Noctua fans at low speed in front of the case. Only at load when it turns at maximum speed I can hear it.
[color=#000000][size=75]Lian-Li PC60 | Nexus NX-4090 | MSI K9N Platinum | Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Brisbane / Arctic Alpine 7
PowerColor HD 4670 PCS | M-Audio Revolution 5.1 | Samsung Spinpoint F1 640GB | Noctua NF-R8 case fans[/size][/color]

fanerman91
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Post by fanerman91 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:42 pm

Thanks easyrider, but I saw from newegg reviews that some people had issues with dual monitor support on the Powercolor.

The "quiet" HIS is also no longer an option because it takes up two slots (more info follows).

I want a Radeon 4670 for it's power usage and performance, but I'm limited by these requirements (when I say "under" and "above", I'm referring to when the mobo is set up in a tower configuration):

-512 MB ideally (I'm using Win XP 32-bit right now and want to have as much system RAM as possible)
-good dual monitor support
-singleslot (the heatsink can spill over underneath the video card, but the video card can't have 2 "slots" that need to be screwed into the case)

The singleslot requirement is due to my sound card, which takes up 2 PCI slots. The second slot (above the sound card chip) only screws into the case and does not take up space directly above the sound card (ie, where another PCI card would fit). My sound card is modded and the second slot above the sound card contains RCA outputs.

It fits like:
-PCI-E slot (for video card)
-PCI slot (only used for plate that screws into motherboard, otherwise there's space)
-PCI slot (for sound card)
Pic of mobo: here

My motherboard has 2 PCI-E slots. The one I've referred to so far is the "main" PCI-E slot. The other PCI-E slot is above the "main" and is the "slave." If I could use the "slave" for the video card, I would not have the 1-slot requirement, but I have not found any information on that (from the manual, contacting the manufacturer, or elsewhere).

I'm considering buying any old 4670 and attaching an aftermarket cooler. What coolers fit onto a 4670 and don't use up too much space underneath the video card?

Thanks

Edit: Based on reviews I've read, it seems like I should be able to use either slot, but the "slave" is limited to 8x and the "master" can go to 16x.

What's the performance difference between 8x pci-e and 16x pci-e for a card like a Radeon 4670?

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Post by loimlo » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:18 pm

fanerman91, Powercolor 4670 takes up dual slots.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage ... -%20Retail

Btw, 4GB issue has something to do with x86 32bit cpu memory address space and nothing to do with XP software or VGA memory amount. A PCI/PCI-E device which would occupy a range of memory addresses is the factor that cpu can't access full 4GB memory. In other words, the more PCI or PCI-E devices, the less memory you wound get under 32bit environment.

Sorry, it's hard for a taiwanese to explain this clearly in Chinglish.

loimlo
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Post by loimlo » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:26 am

Guys, I bought a Powercolor 4670 PCS 512MB for my younger brother. Right now the card's idle temp and noise is more or less the same with HIS counterpart in P182. Yet the card can't underclock so much like HIS one. More on full load later.

Image

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Post by ryboto » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:06 am

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but has anyone purchased the HIS passive HD4650/4670? Newegg says it has a Zalman cooler, it wraps around the card, ideal for my setup, since I'll only have 1 fan in the system. Just curious if it's easy to cool with system airflow.
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Post by TheSilentOne » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:07 am

Just installed Zalman water block Zm-gwb3 for my Sapphire 4670. Passive cooling with Reserator 1.

Changed the waters at the same time, although there seemed to be nothing wrong with the earlier water even it has been used for two years now. Water cooling is actually quite easy.

The idle temps are now 32C, and with 3dmark load 45C and furmark 52C.

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Post by loimlo » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:22 am

Premise: I updated Funmark version from 1.4 to 1.6 and renamed furmark.exe to f.exe :twisted:

I think Powercolor's cooler is noisier (air whoosh, not tolerable) under load than HIS's one, yet the cooling performance is better. Powercolor's 70'c trigger temp is much improved compared to HIS and fan behave much smoother than HIS's steep one. However, Powercolor indeed increases system temp 4'c at load due tio its cooling design in comparison with HIS; whole system with Powercolor draws 96~97W at idle in contrast to HIS's 90~91W. Tough choice to make, I would say.

Image

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Post by udi13 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:56 pm

Hi loimlo
I hope I am not rode, but can you upload a picture of the HIS "Fan Settings" from the RBE - Radeon BIOS editor http://www.techpowerup.com/rbe/

Image

Udi
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Post by loimlo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:49 am

HIS picture
Image

Powercolor picture
Image

Btw, Powercolor 4670 at idle is slightly quieter at midnight. I am sorry that I made a mistake before.

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