coolest gaming card: Radeon HD 4830 vs Geforce 9800GT

They make noise, too.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

Post Reply
krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

coolest gaming card: Radeon HD 4830 vs Geforce 9800GT

Post by krick » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:22 pm

My current system has an overclocked Pentium M @ 2.2 GHz and a Geforce 7600GS. My system was designed to be as quiet as possible using a fanless video card and a Zalman flower type cooler with a very large, undervolted fan. It's all packed into an extremely compact Superflower/TTGI TT-101 case, seen here...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...t-1,721-8.html

This system has served me well for several years, but it's time to move on. Since the new World of Warcraft expansion came out, my system can no longer play it at acceptable frame rates without turning most of the video settings all the way down.

So I'm putting together a new core 2 duo system and I'd like to keep the system as quiet as possible while still being able to play WoW with some of the eye candy turned on.

My plan is to get a Core 2 Duo E7300 and overclock it as high as I can without having to jack up the voltage. I'm going to use a large heatpipe cooler, probably one of the Ninja coolers but I'm open to suggestions. I'm going to stuff it all into an Antec NSK-3480 MicroATX Mid Tower case...
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article763-page1.html
...Overall, the hardest part of the equation for me is the video card.

So far, I think I've narrowed my choices down to the Radeon HD 4830 or Geforce 9800GT but nothing is final at this point. Obviously, WoW doesn't require a top of the line video card or SLI or anything like that so that makes my job a little easier. I've always favored Nvida cards in the past, but I'm hearing good things about the ATI cards, particularly in the area of power consumption. And we all know things that use less power are easier to cool. If the ATI uses significantly less power at idle, that may seal the deal.

I'm planning on putting an Accelero heatpipe cooler on whatever video card I buy, probably combined with a large undervolted fan of some sort to keep it cool.

Is there anything I should consider in this decision that makes the case for one card over the other, or for a completely different card choice altogether?

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7451
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:44 pm

I'm getting 30-60fps in Northrend running my system at 1680x1050 with maxed distance effects. If I replaced my card with a 9800GT or a 4850, I'd expect to see maxed out 60fps.

My suggestion would be to save your money and just upgrade your video card (assuming it's a PCI-e slot and not agp). The 7600GS is your biggest and probably sole bottleneck. If it turns out you need more horsepower for other things, then you can always build a new system, eh?

As for which card to choose, the 4830, 4850, and 9800gt are all fine choices. The 9800GT uses the least power at idle and load. The 4850 uses the most and has the most horsepower. The 4830 is in-between. Lots of benchmarks out there. I'd probably opt for the 9800GT.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:09 pm

CA_Steve wrote:
My suggestion would be to save your money and just upgrade your video card (assuming it's a PCI-e slot and not agp). The 7600GS is your biggest and probably sole bottleneck. If it turns out you need more horsepower for other things, then you can always build a new system, eh?
Unfortunately, my system is AGP, so I'm at the end of the line. There is no upgrade from a 7600GS in AGP-land.

Also, keep in mind that I'm running an overclocked Pentium-M, which is essentially a hopped up Pentium III. The floating point performance is pretty awful.

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7451
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:00 pm

Bummer. I hit that with my previous build. :D

e7300 + 9800GT would work well.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

pony-tail
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:39 pm
Location: Brisbane AU

Post by pony-tail » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:02 am

Firstly I would suggest a Thermalright HR01+ in a NSK 3480 over a Ninja due to it's smaller size and roughly equal performance - and if you can find one a HIS 4850 with the dual slot cooler that blows the heat out the back . I am using Thermalright SI-128 SE coolers in my 3480s but would not recommend their use in a case that small to anyone but a die hard top down cooler fanatic - because in that small of a space they are a pig to get on and off ! Their performance though is excellent . Be aware also that with some motherboards ( ones that have a 1x PCI-E slot above the PCI-E 16 slot ) you wind up with the bottom hard drive mount being unusable with a two slot video card installed .
Small Fast and Silent - Quiet SFF With Gonads!

rpsgc
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 1630
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Portugal

Post by rpsgc » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:57 am

The currently most powerful AGP card is the HD3850. I'm pretty sure it blows the 7600GS out of the water ;). Maybe you could give it a try? It could easily be passively cooled by an Accelero S1 or S2.

Also you have the X1950 Pro which is also more powerful than a 7600GS. I should know, I upgraded to one of those from a 7600GT and I could tell the difference :)
Other cards include the Radeon X1950XT and GeForce 7950GT but those are more difficult to find and quite the power hogs.


According to xbitlabs, idle / 3D power draw:

7600GS: ~14W / ~27W
X1950Pro: ~24W / ~66W
HD3850: ~14W / ~63W


If you're happy with your current system there is no need to replace it. A simple video card upgrade ought to do it :)
Fractal Define R4 | Corsair AX750 | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 | Intel Core i7 4770K w/TRUE 120 Rev. C | 16GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 | Sapphire Nitro+ RX 480 8GB OC | Crucial m4 128GB + Crucial MX100 512GB + WD Blue 1TB + WD Red 4TB | JVC HA-RX900 | Dell U2312HM + BenQ G2400WD | Asus Echelon Mechanical Keyboard | Logitech G400s

Moogles
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:28 am

Post by Moogles » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:40 am

Best thing to do when you computer can't run World of Warcraft at acceptable FPS anymore -- get laid.

That is all.

Sorry I can't help you with your video card conundrum. :)

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:45 am

rpsgc wrote: If you're happy with your current system there is no need to replace it. A simple video card upgrade ought to do it :)
I'm very happy with my current system, but I'm not certain the video card is the bottleneck. I'd hate to drop $100+ on a new video card and cooling solution and still get crappy frame rates.

The other problem is that my current case is VERY narrow. I can't use any video cards that stick up higher than the mounting bracket. This eliminates most aftermarket GPU cooling solutions.

rpsgc
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 1630
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Portugal

Post by rpsgc » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:00 am

krick wrote:Incidentally, how does the HD 3850 compare to the HD 3860? I see that Newegg sells both in AGP.
HD3860? I think you're mistaken, there is no HD3860, perhaps you're referring to the HD3650?


But you might be right. Your CPU could be a bottleneck (alongside the video card). After a quick search it seems that a 2,13GHz Pentium M is about as fast as a 3.6GHz Pentium 4.
Fractal Define R4 | Corsair AX750 | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 | Intel Core i7 4770K w/TRUE 120 Rev. C | 16GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 | Sapphire Nitro+ RX 480 8GB OC | Crucial m4 128GB + Crucial MX100 512GB + WD Blue 1TB + WD Red 4TB | JVC HA-RX900 | Dell U2312HM + BenQ G2400WD | Asus Echelon Mechanical Keyboard | Logitech G400s

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:37 am

rpsgc wrote:
krick wrote:Incidentally, how does the HD 3850 compare to the HD 3860? I see that Newegg sells both in AGP.
HD3860? I think you're mistaken, there is no HD3860, perhaps you're referring to the HD3650?


But you might be right. Your CPU could be a bottleneck (alongside the video card). After a quick search it seems that a 2,13GHz Pentium M is about as fast as a 3.6GHz Pentium 4.
I was mistaken on that model number. I quickly edited my post, but you must have gotten in before I changed it.

If I was to go with a HD 3850, this looks like the best card since none of the aftermarket solutions I can find will fit in my narrow case...

HIS Hightech H385Q512ANP
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814161226

Unfortunately, it's $200. Also, I'm not sure that my 300W seasonic SFX power supply would be able to handle it anyway.

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:01 am

pony-tail wrote:Firstly I would suggest a Thermalright HR01+ in a NSK 3480 over a Ninja due to it's smaller size and roughly equal performance - and if you can find one a HIS 4850 with the dual slot cooler that blows the heat out the back . I am using Thermalright SI-128 SE coolers in my 3480s but would not recommend their use in a case that small to anyone but a die hard top down cooler fanatic - because in that small of a space they are a pig to get on and off ! Their performance though is excellent . Be aware also that with some motherboards ( ones that have a 1x PCI-E slot above the PCI-E 16 slot ) you wind up with the bottom hard drive mount being unusable with a two slot video card installed .

I've pretty much settled on getting this motherboard...

ASUS P5E-VM HDMI Intel G35 Micro ATX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131237
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article785-page1.html

Do you think I should use a top down cooler instead to make sure that the chipset stays cool?

I think I'm going to get a cheap 9800GT and put an Accelero S2 on it.

I was thinking about this palit model ($100 after rebate) since it already has a nice heatspreader attached to the ram. I could remove the stock fan, but leave the ram heat spreader when attaching the Accelero...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814261024

Or I could get this one, which already has an Accelero on it for $160...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814134055
...but since I can get the Accelero cooler and fans for $30, that's not so much of a deal.


With this setup, I'm pretty sure I'll lose the bottom hard drive mount, but that's ok. I'm sure I'll be fine with one of the other mounting locations.

rpsgc
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 1630
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Portugal

Post by rpsgc » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:10 am

Powercolor HD3850 - $125
http://www.directron.com/ag3850512md3.html


I can't say if it's quiet though. But it seems you're pretty much set on buying a new computer so... :P
Fractal Define R4 | Corsair AX750 | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 | Intel Core i7 4770K w/TRUE 120 Rev. C | 16GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 | Sapphire Nitro+ RX 480 8GB OC | Crucial m4 128GB + Crucial MX100 512GB + WD Blue 1TB + WD Red 4TB | JVC HA-RX900 | Dell U2312HM + BenQ G2400WD | Asus Echelon Mechanical Keyboard | Logitech G400s

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:26 am

rpsgc wrote:Powercolor HD3850 - $125
http://www.directron.com/ag3850512md3.html


I can't say if it's quiet though. But it seems you're pretty much set on buying a new computer so... :P
That won't work in my current case since the heatsink sticks up over the top of the card.

If I could just buy a new video card and drop it in, I'd do that, but it looks like due to my case size and my 300W power supply, I'd have to replace both just to do a video card upgrade. Then to get the video card silent, I'd have to spend another $30 plus shipping on an aftermarket cooling solution. And then, my CPU might still be the bottleneck after spending $250-$300.

I know when to throw in the towel. I'm just going to bite the bullet and build a whole new system. My goal is to try to keep it as compact and silent as my current system.

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7451
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:48 am

krick wrote:
I've pretty much settled on getting this motherboard...

ASUS P5E-VM HDMI Intel G35 Micro ATX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131237
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article785-page1.html

Do you think I should use a top down cooler instead to make sure that the chipset stays cool?

I think I'm going to get a cheap 9800GT and put an Accelero S2 on it.

I was thinking about this palit model ($100 after rebate) since it already has a nice heatspreader attached to the ram. I could remove the stock fan, but leave the ram heat spreader when attaching the Accelero...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814261024

Or I could get this one, which already has an Accelero on it for $160...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814134055
...but since I can get the Accelero cooler and fans for $30, that's not so much of a deal.


With this setup, I'm pretty sure I'll lose the bottom hard drive mount, but that's ok. I'm sure I'll be fine with one of the other mounting locations.
Is there something about the P5E-VM HDMI that you really like? It has the Intel GMA on it, that will go unused. It also has as an older gen audio chip.

Top down cooler - generally not needed with decent case airflow and VRM heatsink solution.

9800GT - pick one with a decent warranty and doesn't mind you tinkering with the heatsink :D
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:15 am

CA_Steve wrote:
Is there something about the P5E-VM HDMI that you really like? It has the Intel GMA on it, that will go unused. It also has as an older gen audio chip.

9800GT - pick one with a decent warranty and doesn't mind you tinkering with the heatsink :D
I'm going with the P5E-VM HDMI for several reasons..

1) excellent reviews on all the enthusiast forums
2) it's been around for over a year and all the bugs have been shaken out
3) overclocking features

Truthfully, I really don't care that it has HDMI as I'll never use it. I also don't really care what audio chip is on it as long as sound comes out. I just want it to be stable and reliable and from everything I've read, this is the right board.

I'm getting a Palit GeForce 9800 GT for $97.18 after shipping and a $30 rebate.

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:17 am

I ordered all my parts yesterday...

Code: Select all

Directron:
$127.99  Asus P5E-VM HDMI Motherboard Retail
$129.99  Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 BX80571E7300 Retail
$ 23.99  Samsung SH-S223F SATA 22x DVD Burner OEM
$ 59.99  WD Caviar GP 500GB SATA Hard Drive HD-WD5000AACS OEM
$ 24.99  Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Rev.2 VGA cooler
$  9.99  Arctic Cooling Turbo COOL-Turbo-Module
$  0.00  tax
$ 13.66  shipping

eWiz:
$113.30  Palit nVidia GeForce 9800GT 512MB DDR3 PCI-E NE/9800TXT352
$  0.00  tax
$ 13.88  shipping
$ 30.00  mail in rebate

Newegg:
$ 54.99  Corsair 2x2GB DDR2-800 PC2-6400 Memory TWIN2X4096-6400C5
$  3.85  tax
$  0.00  shipping
$ 30.00  mail in rebate

Ebay:
$ 77.74  Antec NSK3480 Micro ATX case
$  5.99  120mm chrome fan grill x 2
$  0.00  tax
$  0.00  shipping

CrazyPC:
$ 48.99  Thermalright HR-01 Plus CPU Cooler
$ 14.00  Scythe SFLEX 120mm Fan SFF21D
$  4.50  Black Trim Molding 3ft
$  0.00  tax
$  9.56  shipping

=======
$797.40  total (so far)
I'm sure there's a few things I still need, but this should get me started. I'll post some pics in a new thread when I get it all put together.

CA_Steve
Moderator
Posts: 7451
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:12 am

enjoy :D

It continues to amaze me how prices have dropped for decent gaming performance.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

AZBrandon
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:47 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Post by AZBrandon » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:57 am

CA_Steve wrote:enjoy :D

It continues to amaze me how prices have dropped for decent gaming performance.
Yeah no kidding. I recently got bored and put all my old invoices in a spreadsheet. I was embarassed to have spent $295 on a 7800GT video card 3 years ago when they were brand new.
[size=67]Phenom 1090T / 9800GTX+ / Antec P180 / Seasonic S12-600[/size]

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:51 am

AZBrandon wrote:I recently got bored and put all my old invoices in a spreadsheet. I was embarassed to have spent $295 on a 7800GT video card 3 years ago when they were brand new.
I NEVER buy anything at the top of the curve anymore. I bought a Creative 3D Blaster Annihilator Pro GeForce 256 DDR back in the day for $259, which was VERY expensive at the time, and I kick myself for wasting that money.

It was a picky card that wouldn't work with generic Nvidia drivers so I had to use drivers downloaded from Creative. The icing on the cake was the fan failing on it after a few months so I had to spend even more money to buy one of these to replace the fan...

TennMax Lasagna BGA Cooler
http://www.tennmax.com/GF_cooler.htm

AZBrandon
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:47 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Post by AZBrandon » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:43 pm

Haha.. well that is pretty bad, from a SPCR standpoint. I love my 7800GT architecturally. It works with the Zalman VF700, which back in January 2005 was the bomb cooler, plus it's generic enough that I was able to make a custom BIOS for it at the core and memory clock speed and lowered voltage I wanted to run.

Still - leading card I'd buy today is a 4830, which is about a $100 card after rebate. I have to agree that I can't bring myself to even consider buying anything near the top of the curve. I won't touch the bottom either, since it's usually the junk, but somewhere in the middle or middle-low end of the price curve seems to be the sweet spot.

Perfect example is the 4830, IMHO, which from most of the benchmarks I've seen delivers 100% the gaming power as a 4670, while only costing about 25% more, and yet the 4830 has about 75% of the power of a 4870 at less than half the price. That's a great place to be from how I see it.
[size=67]Phenom 1090T / 9800GTX+ / Antec P180 / Seasonic S12-600[/size]

krick
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

Post by krick » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:59 pm

Here's my build in the gallery...
viewtopic.php?t=51264

HammerSandwich
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:21 pm
Location: 15143, USA
Contact:

Post by HammerSandwich » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:46 am

CA_Steve wrote:The 9800GT uses the least power at idle and load. <snip> Lots of benchmarks out there.
Hmmm... Anand's power measurements don't mesh with Techreport's. I wonder what's going on here.

Aris
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:29 am
Location: Bellevue, Nebraska
Contact:

Post by Aris » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:01 pm

HammerSandwich wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:The 9800GT uses the least power at idle and load. <snip> Lots of benchmarks out there.
Hmmm... Anand's power measurements don't mesh with Techreport's. I wonder what's going on here.
The one used in techreport is a 1gb model.

The one used in Anandtech is likely the 512mb version.

Post Reply