3 passive graphic cards

They make noise, too.

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iddo
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3 passive graphic cards

Post by iddo » Mon May 18, 2009 4:58 am

Hello all,
I am looking for 3 different graphic cards - they all should be passive with different performance depanding on task:

1. a GPU for my server - 2d only. cheap, low power and most impotently lowest temp possible.

2. a GPU for my future HTPC - I was thinking about a passive 9600 (gigabyte?) but not sure how cool it runs - there will be decent circulation in the case but these cards still get very warm (why can't they make them like the new Intel quad CPUs - which run under 30c with passive cooling most of the time?!).

3. I GPU for my main PC - I now have a 9800GTX - its the only noisy component in my case (antec 182, passive CPU cooler and Corsair HX 520 supply). I thought about turning it into a passive card using a THERMALRIGHT HR-03 GT or something similar) your ideas?

Thanks,
Iddo

Hezu
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Post by Hezu » Mon May 18, 2009 12:47 pm

1. Some used ancient PCI card perhaps? Or if you are just planning to build this now, then a motherboard with integrated graphics is most likely the best option.

2. Assuming the HTPC is primary for multimedia use and no gaming, then I would say pick a decent motherboard with integrated graphics and HDMI output as that allows easy connectivity to HD TVs and the modern integrated GPUs should offer enough punch for video decoding and desktop use.

3. What sort of usage you intend to do with this setup? I have to admit that I'm not too familiar with the latest trends with higher end graphics...

iddo
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Post by iddo » Mon May 18, 2009 1:21 pm

hi,
1. The server is already working - and I am probably not going to replace the MB any time soon (unless it breaks). What I need to know and wasn't able to find is what is the coolest passive graphic card around.

2. In the HTPC I do want to be able to run games so performance is a factor - I still think a passive 9600GT should be a good option but will love to hear what people think about its thermal status (how hot it gets).

3. Anybody else with thoughts about making a 9800gtx passive?

Iddo

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Post by CA_Steve » Mon May 18, 2009 7:35 pm

are all of these PCI-e? PCI? AGP?

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Post by quest_for_silence » Tue May 19, 2009 3:55 am

iddo wrote:1. The server is already working - and I am probably not going to replace the MB any time soon (unless it breaks). What I need to know and wasn't able to find is what is the coolest passive graphic card around.
With reference to PCIe cards, I guess anything with a thermal envelope under 30w. Currently I prefer ATI solutions (i.e. HD4350, HD4550) over Nvidia ones, but maybe a NVS295, or even some good passive 9400/9500GT are good choices to me, expecially for Linux environments.
iddo wrote:2. In the HTPC I do want to be able to run games so performance is a factor - I still think a passive 9600GT should be a good option but will love to hear what people think about its thermal status (how hot it gets).
If HTPC should also mean sort of small form factor (or even cute and compact mATX chassis, maybe with sub-fair air flow), then I guess its 60+ wattage woul be a bit higher to run the system quiet and cool. Otherwise it should be ok.
iddo wrote:3. Anybody else with thoughts about making a 9800gtx passive?
As BFG currently sells a 9800GT with a passive cooling solution, I guess that a 55nm 9800GTX+ (a few watts less than a 65nm 9800GT card) would run fine as fanless (but, obviously, not in a fanless system).

Cheers,
Luca

iddo
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Post by iddo » Tue May 19, 2009 1:57 pm

Hi all,
everything is PCI-E.

1. I was kind of hoping for some sort of reference (I did a fairly long internet search but found nothing) - a table compering different passive GPUs and how hot they get (really how come nobody made such a thing with so many roundups on the net).

2. Its going to be a large HTPC (I hate micro-ATX) - basically if I will get a table (what I asked above) this will answer this one as well.

3. I already have the 9800GTX (not GTX+). I just wanted to know if anybody had any experience making it passive.

Thanks again,
iddo

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Post by SebRad » Tue May 19, 2009 4:10 pm

Hi, the 2nd thread in this forum is a sticky specifically about video card power consumption with lots of links and pics/graphs in it.
The most comprehensive list is linked off the 4th page, I believe it will help you.
Text graphs of idle and load power for most current cards
Regards, Seb

iddo
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Post by iddo » Wed May 20, 2009 12:51 am

Hi,
Thanks for the informative list.

My only concern is that TDP does not equal temperature (yes they are connected but it also depend on other factors such as the specific passive cooling applied etc.) this is why I want a similar table with specific card models and their temperature (not just TDP). At the end of the day power consumption in low-end cards doesn't matter that much to me I just want the card to be cool and not turn my entire case into a furnace.

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Post by Thomas » Wed May 20, 2009 1:01 am

iddo wrote:Hi all,
everything is PCI-E.

1. I was kind of hoping for some sort of reference (I did a fairly long internet search but found nothing) - a table compering different passive GPUs and how hot they get (really how come nobody made such a thing with so many roundups on the net).
I'd suggest ATI HD3450, very cheap, passive and more or less the same GPU, as the one in the ATI 780G chipset. Which means it runs cool (at idle ! ), and as a bonus, it's even a good GPU :wink: While you might not need the GPU power now, you have it as an option for future builds. According to SPCR, it uses 10 watt @ idle, which wont make much heat. I assume your server will have the GPU @ idle 99% of the time? Here's some measurements on it (as a part of the 780G review on SPCR): http://www.silentpcreview.com/article807-page9.html

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Post by quest_for_silence » Wed May 20, 2009 6:07 am

iddo wrote:really how come nobody made such a thing with so many roundups on the net
Maybe my not so good english will make me wrong, but if I correctly argue your request, I guess such a comparison would be barely pointless. How hot they will run doesn't rely only upon the specific videocard heatsink but from actual airflow and usage pattern.
In 2D my 35w PCIe 7600GT never get hot, even with current 30°C ambient and 16-18/24 power on.
iddo wrote:Its going to be a large HTPC (I hate micro-ATX) - basically if I will get a table (what I asked above) this will answer this one as well.
More than ever, such a table would be probably useless: even the termal paste of your choice will bias your results.

FYI, on my old AGP rig, I used a Radeon XT1950Pro with an AC S1 Rev.2 (MX2 paste and 3M 8815 for vram heatsinks): around 32°C at idle, 54° C typical gaming, about 65°C as personal maximum (if I remember well); case was an Antec 4400 with a single 120 Scythe SSF exhaust fan, an Enermax Pro82+ (with its 120 fan), and a Scythe Katana Cu HS with its stock fan. With AC Turbo module GPU temp was about 38°C under load.

Please take note that ATI's power consumption is almost double than 55nm 9600GT's one, and probably a Zalman 100, an AC Xtreme9800, or a TR HR03 (or even a T-Rad2) could perform even better (but there are also some viable option for a 9600GT passively cooled right at stock, as the Gigabyte Silent Cell one).
iddo wrote:I already have the 9800GTX (not GTX+). I just wanted to know if anybody had any experience making it passive.
Passive in which system? Would be any fan blowing on it? Which usage of it (the 9800GTX have a typical 3D power requirement of 110w, but with a sub 200w absolute maximum)?

With decent airflow and some case fans, maybe blowing on Geforce power circuits, it surely can be done: anyway, a 184w card is an harsh handle if you play hard.
iddo wrote:Thanks for the informative list.

My only concern is that TDP does not equal temperature
On AtomicPC forum, mark84 haven't collected sort of "TDP" ratings but real consumption values: there you'll find all the links to the original information sources (and very often even the relative temperature data).

Good luck,
Luca

iddo
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Post by iddo » Wed May 20, 2009 7:18 am

My English isn't that amazing either so don't feel bad :)

Lets do it one by one:

1. For the server I think the HD3450 will be great - not sure what company but probably just what I will find.

2. Regarding the table - I have written more than my fare share of reviews (I was a hardware reporter for many years) - if you take a specific rig (same CPU,MB, cooling etc.) you can reach fairly objective temperature readings. Yes it doesn't mean that the card will have the same temp on a different rig but at least I will know which is better and which is worse - and this is very impotent info which so far I was unable to find.

3. I was really hoping to find somebody who tried the Thermalright HR-03 GT with the 9800gtx (as passive no added fan) - I looked around and there was very little info on actual people who tried it (my case again is P182 with the regular cooling it comes with and no OC).

Iddo

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Post by SebRad » Thu May 21, 2009 2:25 am

Hi, for server I think HD3450 or HD4350 will be great choice.
For HTPC maybe consider HD4670, Sapphire do a passive version, it has lower idle than the 9600GT and similar performance in small card with no PCIe power cable.
For 9800GTX I don't think the HR-03 will be enough passive cooling. I'd doubt the Accelero would be enough passive and it's bigger and wider fin spacing. I do think the HR-03 would work great with a 500rpm Scythe fan on it that would be very quiet, below level of most HDDs.
Regards, Seb

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Post by quest_for_silence » Thu May 21, 2009 5:03 am

SebRad wrote:I'd doubt the Accelero would be enough passive and it's bigger and wider fin spacing.
Generally speaking, the AC 9800 actually works, even as passive (where its wider fin spacing could be an advantage in cooling), even in small or crowded environments: but case fans have to be not so far from the card (expecially its PWMs).

Obviously, as in any wanna be passive setup, YMMV.

Regards,
Luca

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Re: 3 passive graphic cards

Post by matt_garman » Thu May 21, 2009 5:04 am

iddo wrote:1. a GPU for my server - 2d only. cheap, low power and most impotently lowest temp possible.
I would suggest going to ebay and doing a search for "pci video card", and just look for something without any heatsink or fan. Examples would be the old Riva, ATI Rage, Matrox cards. You should be able to find one under $10 fairly quickly.

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Post by iddo » Thu May 21, 2009 9:30 am

HD3450 will probably be my choice for the server.

Do you have any reference comparing passive HR-03 GT vs. Accelero S1 Rev. 2?

I had AC products before and and they were not of very high quality. TR on the other hand have amazing products (I have 3 - all extremely well made and passively cooling 3 high-end processors on TR products).

For the HTPC I will probably wait a few months so I am putting this on hold now hopefully until the next generation of GPUs (which I really hope will run cooler with smaller lithography.

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Post by thejamppa » Thu May 21, 2009 1:12 pm

iddo wrote:HD3450 will probably be my choice for the server.

Do you have any reference comparing passive HR-03 GT vs. Accelero S1 Rev. 2?

I had AC products before and and they were not of very high quality. TR on the other hand have amazing products (I have 3 - all extremely well made and passively cooling 3 high-end processors on TR products).

For the HTPC I will probably wait a few months so I am putting this on hold now hopefully until the next generation of GPUs (which I really hope will run cooler with smaller lithography.
While AC build quality is not as impressive as TR's, Accelero S1 is amazing and cheap cooler. You can buy 2 or 3 S1's in price of HR-03-GT, which performs worse passively due tight fin spacing in limited air flow (i.e. with lesser fans )

iddo
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Post by iddo » Thu May 21, 2009 2:22 pm

I won't argue about the price but I really like to see numbers when it comes to passive cooling a 9800gtx - I looked all over the net but nothing - idea?

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Post by quest_for_silence » Thu May 21, 2009 9:49 pm

iddo wrote:Do you have any reference comparing passive HR-03 GT vs. Accelero S1 Rev. 2?
No direct comparison, I'm sorry but, FWIW, I personally won't recommend to run an AC S1 as passive on an original 9800GTX.

Maybe I would give a try (well, I would rather to swap the card for the GTX+ if I wanna run it as passive) to the AC 9800, but with one or two case fans near to the HS or, if in case, to the TR HR03GT if I have more space and coins (TR requires one more slot than AC ones) and always with case fans blowing on it (there's an HardOCP HS roundup around there, where the TR ran purely passive on the old 8800GT at 94°C).
iddo wrote:TR on the other hand have amazing products (I have 3 - all extremely well made and passively cooling 3 high-end processors on TR products).
I agreee on this "perceived quality" issue: my current rig sports an HR01, an HR05 (wanna try to fit one more), and two HR09, and I love them all, even if I think it's a matter of sort of "techno-feticism". ;-)

Regards,
Luca

iddo
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Post by iddo » Fri May 22, 2009 12:22 am

Yeah I read the HardOCP one on the 8800GT. is the 8800GT warmer than the 9800GTX?

I will probably not replace my 9800GTX with a 9800GTX+ (kind of silly don't you think). Maybe I will replace it with some future model (even something that will replace the current 9600GT should be O.K. for me as I don't have that much time to play now and the bonus will be that it could be passive).

Comparison aside - do you know of anybody who at least tried a passive 9800GTX with the HR-03 GT and can report tempratures?

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Post by kunaakos » Fri May 22, 2009 12:37 am

1. pci... You can find a card in any basement.
2. I own a gigabyte 9600gt with passive cooling, and it's great. I've read that it has some coil whine issues, but my system has fans, so I didn't notice anything. Gigabyte makes a lot of versions of these cards, you get the 9600gt with 2 types of cooling, and different sizes and type of ram, and there are ati versions too. I chose nvidia because of CUDA, and adobe compatibility, but everyone says that ati cards are better value. the temperature is my system are around 37 celsius idle, 54 celsius sustained full load (which are great temps, in my opinion), but you need proper airflow. The first time I installed it, with no case fans, it was 90 degrees and crashed after 10 minutes of gameplay... what else to use to stress a system? ;)
oh yeah, and the gigabytes are factory overclocked. AND passive cooled. nice.
3. no idea.

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Post by quest_for_silence » Fri May 22, 2009 2:41 am

iddo wrote:is the 8800GT warmer than the 9800GTX?
Unfortunately, no, but it's noticeably warmer than the 55nm "green" 9800GTX+.
iddo wrote:do you know of anybody who at least tried a passive 9800GTX with the HR-03 GT and can report tempratures?
Again, unfortunately, no: moreover, all HR-03GT report I've seen do not report favourable for a passive installation.

The TR HS also may sport only a 92mm fan: there aren't so many 92mm silent ball bearing (as your card lays horizontally) fans (well, I dunno at all, maybe but the Noctuas), and however any SPCR recommended 120mm fan will be more effective (so, less loud).

See also for some correlative information:

http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forum ... ad/104736/

Regards,
Luca

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Post by iddo » Fri May 22, 2009 8:30 am

not exactly good news...
I read that TR had problems with the first revision of the GT and took it off the market and than it came back (hopefully better) so maybe there is something there and the new version is better.

The Arctic Cooling Accelero Extreme 9800 - has fans although in the link you mentioned it doesn't - how come?

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Post by quest_for_silence » Mon May 25, 2009 4:01 am

iddo wrote:The Arctic Cooling Accelero Extreme 9800 - has fans although in the link you mentioned it doesn't - how come?
I dunno: I guess that poster haven't mounted them at all (but it seems to me that he has two case fans very near to the card).

Good luck,
Luca

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Post by JVM » Mon May 25, 2009 5:11 am

iddo wrote:hi,
1. The server is already working - and I am probably not going to replace the MB any time soon (unless it breaks). What I need to know and wasn't able to find is what is the coolest passive graphic card around.

2. In the HTPC I do want to be able to run games so performance is a factor - I still think a passive 9600GT should be a good option but will love to hear what people think about its thermal status (how hot it gets).

3. Anybody else with thoughts about making a 9800gtx passive?

Iddo
I have the ECS 9600 GT in my system and it idles at around 40C

iddo
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Post by iddo » Mon May 25, 2009 12:57 pm

the 9600gt is much cooler.

My 9800gtx is very warm and has a very laud fan.
At 50% fan it is very laud (for me - I am very sensitive to noise) and the temp is 60c. At 30% I can still hear it and it gets very hot - 78c - both numbers at idle.

I really need to replace it with a good passive like the HR03GT. The problem is that no matter how much I looked I wasn't able to find anybody who tried this configuration passively and can say something about it - which to me is very strange...

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Post by quest_for_silence » Mon May 25, 2009 1:59 pm

iddo wrote:I wasn't able to find anybody who tried this configuration passively and can say something about it - which to me is very strange...
Simply do it, if you have room to grow in your case (and if - unfortunately - it won't work, you may however add a fan to the HR-03GT: in this latter case it will surely work).

Regards,
Luca

iddo
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Post by iddo » Mon May 25, 2009 2:08 pm

I will probably do just that very soon.
I am just a bit concerned that I will damage my card when replacing the cooler.

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Post by quest_for_silence » Tue May 26, 2009 12:59 am

iddo wrote:I am just a bit concerned that I will damage my card when replacing the cooler.
I'd not be so seriously concerned about it: eventually, 'google' for some disaster-proof instructions (and TR's Support is also very responsive); then, once mounted, take care of VRM's temps (as it's a Nvidia, not a more resilient ATI).

You may also do something like this, to be sure about videocard survivability:

Image

But it is worth to have a fanless 65nm 9800GTX, with 4 or 5 case fans? Really I dunno.

Regards,
Luca

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Post by iddo » Tue May 26, 2009 6:24 am

This case is very similar to my rig (same P182, similar GPU and more or less the same CPU heatsink - mine has no fan).

At the end of the day I will have 3 built in 120mm fans (which are very quite) plus probably another one I will add to blow on the GPU+CPU - it will probably be a NOCTUA 120mm 17db fan which is great.

So if you are asking if this is quieter than what I have now with the very noisy 9800gtx fan - I think the answer is defiantly yes.

P.S. I really like what this guy did with the cardboard - but I will need to find a better material

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Post by quest_for_silence » Tue May 26, 2009 6:34 am

iddo wrote:if you are asking if this is quieter than what I have now with the very noisy 9800gtx fan - I think the answer is defiantly yes.
No, I was wondering if a couple of case fans tied onto your heatsinks (both VGA and CPU) wouldn't work better than 4 fans tied to your case: but an answer right now doesn't matter.

Good luck,
Luca

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