AMD New Radeon 5870, 5850

AZBrandon · Post by **AZBrandon** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:09 am

akromatic wrote:what im dieing to find out is if the 5870 can operate semi passively with the S1

ie slap a S1 on it without any cooling fan and have a front intake 120mm fan blowing 1-2mm behind it

basically i want to have a pair of 5870 in the SG03 and use its front intake as cooling fan

At idle it would obviously be no problem, as the card idles at a mere 27 watts. Load power consumption is up to 188 watts maximum, which is generally above what any passive cooler can cope with. I would not suggest running it passively, but that's just me. Now running a PAIR of them passively - that's almost certainly asking for too much heat in the case to deal with, not to mention I didn't think the S1 permits usage of the crossfire bridge anyway?

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:38 am

Well I fitted my 5850 today with the stock cooler. At idle it's respectably quiet - not something I'd use myself but something I'd be happy putting in a quiet build for a friend.

Under load it's less impressive to be honest, not as obnoxious as in the coolers in the past, but then we're not in the past.

Will fit my S1R2 and post photos maybe over the weekend.

Entropy · Post by **Entropy** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:07 am

Downtown1 wrote:So is it going to be possible at all to build a "silent"/very quiet PC with a 5870? I want to make a new PC and desperately need it to also have 3x24" monitors so I can run EyeFinity (which means I'll need the power of the 5870).

I had hoped so, but trandy1001s testimony left me doubtful.
Anyway, I've ordered the 5850, and will approach the problem by lowering power draw, rather than trying to find a better cooler. Attack the problem at the source so to speak.
This will require lowering voltages, and thus either an external utility, or editing and flashing the BIOS. My hope is that I will be able to drop 3D voltages by 20% at stock clocks, and thus drop GPU power draw by approximately (0.8/1)^2=0.64, or in other words, shave off more than a third of its load power. IF that is possible, it would offer roughly twice the resources of the 5750, at a similar power envelope. Given the much better cooling solution, I hoped that this level of power could be dissipated at very low noise by the stock cooler (which is temperature regulated).

The testimonies of nutball and trandy1001 implies that this is not quite true. Won't stop me from trying though. I'll report my results.

Telamon · Post by **Telamon** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:18 am

I'm glad the 5800s are getting this much attention here. I'll be building my new P55 system soon and plan on using a 5850 but I'm coming from an 8800GT with a Nexus fan modified Zalman VF-900 which was nearly inaudible relative to the other components. The idle power on these new GPUs is amazing but both of the 5800s have a significantly higher load draw. Is the S1 pretty much the expectation for equivalent quiet cooling at this level?

akromatic · Post by **akromatic** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:59 am

AZBrandon wrote:
akromatic wrote:what im dieing to find out is if the 5870 can operate semi passively with the S1

ie slap a S1 on it without any cooling fan and have a front intake 120mm fan blowing 1-2mm behind it

basically i want to have a pair of 5870 in the SG03 and use its front intake as cooling fan
At idle it would obviously be no problem, as the card idles at a mere 27 watts. Load power consumption is up to 188 watts maximum, which is generally above what any passive cooler can cope with. I would not suggest running it passively, but that's just me. Now running a PAIR of them passively - that's almost certainly asking for too much heat in the case to deal with, not to mention I didn't think the S1 permits usage of the crossfire bridge anyway?

hmm i dont mean 100% passive, i wont attach a fan to it but i'll be using the front intake which is attached 90deg perpendicular to the cards and its only 1-2mm clearance between the cards and the fan

so realistically its not passive

--5870--- |F.|
--S1------ |F |
--5870--- |A|
--S1------ |N|

Big Pimp Daddy · Post by **Big Pimp Daddy** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:03 am

So does anyone have a definitive answer on whether an Accelero S1R2 will fit on a 5850 with the baseplate part of the stock cooler doing VRM cooling duties? And will it need a fan blowing on it? (I only use one case exhaust fan, but could stick a 120mm nexus under the card if needed)
My 5850 is coming on tuesday and the above would be the ideal solution for me, but if anyone can confirm that it will definitely not work, then I will order a Thermalright VRM R1/2, but would like to know beforehand obviously.
Many thanks.

FartingBob · Post by **FartingBob** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:43 am

Im seriously considering getting a 5850 some time in the next couple of months. The games i play now run fine on my still very nice 4850 (512Mb) but since i installed that card ive upgraded my monitor from a 22" 1680x1050 to a 28" 1920x1200 and the extra power and RAM will certainly help. GTAIV has to be dialed down a fair bit to make playable (dropping resolution and playing everything on medium) on my 4850). I also plan on getting Assassins creed 2 and CODMW2 when they are released so even though i know i could run these games ok, a boost would be nice.

I hope SPCR review the 5850 (or all the 5xxx cards), most reviews say the reference cooler is very quiet but i have a Accelero so if i can i would use that, although if i cant hear it over ambient at idle (under load i dont care how loud it is) then i might as well keep the reference cooler and save some hassle (and keep the warranty).

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:45 am

there reference coolers for the 58xx look pretty pathetic if you check out some sites.

they idle quiet because they almost let the cards ignite in flames, therefore, they are quiet. a card smoldering in a coal stove is very quiet.

My 3870 reference card idled at 55 C. I put a zalman waterblock on it and it idles at 36 C. that is lower than body temperature vs burn your hand. On load it shot up to 70's C. Now it goes up to around 42C on load.

ATI satisfies marketing not longevity, they went the way of silent and hot for idle and cranked and choked for air on load a 2 years ago. Just look at the "shroud" design. One of the choked holes even has a PCI-E power connector in it to further jam it's miniscule ability to pull in air. not a good design for longevity and silence yet

AZBrandon · Post by **AZBrandon** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:09 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:ATI satisfies marketing not longevity, they went the way of silent and hot for idle and cranked and choked for air on load a 2 years ago. Just look at the "shroud" design. One of the choked holes even has a PCI-E power connector in it to further jam it's miniscule ability to pull in air. not a good design for longevity and silence yet

That's not how a blower fan works. A blower fan creates a low pressure zone above the fan blades themselves and draws air in through there. The air is then "flung" outwards via the flat fanblades. The holes where the PCI power connectors are have air blowing out of them, not being drawn in. The only air being drawn in by a blower fan is above the fan blades themselves. That's the great, big, open, round part with no obstructions.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:47 pm

well. then the fan has no where to push the air out. I imagine if one were to carve out all that excess shroud one would have a some air.

90 degrees C = crap air movement. There is no question that with 30 dollars worth of cooling you will make the 5870 hit 60 C or less. That's how it rolls.

unless you want to make water for tea, then thats perfect temperature.

When are we going to get real coolers?

I find it odd how many cooling only companies like Accelero people do not have at launch a whole website dedicated to these guys. They have been around for months for engineering reviews and such.

It's kinda annoying have to wait for someone to make something for one of these things to be a viable purchase. I normally stick it out with the crap shroud solution for 1-2 months before landing a real back up plan spcr-wise.

Trying to avoid that one this time by having it sold nonreference out of the box.

falcon26 · Post by **falcon26** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:36 am

I have the XFX 5870. Its not only quiet but it cools it rather well. My idle temps are about 42 and load about 60. This is in a well vented Antec P180B case. It may not cool as well as some of the aftermarket coolers, but it is by no means bad. I find it very quiet and cools very nicely.

Big Pimp Daddy · Post by **Big Pimp Daddy** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:36 pm

Well as I couldn't find enough info about aftermarket coolers for the 5850, I just installed it with the reference cooler and was pleasantly surprised. At idle with the fan at 20% it sits at 41 degrees C. At this level it is either quieter than or very close to the sound level of the rest of the system (Neo HE, 1000rpm nexus, WD320SE16). I haven't loaded it more than playing Left4Dead yet (not very demanding for this card even with everything on max, but so much fun!) and I don't think the fan has gone above 30%, still below the noise floor of my system. If I put the fan speed any higher than that manually, it really is noticeable, some might say horrific.
Anyways, the stock cooler is staying on for now.

dkfr · Post by **dkfr** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:22 am

http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showth ... p?t=647197

seems as though the accelero s1r2 can fit with the base plate, although some of the fins will be bent

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:56 am

If the HD5850 is as quiet as a reference 4870 then I won't waste my time replacing the stock cooler.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:44 pm

what? whats that you say? I cant hear you.

hows that for opinions.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:07 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:what? whats that you say? I cant hear you.

hows that for opinions.

?

What?

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:12 pm

rpsgc wrote:
~El~Jefe~ wrote:what? whats that you say? I cant hear you.

hows that for opinions.
?

What?

trying to say it's really freakin loud

on load.
idle appears to be spcr certified levels

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:06 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:trying to say it's really freakin loud

on load.
idle appears to be spcr certified levels

Only idle noise matters.

Spirit02 · Post by **Spirit02** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:10 am

rpsgc wrote: Only idle noise matters.

To you

My machine has to be silent (or certainly no more than a faint faint hum) at all times, because I use open headphones.

5850 with an S1 or a Trad^2 is looking mighty good.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:51 am

Spirit02 wrote:To you

No, to the majority. People want their cards to be quiet when idle, the time people spend gaming (even if you're a hardcore gamer) is a lot less than the time they spend doing other things. Not to mention those who leave their computers on during the night.

So yes, idle noise is important, load noise not so much.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:05 am

LOL, well I can see this argument yeah I can.

Only thing I can't is that how unrelaxing it is to play games at night under that nuisance sound... after a while. try it without it and youll feel more relaxed. I did try stock for a while on a card 2 years ago.

If you try to number crunch on your card... that too is bad.

All games sound better without headphones. I have tried high end studio headphones and still, the free air speakers sound better. Not to mention that headphones damage hearing so easily and unnoticably.

Windows should have a dBA limiter like they USED TO have on walkmans. Games just are so quiet in some parts and so loud in others. It's hard to team play without that though, of course.

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:34 am

It also depends what style of games you play. Not all are a constant stream of noise and/or distracting action.

MMOGs typically have rather extended intervals of un-engaging activity, eg. travel, or intervals with little in-game noise where you actually want to concentrate (eg. figuring out how to make money in EVE Online!).

jurian89 · Post by **jurian89** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:41 am

Hey,

I just saw that the 5750 gets a vapor-x cooler from sapphire on the 3rd of nov.

This means the 5870 vapro-x will probably come the same day

And hopefully the 5850 (the one i am getting) vapor-x will be released

.

Who here are waiting for this release ?

I am hoping for some nice reviews

leifeinar · Post by **leifeinar** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:52 am

editing and flashing the BIOS. My hope is that I will be able to drop 3D voltages by 20% at stock clocks, and thus drop. in other words, shave off more than a third of its load power. IF that is possible, it would offer roughly twice the resources of the 5750, at a similar power envelope. Given the much better cooling solution, I hoped that this level of power could be dissipated at very low noise by the stock cooler (which is temperature regulated).

Im having the same plans, it shjold be possible to get quite good results with undervolting. get load down to 120-130W

Entropy · Post by **Entropy** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:15 am

rpsgc wrote:
Spirit02 wrote:To you ;)
No, to the majority. People want their cards to be quiet when idle, the time people spend gaming (even if you're a hardcore gamer) is a lot less than the time they spend doing other things. Not to mention those who leave their computers on during the night.

So yes, idle noise is important, load noise not so much.

Again, for you.
Other people who buy graphics cards of this caliber may well primarily use their PCs for gaming, and of course then noise under load actually represents a more typical situation. I think it's reasonable to assume that people who buy these graphics cards intend to use them, so it stands to reason that the noise under load is relevant.

I have a HD5850 on order, and intend to undervolt and if necessary underclock it. It simply produces too much heat under load to be quietly cooled, (unless you have a very acoustically open case with other fans working hard making the entire system noisy anyway), and I intend to attack the problem at its root, power draw, rather than trying to remedy the symptom, noise.

Modern high end graphics cards aren't produced for people who enjoy cool and quiet computing. Or adults at all. Look at the boxes to see who the target audience is.... The majority of computer users wouldn't touch a 150W graphics card card with a ten-foot pole.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:04 am

You sure do spend a lot of time assuming. Assuming everyone who buys it are hardcore gamers who spend 22h gaming everyday, assuming no one who buys a high-end card cares about noise at idle (which is what most people here care about, if you don't then you are in the wrong forum!), assuming only hardcore gamers will buy it and assuming anyone cares about how loud it is while gaming just because you use open headphones!

Entropy · Post by **Entropy** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:13 am

rpsgc wrote:You sure do spend a lot of time assuming. Assuming everyone who buys it are hardcore gamers who spend 22h gaming everyday, assuming no one who buys a high-end card cares about noise at idle (which is what most people here care about, if you don't then you are in the wrong forum!), assuming only hardcore gamers will buy it and assuming anyone cares about how loud it is while gaming just because you use open headphones!

This is SilentPCReview.

lm · Post by lm » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:39 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote: Windows should have a dBA limiter like they USED TO have on walkmans. Games just are so quiet in some parts and so loud in others. It's hard to team play without that though, of course.

I think you mean a compressor. It makes the loud parts less loud and the quiet parts less quiet. I often want this feature in movies, because there are moments when there are people whispering, and then the next moment something goes KABOOM on you. So then you end up constantly turning the volume dial of your amplifier to be able to hear what the actors whisper and not get blown away by the explosions.

Actually some amplifiers implement a so called "midnight mode" for just this purpose.

I guess it could be done on the sound card driver level too.

But in any case, if you find out how to do this, drop me a pm.

About the importance of idle/load noise: Idle noise for a GPU is something that would make me buy something else. But load noise, while being important, can be a bit more than the idle noise, as there is much more noise while gaming anyway. Not that I would allow a leaf blower in that case either.

Vicotnik · Post by **Vicotnik** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:26 am

lm wrote:I think you mean a compressor. It makes the loud parts less loud and the quiet parts less quiet. I often want this feature in movies, because there are moments when there are people whispering, and then the next moment something goes KABOOM on you. So then you end up constantly turning the volume dial of your amplifier to be able to hear what the actors whisper and not get blown away by the explosions.

Actually some amplifiers implement a so called "midnight mode" for just this purpose.

I think the ffdshow audio decoder can do this. Normalize the sound.

Personally I love a wide dynamic range in movies (and music) since it gives presence. Like being in a movie theater. But sometimes late at night I think that my neighbors disagrees.

Spirit02 · Post by **Spirit02** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:17 pm

rpsgc wrote:Assuming only hardcore gamers will buy it and assuming anyone cares about how loud it is while gaming just because you use open headphones!

Does Entropy use open headphones?
He was reiterating my point - we're not the same person

Seriously... don't take it so seriously. You said 'only idle noise matters'. To me, load noise matters too, so I said so. I then said idle noise matters to you...

I was never commenting on the majority... I couldn't care less about the majority.