AMD New Radeon 5870, 5850

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:45 am

I just installed my brand new 5850, it's quiet enough at idle. And it's not that loud during load.

Spirit02 · Post by **Spirit02** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:09 am

rpsgc wrote:It's quiet enough at idle. And it's not that loud during load.

Cool

I can't quite remember from reading your posts elsewhere - were you planning on undervolting or overclocking or both?

Let us know how you go

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:50 am

For now, neither.

I'm still annoyed that the card doesn't downlock properly with two monitors connected (400/1000MHz).

shleepy · Post by **shleepy** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:40 am

What's the consensus for cooling VRM/RAM on the HD 5850? I'd be using an HR-03 for the GPU, so I don't think the RAMsink height would be a problem. Would something like this Zalman thing, designed for the HD4870, fit and/or be necessary? Or would maybe just putting on standard small RAMsinks work?

I thought I saw earlier in this thread that some people mentioned that leaving a part of the original heatsink on it would also do the trick... Or is that just for the HD 5870?

EDIT: I guess you can just leave the baseplate on? I assume this isn't a good idea if I were to put the HR-03 GT on the back of the card, even with far-ish fans on the bottom and middle of the case (both blowing in the direction of the card)?

Zelaxe · Post by **Zelaxe** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:43 am

How is the sound signature of the HD5850 in idle and exactly how much does it sound? Is it possible to turn off the fan in idle? My VX450 and harddrive (WD640 Blue with AAM) are the only things I hear right now and I don't want it to sound more than that in idle since I sleep with the comp on.

shleepy · Post by **shleepy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:09 pm

Anyone see confirmation about whether T-Rad2 fits or does not fit on the 5850's?

Tephras · Post by **Tephras** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:45 pm

Xbitlabs used one in their Radeon HD 5850 review:

The distance between the mounting holes of the Radeon HD 5850 cooler is the same as on the Radeon HD 4870/4890 (75.5 millimeters), so you can try to install an alternative cooling system on this card. For example, a Thermalright T-Rad2 with two 92mm fans (1500rpm).

shleepy · Post by **shleepy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:05 pm

Tephras wrote:Xbitlabs used one in their Radeon HD 5850 review:

The distance between the mounting holes of the Radeon HD 5850 cooler is the same as on the Radeon HD 4870/4890 (75.5 millimeters), so you can try to install an alternative cooling system on this card. For example, a Thermalright T-Rad2 with two 92mm fans (1500rpm).

But it looks like they took off the base... and they didn't even seen to put on any RAMsinks, which doesn't seem like a particularly good idea.

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:34 pm

Anyone got any info on how well these cards with with Hybrid Crossfire for power consumption?

In 2D/desktop mode the graphics card should be pretty much turned off and the on-board GPU doing all the work. I can't find any details of power consumption in this set-up though.

flinx · Post by **flinx** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:58 pm

I'd be very interested in a noise comparison between a 5870 Vapor-X, vanilla 5850 and 5850+S1. Anyone know of any sites that have done such a comparison or have any idea how it would turn out?

Esben · Post by **Esben** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:59 am

Zelaxe wrote:How is the sound signature of the HD5850 in idle and exactly how much does it sound? Is it possible to turn off the fan in idle?

I'm also very interested in hearing if the fan can be turned off when idling. Could be great if someone with a 5850 or 5870 would try if it's possible?

mkk · Post by **mkk** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:16 pm

The ATI controls does not allow for less than 20% fan speed, and only at just about 20% was the woosh of the fan bearable to me with my 5850. With the heatsink being very much made for having air pushed through it inside a plastic tunnel I doubt even these cards idle power draw is low enough. Some of the other card tweaking software might do better as long as the fan spins up at like a 10-15% level. But as soon as you do something and the fan will need to spin above 20% you're likely to hear it clearly.

I don't think these cards are Hybrid Crossfire compatible. So far that has almost been a one-off thing with a few low-low budget cards. Disable the onboard graphics and be glad that these new cards are so lean at idle draw.

Esben · Post by **Esben** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:51 am

Thanks for the reply mkk

It sounds like the default configuration with fan speed at 20 % is a bit too noisy for me. But I've seen screenshots of an application that can modify the BIOS, which allows for less than 20 % fanspeed, so there might be a chance for it to quiet down further.

mkygod · Post by **mkygod** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:32 pm

I just bought a 5850; can you guys let me know how feasible it would be to run it passively using an Accelero S1 Rev2?

I've been reading that the VRM on this thing is hard to cool. Would it be better to leave the baseplate on when installing 3rd party coolers? Would installing ram sinks on top of the baseplate be a bad or good idea?

Currently, I have a 8800GT with the Accelero S1 running passively with no problems on a P150 case with only 1 exhaust and 1 intake fan running at low RPMs.

kater · Post by **kater** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:47 pm

I previously also had OCed 8800GT with S1 fanless - there was only 1 x 92mm in the vicinity, in the front bottom of the case, spinning at just 800 rpm. And all was cool, the card ran great, no problems, OCed nicely, no artifacts etc.

Then I upgraded to 4770, thinking that it will be even easier to run this setup. And although the temps were v low, the card would show artifacts from time to time. I slapped another barely running 92mm on the card, so that it would blow at its VRMs and presto, artifacts were gone. So I figured that it helped. I never really bothered to research it closer, but since the additional fan is of no audible consequence I just left it there. Could be memory, too.

Point is, like you said, the VRMs on Radeons tend to run hot, and tend to cope badly with no airflow. Heck, ppl with 4870 and 4890 have serious problems cooling them actively

Sure, 5850 is a wee different, especially in idle, but when you load it, some serious wattage will be there. And I doubt the card can make it fanless. 5770 - perhaps, 5750 - most likely. But no 5850, I don't think so.

And by all means show us pics and share temps etc. when you get it done. I'm considering 5770 or higher for my future setup and would really like to see it in a v similar system

Oh, and what about your CPU? I guess it will seriously bottleneck such a powerful card. Heck, it should even bottleneck the 7900GTO (had it too, some time ago, great card, loved the cooler!)

mkygod · Post by **mkygod** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:17 pm

The sig in my previous post was actually my old rig. I just updated my sig and I'm running a Core2Duo E8400 @ 3.6 ghz, so that should keep up with the new card.

I will try to run it passively, since i've already have the 5850 and Accelero on order at the same time. But first I would like to hear some opinions on whether to leave the baseplate on or not (the heatsink comes in 2 pieces, the fan portion and the metal baseplate that sorta doubles as a heatsink for Ram and VRM).

I'm thinking of leaving the baseplate on and just add some heatsinks on top of it to help with the cooling. Would feel better if I knew someone out there was able to run this thing passively.

nova · Post by **nova** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:31 pm

I'm also getting a 5850 and a Accelero today. My idea is to use the baseplate along with the Accelero. I'm also running a E8400 and a 8800GT passive in a Solo with one exhaust fan and one intake fan.

I'm going to try it with the stock cooler first to see that the card works ok and then I'm going to try to run it passive with the Accelero. I'm also going to try undervolting the card to reduce the need for cooling.

A slight case mod will be performed at the same time, so it might be some time before I have an answer about the 5850 and Accelero running passive.

edit: I'm not convinced it can be done, it's a high wattage card after all. But I'm going to give it my best shot.

mkygod · Post by **mkygod** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:52 pm

BTW, you and I have a similar setup. Even our PSU is the same 430 wattage. I recently bought a Seasonic x750 to run the 5850.

Are you upgrading yours too, or are you going to try it with your 430w?

I think it is possible to run the card passively, but it may take more modifications than just an Accelero S1. Thermalright has made a heatsink specifically just for the 5850/5870 VRM called the VRM-R3 and VRM-4 (one for sidepanel cooling, and the other that uses CPU fan cooling).

Problem is: 1) it costs almost as much as an Accelero 2) Don't know whether it is compatible with the Accelero S1, as it was meant to be used in conjunction with a Thermalright passive gpu cooler

http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/ ... r3_r4.html

Here is a photo of someone using a VRM-4 with a fan on a 5870:

He says he was able to take the fan out and the temps didn't go up much. As you can see, he was able to fit underneath the AC accelero twin turbo unit, so I'm hoping it is safe to assume that it would be compatible with an Acceler S1 as well.

nova · Post by **nova** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:32 am

mkygod wrote:BTW, you and I have a similar setup. Even our PSU is the same 430 wattage. I recently bought a Seasonic x750 to run the 5850.

Are you upgrading yours too, or are you going to try it with your 430w?

I'm keeping my psu, it's the worlds quietest fan cooled psu after all. I switched from a HX520 and that was quiet but this is in a class of it's own. Check out the SPCR review if you haven't already.

It has 2 pci-express connectors as well. A few pics, click for bigger version.

mkygod wrote: I think it is possible to run the card passively, but it may take more modifications than just an Accelero S1. Thermalright has made a heatsink specifically just for the 5850/5870 VRM called the VRM-R3 and VRM-4 (one for sidepanel cooling, and the other that uses CPU fan cooling).

Problem is: 1) it costs almost as much as an Accelero 2) Don't know whether it is compatible with the Accelero S1, as it was meant to be used in conjunction with a Thermalright passive gpu cooler

http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/ ... r3_r4.html

Here is a photo of someone using a VRM-4 with a fan on a 5870:

He says he was able to take the fan out and the temps didn't go up much. As you can see, he was able to fit underneath the AC accelero twin turbo unit, so I'm hoping it is safe to assume that it would be compatible with an Acceler S1 as well.

Interesting find, I'll see if they're available in Sweden.

I've picked up my card from the post office YAY!

A few pics before and card comparison. With 8800GT idle power at the wall was 106W. Forgot to take a picture of it. Click for bigger versions.

Before

Box

Idle

Size

GPU-Z, note that this card is slightly overclocked by default.

Installed in Antec Solo

Power usage in a quick round of BF2

GPU-Z after playing a round of BF2

Some of the pics are poor quality, I'll post an update after I'm done with my case mod and Accelero S1 install.

mkygod · Post by **mkygod** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:39 pm

Nice pics. thanks for sharing

BTW, i think you should do some serious load testing on your rig to see what the temps are and also to see if your psu is able to handle it. IMO, a 430watt psu might be stretching it a bit for the 5850.

Maybe run some 3d benchmark loops or something before you swap out the heatsink on that monster.

nova · Post by **nova** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:26 pm

mkygod wrote:Nice pics. thanks for sharing

BTW, i think you should do some serious load testing on your rig to see what the temps are and also to see if your psu is able to handle it. IMO, a 430watt psu might be stretching it a bit for the 5850.

Maybe run some 3d benchmark loops or something before you swap out the heatsink on that monster.

I intend to test it fully before changing anything. Tried a quick run of 3DMark Vantage and power usage from the wall topped out at 206W. I'll run loops and test everything while monitoring temps. But that'll have to wait, now I'm off to bed.

kater · Post by **kater** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:42 pm

3DMark is heavy on the GPU, tru, but Furmark is even harder. You could try running LinX + Furmark for a truly heavy test. And there's still one thing I found to be even more demanding - OCCT power supply test. For my main setup (E8200 @ 3,2 stock V + 4770 @ 830/830 + stuff) the 3Dmark is up to 173W, Linx + Furmark is up to 191W, and OCCT PS is up to 203W. For added thrill try copying a large file and burning a DVD

What I'm recently finding out is that F@H is also a great stability tester, especially for CPUs. Even though the average load on the CPU is only approx. 70%, the many hours of folding separate boys from men

That said I think a decent 430W PSU like the Nexus should have no problems handling your setup. Especially that you don't seem to be OCing your components at all.

nova · Post by **nova** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:40 am

kater wrote:3DMark is heavy on the GPU, tru, but Furmark is even harder. You could try running LinX + Furmark for a truly heavy test. And there's still one thing I found to be even more demanding - OCCT power supply test. For my main setup (E8200 @ 3,2 stock V + 4770 @ 830/830 + stuff) the 3Dmark is up to 173W, Linx + Furmark is up to 191W, and OCCT PS is up to 203W. For added thrill try copying a large file and burning a DVD

What I'm recently finding out is that F@H is also a great stability tester, especially for CPUs. Even though the average load on the CPU is only approx. 70%, the many hours of folding separate boys from men

That said I think a decent 430W PSU like the Nexus should have no problems handling your setup. Especially that you don't seem to be OCing your components at all.

That's correct, I know that there are ways to load it harder. I tried OCCT power supply test and this is what I got. I did copy a lot of large files in the beginning of that test. The result is about where I'd expect it to be.
Taking into account the numbers from the SPCR review, the efficiency of the is between 82.7-82.6% from 300W AC and up to 367W AC. That test is done on 110V and I'm on 220v which usually increases the efficiency by a few procent. With that in mind I'm pulling about 265-270W DC when running this test. I'd consider that a worst case scenario and not something I'd encounter "in real life" usage. But none the less the PSU and the system has no problem at all with that load.

In fact this PSU is heavily geared towards the 12V rails and that's where most of the power is drawn. Not all PSUs are made that way though and I understand the concern for using such a relatively low wattage PSU with this card. To be safe always check the PSU of choice for amperage on each rail and make sure it's divided correctly for your application. Always buy a good quality PSU, I've seen too many pc's behaving strangely from having poor PSUs with in swedish "Kalle Anka" (Donald Duck) watts.

Mind you I never do any overclocking, I prefer silence and less stress on components. I tend to do undervolting most of the time to reduce cooling need and that way reduce fan speed. That being said though I haven't undervolted my cpu yet. The graphics card I bought is factory OCed, but I bought it because of the solid state chokes and caps mainly.

Max power draw AC when running OCCT PSU test

GPU-Z after running test.

The CPU topped out at 57 degrees C.

Next I'll run furmark and stress the GPU repeatedly before I go ahead and switch the cooler and do the rest of my planned mods. I'm thinking of making a thread in the general gallery when the mods are done, but that's for another thread.

BTW, a quick note, I'm somewhat of a quiet freak and the noise of the stock cooler is driving me up the wall. I don't think it's worse than any other 5850 using the reference cooler and considering the power of the card it's not that bad. But for a silent or even quiet pc enthusiast it's bloody annoying make no doubt about it.

nova · Post by **nova** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:20 am

Update, I've run furmark stability test extreme burning mode for an hour.

Max temp reached with standard cooler 87 degrees C. AC load power 282W. Load power and temperature was stable from a few minutes into the run.

Everything seems to be working good. So now it's time to change the cooler.

mkygod · Post by **mkygod** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:30 pm

I'm glad to hear that your system is running fine w/ the new card. I ran Furmark myself, and that thing was a good workout for my passive 8800gt which ran it up to 80C; over 10 degrees more than with my 3D games.

My 5850 won't arrive until wednesday. Good luck with the new cooler.

nova · Post by **nova** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:24 pm

Ok, S1 installed. time for pictures.

Some of them are unfortunately out focus, sorry about that. I'm using the stock baseplate and some memory sinks from the S1 package on the exposed VRMs.
The fan is a Scythe Slipstream 1600RPM, I meant to buy the 1200RPM but by mistake i bought the 1600RPM instead.

It's running at 5V and 984RPM is at the moment.

Didn't take pics of thermal paste and the fin cutting pics were way out of focus. I only had to cut a small piece from 3 fins to clear the DVI cover.

Wednesday,ouch that's a long wait. But I'll be worth it though.

Idle with Slipstream fan at 5V.

Edit: a couple pics of it installed.

kater · Post by **kater** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:36 pm

Neat. Only thing I'd personally do would be to move the fan a little back so that it spills smoe more airflow over where the VRMs are. At least that's what I think needs all the cooling there is. Especially that the GPU is connected to the main part of the cooler, and the VRMs only have those tiny wee heatsinks. And they're responsible for dealing with some heavy wattage (even 150W).

And if only someone could try and fit AC S1 on 5770... Somebody, please? Guys? I mean, I know it will need some more cutting (been there, done that - 4770), but the main issue is whether the last (or first) HP makes contact with the DVI housing. OTOH the problem would be gone with a card with a single I/O bracket. And there are cards like that already. Pardon my blabbing

mkygod · Post by **mkygod** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:54 pm

Try load testing on your current setup and if you feel comfortable enough w/ the temps, i would like to see if you would also try it passively.

Are you able to put a heatsink on top the VRM part that is covered by that little heatpipe in the baseplate?

nova · Post by **nova** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:16 am

kater wrote:Neat. Only thing I'd personally do would be to move the fan a little back so that it spills smoe more airflow over where the VRMs are. At least that's what I think needs all the cooling there is. Especially that the GPU is connected to the main part of the cooler, and the VRMs only have those tiny wee heatsinks. And they're responsible for dealing with some heavy wattage (even 150W).

That's exactly what I was thinking after seeing my own pics.

But first I'll try furmark as it is. Then I'll move the fan and see what kind of difference that will make.

mkygod wrote: Are you able to put a heatsink on top the VRM part that is covered by that little heatpipe in the baseplate?

I doubt it, but I'll check when I move the fan. Now I'll go testing for a while.

Update: Result with furmark, ran for half an hour and temperatures leveled off and didn't rise. Max temperature reached was 80 degrees C.

Information from GPU-Z after running furmark.

Looking at the numbers for the VRMs makes me think that passively cooling this card will be extremely difficult. Now I'll move the fan and run additional tests.

Update:

Moved the fan and the result wasn't good at all. Idle was about the same but under load the temperature quickly rose and I stopped furmark after it hit 92 degrees C.

GPU-Z

Looking through some other forums where people are using S1 on the 5850 got me thinking that my temps are a bit high. I looked at the 8800GT and noticed that the standoffs were thinner. I grabbed those and mounted them on the 5850, I also managed to get some more heatsinks mounted on top of the baseplate. Unfortunately the batteries in my camera died. I'll update later when I've got a fresh set.

First impressions looks good though. Look at the temperature reduction on the VRMs in idle.

flinx · Post by **flinx** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:18 pm

One thing I'm wondering is with the high VRM temps, the card might attempt to throttle the GPU. More info here:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=11

EDIT: More info - looks like 120C is the point where the VRMs start throttling on the 5970, so it's probably the same on the 5870 and 5850:

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=657

Do a load test and look at the temps of the VRMs and the clock speed of the card, and you should be able to verify it.