I'm a new poster that has been lurking for a while now, looking at options as I get a new system for grad school. I know a lot of people have complaints about the noise of the Shuttles, but it also seems like a lot of people are trying to run hyperthreaded P4s with Radeon 9800s. I probably won't have time to play games for the next 3 years, so my plans were more modest:
AMD XP Mobile 2400
Matrox or passive-cooled ATI
80 gig hard drive
DVD/CDRW combo drive
I was thinking about the Zen, except that it seems designed for expensive P4s, and I need at least one slot for DVI (and would prefer to have another slot free). I've read a lot of Shuttle threads both here and in SFFTech, but I still have to ask: are Shuttle users satisfied with their noise levels or is it still too early to be looking for a quiet Shuttle?
AOpen XC Cube EZ18/EZ65 cooling tips (renamed thread)
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
AOpen XC Cube EZ18/EZ65 cooling tips (renamed thread)
Last edited by Hazelrah on Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MikeC
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Intelligent 1st post 
The Shuttle Zen's heatpipe/HS is the best of all the SFF CPU cooling systems -- bar none. With an open enough back fan grill, it's really quite amazing how well it works.
The Zen is the quietest SFF I've heard, but the AOpen XPC65 is a close second; could not say about the socket-A version of the AOpen for sure, but one would think it would be similar.
The downside of the other Shuttles is the slim PSU with 40mm fans. The new quieter one is pretty good, but as I wrote in my recent review of the ST61G4, its sonic signature is that of a smaller fan when the PSU gets pushed. It has a bit of whine. Whether you can improve CPU/case cooling enough by opening up the vent for the 80mm fan in order to keep that PSU from ramping up will probably depend on how hot your components and your environment are.
If you need an AGP slot, I think an undervolted/clocked mobile XP in an AOpen is probably your best bet for a really quiet system. Or try your luck/skill in modding the ST61G4 (or similar).
The Shuttle Zen's heatpipe/HS is the best of all the SFF CPU cooling systems -- bar none. With an open enough back fan grill, it's really quite amazing how well it works.
The Zen is the quietest SFF I've heard, but the AOpen XPC65 is a close second; could not say about the socket-A version of the AOpen for sure, but one would think it would be similar.
The downside of the other Shuttles is the slim PSU with 40mm fans. The new quieter one is pretty good, but as I wrote in my recent review of the ST61G4, its sonic signature is that of a smaller fan when the PSU gets pushed. It has a bit of whine. Whether you can improve CPU/case cooling enough by opening up the vent for the 80mm fan in order to keep that PSU from ramping up will probably depend on how hot your components and your environment are.
If you need an AGP slot, I think an undervolted/clocked mobile XP in an AOpen is probably your best bet for a really quiet system. Or try your luck/skill in modding the ST61G4 (or similar).
Thanks for the advice! I had forgotten about the AOpen since Shuttle has been on a PR blitz with their new models. The EZ18 is sounding good at this point so I'll probably spring for that. But I'm going to hold it off for another month or so, just in case Shuttle or AOpen has something else up their sleeve.
Btw, great site MikeC, and I especially appreciate your taking the time to talk to us commoners in the forums.
Btw, great site MikeC, and I especially appreciate your taking the time to talk to us commoners in the forums.
Hazelrah, since you are planning on running an XP Mobile and want passively cooled vid I would sugjest you take a look at the Shuttle SN41G2-V2. The onboard gForce4mx level graphics should do the job for you, and it evn offers dual-head output.
If you drop in a garden variety Vantec Stealth fan and set the BIOS fan control to it's lowest setting for "Fan 1&3" control, you will be supprised how quiet it can be. Just remember that using a mobile means that you need to set the FSB and multiplier manually to get it running properly, the V2 has full control of those parameters.
If you drop in a garden variety Vantec Stealth fan and set the BIOS fan control to it's lowest setting for "Fan 1&3" control, you will be supprised how quiet it can be. Just remember that using a mobile means that you need to set the FSB and multiplier manually to get it running properly, the V2 has full control of those parameters.
Stay away from Vantec Stealths. I've just done a test and my M version (medium flow) Globe fans push more air at 3.3V than the Vantec at 5V and are quieter on top.
I've had the opportunity to examine a AOpen EA65 (the AV version) and I found it pretty quiet. My wallet is itching for one of those.....
The AOpen Athlon versions E(x)18's have 220W power supplies instead of the 275Ws on most P4 versions. You might want to be careful selecting your vid card not to overload your 5V rail. Is DVI really necessary? If it's just for dual displays, the onboard VGA has two outputs already on the EZ18.
I've had the opportunity to examine a AOpen EA65 (the AV version) and I found it pretty quiet. My wallet is itching for one of those.....
The AOpen Athlon versions E(x)18's have 220W power supplies instead of the 275Ws on most P4 versions. You might want to be careful selecting your vid card not to overload your 5V rail. Is DVI really necessary? If it's just for dual displays, the onboard VGA has two outputs already on the EZ18.
Thanks for the additional advice. I actually went for the EZ18 and am waiting for all my components to get in. I didn't get the mobile chip because the AOpen apparently doesn't support the correct multiplier settings, so I'm goign with a plain Barton 2500+. For a video card, I got a passive-cooled Radeon 9200 (regular, not SE). It'll be a little faster than the MX 400 and take some stress off the CPU and memory systems, at least that's my understanding of it. DVI is even more important than dual head because I want to use a LCD (eventually, at least) and never have enough money for two monitors anyway.
If I need extra cooling I've heard good things about the Zalmon slim fan. This is my first time putting a SFF together so I hope everything works out! I'll update this thread with my findings for those interested.
If I need extra cooling I've heard good things about the Zalmon slim fan. This is my first time putting a SFF together so I hope everything works out! I'll update this thread with my findings for those interested.
I recently setup an EZ18 and here are my initial experiences:
I had an old XP2000+ Palomino core lying around so I put that in. Not the best choice for a quiet rig, but I'd thought I'd used that until I had a chance to get a Mobile XP or transfer the one from my main rig (for the mobiles, even if the board doesn't set the correct multiplier, assume you can set it manually in BIOS or use CPUMSR/Clockgen utilities to do it from Windows).
* First I found the heatsink clip quite difficult to put on, especially with the very tight space and power supply in the way. Tried to unscrew the PSU to move it out, but forget all the wires are neatly tied to the frame and did not want to cut and retie myself. Ended up having to bend the clip a little (lower the tension) in order to get the HSF on. Other than that, rest of the installation went smoothly.
* Heat can be an issue, maybe more so with the Athlon? During Windows install the CPU overheat alarm went off (a pretty loud siren), but taking off the cover solved this problem. I think I set the BIOS alarm for 70C and later read on AOpen forum seems the BIOS doesn't kickup the fan until 70C (can that be true?). In anycase I undervolted and underclocked the CPU to be on the safe side.
* As for noise, well I had an old IBM 3.5" 7200RPM 40GB lying around so I put that in. The spin noise alone was really loud and whiny, no need to even mention the seek noise or any other fan noise. And it didn't even have to do with coupling to the case as taking it out of the case and holding it made no difference. Unfortunately I could not find a single store locally that carries the Samsung 3.5" HD
I was ready to settle for a notebook Fujitsu drive or maybe the IBM 80GN which was readily available, when I really lucked out and stumbled upon a store carrying the Samsung 2.5" 5400rpm 8MB/40GB drive mentioned on this site. Boy was I a happy camper
, that plus the drive only cost $85 and $3 for the adaptor (was actually cheaper than equivalent IBM/Fujitsu). Now this was silence. I suspended it in the drive cage using long thin rubber balloons (couldn't get the right size elastic). Probably didn't need to suspend it, but I didn't have the mounting adaptor to get the 2.5" into a 3.5" cage. Besides the head calibration noise at bootup, can't hear the drive at all. Temps wise under stress it doesn't go above 41C which I hope is acceptable (spec to 55C).
* With the HDD noise out of the way, well there was still the fan noise. With BIOS controlling the fan, it's somewhat quiet, but can still hear some whining. Most annoying though is it seems the fan speed is continuosly varying between 1600-1700 rpm and the I find that noise variation extremely annoying. I tried installing the Silentek II software version 4.01.05 but that also has its problems. The main problem is that you can vary the fan speed in steps from full speed (approx 5300rpm) down to 2000rpm, then suddenly the next step becomes 1000rpm. Unfortunately the sweet quiet spot is right between these two settings, maybe around 1600rpm. At 1000rpm the system runs too hot (PSU fan will also kick into hi/loud speed), and although very silent you can hear a buzzing noise from the fan, my guess is because the board uses PWM to vary the voltage. Maybe some engineers can educate us on how to smooth out the voltage possibly by adding some capacitors? Besides this, Silentek also had some problems with not saving settings properly, doing wierd things when booting/rebooting, unstable readings, etc. Very good idea, but still needs some work, at least for using on the EZ18.
* So for me this is till WIP. I got a Zalman Fanmate controller, so I think I will go this way instead of relying on the BIOS/Silentek which was the original intention. I may also replace the CPU fan depending on the final cooling/noise performance. Hopefully the PSU fan won't need any modding but if everything else is running near silent than that will probably become audible. I also have a Zalmann thin 92mm installed at the intake side, but haven't turned that on since the drive was cool enough. Guess I would need an additional fan controller if I were to use it (Silentek2 also had the problem of being unable to hit the RPM sweet spot).
Thanks if all other EZ(or EX or EY) 18 users would share their quieting experiences.
Two last points not related to heat/noise.
* I noticed the quality of the onboard video doesn't seem as nice compared to my 9700pro (talking about 2D display). It doesn't seem as sharp/clear and instead slightly washed out. Of course it is connected to my LCD using VGA versus the 9700pro connected to the same LCD using DVI, however I had the 9700pro connected using the VGA before and it did not seem very different from the DVI quality.
* There is a Jukebox/BIOS CD player function which may not be that useful considering system boots up relatively quickly, however it is a feature. Unfortunately I cannot get any sound even when the player shows it is playing and volume at maximum (and yes playing CDs works fine in Windows). I suspect it is because the analog audio cable is not connected to the CD-ROM, however there is no analog audio plug connector on the built in sound card? Is AOpen including a feature that can't possibly work, or maybe there is a proprietary function in Aopen drives?
I had an old XP2000+ Palomino core lying around so I put that in. Not the best choice for a quiet rig, but I'd thought I'd used that until I had a chance to get a Mobile XP or transfer the one from my main rig (for the mobiles, even if the board doesn't set the correct multiplier, assume you can set it manually in BIOS or use CPUMSR/Clockgen utilities to do it from Windows).
* First I found the heatsink clip quite difficult to put on, especially with the very tight space and power supply in the way. Tried to unscrew the PSU to move it out, but forget all the wires are neatly tied to the frame and did not want to cut and retie myself. Ended up having to bend the clip a little (lower the tension) in order to get the HSF on. Other than that, rest of the installation went smoothly.
* Heat can be an issue, maybe more so with the Athlon? During Windows install the CPU overheat alarm went off (a pretty loud siren), but taking off the cover solved this problem. I think I set the BIOS alarm for 70C and later read on AOpen forum seems the BIOS doesn't kickup the fan until 70C (can that be true?). In anycase I undervolted and underclocked the CPU to be on the safe side.
* As for noise, well I had an old IBM 3.5" 7200RPM 40GB lying around so I put that in. The spin noise alone was really loud and whiny, no need to even mention the seek noise or any other fan noise. And it didn't even have to do with coupling to the case as taking it out of the case and holding it made no difference. Unfortunately I could not find a single store locally that carries the Samsung 3.5" HD
I was ready to settle for a notebook Fujitsu drive or maybe the IBM 80GN which was readily available, when I really lucked out and stumbled upon a store carrying the Samsung 2.5" 5400rpm 8MB/40GB drive mentioned on this site. Boy was I a happy camper
, that plus the drive only cost $85 and $3 for the adaptor (was actually cheaper than equivalent IBM/Fujitsu). Now this was silence. I suspended it in the drive cage using long thin rubber balloons (couldn't get the right size elastic). Probably didn't need to suspend it, but I didn't have the mounting adaptor to get the 2.5" into a 3.5" cage. Besides the head calibration noise at bootup, can't hear the drive at all. Temps wise under stress it doesn't go above 41C which I hope is acceptable (spec to 55C).* With the HDD noise out of the way, well there was still the fan noise. With BIOS controlling the fan, it's somewhat quiet, but can still hear some whining. Most annoying though is it seems the fan speed is continuosly varying between 1600-1700 rpm and the I find that noise variation extremely annoying. I tried installing the Silentek II software version 4.01.05 but that also has its problems. The main problem is that you can vary the fan speed in steps from full speed (approx 5300rpm) down to 2000rpm, then suddenly the next step becomes 1000rpm. Unfortunately the sweet quiet spot is right between these two settings, maybe around 1600rpm. At 1000rpm the system runs too hot (PSU fan will also kick into hi/loud speed), and although very silent you can hear a buzzing noise from the fan, my guess is because the board uses PWM to vary the voltage. Maybe some engineers can educate us on how to smooth out the voltage possibly by adding some capacitors? Besides this, Silentek also had some problems with not saving settings properly, doing wierd things when booting/rebooting, unstable readings, etc. Very good idea, but still needs some work, at least for using on the EZ18.
* So for me this is till WIP. I got a Zalman Fanmate controller, so I think I will go this way instead of relying on the BIOS/Silentek which was the original intention. I may also replace the CPU fan depending on the final cooling/noise performance. Hopefully the PSU fan won't need any modding but if everything else is running near silent than that will probably become audible. I also have a Zalmann thin 92mm installed at the intake side, but haven't turned that on since the drive was cool enough. Guess I would need an additional fan controller if I were to use it (Silentek2 also had the problem of being unable to hit the RPM sweet spot).
Thanks if all other EZ(or EX or EY) 18 users would share their quieting experiences.
Two last points not related to heat/noise.
* I noticed the quality of the onboard video doesn't seem as nice compared to my 9700pro (talking about 2D display). It doesn't seem as sharp/clear and instead slightly washed out. Of course it is connected to my LCD using VGA versus the 9700pro connected to the same LCD using DVI, however I had the 9700pro connected using the VGA before and it did not seem very different from the DVI quality.
* There is a Jukebox/BIOS CD player function which may not be that useful considering system boots up relatively quickly, however it is a feature. Unfortunately I cannot get any sound even when the player shows it is playing and volume at maximum (and yes playing CDs works fine in Windows). I suspect it is because the analog audio cable is not connected to the CD-ROM, however there is no analog audio plug connector on the built in sound card? Is AOpen including a feature that can't possibly work, or maybe there is a proprietary function in Aopen drives?
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MikeC
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- Posts: 12285
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Hifriday --
Welcome to SPCR. You've probably been floating here a long time & only just decided to post today, right?
Glad to hear someone decided to try the Samsung 2.5" 5400 HDD. Its quiet and pretty fast, isn't it?!
Re -- the jukeboxcd function. Did you mess with tall the relevant BIOS settings? I did manage to get it working, can't recall all the details, but the front panel headphone output worked fine (not on the CD drive).
The CPU fan: I found the SilentBIOS worked fine, but maybe the min speed was good enough for the CPU I used (it was an EZ65 so the thermals were a bit different anyway). I find SilentBIOS works well enough that I don't even bother with SilentTek on AOpen boards anymore. Just the flat fixed speed is best, to me. No fan variances.
Welcome to SPCR. You've probably been floating here a long time & only just decided to post today, right?
Glad to hear someone decided to try the Samsung 2.5" 5400 HDD. Its quiet and pretty fast, isn't it?!
Re -- the jukeboxcd function. Did you mess with tall the relevant BIOS settings? I did manage to get it working, can't recall all the details, but the front panel headphone output worked fine (not on the CD drive).
The CPU fan: I found the SilentBIOS worked fine, but maybe the min speed was good enough for the CPU I used (it was an EZ65 so the thermals were a bit different anyway). I find SilentBIOS works well enough that I don't even bother with SilentTek on AOpen boards anymore. Just the flat fixed speed is best, to me. No fan variances.
Hello Mike,
Right you are, and cheers to a wonderful site with very useful information.
Yeah Samsung 2.5" is great, and really is close to 7200rpm performance (as you mentioned). Thanks that you mentioned this gem, otherwise never would even have thought to look for it. Compared with a 3.5" very small trade-off in performance, small trade-off in price, slightly more trade-off in capacity, but you unbeatable silence!
For Jukebox, I looked all over the BIOS settings, think everything is setup right. I assume you did not have to connect the analog audio cable on the CD drive to the mobo? In which case guess it runs via DAE? I am using an Asus 16x DVD, still not sure why it doesn't work maybe its the drive.
For CPU, guess the Pentium you used cools better than my old Palomino core. SilentBIOS is much more compatible/integrated with the system than Silentek as you mentioned, but don't know why mine keeps reving up and down. Maybe a replacement fan would run better with SilentBIOS? I'll try that out along with the Zalman fanmate and see which works better.
Maybe the bios on the 65 works better with the mobo than the 18? But I still can't justify the value of a P4 over AMD and the thought of paying double for Intel ($80 for an XPM2400+ vs $160 for a P42.4C). On another post you mentioned P4s no longer available in non-Prescott form, you're not referring to retail are you? Does that mean retail stock will run out soon maybe thats why there such a big wave of i915 boards? and I was waiting for a further price drop to pick up a 2.8C...
BTW 2theMax (Epox?) has put out a Pentium M board, any chance of your site reviewing one or another Pentium M board in the near future?
Right you are, and cheers to a wonderful site with very useful information.
Yeah Samsung 2.5" is great, and really is close to 7200rpm performance (as you mentioned). Thanks that you mentioned this gem, otherwise never would even have thought to look for it. Compared with a 3.5" very small trade-off in performance, small trade-off in price, slightly more trade-off in capacity, but you unbeatable silence!
For Jukebox, I looked all over the BIOS settings, think everything is setup right. I assume you did not have to connect the analog audio cable on the CD drive to the mobo? In which case guess it runs via DAE? I am using an Asus 16x DVD, still not sure why it doesn't work maybe its the drive.
For CPU, guess the Pentium you used cools better than my old Palomino core. SilentBIOS is much more compatible/integrated with the system than Silentek as you mentioned, but don't know why mine keeps reving up and down. Maybe a replacement fan would run better with SilentBIOS? I'll try that out along with the Zalman fanmate and see which works better.
Maybe the bios on the 65 works better with the mobo than the 18? But I still can't justify the value of a P4 over AMD and the thought of paying double for Intel ($80 for an XPM2400+ vs $160 for a P42.4C). On another post you mentioned P4s no longer available in non-Prescott form, you're not referring to retail are you? Does that mean retail stock will run out soon maybe thats why there such a big wave of i915 boards? and I was waiting for a further price drop to pick up a 2.8C...
BTW 2theMax (Epox?) has put out a Pentium M board, any chance of your site reviewing one or another Pentium M board in the near future?
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MikeC
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Just look around -- you'll see that retail prices of NW P4s have started to climb and are higher than Prescotts of the same speed. Demand >> supply >> price. They are not only on their way out; I think Intel has stopped making them so what's in the channels is all that's left.you mentioned P4s no longer available in non-Prescott form, you're not referring to retail are you? Does that mean retail stock will run out soon maybe thats why there such a big wave of i915 boards? and I was waiting for a further price drop to pick up a 2.8C...
Of course! I was not aware of this! Epox??BTW 2theMax (Epox?) has put out a Pentium M board, any chance of your site reviewing one or another Pentium M board in the near future?
EDIT: OK, checked the Epos site -- that's an industrial Embedded CPU single board computer in 5.25â€
Sorry for the off topic.
Actually the board I saw was 2theMax 4MTI2H. The article was in a Chinese mag, unfortunately I can't read it, but from the photo it looks like a m-ATX board? It's got 3 PCI slots, 2 IDE, 1 FDD?, 2 RAM slots, Socket 479?, and three unknown connectors (look like reduced IDE with 2x7 pins). The back panel had PS2 connectors, 4 USB, GB lan, parallel, serial, and a VGA connector. The CPU heatsink is extra long and goes over both the 855 and the CPU. I didn't find it on 2theMax or Epox websites though.
In their benchmarks, a PM715 (Dothan 1.5 2MB) came out close to and even above a P2.8E so thought this might be promising cool and powerful alternative to A64 (unfortunately no AGP).
Actually the board I saw was 2theMax 4MTI2H. The article was in a Chinese mag, unfortunately I can't read it, but from the photo it looks like a m-ATX board? It's got 3 PCI slots, 2 IDE, 1 FDD?, 2 RAM slots, Socket 479?, and three unknown connectors (look like reduced IDE with 2x7 pins). The back panel had PS2 connectors, 4 USB, GB lan, parallel, serial, and a VGA connector. The CPU heatsink is extra long and goes over both the 855 and the CPU. I didn't find it on 2theMax or Epox websites though.
In their benchmarks, a PM715 (Dothan 1.5 2MB) came out close to and even above a P2.8E so thought this might be promising cool and powerful alternative to A64 (unfortunately no AGP).
(Sorry to bring us back on topic again. )
After Hifriday's great descriptions I really don't have too much to add. I haven't even gotten around to putting Windows on it yet, just using boot CDs and testing components and the like.
For me, hard drive noise is pretty minimal compared to the fan sound. I went for a 160 GB / 2 MB cache Samsung Spinpoint and at $100 I can't really justify going to a 2.5" drive yet. If we do find a way to get fan noise down then I will want to more seriously consider Mike's great suggestion about leaving the big drives for an external enclosure.
Regarding the mobile XPs, from what I understand the BIOS doesn't allow for the correct multipliers. However if it works with the Windows utils then I'll definitely look into it.
Anyway please do keep us updated on your progress, and I'll be trying some things out on my own as well.
)After Hifriday's great descriptions I really don't have too much to add. I haven't even gotten around to putting Windows on it yet, just using boot CDs and testing components and the like.
For me, hard drive noise is pretty minimal compared to the fan sound. I went for a 160 GB / 2 MB cache Samsung Spinpoint and at $100 I can't really justify going to a 2.5" drive yet. If we do find a way to get fan noise down then I will want to more seriously consider Mike's great suggestion about leaving the big drives for an external enclosure.
Regarding the mobile XPs, from what I understand the BIOS doesn't allow for the correct multipliers. However if it works with the Windows utils then I'll definitely look into it.
Anyway please do keep us updated on your progress, and I'll be trying some things out on my own as well.
Hazelrah,
How is it coming with your EZ18?
I've had a chance to spend some more time to try to make mine quieter and here are my experiences.
Putting a fanmate controller on the CPU fan did not seem to help all that much, as there was still a whining noise. Took out the fan and found that it
- vibrated a lot, even at 5 volts
- possibly coupling with the heatsink made this worse
- and also the air being pushed through the heatsink also makes a whine instead of just a whoosh
The fan that came with my EZ18 was an Everflow R127015DU
I tried to find a quieter 70mm fan, but didn't have much luck. I got my hands on a Sunon "Magnetic Levitation System" fan PKD1207PHV1-A (believe rated 4800RPM) and although high speed figured it could be undervolted and run smoothly. However when I got it home and compared it to the stock fan, it didn't seem much better. Vibrated all the same even at 5v and was also whiny. Guess MLS technology didn't really help much. Also picked up a low speed NMB fan, but that was chattery and even louder. Also had a chance to see the YS Tech fan w/ motor mechanism on the sides, but that vibrated even more than the Sunon.
** DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY QUIET 70MM FANS?!
I had two 80mm fans handy, one ADDA fan off an old Lian Li case and a Panaflo M. The Panaflo was quieter and lower RPM, but my particular one had a slight clicking so I decided not to use it. The ADDA was loud, but very smooth, moved a lot of air, and when volted down only a smooth whooshing can be heard. The problem of course was that I could not attach the 80mm fan to the heatsink, and there was no room for the thicker/wider 80mm fan inside the case with the MCP-T heatsink so close by.
Well I found a very ugly solution, but it seems to work. I put the heatsink back on without the fan, then seperately wedged the 80mm fan between the MCP-T heatsink and the power cables blowing slightly downwards. It's a pretty tight fit and the fan doesn't budge unless you push/pull pretty hard. Then I made a duct from the fan to the heatsink by taping over some aluminum foil using electricians tape. Maybe cardboard would have been a better choice, and not sure electricians tape is a good choice for the heatsink (acutally the black shell covering the heatsink does not get that hot) but I was too lazy to cut and with al foil it was easy to shape. Definitely not elegant and not very transportable, but it'll do for now until a better solution surfaces. I had to wiggle it quite a bit to get the CD drive/hard drive cage to slide back in, but finally it fit.
I then attached the 80mm fan through the fanmate controller. Unfortunately my fan doesn't have a fan speed readout, and I believe one is needed to bootup or at least with SilentBIOS enabled, otherwise mine would automatically shutdown before posting. I put in a thin Zalman 92mm (which has the speed readout) on the air intake/left side and plugged that into the CPU fan header.
And the results, well the sound is definitely smoother than the stock fan and the noise level is slightly less. Very subjectively I would say the overall system fan noise is slightly louder than my Asus Pundit (old version) running a Celeron 2.2.
Unfortunately there is still a very faint whining I believe from the air passing through the heatsink (but much better since the fan is now 3/4 inch away from the heatsink). I do have the system about 1m away to my left (ie. CPU fan blowing towards me) and at desktop level which probably is the worst place for it. I had originally hoped to place it on my desk (I like the clean look) but its still too loud for me during the still hours of the night. With the amount of the heat being blown out the side (i/o the back) it might make a nice foot warmer placed below the desk.
For what it's worth, I am running a Palomino 1.4v @120x12.5 and getting max temps under Prime95 of ambient 29C, sys 43C, CPU 56C, HDD 43C.
** ANYONE ELSE WITH AN AOPEN EZ18/EX18/EY18 THANKS TO SHARE YOUR QUIETING EXPERIENCES
One last thought was to replace the heatsink with a better one. I temporarily had an old Coolermaster all copper heat sink with heat pipes and 60mm fan volted down, and actually that was smooth and quiet, but didn't work at all for keeping the case cool as air was blown downwards and not out the side. I saw Thermtake seems to have a tower cooler that blows air sideways, but it was huge. Probably too tall and unfortunately required mounting holes on the MB which the EZ18 doesn't have.
** ANYONE KNOW OF A GOOD SOCKET A COOLER THAT BLOWS AIR SIDEWAYS ACROSS THE HEATSINK?
PS:
Regarding the 2.5" Samsung harddisk, I would like to revise my previous comments. Actually with case open, the drive seeks can be heard, and with case closed, only if you have your ear within 1 foot but very faint. Otherwise it is practically silent.
For the onboard VGA, I could live with the fuzziness/washed out look of 2D Windows text/graphics and spent an extra $50 for a ATI9250 low profile/fanless AGP card. The image is much sharper and contrast much better (no more washed out look). The shop I bought it from made a general statement that the quality of Nvidia on board video was not very good, I don't know how true that is, but for my particular EZ18 matched with my LCD it was. Maybe it looks fine on CRTs.
How is it coming with your EZ18?
I've had a chance to spend some more time to try to make mine quieter and here are my experiences.
Putting a fanmate controller on the CPU fan did not seem to help all that much, as there was still a whining noise. Took out the fan and found that it
- vibrated a lot, even at 5 volts
- possibly coupling with the heatsink made this worse
- and also the air being pushed through the heatsink also makes a whine instead of just a whoosh
The fan that came with my EZ18 was an Everflow R127015DU
I tried to find a quieter 70mm fan, but didn't have much luck. I got my hands on a Sunon "Magnetic Levitation System" fan PKD1207PHV1-A (believe rated 4800RPM) and although high speed figured it could be undervolted and run smoothly. However when I got it home and compared it to the stock fan, it didn't seem much better. Vibrated all the same even at 5v and was also whiny. Guess MLS technology didn't really help much. Also picked up a low speed NMB fan, but that was chattery and even louder. Also had a chance to see the YS Tech fan w/ motor mechanism on the sides, but that vibrated even more than the Sunon.
** DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY QUIET 70MM FANS?!
I had two 80mm fans handy, one ADDA fan off an old Lian Li case and a Panaflo M. The Panaflo was quieter and lower RPM, but my particular one had a slight clicking so I decided not to use it. The ADDA was loud, but very smooth, moved a lot of air, and when volted down only a smooth whooshing can be heard. The problem of course was that I could not attach the 80mm fan to the heatsink, and there was no room for the thicker/wider 80mm fan inside the case with the MCP-T heatsink so close by.
Well I found a very ugly solution, but it seems to work. I put the heatsink back on without the fan, then seperately wedged the 80mm fan between the MCP-T heatsink and the power cables blowing slightly downwards. It's a pretty tight fit and the fan doesn't budge unless you push/pull pretty hard. Then I made a duct from the fan to the heatsink by taping over some aluminum foil using electricians tape. Maybe cardboard would have been a better choice, and not sure electricians tape is a good choice for the heatsink (acutally the black shell covering the heatsink does not get that hot) but I was too lazy to cut and with al foil it was easy to shape. Definitely not elegant and not very transportable, but it'll do for now until a better solution surfaces. I had to wiggle it quite a bit to get the CD drive/hard drive cage to slide back in, but finally it fit.
I then attached the 80mm fan through the fanmate controller. Unfortunately my fan doesn't have a fan speed readout, and I believe one is needed to bootup or at least with SilentBIOS enabled, otherwise mine would automatically shutdown before posting. I put in a thin Zalman 92mm (which has the speed readout) on the air intake/left side and plugged that into the CPU fan header.
And the results, well the sound is definitely smoother than the stock fan and the noise level is slightly less. Very subjectively I would say the overall system fan noise is slightly louder than my Asus Pundit (old version) running a Celeron 2.2.
Unfortunately there is still a very faint whining I believe from the air passing through the heatsink (but much better since the fan is now 3/4 inch away from the heatsink). I do have the system about 1m away to my left (ie. CPU fan blowing towards me) and at desktop level which probably is the worst place for it. I had originally hoped to place it on my desk (I like the clean look) but its still too loud for me during the still hours of the night. With the amount of the heat being blown out the side (i/o the back) it might make a nice foot warmer placed below the desk.
For what it's worth, I am running a Palomino 1.4v @120x12.5 and getting max temps under Prime95 of ambient 29C, sys 43C, CPU 56C, HDD 43C.
** ANYONE ELSE WITH AN AOPEN EZ18/EX18/EY18 THANKS TO SHARE YOUR QUIETING EXPERIENCES
One last thought was to replace the heatsink with a better one. I temporarily had an old Coolermaster all copper heat sink with heat pipes and 60mm fan volted down, and actually that was smooth and quiet, but didn't work at all for keeping the case cool as air was blown downwards and not out the side. I saw Thermtake seems to have a tower cooler that blows air sideways, but it was huge. Probably too tall and unfortunately required mounting holes on the MB which the EZ18 doesn't have.
** ANYONE KNOW OF A GOOD SOCKET A COOLER THAT BLOWS AIR SIDEWAYS ACROSS THE HEATSINK?
PS:
Regarding the 2.5" Samsung harddisk, I would like to revise my previous comments. Actually with case open, the drive seeks can be heard, and with case closed, only if you have your ear within 1 foot but very faint. Otherwise it is practically silent.
For the onboard VGA, I could live with the fuzziness/washed out look of 2D Windows text/graphics and spent an extra $50 for a ATI9250 low profile/fanless AGP card. The image is much sharper and contrast much better (no more washed out look). The shop I bought it from made a general statement that the quality of Nvidia on board video was not very good, I don't know how true that is, but for my particular EZ18 matched with my LCD it was. Maybe it looks fine on CRTs.
Thanks for the update Hifriday. I'm still thinking about how to tackle the CPU fan problem. The point you make about the heatsink whine is very good.
One thing I did do was add a Zalman slim 80mm fan for the hard drive, this is the same thing that flyingsherpa did here. At 5V this fan can't be heard over the CPU fan and brings my Samsung HDD temp down from ~49 degrees to 35-37.
This worked so well that I thought about getting another one and replacing the CPU fan with it. At 80x80x15 mm, I don't know if it will fit, but since it's 15 mm I think it should. It doesn't have a speed readout either so I may have to try your solution with the Zalman 92mm. Question, how do you detach the stock fan from the heatsink? I can't remember if it was glued or screwed on.
I'm trying to find some places nearby that sell more heatsinks and hopefully I'll run across something that looks more promising. Also I tried a Radeon 9200 in my AGP slot and couldn't get any signal from it, but I'm going to upgrade the BIOS and try this again.
One thing I did do was add a Zalman slim 80mm fan for the hard drive, this is the same thing that flyingsherpa did here. At 5V this fan can't be heard over the CPU fan and brings my Samsung HDD temp down from ~49 degrees to 35-37.
This worked so well that I thought about getting another one and replacing the CPU fan with it. At 80x80x15 mm, I don't know if it will fit, but since it's 15 mm I think it should. It doesn't have a speed readout either so I may have to try your solution with the Zalman 92mm. Question, how do you detach the stock fan from the heatsink? I can't remember if it was glued or screwed on.
I'm trying to find some places nearby that sell more heatsinks and hopefully I'll run across something that looks more promising. Also I tried a Radeon 9200 in my AGP slot and couldn't get any signal from it, but I'm going to upgrade the BIOS and try this again.
Not sure about Nvidia, but it's well-known that the on-board ATI video on the Shuttle Zen has awful image quality. It's not a subtle thing - I had been warned, but had forgotten about it, and instantly (as soon as I turned the PC on), I noticed it. Fine for me, since I use my Zen as a server, and unless I'm going into the BIOS settings, it doesn't even have a screen attached.the quality of Nvidia on board video was not very good
Hazelrah...
I have my 92mm Zalman basically in the same position. I didn't get such big temp drops on my HDD, only a few degrees. In addition SilentBIOS keeps it at 1700-1800rpm which is too loud for the 92mm. Mainly it is the noise of the fan sucking air so close to the grill as with case off it is much quieter. Unfortunately the larger the 92mm seems to only fit close to the case. Maybe I will try a 80mm like yours instead. How far in do you have it (ie how far away from the case or flush to the HDD). Alternative might be to cut out a fan hole, but unfortunately I have no machining skills.
The stock fan is screwed onto the heatsink. You probably won't be able to screw on a 80mm directly, maybe if you can get some fanclips, or fanducts/converters that might work (hopefully you will find a better solution than mine). It might fit with less trouble than my fat 80mm, however when I had my 80mm directly on the heatsink (outside of the case) it didn't seem to blow flan through the heatsink as efficient/effectively as the 70mm. Maybe your fan will work better, keep us posted.
Sorry to hear your 9200 isn't lighting up. I just dropped mine in without changing anything in the BIOS and it worked fine. I did notice with the AGP card plugged in, the onboard video is automatically disabled (and the thought of having 4 monitor ability went down the drain... even though I only have 1 monitor between 2 PCs).
However my 9250 runs very hot, or at least the heatsink is burning to the touch. I wonder if this is normal as I never used a 9200 before? I did glue on an extra heatsink plate from the Zalman VGA cooler onto the 9250 heatsink so with the case closed, this piece acts as a conductor between the 9250 heatsink and the case. Don't know how effective it is though, but just hoping it might help dissipate some heat.
hyslopc...
Thanks for the info, I was contemplating the Zen for an office PC, but poor (or even not great) 2-D quality is a real downer especially when there is no AGP option so I may reconsider.
I have my 92mm Zalman basically in the same position. I didn't get such big temp drops on my HDD, only a few degrees. In addition SilentBIOS keeps it at 1700-1800rpm which is too loud for the 92mm. Mainly it is the noise of the fan sucking air so close to the grill as with case off it is much quieter. Unfortunately the larger the 92mm seems to only fit close to the case. Maybe I will try a 80mm like yours instead. How far in do you have it (ie how far away from the case or flush to the HDD). Alternative might be to cut out a fan hole, but unfortunately I have no machining skills.
The stock fan is screwed onto the heatsink. You probably won't be able to screw on a 80mm directly, maybe if you can get some fanclips, or fanducts/converters that might work (hopefully you will find a better solution than mine). It might fit with less trouble than my fat 80mm, however when I had my 80mm directly on the heatsink (outside of the case) it didn't seem to blow flan through the heatsink as efficient/effectively as the 70mm. Maybe your fan will work better, keep us posted.
Sorry to hear your 9200 isn't lighting up. I just dropped mine in without changing anything in the BIOS and it worked fine. I did notice with the AGP card plugged in, the onboard video is automatically disabled (and the thought of having 4 monitor ability went down the drain... even though I only have 1 monitor between 2 PCs).
However my 9250 runs very hot, or at least the heatsink is burning to the touch. I wonder if this is normal as I never used a 9200 before? I did glue on an extra heatsink plate from the Zalman VGA cooler onto the 9250 heatsink so with the case closed, this piece acts as a conductor between the 9250 heatsink and the case. Don't know how effective it is though, but just hoping it might help dissipate some heat.
hyslopc...
Thanks for the info, I was contemplating the Zen for an office PC, but poor (or even not great) 2-D quality is a real downer especially when there is no AGP option so I may reconsider.
-
MikeC
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12285
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
- Contact:
Funny, it never struck me that way, and I've been using it off/on for months. Certainly no worse (better) than the integrated "extreme graphics" Intel boards come with. I don't have any serious issues w/it at all. Using a 19" CRT at 1024/85 refresh. No games, only web & audio recording/analysis apps.hyslopc wrote:Not sure about Nvidia, but it's well-known that the on-board ATI video on the Shuttle Zen has awful image quality. It's not a subtle thing - I had been warned, but had forgotten about it, and instantly (as soon as I turned the PC on), I noticed it. Fine for me, since I use my Zen as a server, and unless I'm going into the BIOS settings, it doesn't even have a screen attached.
Maybe they have a QC problem? Mine is pretty poor. Not so you can't read the text or anything, just - well, a bit blurry. Then again, I never bothered really fiddling with it to see if I could get any improvement, since like I said, my Zen is a server sitting in a cupboard. When I need to access it, I use remote desktop.
Next time I fiddle with the BIOS settings, I will spend a few minutes to really check out the video quality and post back here again. Not sure when that will be, though.
Next time I fiddle with the BIOS settings, I will spend a few minutes to really check out the video quality and post back here again. Not sure when that will be, though.
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Ralf Hutter
- SPCR Reviewer
- Posts: 8636
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:33 am
- Location: Sunny SoCal
The graphics on my Zen looked just fine too. Certainly no worse than any other integrated solution. I was using it on a 19" LCD.MikeC wrote:Funny, it never struck me that way, and I've been using it off/on for months. Certainly no worse (better) than the integrated "extreme graphics" Intel boards come with. I don't have any serious issues w/it at all. Using a 19" CRT at 1024/85 refresh. No games, only web & audio recording/analysis apps.hyslopc wrote:Not sure about Nvidia, but it's well-known that the on-board ATI video on the Shuttle Zen has awful image quality. It's not a subtle thing - I had been warned, but had forgotten about it, and instantly (as soon as I turned the PC on), I noticed it. Fine for me, since I use my Zen as a server, and unless I'm going into the BIOS settings, it doesn't even have a screen attached.
My 80x80x15 mm Zalman fits pretty well in that space. There's a white tube running down the side that holds the cables, and the fan fits very neatly against it. I have it very loosely suspended so it's sitting on the little battery there, and there's still a couple millimeters of space between it and the hard drive. I should mention that I don't have a floppy drive installed above the hard drive, so there's probably more airflow/cooling around the drive.
With the Zalman running at 5V I can't hear it at all over the CPU and PSU. This fan doesn't have a speed readout though, so I'm guessing it won't work with the SilentBIOS. But I think an easy option might be to just swap this fan with the CPU fan using the current connectors. The stock fan will probably be quieter once placed away from the heatsink, and the Zalman should work great if 5V is enough cooling for this very hot Barton 2500+.
As for getting the 80mm Zalman on the heatsink, I was thinking I wouldn't need all 4 screws in .. maybe just screw in one of the bottom corners and loosely fasten it on the top, I think that'd be sufficient. I'm going to try it out in the next week or so.
Btw, got the 9200 working, but not sure about heatsink temps -- I'll check it out. Kinda disturbing that there's no vents around the graphics card though.
With the Zalman running at 5V I can't hear it at all over the CPU and PSU. This fan doesn't have a speed readout though, so I'm guessing it won't work with the SilentBIOS. But I think an easy option might be to just swap this fan with the CPU fan using the current connectors. The stock fan will probably be quieter once placed away from the heatsink, and the Zalman should work great if 5V is enough cooling for this very hot Barton 2500+.
As for getting the 80mm Zalman on the heatsink, I was thinking I wouldn't need all 4 screws in .. maybe just screw in one of the bottom corners and loosely fasten it on the top, I think that'd be sufficient. I'm going to try it out in the next week or so.
Btw, got the 9200 working, but not sure about heatsink temps -- I'll check it out. Kinda disturbing that there's no vents around the graphics card though.
Hazelrah,
Thx, I'll try to get an 80mm and see if it works better.
As for the CPU heatsink, just saw some possible replacement options
Coolermate Ice Cube
http://www.pcsilencieux.com/article-40-5.html
Akust Pipe Tower
http://www.pc-cooling.de/catalog/artike ... ts_id=4165
Unfortunately these are not available where I'm at. Do keep us posted how your 80mm works out.
As for your VGA card, how did you get that working? I saw quite a few posts in Aopen forum where people had the same problems of no signal.
Also saw a few posts of others complaining about the fuzziness of the onboard video quality, even one person who tried several Ez18s with the same result. I do think the quality is inferior, but maybe not significantly that everyone notices, just like how some people don't even notice low refresh rates (but drives me nuts).
Thx, I'll try to get an 80mm and see if it works better.
As for the CPU heatsink, just saw some possible replacement options
Coolermate Ice Cube
http://www.pcsilencieux.com/article-40-5.html
Akust Pipe Tower
http://www.pc-cooling.de/catalog/artike ... ts_id=4165
Unfortunately these are not available where I'm at. Do keep us posted how your 80mm works out.
As for your VGA card, how did you get that working? I saw quite a few posts in Aopen forum where people had the same problems of no signal.
Also saw a few posts of others complaining about the fuzziness of the onboard video quality, even one person who tried several Ez18s with the same result. I do think the quality is inferior, but maybe not significantly that everyone notices, just like how some people don't even notice low refresh rates (but drives me nuts).
I did a quick swap of the stock CPU fan for the Zalman ZM-OP1. Since it is 80mm I just have it attached in one corner and it overhangs the sides of the heatsink a bit. However the results are very good. I first left the Zalman on the 5V connector, ran Prime95 for about 2 hours, and the CPU held stable at around 61 degrees C. That probably scares most people but AMD rates their processor to 85 degrees and I figure I won't be pushing 100% CPU very often.
The I tried the Zalman fan with SilentBIOS/SilentTek and was surprised that it worked. (The box says something about not supporting fan readout, but I think it means the optional connector and not the fan itself) The Zalman fan is not only quieter but gives a much lower and more tolerable sound. At ~1000 rpm I consider it silent, using SilentTek I tried it at ~2300 RPM and this is quieter than the stock CPU fan at 5V.
My plan now is to get another Zalman slim fan for the hard drive side, where I used to have it. That way I know one will be silent at 5V and the other I will just leave to SilentBIOS or maybe SilentTek (those random SilentTek warnings are pretty annoying).
I'm not sure how I got my VGA card working, might have been the BIOS update, might also because of something stupid like not having it plugged in all the way. Anyway I noticed it does become really warm like you mentioned. I remember reading that video cards with heatsinks have very high temp ratings so hopefully that is true. Otherwise I hear the ATI 9600 runs very cool, I may want to switch to that when prices go down.
Lastly I suspect video "fuzziness" might have something to do with the monitor and cables as much as the graphics card, but I don't know. Until SFFs come with DVI I'll stick to an extra AGP card.
The I tried the Zalman fan with SilentBIOS/SilentTek and was surprised that it worked. (The box says something about not supporting fan readout, but I think it means the optional connector and not the fan itself) The Zalman fan is not only quieter but gives a much lower and more tolerable sound. At ~1000 rpm I consider it silent, using SilentTek I tried it at ~2300 RPM and this is quieter than the stock CPU fan at 5V.
My plan now is to get another Zalman slim fan for the hard drive side, where I used to have it. That way I know one will be silent at 5V and the other I will just leave to SilentBIOS or maybe SilentTek (those random SilentTek warnings are pretty annoying).
I'm not sure how I got my VGA card working, might have been the BIOS update, might also because of something stupid like not having it plugged in all the way. Anyway I noticed it does become really warm like you mentioned. I remember reading that video cards with heatsinks have very high temp ratings so hopefully that is true. Otherwise I hear the ATI 9600 runs very cool, I may want to switch to that when prices go down.
Lastly I suspect video "fuzziness" might have something to do with the monitor and cables as much as the graphics card, but I don't know. Until SFFs come with DVI I'll stick to an extra AGP card.
Hazelrah...
Your 80mm is only attached with one screw, nothing else? Also flush against the heatsink? This doesn't sound like the most efficient setup for the airflow? BTW what CPU/voltage are you running with the 61C temps?
I just realized that at startup my config above is actually pretty quiet (quieter than stock Asus Pundit), however after running a while (just surfing) the case warms up enough that the PSU fan kicks up. That's what makes it just a little too loud even thought he noise is smooth. The CPU doesn't pass 53C, maybe it's the high ambient, but I'm still hoping to find a better CPU HS replacement that will move air more efficiently (seems most side venting heatsinks are too tall, possibly the recently reviewed scythe but seems wrong orientation). Another alternative maybe to mod the PSU although not sure that would produce significant results.
I also realized my "92mm" thin Zalman was in fact a 80mm (ZM-OP1 off the VGA cooler) so I believe it is the same as the one you have (it does have RPM sensing). When used for the intake fan, I guess it must have been my placement too close to the case for the loudness under SilentBIOS or maybe I need to update my BIOS. BTW which version you using?
If you are using SilentTek2, I found unchecking the system temp monitoring box stopped the annoying random temperature warnings (mine maxes at 43C, its just the random super high temp misreadings that set it off).
Good job to rename the thread.
Your 80mm is only attached with one screw, nothing else? Also flush against the heatsink? This doesn't sound like the most efficient setup for the airflow? BTW what CPU/voltage are you running with the 61C temps?
I just realized that at startup my config above is actually pretty quiet (quieter than stock Asus Pundit), however after running a while (just surfing) the case warms up enough that the PSU fan kicks up. That's what makes it just a little too loud even thought he noise is smooth. The CPU doesn't pass 53C, maybe it's the high ambient, but I'm still hoping to find a better CPU HS replacement that will move air more efficiently (seems most side venting heatsinks are too tall, possibly the recently reviewed scythe but seems wrong orientation). Another alternative maybe to mod the PSU although not sure that would produce significant results.
I also realized my "92mm" thin Zalman was in fact a 80mm (ZM-OP1 off the VGA cooler) so I believe it is the same as the one you have (it does have RPM sensing). When used for the intake fan, I guess it must have been my placement too close to the case for the loudness under SilentBIOS or maybe I need to update my BIOS. BTW which version you using?
If you are using SilentTek2, I found unchecking the system temp monitoring box stopped the annoying random temperature warnings (mine maxes at 43C, its just the random super high temp misreadings that set it off).
Good job to rename the thread.
Sorry about not commenting in this thread lately, but I moved into a new place so I've been busy.
You are probably right in pointing out that the CPU fan placement is not ideal. However it is a very easy way of adding the fan in. Even though it's only secured by one screw, it's pretty tight so I don't think that's going to be a problem.
So the other fan I ordered came, now I have two ZM-OP1s. When you buy these retail, they come with an option power connector so you can run them at 5V, or around 1000 RPM. I tried a couple of setups:
1) CPU fan and system fan both on SilentBIOS/SilentTek. This means they're plugged into the motherboard and I let SilentTek control the speed. I have to use SilentTek because it seems like SilentBIOS wants to keep the system fan on high all the time. Unfortunately SilentTek is still a pain for me to work with. I have to turn off both CPU and system temp monitoring to get rid of the warnings, and even then it'll give me random overflow erros and the like. Also until SilentTek starts up (which can be very slow, assuming it doesn't error first), the system fan is just way too loud.
2) CPU fan and system fan both at 5V. This is using the Zalman power connector so they both run at the quiet speed. Well this solution was fairly quiet but not as much as I had hoped. Before I thought the ZM-OP1 was really quiet but that was just because the stock CPU fan was so loud. With both at 5V I can definitely still hear the humming from a meter away. On the plus side, the sound itself is a low whir and not so annoying. When either my refrigerator or my air conditioner turn on, I can't hear the fans anymore. Also at this speed the CPU gets pretty hot, I think it went to around 63 or 64. I have a Barton 2500 and keeping this thing cool has been a real pain that I may just want to go get an XP-M sometime.
3) CPU fan on SilentBIOS and system fan at 5V. This is how I have it set now. The sound is a little louder than having both at 5V, but again it's not so bad. Also I can turn on SilentTek when I really want to and bump the speed lower, as long as I'm willing to put up with the random program errors.
So that's what I have so far. Cooling the CPU better is definitely something I'm looking into. I got some Arctic Silver Ceramique but am probably not using it correctly. Also I will see what you suggest about getting better airflow around the heatsink. I doubt I can pull off the duct thing you did, but it sounds like a good idea! Let me know if any of those other heatsinks look promising, btw.
You are probably right in pointing out that the CPU fan placement is not ideal. However it is a very easy way of adding the fan in. Even though it's only secured by one screw, it's pretty tight so I don't think that's going to be a problem.
So the other fan I ordered came, now I have two ZM-OP1s. When you buy these retail, they come with an option power connector so you can run them at 5V, or around 1000 RPM. I tried a couple of setups:
1) CPU fan and system fan both on SilentBIOS/SilentTek. This means they're plugged into the motherboard and I let SilentTek control the speed. I have to use SilentTek because it seems like SilentBIOS wants to keep the system fan on high all the time. Unfortunately SilentTek is still a pain for me to work with. I have to turn off both CPU and system temp monitoring to get rid of the warnings, and even then it'll give me random overflow erros and the like. Also until SilentTek starts up (which can be very slow, assuming it doesn't error first), the system fan is just way too loud.
2) CPU fan and system fan both at 5V. This is using the Zalman power connector so they both run at the quiet speed. Well this solution was fairly quiet but not as much as I had hoped. Before I thought the ZM-OP1 was really quiet but that was just because the stock CPU fan was so loud. With both at 5V I can definitely still hear the humming from a meter away. On the plus side, the sound itself is a low whir and not so annoying. When either my refrigerator or my air conditioner turn on, I can't hear the fans anymore. Also at this speed the CPU gets pretty hot, I think it went to around 63 or 64. I have a Barton 2500 and keeping this thing cool has been a real pain that I may just want to go get an XP-M sometime.
3) CPU fan on SilentBIOS and system fan at 5V. This is how I have it set now. The sound is a little louder than having both at 5V, but again it's not so bad. Also I can turn on SilentTek when I really want to and bump the speed lower, as long as I'm willing to put up with the random program errors.
So that's what I have so far. Cooling the CPU better is definitely something I'm looking into. I got some Arctic Silver Ceramique but am probably not using it correctly. Also I will see what you suggest about getting better airflow around the heatsink. I doubt I can pull off the duct thing you did, but it sounds like a good idea! Let me know if any of those other heatsinks look promising, btw.
I agree Silentek has the problems you mentioned and is not the best solution, but at least when it does kick in, the PC does seem very quiet the moment the fans come down from full speed
I tried hard to find a side venting CPU HSF locally but with no luck. Closest I came where things like the Thermaltake Tower or Cooler Master Hyper 6 which were both too tall. I may try to get a CoolerMate IceCube when I travel to Germany next month. This looks like a perfect fit, right orientation, etc. From the online reviews it seems to only be a mediocre cooler, but hopefully better than the Aopen stock one. I will post back if I have any luck.
As for getting a mobile, since you already have a 2500+XP, you might want to try undervolting/underclocking instead unless those extra mhz are important to you. Also maybe some software cooling might help as well
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... sc&start=0
For me the system becomes a little too loud only when the PSU kicks up, do you notice that as well? I'm only running [email protected] so assume your 2500+barton runs much hotter.
I tried hard to find a side venting CPU HSF locally but with no luck. Closest I came where things like the Thermaltake Tower or Cooler Master Hyper 6 which were both too tall. I may try to get a CoolerMate IceCube when I travel to Germany next month. This looks like a perfect fit, right orientation, etc. From the online reviews it seems to only be a mediocre cooler, but hopefully better than the Aopen stock one. I will post back if I have any luck.
As for getting a mobile, since you already have a 2500+XP, you might want to try undervolting/underclocking instead unless those extra mhz are important to you. Also maybe some software cooling might help as well
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... sc&start=0
For me the system becomes a little too loud only when the PSU kicks up, do you notice that as well? I'm only running [email protected] so assume your 2500+barton runs much hotter.
single fan on ez65?
hi guys
my first post here..
i want to buy an ez65 (ez18 downsides for me are no gigabit ethernet and no s-ata, and if the onboard video (dualhead is nice) isn't good quality it is worthless for me).
it must be quiet.. only two big fans is a good start, but maybe not enough.
I was thinking of cooling the whole thing with one 120mm fan and a duct on the CPU.
idea 1: remove psu 80mm fan and cut grill out, use 80-120 adapter to mount 120mm fan externally (with foam layer for vibration decoupling), use dust filter on intake side of this fan). build replacement "inner" PSU cover with 80mm hole and build a duct to direct air to CPU heatsink.
the heatsink could be the intel heatsink or any aftermarket model. (the aopen model won't work because air will come from top).
the fan should blow air into the case, through the PS onto the CPU.
idea2: only modify internal psu cover and remove psu fan, then duct to CPU. benefit: no external fan, maybe quieter. but i don't know if this will fit..
I am planning to use a P4 (surprise), matrox graphics (no cooling worries i hope), single hdd.
the machine runs simulations from time to time (hence needs to be powerful) but idles most of the time.
Can you give me some feedback on this plan? would the single 120mm fan stand a chance of cooling the P4? case temp?
or would two fans actually be quieter?
(the alternative to the "duct idea" is just the big fan outside, internal psu cover removed (kids; this is not safe ) and a bigger fan on the cpu sink.
Thanks alot!
btw great content on this site!
keyne
my first post here..
i want to buy an ez65 (ez18 downsides for me are no gigabit ethernet and no s-ata, and if the onboard video (dualhead is nice) isn't good quality it is worthless for me).
it must be quiet.. only two big fans is a good start, but maybe not enough.
I was thinking of cooling the whole thing with one 120mm fan and a duct on the CPU.
idea 1: remove psu 80mm fan and cut grill out, use 80-120 adapter to mount 120mm fan externally (with foam layer for vibration decoupling), use dust filter on intake side of this fan). build replacement "inner" PSU cover with 80mm hole and build a duct to direct air to CPU heatsink.
the heatsink could be the intel heatsink or any aftermarket model. (the aopen model won't work because air will come from top).
the fan should blow air into the case, through the PS onto the CPU.
idea2: only modify internal psu cover and remove psu fan, then duct to CPU. benefit: no external fan, maybe quieter. but i don't know if this will fit..
I am planning to use a P4 (surprise), matrox graphics (no cooling worries i hope), single hdd.
the machine runs simulations from time to time (hence needs to be powerful) but idles most of the time.
Can you give me some feedback on this plan? would the single 120mm fan stand a chance of cooling the P4? case temp?
or would two fans actually be quieter?
(the alternative to the "duct idea" is just the big fan outside, internal psu cover removed (kids; this is not safe
) and a bigger fan on the cpu sink. Thanks alot!
btw great content on this site!
keyne
-
MikeC
- Site Admin
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- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
- Contact:
keyne --
Chances are the 120mm will not provide enough concentraed airflow across the CPU HS to cool it adequatly unless it's running at pretty high speed. I suggest experimenting with replacing the existing fans with same-size ones if the stock system is too noisy for you.
Also, for a case dust filter to be effective, it must be at the intake of air into the case. No easy way to do this here unless you reverse the PSU fan (or your 120mm fan) airflow (not recommended!) and place the filter on the intake of the fan.
The SilentBIOS fan control is quite effective -- just set to fixed slow speed for best acoustic results. If you can keep the system in a cool place, the PSU fan will not be bad.
I suggest you find a way to suspend the HDD -- it will cause the usual aluminum caser humming unless you do this. I've moved to suspended notebook drives exclusively for SFF cases. The HDD is completely out of the noise equation, and the heat reduces by 6~12W... depending on which desktop HDD you compare it to; notebook drives rarely go above 3W.
Chances are the 120mm will not provide enough concentraed airflow across the CPU HS to cool it adequatly unless it's running at pretty high speed. I suggest experimenting with replacing the existing fans with same-size ones if the stock system is too noisy for you.
Also, for a case dust filter to be effective, it must be at the intake of air into the case. No easy way to do this here unless you reverse the PSU fan (or your 120mm fan) airflow (not recommended!) and place the filter on the intake of the fan.
The SilentBIOS fan control is quite effective -- just set to fixed slow speed for best acoustic results. If you can keep the system in a cool place, the PSU fan will not be bad.
I suggest you find a way to suspend the HDD -- it will cause the usual aluminum caser humming unless you do this. I've moved to suspended notebook drives exclusively for SFF cases. The HDD is completely out of the noise equation, and the heat reduces by 6~12W... depending on which desktop HDD you compare it to; notebook drives rarely go above 3W.
Thanks for the response Mike.
I was planning to use the 120mm psu fan replacement to blow air into the case. Why would you not recommend this?
Good point on the notebook drive. The computer will load all user files from a file server (my present, big, noisy computer) so it won't need much space. maybe i can find a 10GB notebook drive for it for cheap. even the better new drives are only 80€ so i'll consider it seriously!
If i go with a 3,5" drive it will also be suspended somehow and i'll put a heatsink on it.
i guess i'll have to use two slow fans to keep inside air and cpu relatively cool...
I was planning to use the 120mm psu fan replacement to blow air into the case. Why would you not recommend this?
Good point on the notebook drive. The computer will load all user files from a file server (my present, big, noisy computer) so it won't need much space. maybe i can find a 10GB notebook drive for it for cheap. even the better new drives are only 80€ so i'll consider it seriously!
If i go with a 3,5" drive it will also be suspended somehow and i'll put a heatsink on it.
i guess i'll have to use two slow fans to keep inside air and cpu relatively cool...