I am a little surprised that there has been so little discussion about the Zonbu desktop on these forums, any SPCRer have one? With some of the advantages this system offers I would have thought there would have been a lot more talk.
1) A totally silent PC out-of-the-box
(How many of us have struggled in the past to acheive this goal)
2) Extremely low power efficiency if not the lowest ever - average 9W AC draw!!
(Only slightly more than most PCs draw when powered-off simply plugged into the wall)
3) Very small form factor, about 80% the volume of a Mac Mini - albeit sans optical drive
(perfect for a zero-footprint mounting behind the LCD)
4) Reasonable price which is not excessively more than a DIY PC - $300 without any service plan/subscription
(I just built a budget mini-itx with the D201GLY2 for around $200, and although it has more processing power, the system draws over 30W idle, won't run fanless, and over 3 times in size)
5) Plus performance is acceptable for light tasks such as surfing/email/skype/office documents and all this software comes installed in a nice usable package.
Wouldn't this make a perfect second PC, especially for those of us guilty of leaving our PCs on idling, just to have easy instant access when we do use it? With many PCs idling from 60-100+W, that would be equivalent to powering the Zonbu 6-10 hours for every hour the main PC is idling. With many monitors offering dual inputs (suspect many people have an open VGA port) it could share the existing monitor and would be easy to switch back and forth between the main PC. The Zonbu can be left on for light tasks and the main PC only powered on for heavier tasks.
Anyone have the Zonbu?
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Much like the Mac Mini or the iMac don't get much coverage here, I believe the reason the Zonbu hasn't been mentioned much is that most SPCRers like to tinker, like to pick and choose their own components and be free to upgrade as they wish.
The biggest turn off for the Zonbu is they're really pushing the monthly subscription. I can't even find the Zonbu's "regular" price without subscription. Am I obligated to pay them monthly? I'm soooo tired of every executive on Earth trying to find ways to nickel & dime me to death, hoping that I won't notice one more monthly debit payment, no matter how small...
The biggest turn off for the Zonbu is they're really pushing the monthly subscription. I can't even find the Zonbu's "regular" price without subscription. Am I obligated to pay them monthly? I'm soooo tired of every executive on Earth trying to find ways to nickel & dime me to death, hoping that I won't notice one more monthly debit payment, no matter how small...
Are you affiliated with Zonbu? Some of your parenthesised statements sound a little like sales pitches.
Some folks on here are interested in Via based systems. You will see other threads talking about Via based boards that are available for around $60 or $70. Since you can get Via systems already assembled from other sources (Like Walmart for $199) too, why bother with one where they try to sell you on a locked in monthly service, etc. instead of get one where you get the freedom to use it as you please. I think that most of the folks that are intereted in something like a Via based system are a little bit DIY, and so would prefer the $60 board and CPU to a system anyway.
Some folks on here are interested in Via based systems. You will see other threads talking about Via based boards that are available for around $60 or $70. Since you can get Via systems already assembled from other sources (Like Walmart for $199) too, why bother with one where they try to sell you on a locked in monthly service, etc. instead of get one where you get the freedom to use it as you please. I think that most of the folks that are intereted in something like a Via based system are a little bit DIY, and so would prefer the $60 board and CPU to a system anyway.
If we're going to compare mini-itx boards, the Intel D201GLY2 (~$65 and that's retail!), though it uses more power than Zonbu's, runs circles around the VIA performance-wise for the same low price. I've installed XP Home edition on a D201GLY2 machine and was surprised by its responsiveness.
As VanWaGuy mentioned, Everex has a desktop PC for $199 available at Newegg and Walmart that does not require subscription. It even comes with keyboard, mouse and speakers.
Remote online backups is the only legitimate reason for Zonbu to ask a monthly fee, the rest is all marketing fluff. Even then, Mozy, for example gives 2GB of backup for free. And there's always emailing data back to oneself thanks to Yahoo or Gmail's Gigs of storage...
I do appreciate Zonbu's size and low power req. I would be interested in purchasing one, entirely, not "renting" it, for the right price up front. That price would need to be considered by comparing it to Everex's. Hardware prices are falling, so I understand manufacturers trying to make money elsewhere, but sorry I'm not in the rental market.
As VanWaGuy mentioned, Everex has a desktop PC for $199 available at Newegg and Walmart that does not require subscription. It even comes with keyboard, mouse and speakers.
Remote online backups is the only legitimate reason for Zonbu to ask a monthly fee, the rest is all marketing fluff. Even then, Mozy, for example gives 2GB of backup for free. And there's always emailing data back to oneself thanks to Yahoo or Gmail's Gigs of storage...
I do appreciate Zonbu's size and low power req. I would be interested in purchasing one, entirely, not "renting" it, for the right price up front. That price would need to be considered by comparing it to Everex's. Hardware prices are falling, so I understand manufacturers trying to make money elsewhere, but sorry I'm not in the rental market.
Last edited by LAThierry on Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
no one talks about it because:
1. its proprietary, and most people here like to DIY a lot.
2. it cant really do much
It wont play games
It cant do video editing
It cant do video encoding/decoding
You can use it for an HTPC
All you really can do with it is surf the net, and check your email. Maybe play some music with it.
Now you make a product that uses ATX or ITX standards, can be used as an HTPC for HD content, or be used to play games AND be completely silent (possibly completely passive) with a small form factor. Then you would have a lot more interest.
People here would likely be more interested in getting a pico-itx board and building their own small completely silent/passive web surfing box.
1. its proprietary, and most people here like to DIY a lot.
2. it cant really do much
It wont play games
It cant do video editing
It cant do video encoding/decoding
You can use it for an HTPC
All you really can do with it is surf the net, and check your email. Maybe play some music with it.
Now you make a product that uses ATX or ITX standards, can be used as an HTPC for HD content, or be used to play games AND be completely silent (possibly completely passive) with a small form factor. Then you would have a lot more interest.
People here would likely be more interested in getting a pico-itx board and building their own small completely silent/passive web surfing box.
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Blacktales
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 6:58 am
Actually we talked about the zombu and other VIA--based alternatives in another thread before although the tinkering argument LAthierry mentionned is valid here at SPCR.
Thread URL : viewtopic.php?t=44955
If you really want a zombu you can actually buy it without the subscription and just use the offline OS or wipe it out and install whichever flavor of Linux you want. The guys at zombu and on their forum are actually really cool about that and there is a lot of information on installing other OS on the device.
This is of course for those people interested in a non-DIY approach. If you don't want to tinker, the zombu is actually quite good if compared to similar alternatives like the eBox computers that are similar in specs and price but do not come with storage solutions (Hardware).
In the end though, even if it makes a nice low-powered computer it won't do much except as a always-on internet access point / office apps and non-HD media player or used as a server or router. Sure it is somehow cheap for a silent computer but how long will you really use it before it is deemed as obsolete and tossed in a box to collect dust because of its lack of upgradability?
I actually considered purchasing a Zombu to be able to shut down my main computer which sucks 100w idle and is still not as silent as i would like it to be, but in the end i think it would be nothing more than a nice gadget, with a lifespan to match other gadgets. And i would probably not use it long enough to actually save money on my electricity bill. I am now inclined to consider building a D201GLY2 system yourself to be a better investment in the mid-long-term.
Thread URL : viewtopic.php?t=44955
If you really want a zombu you can actually buy it without the subscription and just use the offline OS or wipe it out and install whichever flavor of Linux you want. The guys at zombu and on their forum are actually really cool about that and there is a lot of information on installing other OS on the device.
This is of course for those people interested in a non-DIY approach. If you don't want to tinker, the zombu is actually quite good if compared to similar alternatives like the eBox computers that are similar in specs and price but do not come with storage solutions (Hardware).
In the end though, even if it makes a nice low-powered computer it won't do much except as a always-on internet access point / office apps and non-HD media player or used as a server or router. Sure it is somehow cheap for a silent computer but how long will you really use it before it is deemed as obsolete and tossed in a box to collect dust because of its lack of upgradability?
I actually considered purchasing a Zombu to be able to shut down my main computer which sucks 100w idle and is still not as silent as i would like it to be, but in the end i think it would be nothing more than a nice gadget, with a lifespan to match other gadgets. And i would probably not use it long enough to actually save money on my electricity bill. I am now inclined to consider building a D201GLY2 system yourself to be a better investment in the mid-long-term.
I will agree that subscription/rental service for a PC is a real turnoff, but as mentioned by Blacktales it is available without subscription (see his thread for more details) and the $300 is the price without subscription. Personally I would not pay for such a service myself.
As for the Walmart Everex, it is cheap but it's not silent and huge in comparison. Frankly for a matx form factor, I would expect a lot more capability like photo/video editing, gaming, etc. ECS' budget board comes with an A64 3200+ venice core which is a very competent performer, runs very cool, and costs under $70 so a similarly configured system can be had for the same price. For $40 more you could even move to dual-core, so for me the Everex isn't interesting.
As for the Linutop, I wasn't aware they are finally shipping. Although slightly more expensive, it is smaller and 5W (if this is AC draw) is even more impressive (although for 4W difference I would say it's pretty close). Most of my comments above would apply to the Linutop as well, although it seems to ship with a lot less apps, not even mail/office programs, I am wondering how good a performer it is. Anyone have an idea how the Geode LX700 w/ 256MB RAM compares to the Eden 1.2 w 512MB RAM?
As for tinkering, I'll agree most SPCRers enjoy that, myself included. Software-wise the system is not locked and installations of other versions of Linux is possible as mentioned in the other thread. Hardware-wise probably not too much to be done given it's tiny form factor plus it will void the warranty. However to have such a nice tiny silent package, I'd be willing to forgo some tinkering. Also maybe my unfamiliarity with Linux makes not having to deal with booting off CF issues, linux driver issues, etc. an attractive option.
I'll agree the DIY Pico ITX looks nice and I was also tempted to go for VIA's Artigo kit for around $300 plus RAM/CF on top. However this is a fanned system and with such a tiny form factor it's hard to imagine it being very quiet. Plus on top VIA's website mentions 13W power consumption which is higher than the ULV Eden setup.
As for use, clearly there is a lot that the Zonbu is not suitable for, however my thinking is that for most users the majority of their PC time is on light work which Zonbu should be very capable of.
As for the Walmart Everex, it is cheap but it's not silent and huge in comparison. Frankly for a matx form factor, I would expect a lot more capability like photo/video editing, gaming, etc. ECS' budget board comes with an A64 3200+ venice core which is a very competent performer, runs very cool, and costs under $70 so a similarly configured system can be had for the same price. For $40 more you could even move to dual-core, so for me the Everex isn't interesting.
As for the Linutop, I wasn't aware they are finally shipping. Although slightly more expensive, it is smaller and 5W (if this is AC draw) is even more impressive (although for 4W difference I would say it's pretty close). Most of my comments above would apply to the Linutop as well, although it seems to ship with a lot less apps, not even mail/office programs, I am wondering how good a performer it is. Anyone have an idea how the Geode LX700 w/ 256MB RAM compares to the Eden 1.2 w 512MB RAM?
As for tinkering, I'll agree most SPCRers enjoy that, myself included. Software-wise the system is not locked and installations of other versions of Linux is possible as mentioned in the other thread. Hardware-wise probably not too much to be done given it's tiny form factor plus it will void the warranty. However to have such a nice tiny silent package, I'd be willing to forgo some tinkering. Also maybe my unfamiliarity with Linux makes not having to deal with booting off CF issues, linux driver issues, etc. an attractive option.
I'll agree the DIY Pico ITX looks nice and I was also tempted to go for VIA's Artigo kit for around $300 plus RAM/CF on top. However this is a fanned system and with such a tiny form factor it's hard to imagine it being very quiet. Plus on top VIA's website mentions 13W power consumption which is higher than the ULV Eden setup.
As for use, clearly there is a lot that the Zonbu is not suitable for, however my thinking is that for most users the majority of their PC time is on light work which Zonbu should be very capable of.
So Blacktales you didn't actually buy the Zombu? I am really curious what changed your mind as your original reasons seem to be the same as mine. I actually just built a D201GLY2 system, and although you get more processing power it doesn't run fanless and idles over 30W. It's really a very budget board, and I feel the main thing going for it is it's small size at such a low cost. But compared to some of my old systems, an AOpen Cube with XPM chip, or a Pundit barebone with a Sempron, both only slightly larger, I am finding the D201GLY2 really not offering much in terms of performance, power consumption, or quietness.Blacktales wrote:I actually considered purchasing a Zombu to be able to shut down my main computer which sucks 100w idle and is still not as silent as i would like it to be, but in the end i think it would be nothing more than a nice gadget, with a lifespan to match other gadgets. And i would probably not use it long enough to actually save money on my electricity bill. I am now inclined to consider building a D201GLY2 system yourself to be a better investment in the mid-long-term.
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Blacktales
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 6:58 am
I am still considering whether or not i should be buying or building a low-power system (though it would probably be done after a new build for my main computer) but the major reason i still didn't actually purchase a Zonbu is : I don't really need it.So Blacktales you didn't actually buy the Zombu? I am really curious what changed your mind as your original reasons seem to be the same as mine.
I mean it would be fun to get it but after the novelty wears off, i would probably revert back to using my main build most of the time. For non-savvy computer users like (most) elderly people, the zonbu could be a cheap way to get a silent and low-power computer for limited usage like web browsing and occasional office applications.
But after reviewing what i actually spend my time on my computer, i realize i need more power than a VIA system can provide, so i would probably end up booting my main system most of the time in addition to the zonbu. So in the end i doubt the investment would actually save money in the long term. I mean, changing all my light bulbs from incandescent to CFL was probably better in terms of money savings than using a zonbu and cutting my main computer uptime by half.
And as i already stated, who knows how long the zonbu will be able to support newer distributions before it is simply put aside in a cardboard box. And everything being soldered inside, it's not like i will be able to reuse components in other projects. Having only one LAN connector even prevents using it as a router later, contrary to some eBox models.
So instead of buying a limited computer to hypothetically save money on utilities bills and end up not using it or have two computers on instead of one (which is quite NOT the point), i guess carefully selecting the components of my next main build (reports on 45nm chips power usage seem really encouraging) will be more justifiable, even if it means wasting a few more watts, provided i get enough punch from it in the end.
As for the D201GLY2, i haven't read enough material on it to be able to judge whether or not it would be more suitable to my needs.
In the end I think there are other and cheaper ways to save 50-70 watts in my house before actually considering buying a low-power computer which would end up being used only as a redundant and mostly under-utilized web terminal.
I didn't realize that there are now so many options on these fanless tiny form factor prebuilt linux boxes for under $300. Following scdr's links in the other thread:
DecTop (AMD's PIC) for $99
Geode GX500, 128MB RAM, 10GB HDD, No OS
Fit-PC for $295
Geode LX800, 256MB RAM, 40GB 2.5" HDD, Dual NICs, Gentoo preloaded
Koolu for CAD$299
Geode LX800, 512MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Ubuntu?
Comparatively the Linutop doesn't seem such a good value
Linutop for 280Euro (approx $400+)
Geode LX700, 256MB RAM, 1GB USB, Ubuntu?
Assuming the Geodes are powerful and responsive enough for light PC use, these are better value than the Zonbu. Assuming they can boot from USB the system can be made silent and the cost of a 2+GB stick is quite low. The 2.5" HDD can also be moved to an external USB enclosure for backups.
Further per this wiki the 10GB HDD in the PIC is the Seagate ST310014ACE which is actually a slim 3.5" 5400rpm drive with low thermal/noise characteristics. Two thumbs up from some SPCRers here and here.
Anyone have any hands-on experiences with any of these boxes?
DecTop (AMD's PIC) for $99
Geode GX500, 128MB RAM, 10GB HDD, No OS
Fit-PC for $295
Geode LX800, 256MB RAM, 40GB 2.5" HDD, Dual NICs, Gentoo preloaded
Koolu for CAD$299
Geode LX800, 512MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Ubuntu?
Comparatively the Linutop doesn't seem such a good value
Linutop for 280Euro (approx $400+)
Geode LX700, 256MB RAM, 1GB USB, Ubuntu?
Assuming the Geodes are powerful and responsive enough for light PC use, these are better value than the Zonbu. Assuming they can boot from USB the system can be made silent and the cost of a 2+GB stick is quite low. The 2.5" HDD can also be moved to an external USB enclosure for backups.
Further per this wiki the 10GB HDD in the PIC is the Seagate ST310014ACE which is actually a slim 3.5" 5400rpm drive with low thermal/noise characteristics. Two thumbs up from some SPCRers here and here.
Anyone have any hands-on experiences with any of these boxes?
If it had a gigabit controller, it could make a decent file server. But it doesn't. The high price could be somewhat worth it if it was incredibly stable and works well with a variety of Linux variants. Sorry but that's all I see most of these VIA boards as... storage solutions. If you use it yourself as a PC you'll get tired of the performance quickly and it'll never get used again... until you turn it into a file server. If you set it up for a friend they'll call in a few weeks and ask where MS Word is. Can't win.
Cut the price to sub $100 and we've got something.
-Evan
Cut the price to sub $100 and we've got something.
-Evan
Last edited by QuaiBoy on Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:46 am, edited 3 times in total.