Anyone know anything about Thermaltakes's new BigWater 120mm WC kit?
http://www.thermaltake.com/watercooling ... -w0005.htm
sPaNk
Thermaltake BigWater 120mm Watercooling Kit
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sPaNkThEmOnKeY
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- Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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TheDarkHacker
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:09 am
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Quotes from the product page:
The figures above are likely VERY optimistic...
Code: Select all
Fan Speed 1300~2400RPM
Fan Noise 17dBA~21dBA
Fan Max. Air Flow 38.6CFM~93.7CFM
Um...Firefox users when you click that link does it open another window that prompts you to insert a CD into your CD-ROM drive? Screenshot below, title bar is supposed to be blue but I wanted to keep the file small so...
Nothing happens anyway, CANCEL and CONTINUE just close it while TRY AGAIN refreshes the popup.
It looks alright, I won't believe the noise ratings though.
Nothing happens anyway, CANCEL and CONTINUE just close it while TRY AGAIN refreshes the popup.
It looks alright, I won't believe the noise ratings though.
Not sure why most people seem to dislike or bash the BigWater system. I’ve had mine for 6 months now and love it. It only cost me $120 delivered and included everything I needed. I also added the VGA Waterblock from Thermaltake into the system for another $30.
I have the Intel P4 640 Prescott P4 3.2 Ghz and an X850 XT. With stock coolers at full load (not overclocked) CPU temps would reach 67-68c. VPU temps with stock fan setting would reach 90c. YES I said 90c, and YES the manufacturer designed it that way. I purchased a Swiftech MCX775-V Heatsink, used an 80mm high speed fan with ported cold air. I also reprogrammed the X850 XT fan settings. I overclocked the CPU from 3.2 to 3.6. CPU temps under load hit 64c. VPU temps hit 66c. DAMN IT WAS LOUD! Mainly from the dust-buster mounted on the X850 XT.
Installed the Thermaltake BigWater: My case only had a 92mm rear opening, so I cut it out to 120mm tall and about 100mm wide. I hung the radiator off the back and used the included Thermaltake 120mm Fan run off my T-Balancer from mCubed. I took a piece of crap 120mm Vantec Stealth fan, cut out the fan and used its outer shell as a 1” shroud (shroud = 1.5c temperature decrease in CPU & VPU). The fan pulls air out of the case, through the radiator, through the shroud, then through the fan.
I overclocked CPU from 3.2 to 3.92 and the GPU from 520Mhz to 572Mhz. While running Battlefield 2 (the largest combined CPU and VPU load I’ve experienced) with the fan at 80% I can maintain temps of 51c on both the CPU & VPU for hours and hours. With the fan at 100% I can maintain 49c on both. At idle, the fan is at 48% with temps in the mid 30’s on both CPU and VPU. My case temps stay 28-30c even under a long full load.
Using a T-Balancer with Attenuators, the stock Thermaltake fan at 48% is quiet. At 80% while gaming the fan is loud but un-noticeable. At 100% while gaming it’s loud and noticeable but not horrible. I prefer 80%. After months of light use (System only used 2-4 hours a day) this fan has started making clicking noise at any speed. I have a Panaflo M1A on order as I type this. I tried MANY fans on this radiator. I recommend fans with at least 1400rpm or higher. On most fans, RPMs below 1250 was not enough air and the water tubes felt very warm to the touch. I did run fans at 900 and 1000 rpm under full load, temps stayed under 60c but the water tubes felt very hot to the touch. A 2000 rpm capable fan that you can adjust voltage on is what I recommend.
The water pump is Velcro’d to the bottom of my case and is completely inaudible. I chose not to use the included reservoir as it seemed flimsy and not necessary. The CPU and VPU waterblocks look VERY cool; especially with UV liquid (included) and UV lights. After 6 months of light use I did have to replace a 1/2” of liquid in the water pump. Was no big deal. I think I burned it up when I was trying to run the fan at 900 & 1000 rmp at full load. I’ve never had a leak or any other problems at all. I highly recommend this water system, but only to those people who are PC hardware friendly. If you know you’re stricken with PC hardware retardation then don’t buy it!
Other water systems can probably beat 49c & 51c all day long. But I only spent $150, I silenced my system (6 fans to 3 undervolted fans), I overclocked 18%, and am very happy. 49c to 51c is more then cool enough.
If you built or own an internal water system for under $150 that can beat my Intel Prescott CPU & X800+ VPU temps with 18% overclocking, PLEASE tell me all about it. Otherwise STOP BASHING BIGWATER.
Note: Every manufactured product can have defects; water in you PC can be dangerous. I do not guarantee anything as I am just a consumer like you. Proper installation is very important.
Another Note: My Asus Motherbaord uses a passive northbridge heatsink that was designed to get some air flow from the CPU fan. Well, with watercooling, there is no CPU fan. You should either replace it with an active heatsink or do what I did; Add a quiet fan to the side of the case that will blow onto the Video Card RAMsinks and the Northbridge. They do not need a lot of airflow, but they do need some. Like an undervolted 92mm Nexus.
I have the Intel P4 640 Prescott P4 3.2 Ghz and an X850 XT. With stock coolers at full load (not overclocked) CPU temps would reach 67-68c. VPU temps with stock fan setting would reach 90c. YES I said 90c, and YES the manufacturer designed it that way. I purchased a Swiftech MCX775-V Heatsink, used an 80mm high speed fan with ported cold air. I also reprogrammed the X850 XT fan settings. I overclocked the CPU from 3.2 to 3.6. CPU temps under load hit 64c. VPU temps hit 66c. DAMN IT WAS LOUD! Mainly from the dust-buster mounted on the X850 XT.
Installed the Thermaltake BigWater: My case only had a 92mm rear opening, so I cut it out to 120mm tall and about 100mm wide. I hung the radiator off the back and used the included Thermaltake 120mm Fan run off my T-Balancer from mCubed. I took a piece of crap 120mm Vantec Stealth fan, cut out the fan and used its outer shell as a 1” shroud (shroud = 1.5c temperature decrease in CPU & VPU). The fan pulls air out of the case, through the radiator, through the shroud, then through the fan.
I overclocked CPU from 3.2 to 3.92 and the GPU from 520Mhz to 572Mhz. While running Battlefield 2 (the largest combined CPU and VPU load I’ve experienced) with the fan at 80% I can maintain temps of 51c on both the CPU & VPU for hours and hours. With the fan at 100% I can maintain 49c on both. At idle, the fan is at 48% with temps in the mid 30’s on both CPU and VPU. My case temps stay 28-30c even under a long full load.
Using a T-Balancer with Attenuators, the stock Thermaltake fan at 48% is quiet. At 80% while gaming the fan is loud but un-noticeable. At 100% while gaming it’s loud and noticeable but not horrible. I prefer 80%. After months of light use (System only used 2-4 hours a day) this fan has started making clicking noise at any speed. I have a Panaflo M1A on order as I type this. I tried MANY fans on this radiator. I recommend fans with at least 1400rpm or higher. On most fans, RPMs below 1250 was not enough air and the water tubes felt very warm to the touch. I did run fans at 900 and 1000 rpm under full load, temps stayed under 60c but the water tubes felt very hot to the touch. A 2000 rpm capable fan that you can adjust voltage on is what I recommend.
The water pump is Velcro’d to the bottom of my case and is completely inaudible. I chose not to use the included reservoir as it seemed flimsy and not necessary. The CPU and VPU waterblocks look VERY cool; especially with UV liquid (included) and UV lights. After 6 months of light use I did have to replace a 1/2” of liquid in the water pump. Was no big deal. I think I burned it up when I was trying to run the fan at 900 & 1000 rmp at full load. I’ve never had a leak or any other problems at all. I highly recommend this water system, but only to those people who are PC hardware friendly. If you know you’re stricken with PC hardware retardation then don’t buy it!
Other water systems can probably beat 49c & 51c all day long. But I only spent $150, I silenced my system (6 fans to 3 undervolted fans), I overclocked 18%, and am very happy. 49c to 51c is more then cool enough.
If you built or own an internal water system for under $150 that can beat my Intel Prescott CPU & X800+ VPU temps with 18% overclocking, PLEASE tell me all about it. Otherwise STOP BASHING BIGWATER.
Note: Every manufactured product can have defects; water in you PC can be dangerous. I do not guarantee anything as I am just a consumer like you. Proper installation is very important.
Another Note: My Asus Motherbaord uses a passive northbridge heatsink that was designed to get some air flow from the CPU fan. Well, with watercooling, there is no CPU fan. You should either replace it with an active heatsink or do what I did; Add a quiet fan to the side of the case that will blow onto the Video Card RAMsinks and the Northbridge. They do not need a lot of airflow, but they do need some. Like an undervolted 92mm Nexus.
Let me tell you why people bash bigwater: first of all, the fan isn't loud, but its no 17 db, makes an anoying clicking sound or something. But most important, its build-quality is crap. I have it, I'm one of the lucky ones, where the set works properly. In a poll on a norwegian hw-site, 200 owners where asked how they set perfromed, a whopping 50% has had trouble with the set. The main troubles are: broken pump, which is annoying, but no disaster (23%), and weak plexi in the cpu-block, causing leaks (17%), which is a disaster. I own the set, I would still advise you to stay away.
On the upside, it's cheap, and cools enough (with a flow rate of 120 l/h, hah to all you "more flow"-guys
)
AtW
On the upside, it's cheap, and cools enough (with a flow rate of 120 l/h, hah to all you "more flow"-guys
)AtW
Update on my BIGWATER system.
First make sure to read my post above to see what I had...
Since I have an ASUS motherboard with a passive chipset heatsink, and a water cooled CPU that does not blow air onto the chipset I felt it necessary to use a 92mm fan in my side window to keep the chipset temps down. It also helps cool my video RAMsinks. I tried MANY side fans with my T-Balancer & Atinuator and could not find one quiet enough, so I wanted to remove the window fan completely. Since I already have a water system, I decided to add a chipset water block instead of an active heatsink.
Removing the window fan off of the video RAMsinks did not make any change in video ram OC performance.
Thermaltake does not make a chipset water block for their BigWater system and I wanted one that matched the Thermaltake CPU block (acrylic top) that would use the 1/4" BigWater tubes. So I nervously installed the CoolerMaster NB-AQUA. It does its job and keeps the NB cool. I did however have a problem with the mounting system. I do not have chipset mount holes; I have the 4 hoops or hooks. A week after installation while the PC was idling and I was away, one of the hooks pulled out of the motherboard and landed on the video card shorting a couple of contacts. The water block dangled from the other hook completely separated from the chipset for many hours. When I got back, there was no video, the power button did not work but the PC was still on. I flipped the PSU off and prayed for no damage. I reinstalled it on the other remaining adjacent hooks, this time with the mount screws out a couple of turns and everything works perfectly! Benchmarked it again to make sure nothing was damaged and got the same wonderful scores. I got lucky.
My BigWater system uses the stock water pump, radiator, fan, and tubing. I added the GPU block and mounted the radiator on the back with the fan pulling air out of the case. I added the chipset block and replaced the stock fan with a Panaflo M1. My CPU & GPU temps raised 3-5c, the tubes felt hot, and the fan was running at max speed. The Panaflo moved a lot of air, but was ridiculously loud at any speed, especially full speed. I had to do something, I HATE LOUD COMPUTERS!
I highly considered building an external radiator box with a heater core but instead I ordered a 2nd Thermaltake BigWater Radiator and 3 Yate Loon Orange 120mm fans. I cut holes in the top of the PC, mounted the new radiator externally on top with the fan inside the pc blowing out. Each Radiator got an orange fan, and the 3rd orange fan was mounted in the front of the case blowing in. I AM ELATED! Its CPU/GPU temps are back down to 49-51c (at full load) and my PC has never been quieter. Even with all 3 fans at full speed its VERY quiet! Yea Me! Oh and the window fan is gone, replaced with new Plexi window. The Line-Up =
Pump---CPU---Radiator1---NB---GPU---Radiator2---Pump
Another note about the CoolerMaster chipset water block, installing the tubes was pain, had to heat and stretch the tube first. I stretched one too much and it leaked during pre-test. To remove installed tubes, you have to cut them off! Its keeps it cool, but IMO it’s a piece of crap. Hopefully a better product will come along someday soon. Tt said they have no plans to make one. If I find a good one, I will most likely use Artic Silver Adhesive to permanently mount it as I don’t trust those hooks anymore.
First make sure to read my post above to see what I had...
Since I have an ASUS motherboard with a passive chipset heatsink, and a water cooled CPU that does not blow air onto the chipset I felt it necessary to use a 92mm fan in my side window to keep the chipset temps down. It also helps cool my video RAMsinks. I tried MANY side fans with my T-Balancer & Atinuator and could not find one quiet enough, so I wanted to remove the window fan completely. Since I already have a water system, I decided to add a chipset water block instead of an active heatsink.
Removing the window fan off of the video RAMsinks did not make any change in video ram OC performance.
Thermaltake does not make a chipset water block for their BigWater system and I wanted one that matched the Thermaltake CPU block (acrylic top) that would use the 1/4" BigWater tubes. So I nervously installed the CoolerMaster NB-AQUA. It does its job and keeps the NB cool. I did however have a problem with the mounting system. I do not have chipset mount holes; I have the 4 hoops or hooks. A week after installation while the PC was idling and I was away, one of the hooks pulled out of the motherboard and landed on the video card shorting a couple of contacts. The water block dangled from the other hook completely separated from the chipset for many hours. When I got back, there was no video, the power button did not work but the PC was still on. I flipped the PSU off and prayed for no damage. I reinstalled it on the other remaining adjacent hooks, this time with the mount screws out a couple of turns and everything works perfectly! Benchmarked it again to make sure nothing was damaged and got the same wonderful scores. I got lucky.
My BigWater system uses the stock water pump, radiator, fan, and tubing. I added the GPU block and mounted the radiator on the back with the fan pulling air out of the case. I added the chipset block and replaced the stock fan with a Panaflo M1. My CPU & GPU temps raised 3-5c, the tubes felt hot, and the fan was running at max speed. The Panaflo moved a lot of air, but was ridiculously loud at any speed, especially full speed. I had to do something, I HATE LOUD COMPUTERS!
I highly considered building an external radiator box with a heater core but instead I ordered a 2nd Thermaltake BigWater Radiator and 3 Yate Loon Orange 120mm fans. I cut holes in the top of the PC, mounted the new radiator externally on top with the fan inside the pc blowing out. Each Radiator got an orange fan, and the 3rd orange fan was mounted in the front of the case blowing in. I AM ELATED! Its CPU/GPU temps are back down to 49-51c (at full load) and my PC has never been quieter. Even with all 3 fans at full speed its VERY quiet! Yea Me! Oh and the window fan is gone, replaced with new Plexi window. The Line-Up =
Pump---CPU---Radiator1---NB---GPU---Radiator2---Pump
Another note about the CoolerMaster chipset water block, installing the tubes was pain, had to heat and stretch the tube first. I stretched one too much and it leaked during pre-test. To remove installed tubes, you have to cut them off! Its keeps it cool, but IMO it’s a piece of crap. Hopefully a better product will come along someday soon. Tt said they have no plans to make one. If I find a good one, I will most likely use Artic Silver Adhesive to permanently mount it as I don’t trust those hooks anymore.
Doesn't installing fans to a watercooling system defeat the purpose of silent watercooling? Also, the Bigwater kit doesn't seem silent judging by its design and the fact that its made by thermaltake. why don't you hook up all the hot stuff to cheap $15 waterblocks and just get a real radiator, a 120.2 one? Also, is the pump loud? My muffled pump cannot be picked up by most sound equipment from one meter because it is so silent. can your thermaltake pump compare?
You can only hear the "unmuffled" Bigwater pump if you literally put your ear on it.cotdt wrote:Doesn't installing fans to a watercooling system defeat the purpose of silent watercooling? Also, the Bigwater kit doesn't seem silent judging by its design and the fact that its made by thermaltake. why don't you hook up all the hot stuff to cheap $15 waterblocks and just get a real radiator, a 120.2 one? Also, is the pump loud? My muffled pump cannot be picked up by most sound equipment from one meter because it is so silent. can your thermaltake pump compare?
The TT Bigwater system has a bunch of downsides to it. But for a casual user (read: not overclocker nut) the Bigwater's a great little kit. Very quiet if you replace that horrible (noisy) radiator fan. Leak problems happen, as it did for me, as it did to many people out there with "custom" water cooling systems.
The Bigwater kit comes with an acrylic top waterblock which cracked when I tightened one of the nozzles ,with pliers. Never ever never use pliers to tighten those nozzles, use your hands.
If anyone asks me if i'd buy the TT kit again, I'd say NO. But if someone asked me if I'd recomend it to a newbie... I'd say YES.
Ahhh so my low expectations for the thermaltake watercooler has been confirmed. It is indeed horrible if it leaks. Simple unacceptable. Thermaltake shouldn't sell things that can ruin computers and give bad rep to watercooling. Me and two of my friends each built our own watercooling systems four years back using Danger Den and Swiftech parts, and we've never ran into any problems. They've survived through multiple upgrades and I expect them to continue serving us silence and performance, as well as portability (can your zalman reserator say that!?). Interesting is that in the procooling poll, a lot of people reported their watercoolers leaking, I think it was about 30%. Well they must have made very shabby coolers because I simply could not imagine how a well-built watercooling system can have problems at all.
So I think cheap kits in general like this Thermalsteal one should be avoided. For only slightly more, one can get a Danger Den 120.2 kit with a CSP-MAG pump and just replace the fans with two 5V Nexus. That configuration is very quiet and easy to set up, and internal as well. Most kits are external which makes it a pain to carry the computer around.
So I think cheap kits in general like this Thermalsteal one should be avoided. For only slightly more, one can get a Danger Den 120.2 kit with a CSP-MAG pump and just replace the fans with two 5V Nexus. That configuration is very quiet and easy to set up, and internal as well. Most kits are external which makes it a pain to carry the computer around.
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russsss
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My first post here and I felt I had to backup the comments made by @mdearth (and @alex7575) as a supporter of the Bigwater.
I've had two TT waterkits now, the original Aquarius which lives in my HTPC (Athlon 64 2800+, undervolted to 1.3v) and is still keeping that cool and very quiet, and for 9 months a BigWater in my Games machine (currently an Athlon X2 4400+ running at 2.5GHz). With both systems I've had no leaks, have been happy with the reliability and get some pretty good overclocks at silence - I have two 120mm fans (1 push, 1 pull) on the internally mounted radiator running silent with no problems even at 2.5GHz. The Bigwater cost me £70 delivered and Swiftech or DD mid-level setups are £150-£200 - so for value for money I think it scores well - certainly if you're looking to compare it with air cooled systems it performs just as well for a lot less noise, it just can't keep up with mega-water/TEC systems costing significantly more.
I can see that diss'ing the Bigwater is popular, but it gets my vote and I would recommend it and I'm not a newbie!
==============================================
System Specs: Antec P160 Case
MSI Neo 2 Platinum, Athlon X2 4400+ @ 2.5GHz (250x10) @ 1.32v
2x512MB Kingston HyperX 3500 LL (2-3-2-6) DDR RAM
HIS Excalibur X800XT IceQII VIVO
Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 10 300GB SATA
Antec Truepower 550 (fan modded for silence)
Thermaltake Bigwater (and proud of it!)
I've had two TT waterkits now, the original Aquarius which lives in my HTPC (Athlon 64 2800+, undervolted to 1.3v) and is still keeping that cool and very quiet, and for 9 months a BigWater in my Games machine (currently an Athlon X2 4400+ running at 2.5GHz). With both systems I've had no leaks, have been happy with the reliability and get some pretty good overclocks at silence - I have two 120mm fans (1 push, 1 pull) on the internally mounted radiator running silent with no problems even at 2.5GHz. The Bigwater cost me £70 delivered and Swiftech or DD mid-level setups are £150-£200 - so for value for money I think it scores well - certainly if you're looking to compare it with air cooled systems it performs just as well for a lot less noise, it just can't keep up with mega-water/TEC systems costing significantly more.
I can see that diss'ing the Bigwater is popular, but it gets my vote and I would recommend it and I'm not a newbie!
==============================================
System Specs: Antec P160 Case
MSI Neo 2 Platinum, Athlon X2 4400+ @ 2.5GHz (250x10) @ 1.32v
2x512MB Kingston HyperX 3500 LL (2-3-2-6) DDR RAM
HIS Excalibur X800XT IceQII VIVO
Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 10 300GB SATA
Antec Truepower 550 (fan modded for silence)
Thermaltake Bigwater (and proud of it!)