watercooling set up - price

xxkrnxstylezxx · Post by **xxkrnxstylezxx** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:24 pm

Hi, I'm looking to build a quiet PC and I've been looking at quiet cases/fans, etc. And now i'm wondering if it would be quieter to go the watercooling direction.

Basically, I need a case (I can separately add seasonic PSU and Globe 120mm fans), with water cooling system for my AMD 64 3000+ 939pin, and 6800NU. Would it be possible to get this for under $190?

Would this be quieter than a Zalman 7000B-cu, Arctic cooling VGA silencer NV5, 2 x 120mm globe fans?

I really don't know much about watercooling, but I was wondering if I could afford it compared to the other things...

Thank you

DryFire · Post by **DryFire** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 pm

Here's a setup I'm looking to build:

MCW-6002 64 $40-42 @ svc.com
ZALMAN ZM-GWB1 - $20 @svc.com (comes with ramsinks)

Maxijet 900 -$20 can be found at your local pet store.

Masterkleer 7/16" ID tubing from Mcmaster $ .36 a foot (Pg 82)

So far at 83.60 + shipping assuming you get 10' of tubing.

You still need:
-A radiator/heatercore (depends on how much room you have in your case)
-A shroud (can be made out of carboard or tupperware or you can buy one)
-A tee tube fitting ($1 max) and something to cover the end of the T line or you can buy/make a resivoir.
-Some hose clamps.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:19 pm

How big can the case be?
How often will you move the PC?
Is that A64 a Winchester?
What drives will you use?

xxkrnxstylezxx · Post by **xxkrnxstylezxx** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:17 pm

well actually, I was thinking....Would this be much quieter than the other things I chose?

I was thinking about getting the Silverstone TJ06, and just putting on those fans. If I were to go with the $190 watercooling set up, my case would have to be under $60.

(I need it to be $300 for case/psu/fans/coolers)

hmm...btw

Case, not sure yet
PC will probably never move
AMD 64 939pin
Only 1 Seagate PATA 160gb

How is the Koolance case w/ resevoir? Is it loud with the three fans? It might be able to actually fit my budget...

http://xoxide.com/koolance650bu.html

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:22 pm

I would skip the Koolance gear. Those with the 80mm fans are louder than SPCR likes. Haven't heard anything about the 120mm versions, but I suspect DIY watercooling would cool better for the money.

Your system won't need to dump an incredible amount of heat, especially if your CPU has a Winchester core. You'd probably be okay with the Zalman and NV Silencer, though you'll want to undervolt both.

A decent WC system would cool better for a given noise level than the above. OTOH, you'll get to the point where the HD or PSU are the loudest components. In that position, I'd rather have a few extra dollars to play with than a WC rig and an empty wallet.

If you can DIY, I'd suggest something like this:
- Good case with 120mm exhaust. See the rec'd section
- XP120 ducted to Nexus or Globe case exhaust
- NV Silencer
- Super Silencer with fan swap
- Suitable fan controller

Only the most critical person would find that too loud, and its cooling should rival near-silent WC.

DryFire · Post by **DryFire** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:56 am

I'd have to agree with hammer. I well ducted air system should be about the same noise level as a watercooling system when you adress HD and psu noise unless you're going with a 2.5" drive and a very quiet psu.

xxkrnxstylezxx · Post by **xxkrnxstylezxx** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:55 pm

thanks for the help

I guess I need the Zalman Reserator for completely quiet system. But I cant afford it.

I shall go air

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:47 pm

xxkrnxstylezxx wrote:(I need it to be $300 for case/psu/fans/coolers)

Getting back to give this a real answer. I'd go with something like the following:

Swiftech MCW6000 - The best deal in a block right now. Near the top in performance AND near the bottom in price.

Laing DDC - There are far cheaper pumps, but I don't know how to get equal quietness and reliability for less. A bad block or rad might cost you a couple degrees; a poor pump could cost the system. Don't skimp.

Black Ice Pro 2 - With good frontal area and a thin core, this should be the default rad for SPCR. DIY types can save $25 with a heater core but should not reduce frontal area too much.

I'd go with a tee fitting (2, actually), tubing, and clamps from McMaster-Carr. But I'm cheap. The new molded bay res from Swiftech, Danger Den, et al. looks good and is under $20.

(This looks A LOT like Swiftech's kits, but they don't offer a big rad AFAIK. Probably worth looking into.)

Add shipping, and you're over $200 without fans, case, or psu. Such a system will cool well at near-silent levels, probably better than the air setup I proposed earlier. But I'd bet the air is as quiet in 99% of the real-world PCs out there.

bobkoure · Post by **bobkoure** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:51 pm

HammerSandwich wrote:But I'd bet the air is as quiet in 99% of the real-world PCs out there.

The difference is how well you can cool a heavy load - as in 100% for a half hour or more. If you're folding or encoding mpegs or some such, you'll be happier with water. Also, water's the way to go if you're overclocking (oc/ing usually requires that you boost processor voltage, and doing this and then increasing processor frequency can increase heat output a lot more than you'd expect from the simple voltage increase. It's not at all like increasing voltage to a resistor).
On the other hand, you can underclock, reduce processor voltage, and get very low sound levels with air cooling.
So far (and AFAIK), the Athalon XP-M "mobile" chips have been best for over/under-clocking (they're designed to be able to do this to save battery in laptops). Go have a look at the processor forum at http://forums.pcper.com/ (overclocking forum there's a good place to check as well - even if you intend to underclock)

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:52 pm

bobkoure wrote:The difference is how well you can cool a heavy load - as in 100% for a half hour or more. If you're folding or encoding mpegs or some such, you'll be happier with water.

Absolutely true for massive heat loads (especially if you WC the GPU too), and I certainly prefer water to my previous Zalman 7000. OTOH, that setup was not ducted, and I wonder how much cooler & quieter it would have run under load if the ~90W of CPU heat weren't dumped into the case.

Could an XP-120 ducted to a Nexus 120 exhaust cool your system sufficiently, Bob? Would it be any louder than what you have now? If so, how much ambient noise would be required to obscure the difference?

I'm a fan of WC and don't wish to come across as too negative, but I do believe that well-executed air can work for the majority and cost a lot less. I also see a lot of half-assed WC setups that surrender much of their potential advantage. Anyone who puts in the effort and money will get good results with either technique. Bluefront's work with air and Edward Ng's with water demonstrate this.

bobkoure · Post by **bobkoure** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:38 pm

HammerSandwich wrote:
bobkoure wrote:Could an XP-120 ducted to a Nexus 120 exhaust cool your system sufficiently, Bob?
As in "support the same overclock and run 100% overnight without blue-screening"? Maybe - although I'd think you'd need more pressure/airflow than a nexus provides

Would it be any louder than what you have now? If so, how much ambient noise would be required to obscure the difference?

I'd be very surprised if it was quieter. Beats me what the difference might be. I can still hear my system, though - late at night.

I, too, think that well-executed air can work very well, but at some point, cooling with water is actually easier. You've got a nice big radiator and don't have to pull air through it very fast. Because resistance goes up with speed, so long as you have sealed the back side of the radiator to your fan with a shroud, you should get somewhat-similar airflow through all the passageways - and the heat in the radiator is well distributed. And... you can put this radiator pretty much wherever it makes best sense cooling-wise