Zalman officially rejects Anti-freeze. :(

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:49 pm

I just called the tech people of Zalman. Normally, in months/years past, every time they gave me advice or info it was accurate. If this is, then well, there you go...

I asked if there should be some sort of additive used in their Reserator. The tech was very happy that I had one and asked me to tell him what I think of it after I get it working. Very pleasant people there. However, he didnt like the idea of me adding anti-freeze. He said it could damage the parts of the product, not the metal. I wonder if this is so. never know. People swap out motors on account of noise and such. Shrugs? Could be just a way of saying we dont support anything we dont make. However, he did say I should use distilled water and said that if necessary there are for pc use only mixtures that are safe.

I duno. I thought it would be cool to ask them on phone directly. Well, back to the asking 300330 questions on spcr.

Post by **Rusty075** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:50 pm

And what are most "pc only mixturers"? Diluted antifreeze.

This is actually an improvement for Zalman...their first revisions of the Reserator owner manual specifically said not to put anything in except DI. Probably after the first 500 RMA's corroded pumps and blocks they revised that statement to say that anticorrosives may be a good idea.

To put it simply, Zalman is full of crap on this issue, and I would defer to other more knowledgable sources of information for what to add to the water in the loop. (do a search for "admixtures" at procooling's forums for a serious education on the subject)

m0002a · Post by **m0002a** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:06 pm

Some car manufacturers like Toyota specify a special type of anti-freeze becasue they say regular anti-freeze can cause Toyota water pumps to wear out prematurely.

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:29 pm

I am one of those people that bought the very first Reserators. It went out after 3 months. Replaced. 3 months later, same thing. Yah, do a search for my name and 'reserator' in this area and you'll find a few hits -.-;; *groans*

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:40 pm

airspirit's red mix

Lapinou · Post by **Lapinou** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:54 am

I followed Zalman's advice for 6 months and had no additives in my system, just distilled water.

Result: pump replaced after rattling (not really related)

Lots of corrosion in spots where the galvanising layer has flaked off the interior of the resevoir (basically large white nodules visible on the wall of the reserator) plus associated corrosive mess in the CPU waterblock (which I can't clean because I can't unscrew the damn thing to get inside!).

Now I run with anti-corrosion, it is clear that Zalman's product quality is very very far away from their claims. However the resulting damage from this bad advice has added 5 degrees to my load temperture. great.

scotty6435 · Post by **scotty6435** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:58 pm

Distilled water and zerex.

Anti-freeze is only any use if you're dealing with sub-zero temperatures. The glycol breaks down within a couple of months and can corrode types of plastics. It offers no advantage for temps, in fact it is actually worse compared to pure water. Zerex, waterwetter or an equivalent will all stop bacterial growth and reduce surface tension (another thing anti-freeze can't do).

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:56 pm

Hey, this is what I believe as well. I added more than a few cap fulls, i just kinda shook the bottle in there for a little bit. I figure that being I have a large amount of water in the tank, and no glycol, I couldnt go wrong adding more than the suggested amount of water wetter. I am trying to avoid using anything that can hurt thte plastics. I tend to not like maintenence. I fear that these tubes will never come off again anyways

Katharsis · Post by **Katharsis** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:07 am

from what i've read zerex racing super coolant or a similar "racing coolant" will be better than normal antifreeze. unless your water loop actually gets to below freezing temps. also there have been problems with water wetter. in large amounts it eats away at acrylic reservoirs, foams up and cloudies up hoses. personally i'd go with 4oz of zerex in a gallon of distilled water and you may hafta do a little research on bacteria reducing agents, i live in a dry desert environment so the zerex does just fine for me. also you need to change your water once a year anyways due to the chemicals breaking down, so hopefully your hoses aren't all on too tight.

i wish i could find this one article again, the guy tests all sorts of different additives, compares their chemical properties, ph balance, the whole nine yards.

bobkoure · Post by **bobkoure** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:08 pm

scotty6435 wrote:... glycol breaks down within a couple of months

And the last time you replaced the coolant in your car because the glycol had broken down was...? Not that I'm suggesting using any of the glycols for above 0C PC cooling...
Zerex racing coolant is spec'ed at a 10% mixture by Valvoline (the manufacturer) - 4oz/gal is 3%, so you may not be getting the corrosion protection you expect.

Elixer · Post by **Elixer** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:35 pm

I wonder if maybe marine antifreeze might work well. Normal antifreeze is mostly ethylene glycol, but marine is propylene glycol. And no, neither of these will break down very quickly (as seen by the fact that cars can run for years on the same antifreeze.). Propylene glycol is considered very safe and can be found in medicines, food coloring, and many other places.

eander315 · Post by **eander315** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:25 am

I'm not trying to be rude, but just about everything in Scotty6435's post is incorrect. Antifreeze lowers the freezing point and raises the boiling point of water. It also contains anti-corrosives and lubricants, and lowers the surface tension of water, though not as much as Water Weeter or Zerex Racing Coolant. Antifreeze will eventually lose its corrosion inhibiting properties as those chemicals are slowly used up during the corrosion inhibiting process, and should be replaced regularly (in cars, they should be replaced every 1-2 years). Antifreeze lowers water's ability to absorb heat from the cooling loop.

Water Wetter and Zerex Racing Coolant also contain corrosion inhibitors and change the freezing/boiling point of water, but are lacking most of the other properties of antifreeze. They will also wear out over time like antifreeze. The surface tension reduction that these additives provide has been proven to be eclipsed by the negative effect they have on water's ability to absorb heat from a PC cooling system. Additionally, in the case of Water Wetter, silicates fall out of solution at the low temperatures seen in PC water cooling systems, which prompts many people to avoid using it.

Though I do not personlly have any experience with bacteria or algae, others have reported problems when using antifreeze, Zerex, or Water Wetter. A biological inhibitor must also be used to prevent problems in the long run, especially when appropriate cleaning precautions are not taken prior to assembling a water cooling system.

Katharsis · Post by **Katharsis** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:30 pm

really in our situation freezing/boiling point changes are unnecessary, unless your running some phase change/peltier setup. watercooling rigs need less additive than automobiles due to the fact that autos run much higher temps and have less restrictive/higher flow systems. i'm not sure how much this applies to racing coolant since it slightly differs from normal antifreeze, but you definately dont want to add antifreeze in the manuf. suggested amount of 50/50. your pump would clog and die. also like others have said, adding antifreeze to water hurts its ability to remove heat. so you only want to add just enough additives to stop corrosion and bacteria. most stuff i've read suggests 4 to 8oz per gallon. here's one example (although i know that just because someone on the internet says something, doesn't make it true). http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.p ... =54&page=1

nicoliani · Post by **nicoliani** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:46 pm

There are many complaints of smell using Zalmans own anticorrosive fluid.

Happy Hopping · Post by **Happy Hopping** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:17 am

Speaking of corrosion, does anyone encounter corrosion using the reservator?

Does the Anodized Pure Aluminum only slow down the inevitable corrosion, or does it stop corrosion?

Say you connect the above to 2 x cpu water block that is silver based.

Post by **Rusty075** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:03 am

Depending on what additives you run in the Reserator, corrosion seems to be really limited. The anodized aluminum and the copper in the WB show little corrosion...most of the deposits gather on the steel mounting hardware for the pump.

Having an anti-corrosive additive in the system is probably the most important part. Case in point:

I own two reserator's, one was the unit used for our review. It was run for about 9 months of continuous use as part of a long-term test after reports of the pump failures started popping up. It was run with DI and Water Wetter in the loop. (a reserator system is about the only system I would run WW in). When taken down after 9 months that system was nearly pristine inside - no deposits in the tank, WB interior still shiny and clean, and only minor deposits on the pump mounting screws. The pump was as quiet as it was the first day.

The second system, which I bought from one of our forum members, was run an almost identical amount of time, but he followed the original zalman directions to the letter, and only ran pure DI, with no additives. The inside of that WB looks like it went down with the Titanic, and he went through two separate pumps that gradually got noisier and died.

Happy Hopping · Post by **Happy Hopping** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:50 pm

What's DI stands for?

IN more than one forums that I visit, there are some compliant about the chemcial c/w Zalman reservator has a very bad smell, some even suggest long term exposure may link to cancer.

NOw, I like my sys. to be quiet, but I can live w/ the noise if we are dealing w/ cancer.

What's your take on this? IS there some other coolant that is anti-corrosive or perhaps anti-ionized that there is no smell?

Or put it this way, is it the way that those members in all those forums somehow didn't seal the sys. correctly, and thus the smell leak thru the air?

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:25 pm

anti freeze sux but works fine and doesnt corrode.

water wetter is by far a better option. buy poland spring distilled water and use 5-7% water wetter for a YEAR of clear operation.

Post by **Rusty075** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:01 pm

Happy Hopping wrote:What's DI stands for?

IN more than one forums that I visit, there are some compliant about the chemcial c/w Zalman reservator has a very bad smell, some even suggest long term exposure may link to cancer.

NOw, I like my sys. to be quiet, but I can live w/ the noise if we are dealing w/ cancer.

What's your take on this? IS there some other coolant that is anti-corrosive or perhaps anti-ionized that there is no smell?

Or put it this way, is it the way that those members in all those forums somehow didn't seal the sys. correctly, and thus the smell leak thru the air?

DI=Distilled water.

Yeah, some of the common additives, like Water Wetter do have a smell to them, particularly if used in higher than needed concentrations. I don't know exactly what Zalman is including with their kits now, but it might be something very similar to WW. The Reserator has a hole in the top of it, so it is always open to the air. I never smelled my system though, so it might depend on you environment too. (ie, small room with little air circulation)

As Jefe suggested, regular automotive anti-freeze is probably the most commonly used water cooling additive. Zyrex brand doesn't seem to have much of a smell. You could wander down the anti-freeze aisle of your local autoparts store sniffing them until you find one you like.

El Doug · Post by **El Doug** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:12 pm

ill take the role of rude, overly-obsessive chemist and tell you its DeIonized, which IS different from distilled

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:42 am

ah yes DI is not good, distilled is good. distilled means just water, it is cheap, easy to acquire (poland spring much luck with) and well, works great.

I use water wetter, about a 1/3 a bottle (not that big a bottle). The first few drops into the resevoir, the water immediately flowed like soemthing from a sci-fi movie, it was effortless, no splashing sound, made everything silent in a second. weird. The fluid in my res1 is still purply pink clear after 8 months of it being in there untreated. I have topped it off with some water when i had a microscopic leak from one of the fittings at one point, but since then it needs no maintenence.

Oh, btw: things got better when I put a piece of chiclet chewing gum on the blow hole. Yes, once the unit is sealed up and up to full heat levels, say 3-4 days worth of 24/7 usage, plug it up! no smells or loss of liquid.

It's on there fora reason, but the reason is for people putting in 50 degree water and then having their proc go to 125 degrees F, the expansion and stuff would cause a pop in the fittings or small leaks due to pressure.

I just took a good guess there btw, but I think I am correct.

Happy Hopping · Post by **Happy Hopping** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:12 am

You guys are the first that I came across who suggest Poland spring water. I bet you guys drink this, as they are spring water too:

http://www.finewaters.com/Bottled_Water ... ng_H2O.asp

timc3 · Post by **timc3** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:01 pm

So does anyone have the definitive answer about what to put in my new Zalman Reserator? Or should I just follow the instructions?

mikellpp · Post by **mikellpp** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:35 am

Well you can just pick your poison, as some have been happy with WW as an additive and i with HydrX.

I added the Swiftec Hydrox to a new Reserator last July and it has been running 24/7 since. The pump runs just as quiet today as the first day and without dismantling it, but just looking in the tank there are no signs of corrosion or gunk build up.

The HydrX is 5% ethelene glycol and is diluted 17:1 in the Reserator tank at 1 bottle per liter of distilled water.

The pumps are designed to run continuosly, so i think its better to run it 24/7 even if you shut down your pc.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:58 pm

yeah i agree about the pumps doing that. run em always.

Water wetter is still my favorite. performs really well. shrugs.

I like the BLing H20.

thats got mega style.