Watercooling P180

[2grVe]

Hello everyone,

Reading on SPCR for a while now and thought it was time to post. I think there is no other place I’m going to get better advice from (i.e. great job!)… Played with silencing methods on my last two pcs. Its time for a new pc and this time I don’t want to patch things together but do it right from the start (Although I have no illusions that’s not going to happen ). Anyway, after spending decades reading through forums, I still have more questions than answers.

I was wondering if anyone has had a go installing a watercooling system in the P180. I don’t want external parts, so no external radiator etc. (If this sounds like a stupid idea, feel free to express your outrage… hope this has not been explicitly discussed else were in the forum, cant find anything)

Playing with following setup:

- Install PSU and harddrives as usual in the lower compartment.
Either Passive + 120 fan or just PSU fan (still trying to decide with all the posts).
- Asus A8N-SLI Premium (passive Northbridge)
- Aquastream 12V Pump (Modified Eheim) cooling CPU and GPU with a compact radiator installed at the back 120 vent. Seal the top. I guess the pump and reservoir need to sit in the middle bay and/or in two of the 5” bays.

I want this to become a X2 system with a new gen. GPU (not interested in OC). These are quite hot, so I’m trying to find a compromise between noise and performance. If anyone thinks air cooling is still the better way to go, glad to hear any idea.

Any Comments welcome…

Thanks...

[chylld]

Welcome to SPCR, 2grVe!

I think you have the right attitude with building your new system - especially if it's watercooled. with watercooling it's always better to get your system right from the start! patching it up is literally a mess.

no need to expect outrage from the idea of a totally internal wc setup - it's very reasonable and has a lot of reasons going for it, which is why my initial wc setup was entirely internal too. what you sacrifice in performance you regain in portability and neatness.

your general approach and choice of pump seem very reasonable. with the pump, please remember to take into account the extra space required by the tubing coming out of the pump - you might have to put it in sideways if you're hoping to fit it in 2 5.1/4" drive bays. worse comes to worst (and i really mean, worst) you can use a 90 degree elbow to help with tube routing.

where you place the radiator is the single most important decision you'll have to make that'll affect the performance of the system. keep in mind that the better performance you get out of your radiator, the slower you'll be able to run its fans and the quieter your system will be. there are 3 main things to consider:

1) fresh air. try to make sure the air that cools the radiator comes right from the outside, and isn't recirculated/warm case air.

2) a 'pull' configuration. set up the fans so that they 'pull' air through the radiator, as opposed to 'pushing' air through it. low-speed axial fans are much better suited to pulling.

3) a shroud beween the fans and the radiator. this will utilise a lot more of your radiator's surface area at the expense of a small size increase.

if you can keep these 3 points in mind when choosing where to put what, you should end up with a fine system and one that's much better than aircooling, and if done properly, quieter too!

[clocker]

What chip are you planning on cooling?

Will there be two video cards and will they be watercooled also?

[Daikhovalin]

I'm in the same boat as you are with regards to watercooling in a P180. Here are a few things I have found that might help.

Keeping the radiator internal is a good idea but I ran into two things that made me move it outside the case. The first was that my single 120mm rad (a black ice extreme) was a little disappointing temp wise, but then again, I'm not only cooling a dual core P4, but an nvidia 6800GT as well, so your milage may vary. Second was that it did not fit in the space where the rear exhaust fan is located. It will go into the space but the mounting/fan holes did not line up with the holes in the case. I squeezed it in without using the mounting holes and it did kinda stick there from friction/tight fit alone, but I wouldn't recommend it. I suppose I could have drilled new holes, but I ended up putting it on the outside of the case. It was much happier (temp wise) out there with a push/pull fan config on it. It does stick out about 4.5 inches with the shrouded fan, but I was willing to compromise for the sake of combining performance and quiet.

I'm using an eheim1048 pump that is very similar to you model (mine is AC though) and I am very happy with it. I went with 1/2 inch ID tubing and it seems to work better than using 3/8 inch ID. I placed my pump on the divider that separates the PSU chamber from the mobo chamber with some weather stripping foam on the bottom of it to dampen the vibration. This works pretty well, although I did have to remove the bracket that holds the VGA duct (and the duct) as well as the thumbscrews that hold the sliding divider panels in place.

I put a single bay 5.25" reservoir in one of the upper 5.25" bays. I did run into some problems with this. The reservoir I was going to use at first was a swiftech polyplastic thingy, but the holes for attaching the drive rails are on the lower portion of the res. The drive rails of the P180 are designed to mount on the upper holes, so when I slid this in place, it extended up into the drive bay above, meaning it didn't fit with 2 optical drives and a fan controller. I had to use a different reservoir (one that had the right configuration of mounting holes) to fit all my junk in place. Even on the new res(an acrylic jobbie by dangerden), the rails wouldn't fit in both mounting holes unless I drilled a new hole in the rail. Make sure your reservoir doesn't have the same problem.

I hope this helps. My setup isn't complete yet, so if I run across any other issues, I'll be sure to post them. I hope you'll share your experiences as well. Good luck.

[2grVe]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback already… I guess first some more detail is called for. These are the components I’m looking at:

-Asus A8N-SLI Premium
-AMD X2 4400+
-GeForce 7xxx or 6xxx (price!, although I read the 7x is cooler)
-Antec Phantom 500
-12V Pump either:
- Aquastream Pump Rev. 3.0
- Eheim HPPS Plus

A8N-SLI Premium has a passive Northbridge. I dont need a SLI system so that leaves a CPU Block and the respective GPU unit (yet to decide which model but as the layout goes I guess that’s not relevant).

Pump:
Sounds like finding room is possible, I don’t need the middle drive cage so hope that leaves room to play with.

Radiator:
As for the radiator, I guess that’s going to be the real issue. Daikhovalin, your dual core P4, and 6800GT sound similar temp wise so I guess I’m faced with similar decision. I would hate to need to install outside but I am not going to ignore the option if it sounds like the best way to go. Looking at the options:

- make the radiator fit at the back be it the last thing I do. (guess it would be a honourable way to go on this site )

- Install the radiator on the outside at the back or on top (and then maybe even move to dual rad, but guess this option is not pro-silent)

- Don’t know but could a single radiator be installed at the front 120 grid in the middle with a fan pulling air through it behind. Then install the pump behind.

- Just thought of this, (really stupid, but hey) install the radiator in the bottom chamber with the fan pulling air through it, then hope the air current is still decent but thinking about it this option should probably be safely ignored, oh god cant stop typing…

Sorry,
so…

[teknerd]

The one thing i would reconsider in your system is the choice of motherboard. I believe that a passive northbridge system like that relies at least partly on the airflow generated by the cpu fan. It would probably be a better idea to simply include the northbridge in the water cooling loop.

[Daikhovalin]

I'm not sure a 120mm rad would fit in the front area where the upper 3.5" drive cage is. It might be too tight and there arent any screw holes to secure it. It could be done but probably not without resorting to the dremel tool or drill. Maybe a small 80mm one would work (maybe as a second radiator? I'm not certain the pump you're planning to use will fit in the drive cage area unless you put it on its side and/or use 90 degree elbow fittings

Personally I've been considering one of the innovatek konvect-o-matic maxi passive radiators with a silver finish. It's big though. I'm not sure the side panel of the P180 would hold its weight (10LBs empty, who knows how much if filled with water). It would fit nicely with the silver color of the case and it's passive/silent.

The previous post makes a good point about cooling the northbridge, but I wouldn't worry about adding it to your loop though (you're going to have enough heat to deal with as is). If you have the radiator's fans blowing air out of the case, it shouldn't be an issue. My NB is passively cooled and its temps never get over 110F even at heavy load with only 2 5v 120mm fans in the whole system. I could be wrong about this however because I do not have experience with AMD based systems and I don't know how hot their northbridges run.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

[Edward Ng]

I tried to fit a BIP 120 in the front area and it's not happening without serious cutting action.

Doesn't work too well out back, either. This is basically why I gave up trying to water cool my P180 rig.

-Ed

[2grVe]

I guess despite being huge, space in the P180 is at a premium at least for a WC rig. Considering the back and front seem difficult without a lot of cutting, the options seem to be dwindling. I guess that leaves outside, have looked at those passive rad. as well but they are huge and the P180 is already heavy.

-Does anyone think you could actually use the lower chamber for mounting a rad?
-I also find the idea of two rads interesting, can the pump handle it?
- And does any one actually know what the sound levels on most pumps are?

Maybe another case would be better, or just try air cooling.
Ed, hope you dont mind me asking but what setup have you gone for instead (assuming you have a fast rig aswell, needing WC in the first place)?

Thanks everyone,

[Edward Ng]

I had dual radiators in my previous setup; one Black Ice Pro 120 and one Black Ice Xtreme 120, along with a Swiftech res, a Storm G4 and an NV-68 block. My Laing DDC had no trouble at all producing sufficient flow in that loop.

The new system I planned to water cool will produce plenty of heat, but it looks like I'll just have to settle for air cooling at mmoderate noise levels--I say moderate because the P180 will temper the sound pretty well given the components, which are an ABIT AN8-SLI with San Diego 3700+, a 1GB dual channel kit of OCZ Gold VX PC4000 and a pair of XFX GeForce 7800GTX cards in SLI plus a Raptor, all arriving on Wednesday. The stuff I'm reusing from my current rig are an SP1614N, the P180 and an S12-600 (not really reusing the case and PSU so much as they have been sitting around waiting for the rest of the parts while being filled with old stuff for the time being).

See as I am not yet sure what cooling solutions fit the 7800GTX cards, I'm afraid I'll have to stick with their stock cooling until I know what will work for sure. The CPU already has an XP-120 here waiting for it. The real issue isn't just what fits a 7800GTX, but what fits the top card in an SLI of 7800GTXs without choking it. I'm fairly confident Arctic Cooling will release an NV Silencer for the 7800GTX, if the NV Silencer 5 rev. 2 doesn't already fit, but that's only a good solution for the lower card; what to do about the upper card? I'm pondering Thermalright V-1, but since it doesn't list 6800/GT/Ultra on its list of compatible cards, I'm not getting my hopes up about it fitting 7800GTX. The upcoming Aerocool VM-102 looks promising but it may just be too big to fit considerng the XP-120 on the CPU.

It's too difficult to tell without having the hardware on hand, really...

-Ed

[olyar15]

I am also planning on watercooling my new setup. I also want to keep everything inside, and I came upon the Koolance site which showed their new Aquian internal watercooling kit. Should fit in the P180. Couple that with their Nvidia GPU/memory cooler, a northbridge cooler, and you should have a pretty quiet rig. I don't know how quiet the Aquian is, but it only uses a single 120mm fan.

The computer I am building includes:
Antec P180
Seasonic S12-500 PSU
Athlon 64X2 4800+
1GB OCZ Gold DDR400
2 x Nvidia 6800GT SLI
2 x WD Raptor 74Gb drive in RAID0
Plextor 716 DVD writer
The above mentioned Koolance kit with CPU, GPU, and northbridge coolers

I am planning on removing all the case fans, so the only fans will be in the PSU and the watercooler. The hard drives will probably be the loudest components. Still waiting on a lot of the components to arrive. Sucks being in Canada, we seem to get everything later than the US.

[TD22057]

I was in the same boat a few weeks ago. I decided to start water cooling and looked around for a new case that would hold everything internally. I don't have the space for a full tower and I was really hoping the P180 would work out. However, after getting some of the internal measurements (of the various bays) from people here, I decided that there just wasn't enough room for the radiator (I really wanted to mount it in the lower front bay).

After looking around, I ended up w/ a Lian-Li V1100. Yes it's aluminum instead of steel but the internal configuration was more important to me. It's got a sealed door, sound dampening material in the panels, and the build quality is amazing. Even the internal drive racks and partitions are screwed in place so I didn't have to drill out any rivets. Here's a shot of the case w/ the lower drive cages removed.



I removed all the lower plates that were over the inlets on the bottom of the case and then used a jig saw to cut away as much material as possible in the power supply spot (I've got Nexus-4090 which has an inlet on the bottom). I also cut another hole in the horizontal partition to help w/ the plumbing for the pump. Here's a short after the mods: (Ignore the bent metal below the power supply - operator error on my part)



I lined all the lower surfaces and the power supply mount with some rubber/foam sheet and then installed everything. The cable management in this case is great - I was able to route everything up behind the drive cages so the space over the mother board is clear.



The radiator is currently blowing out through the front inlet and I've reversed the rear fan. I need to add my fan controller to experiment w/ slower speeds on these guys. I built my own reservoir with a large hole in the bottom that's covered w/ a copper plate. This sits on top of the hard drive (in the front 5.25" bays) to help cool the HD.

The only problem I'm having w/ this set up is that the HD temp's are in the low to mid 40's. Obviously my pseudo-water cooled HD solution isn't working very well. I'd like to do something to get those temps down. I'm also going to try reversing the air flow by switching the lower fan and radiator so the fan is pulling air in through the front intake. At some point I'd like to get a radiator that doesn't restrict the flow so much (I'm using a cheap 2" thick heater core right now).

At some point I'll try to post w/ some better pictures if anyone is interested.

[2grVe]

I guess the Koolance Aquian set is an option, interested to find out if it fits and what the noise/temps are. (Like the way it swings out)

Someone mentioned the size of the bays, I’m sure someone has posted the dimensions elsewhere but would be very grateful if anyone has them or a link. Otherwise I might just order the case and then work through my options.

If anyone finishes a high performance P180 rig, would be chuffed if they would post some pics, (has anyone started a post for finished P180 rigs, not including the review?)

Cheers… for everyone’s input

[alex7575]

I guess the Koolance Aquian set is an option, interested to find out if it fits and what the noise/temps are. (Like the way it swings out)

Someone mentioned the size of the bays, I’m sure someone has posted the dimensions elsewhere but would be very grateful if anyone has them or a link. Otherwise I might just order the case and then work through my options.

If anyone finishes a high performance P180 rig, would be chuffed if they would post some pics, (has anyone started a post for finished P180 rigs, not including the review?)

Cheers… for everyone’s input

2grVe,

Thanks for trying to help me with my issue earlier, on my other post.

This is the first time I installed a WC system, and I was very pleased with the results. I have a Thermaltake Big Water (TBW) system, and it fit with no problems in my system.

The TBW's a "newbie" WC System, as I read around the net. So I thought "perfect!". So far it did all I wanted it to do: to be quiet, cool and the plus of being "cool".

Here are the dimensions for the rig (from their website):

Pump : 100 x 50 x 86 mm
Radiator : 122 x 35 x 166 mm (with the fan attached)

See pictures to my rig here:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=23442

The radiator fit perfect in the back of the case, and although I removed the top fan, I still barely had room for the radiator (it wasn't centered so i had to attached by only 2 screws). But without the upper fan, the rad fits perfect (with all 4 screws attached).

I have the rad's fan blowing inward, and the temperatures in my setup are not the best I could hope for, but still really good. I'm going to redirection the fan and see if that makes any difference. I'll keep you guys posted and I'll take some pictures too.

[2grVe]

well,

I have found a single radiator that measures 150x120x30. Sure that will fit both in front and in the back. Cant imagine that the cooling temp. is too good but I am hoping that two will make for ok temp. Cant find a shop in Germany that has stocked that P180, they all say around the 20.07.05 so ill just have to wait.

[DougG]

Not sure if your going to use Ehiem 1048 or 1250?
If 1048, CSP-MAG pump will work better, smaller, very quite and your MOBO can monitor it for any troubles.

Replaced my 1048 for DDC, was cheap crap!
Replaced DDC with Mag, so quite it scared me.

Using Danger Den TDX block, going for second Mag and GPU block next

[2grVe]

Has nobody tried the Eheim HPPS Plus.
Heard its great and only draws 3, 5W max. Hopefully no buzz.

[Ruiner]

This is what I would do:

1. Isolate the rear portion of the PSU chamber so that the PSU is separate from the front lower case. It will only have to cool itself, which should keep the fan quiet.

2. Rip out the lower chamber fan and drive bays and put a twin 120 radiator (BIP2 or HE120.2, with fans) there lengthwise (sitting vertically on one of its long sides) and duct airflow from the front opening, thru the rad, and out blow holes in the case side cover.

3. The pump could either sit in front of the PCI slots, assuming they are empty, or where the removable HDD bay is. (I put my HDD in a 5.5" enclosure anyway. A swiftech pump/bayres would work great too.

4. Use the top or rear 120mm fan for mobo and hdd airflow. Seal off the other one.

All the main heatsources are isolated from one another, and the fans are kept far from the front case openings where they would be easily heard. The PSU and rad in particular get fresh air without dumping heat to one another.

[~El~Jefe~]

I dont want to rain on anyone's gleeful spending parade but....


if you water cool your system it becomes silent inside and the p180 case is just a more complicated and more expensive way to do it.

antec slk 3700 bqe is what I use, you could go something taller if you want to put a radiator in it (which, btw is harder then to silence and make watertight I feel) you could even go like.... nail the mobo to a piece of wood and not cover it. the board no longer has any noise generation to it. so long as you suspend the hd's.

[2grVe]

you could go something taller if you want to put a radiator in it

How do you cool a system without a radiator?

[chylld]

i think he's referring to a heatercore or other large 2x120mm radiator, as opposed to the more commercial watercooling targeted 1x120mm radiators such as the BIP/BIX.

[~El~Jefe~]

yes, exactly. where you can increase heat dissipation via surface area vs pump pressure (noise) and higher fan volumes (noise).

[Ruiner]

Noise produced by the individual components aside, there are other issues to deal with when trying to WC a case quietly. The p180 design potentially helps a few of these.

If you put the rad drawing air in (so it gets its own cool air) then you are dumping heat into you HDD, mobo, mosfets, graphics card, and psu (ramping up fan speed).
If you put the rad exhausting air on top, then it is fed warm air from all those components.

Ideally, the psu and radiator should each get fresh air and dump it outside the case. They will be the noisiest, largest heat sources in any sorted out WC rig. A slow turning 120 exhaust fan should then be enough exhaust case air heated by the mobo (and it's mosfets and NB/SB), drives and water pump.

And aside from being cheap, heatercores are not the thing for silent WCing. Their increased thickness requires noisy high pressure fans to work. BI pro cores (not X) are less than 1" thick....perfect for quiet fans.

[chylld]

If you put the rad drawing air in (so it gets its own cool air) then you are dumping heat into you HDD, mobo, mosfets, graphics card, and psu (ramping up fan speed).

very true. i have a plastic box situated near the exhaust of my radbox and it's much warmer than anything else around it. the carpet is also quite warm. inside a pc case, it'd be even warmer

And aside from being cheap, heatercores are not the thing for silent WCing. Their increased thickness requires noisy high pressure fans to work. BI pro cores (not X) are less than 1" thick....perfect for quiet fans.

not very true. heatercores don't require high pressure fans at all, i'm running 2 papst 4412fgl's at 7 volts pulling air through a 40mm thick heatercore that you can't even see through. it pulls air out just fine, and loses less than a degree in performance compared to the fans at 12v.

the key is to have enough space between the radiator and the fans, and to have a reasonably tight seal around this gap so that air doesn't 'shortcut'. but having run both blackice radiators and heatercores in my setups, heatercores are not only cheaper but they offer much better performance at the same noise level.

[Voodoo Rufus]

How about placing a BI Pro in the bottom chamber on the 120x38 fan, or on the back/upper panels in the main chamber?

Right now it looks like a PA160 is out of the question unless placed flat in the lower chamber, like a BI Pro2.

Thinner radiators have less restriction than heater cores, and will allow for better cooling for low speed fans. It's based on this how the PA160 was designed.

[merovingian]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback already… I guess first some more detail is called for. These are the components I’m looking at:
-Asus A8N-SLI Premium
-AMD X2 4400+
-GeForce 7xxx or 6xxx (price!, although I read the 7x is cooler)
-Antec Phantom 500
-12V Pump either:
- Aquastream Pump Rev. 3.0
- Eheim HPPS Plus

It's perfect! Someone has done their homework it looks like.

You got an extra PCI slot? I would go with an eheim 1250 but I don't know about a HPPS Plus! Please let me know cause I'm curious. Anyway, check this out

P.S.- eVGA and BFG both have cold bugs so don't watercool them until they come out with a fix. XFX is the only 7800GTX I know of that doesn't suffer from watercooling issues.

[2grVe]

You got an extra PCI slot? I would go with an eheim 1250 but I don't know about a HPPS Plus! Please let me know cause I'm curious.

http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/me ... _Code=Pump

I dont know what you are cooling, but for me the 1250 is overkill. Only cooling CPU and GPU, the HPPS + is smaller and quite. Also its 12V.

[2grVe]

Ok, I am about ready to order my watercooling stuff.
Anyone see anything missing/wrong etc... suggestions,

Pump: Eheim HPPS Plus
CPU: NexXxos XP
GPU: NexXxos GP2X-A
Res: AGB-O-Matic

Rad: Already ordered.

5m Tygon R3603 8/11
12* Screw Fittings 8/11

Eheim HPPS Adapter -> 1/4 fitting

Is there anything else that helps, maybe some fittings for dumping the system later (how do you actually best dump the water?)