Quietest 12v pump?

The alternative to direct air cooling

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

DougG
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 2:25 am

Post by DougG » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:14 pm

D5 is very quite at 1 or 2 setting, just don't see the point in getting this pump if you must turn it down?

Imvd85
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:01 pm
Location: Greece (Thessaloniki)

Post by Imvd85 » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:41 pm

For the same reason we get a 12cm fan and then turn it down.
(It's part of this site's name after all)

zds
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:26 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

Post by zds » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:11 pm

Imvd85 wrote:For the same reason we get a 12cm fan and then turn it down.
(It's part of this site's name after all)
I think the point was that instead running D5 at setting 1 you could get DCC or CSP-MAG, that are quiet even at full throttle.

Imvd85
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:01 pm
Location: Greece (Thessaloniki)

Post by Imvd85 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:45 pm

are they really?
If you check the sound files on this site http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-14.html (also mentioned in older post with explanation) , you see that one cannot take that for granted.
I wish it was true though.I could use the extra space.

zds
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:26 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

Post by zds » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:20 am

Imvd85 wrote:are they really?
If you check the sound files on this site http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-14.html (also mentioned in older post with explanation) , you see that one cannot take that for granted.
I wish it was true though.I could use the extra space.
Remember that those sound files were recorded from very close distance and noises this low are hard to reproduce precisely. If you look at the dB chart, both DDC and D5@#1 were under measuring threshold of their equipment at _10cm_ distance. Noise level below 35dB from 10cm is something you cannot hear if it's inside your case.

I do not own D5, but I own DDC and plan to buy a second one and my sample is indeed very quiet.

But, it seems that at these noise levels even small defects in manufacturing can make or break a quiet pump, so no guarantees there. But as D5 and DDC are both manufactured by the same company (Laing), I wouldn't expect either of them to have significantly higher rate of bad ones than the another.

But noise levels of all these three contestants, D5, DDC and CSP-MAG, are so low that I bet you can get any one of them and get it silent, unless you run across a bad sample.

DougG
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 2:25 am

Post by DougG » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:09 pm

Maybe I indeed have a bad D5 sample, it is a early model.

DDC was quite, seemed louder then MAG.

Of course my DDC's got REAL quite one day :)

oguzokay
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:42 pm

Post by oguzokay » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:31 am

Innovatek's HHPS+ is a piece of art. It is virtually silent. It doesn't need any modifications. You'll never hear the pump even in an extremely silent PC which has no fans at all.

echn111
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:15 pm
Location: UK

Post by echn111 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:34 am

omaticrail wrote: I have a new DDC, and cannot believe all the hype I've heard over how quiet it is. "Barely audible at 1 foot," and "less vibration than my hard drive." I can hear mine 20 feet away, and it's sitting on foam amid three 120mm Panaflo M1As running at 1100 RPM. I've had it running a few days, and all the little microscopic air bubbles appear to be bled out.

Yup same here. Read some good things about the DDC (aka Swiftech MCP350 /Laing/Danger Den DDC). Thought I did my research too. And am most disappointed. Perhaps there is a serious quality control issue with this pump since opinions differ so much. Ah well.

Marci
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:49 am
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
Contact:

Post by Marci » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:26 am

Seriously, every one I've fitted in a system has been no louder than the Nexus fans I use on the radiators... the noise of the Nexus fans (which I have to strain to hear, as we fit them at 7v) is generally louder than that of the pump... Honestly not a clue as to why so many are experiencing higher levels of noise. Perhaps cos I've only fitted DDC Ultras (without the stock top) - but most folks report that makes MORE noise, not less... when I tried the original 10w DDC a year or so back, yep, it was noisy and could be heard and i was unimpressed, but then they corrected the issue later down the line and every one I've used since has been inaudible.

I ALWAYS mount them with rubber vibration-isolating studs... and never fire the pump up unitl the system is completely full of water (no need to run pump to fill a system - only ever turn it on at the end of filling to get the last of the air pockets out, but that's it).

Puzzled am I...! Sorry can't be of more help, just reporting my personal experiences and obs.

zds
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:26 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

Post by zds » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:36 am

[quote="echn111"]Yup same here. Read some good things about the DDC (aka Swiftech MCP350 /Laing/Danger Den DDC). Thought I did my research too. And am most disappointed. Perhaps there is a serious quality control issue with this pump since opinions differ so much. Ah well.[/quote]

Sorry if I'm asking redundant questions, but

1) do you have the original model, 10W one?
2) do you have it with the acrylic top?
3) is it soft-mounted?
4) are you 100% sure it's completely bled?

If the answer is "yes" to every question, then I can just share the puzzlement with Marci.

echn111
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:15 pm
Location: UK

Post by echn111 » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:31 am

It was a 12v DDC/MCP350.

Have now replaced the stock top with the acrylic plexitop and am using the top part as the inflow.

Have also soft-mounted it by tossing out the reservoir that came with the kit (which prevented soft-mounting the pump).

It's now quiet!

migueld
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:46 pm

Post by migueld » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:41 pm

echn111 wrote:It was a 12v DDC/MCP350.

Have now replaced the stock top with the acrylic plexitop and am using the top part as the inflow.

Have also soft-mounted it by tossing out the reservoir that came with the kit (which prevented soft-mounting the pump).

It's now quiet!
Welcome to SPCR land :)

zds
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:26 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

Post by zds » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:31 am

echn111 wrote:It's now quiet!
Grats :) .

M4rvin
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 1:35 pm

Post by M4rvin » Sat May 05, 2007 1:43 pm

oguzokay wrote:Innovatek's HHPS+ is a piece of art. It is virtually silent. It doesn't need any modifications. You'll never hear the pump even in an extremely silent PC which has no fans at all.
What WC system are you running and what are you cooling with it?

Anyone else tried this pump? I'd like to use it in my future system IF it's virtually silent.

HammerSandwich
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:21 pm
Location: 15143, USA
Contact:

Post by HammerSandwich » Sun May 06, 2007 11:11 am

M4rvin wrote:Anyone else tried this pump?
IIRC, bobkoure liked it a lot. Note for searching: it's really the "HPPS".

Khrono Devil
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:18 am
Location: New Zealand

Post by Khrono Devil » Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:16 am

The Liang MCP355 also know as the Liang DDC Ultra w/ alphacool top is very quiet

HammerSandwich
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:21 pm
Location: 15143, USA
Contact:

Post by HammerSandwich » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:27 am

Khrono Devil wrote:The Liang MCP355 also know as the Liang DDC Ultra w/ alphacool top is very quiet
That's the 18W DDC, which does not meet SPCR's standards of quiet. From Swiftech's product page:
A Note of Caution! the MCP355 generates higher audible noise than the MCP350 and MCP655 pumps. This product is not recomended for users seeking silent operations.

bobkoure
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm

Post by bobkoure » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:41 am

IMHO the very best pump for low noise is the Innovatek HPPS which is a 12V version of the Eheim 1046 but it uses a slightly different rotor, which provides about the same volume as the 1046, but a pressure "curve" more like the 1048.
Like the Eheim 1046, it's essentially inaudible, but vibrates. I've had good luck with sorbothane pads. I also us soft silicone tubing, so vibration is not transmitted through the tubing.
Also, they cool just fine, although I've always paired these pumps with low-restriction waterblocks, like the current Swiftech Apogee
PS: I'm pretty sure you cannot use that rotor in a "AC" 1046...

bobkoure
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm

Post by bobkoure » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:23 pm

BTW, the HPPS "Plus" pumps are set up so you can change the pump frequency. It's still inaudible, but, depending on how you've mounted it, some other frequency might generate less sympathetic vibration.
See this thread.
I've got mine set to the lowest frequency. Some folks have had good luck setting to "auto", which seems to be the highest frequency (about 72Hz?) as the higher frequencies don't "travel" that well. It's done by soldering jumpers between solder pads, and I plan (eventually) to solder these all to a jumper block or switches so I can easily go back and forth to A/B the sound output.
Not that folks here care, but my CPU temps went up about 4C when I went from stock to low...

oguzokay
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:42 pm

Post by oguzokay » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:59 am

M4rvin wrote:
oguzokay wrote:Innovatek's HHPS+ is a piece of art. It is virtually silent. It doesn't need any modifications. You'll never hear the pump even in an extremely silent PC which has no fans at all.
What WC system are you running and what are you cooling with it?

Anyone else tried this pump? I'd like to use it in my future system IF it's virtually silent.
E6600, ASUS P5WDH, 2900XT

I ve got 5 blocks (CPU, Northbridge, Southbridge, GPU, Mosfet), a dual radiator (fans not mounted) and an Innovatek Konvect o Matic Ultra passive radiator in my loop. HPPS+ is definetely the pump for silence. I use it in "normal" mode. It also has a "silent" mode but I never used it because even in normal mode, you wont hear it once the loop is filled and air is out.

BTW, its suitable for continues 7/24 usage. At innovatek forum, moderators stated that HPPS+ has a MTBF of 160000 hours. I ve been using mine over 2 years and my computer is always on (7/24)
Last edited by oguzokay on Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

oguzokay
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:42 pm

Post by oguzokay » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:06 am

bobkoure wrote:BTW, the HPPS "Plus" pumps are set up so you can change the pump frequency. It's still inaudible, but, depending on how you've mounted it, some other frequency might generate less sympathetic vibration.
You can avoid vibration that might be caused by the pump with this:

http://www.pc-cooling.at/product_info.p ... cts_id=425

Mine is mounted on it and there s no audiable vibration

bobkoure
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm

Post by bobkoure » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:42 am

I use the "gel stuff" from Petra's Tech Shop (great stuff).
But - before I vibration isolate, I put the running pump in direct contact with the case, and mass-load everything that vibrates. That way, the vibration that "leaks through" and some will - if only through your tubing - won't generate noise. My favorite mass-loading material isn't Dynamat2 any more, but EDead (cheaper, too).
But we were talking about pumps.
BTW, I have a few of those HPPS pumps in various machines I've built for friends. They mostly run 24x7, it's been some years, and I have yet to see a single failure. This is hardly data ("The plural of anecdote is not data.") but it does seem to indicate that these are as reliable as Eheim-labeled Eheim pumps.

ThatSteveGuy
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:49 pm

Post by ThatSteveGuy » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:09 pm

bobkoure wrote:I use the "gel stuff" from Petra's Tech Shop (great stuff).
But - before I vibration isolate, I put the running pump in direct contact with the case, and mass-load everything that vibrates. That way, the vibration that "leaks through" and some will - if only through your tubing - won't generate noise. My favorite mass-loading material isn't Dynamat2 any more, but EDead (cheaper, too).
But we were talking about pumps.
BTW, I have a few of those HPPS pumps in various machines I've built for friends. They mostly run 24x7, it's been some years, and I have yet to see a single failure. This is hardly data ("The plural of anecdote is not data.") but it does seem to indicate that these are as reliable as Eheim-labeled Eheim pumps.
Where might one obtain one of these HPPS pumps stateside?

-Steve

YugenM
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Post by YugenM » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:17 pm

ThatSteveGuy wrote:
Where might one obtain one of these HPPS pumps stateside?

-Steve
www.highspeedpc.com

www.frozencpu.com

bobkoure
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm

Post by bobkoure » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:55 am

Marci wrote:Puzzled am I...! Sorry can't be of more help, just reporting my personal experiences and obs.
I suspect that the majority of what folks are hearing is not the noise of the pump itself but of parts of the case making noise because of the pump's vibration. It's really hard to track down where exactly that noise is coming from.
BTW, the best luck I've had with those vibration-isolating studs was when they're attached to something very heavy. I got an Iwaki (not that anyone here would use one of those) calmed down with the combination of studs and a piece of 1/2" aluminum (OK aluminium :) ) plate drilled and tapped for the studs. I also tried different studs (lower durometer worked better). The physics of why the plate improved things should be pretty obvious.
I've not tried one of the new DDCs (I thought the early ones were absurdly loud) but may give 'em another shot based on your comments. They certainly are small enough - and I like the notion of spherical rotor design

slimeballzz
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:17 pm
Location: Canada

Post by slimeballzz » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:30 pm

I have a 12V DDC MCP-350 enclosed in a metal box sitting on top of layers of white foam (the white packaging foam for Antec cases). All I can say is that it is the loudest part of my rig. It could be a vibration issue with the tubing touching the case, but I'm not sure as I haven't taken the pump out to test yet.

So is the Innovatek HHPS+ still on the top of the list?
Asus P5Q-E, Intel Q6600 stock, D-Tek Fuzion v2 w/ Quad Nozzle Kit, OCZ PC2-6400 (2x2GB), Enermax Modu82+ 525W, 8800GTS w/ Accelero S1, Lian-Li V2100B Plus

zds
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:26 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

Post by zds » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:42 am

slimeballzz wrote:I have a 12V DDC MCP-350 enclosed in a metal box sitting on top of layers of white foam (the white packaging foam for Antec cases). All I can say is that it is the loudest part of my rig.
Does it have the acrylic top?

slimeballzz
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:17 pm
Location: Canada

Post by slimeballzz » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:15 pm

zds wrote:
slimeballzz wrote:I have a 12V DDC MCP-350 enclosed in a metal box sitting on top of layers of white foam (the white packaging foam for Antec cases). All I can say is that it is the loudest part of my rig.
Does it have the acrylic top?
Yes it does. It has the standard Alphacool Laing DDC Clear Acrylic Top.
Asus P5Q-E, Intel Q6600 stock, D-Tek Fuzion v2 w/ Quad Nozzle Kit, OCZ PC2-6400 (2x2GB), Enermax Modu82+ 525W, 8800GTS w/ Accelero S1, Lian-Li V2100B Plus

MoJo
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:20 am
Location: UK

Post by MoJo » Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:29 am

Any know anything about the new Apogee Drive 350 Self-Powered Waterblock? Seems to be a CPU block with MCP350 stuck on top.

I can't find any reviews of just the block, but there are a few reviews of the kit they do with it in. Seems to work very well and is fairly quiet, but none of the review sites are testing to SPCR standards.

If it was quiet it would be a fantastic product. Save a lot of space.
http://world3.net

zoob
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:12 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Contact:

Post by zoob » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:07 pm

Just got two DD-CPX1's

QUIETEST PUMPS I've tried.

In terms of noise:

1. DD-CPX1 ~ Eheim 1048 (it's been a while since I had the Eheim, but it was freaking quiet when mounted and bled properly)
2. Laing D5 @ 1
3. Laing DDC2 @ ~10V (on Sunbeam Rheobus)

Main sources of noise:
- Hitachi 1TB HDD -- Soon to be shoved in a Scythe Quiet Drive
- Radeon HD3870 -- Soon to have an Accelero S1 installed
solo ii: i7 3770k - p8z77-v pro - 4x4gb - gtx660ti - crucial m4 256gb - ax750
t61p: t9300 - 2x2gb - intel 330 240gb
win2008: i3 2100 - z77pro3 - 2x4gb - arc-1231ml 12x2tb wd eads r6 - cx400

Post Reply