I've been told my beast needs water

[n00btard]

and if you see me "pimping" German watercooling stuff, it's because I love everything German for some strange reason...

Yeah, german engineering has a reputation, and often for a good reason..

...but as if the products weren't expensive enough already, it's also expensive to import as well. Such as this kit sold at Sharka Computers:

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/aqcoxtcocpuw.html

I wonder whether Nicoman is going to use "German" (low-flow small bore) or "American" (high-flow large bore) watercooling?

[zds]

Yeah, german engineering has a reputation, and often for a good reason..

...but as if the products weren't expensive enough already, it's also expensive to import as well. Such as this kit sold at Sharka Computers:

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/aqcoxtcocpuw.html

Yeah. I personally like to order directly from shops overseas, that way I pay only the amount of premium it takes to ship and pay VAT and taxes. If you buy from the web and pay with credit card, it's really not any different which side of the pond the shop physically resides, except the aformentioned costs.

I wonder whether Nicoman is going to use "German" (low-flow small bore) or "American" (high-flow large bore) watercooling?

Somehow I do not grasp the point in dividing WC parts per that factor. I mean, what matters is how much water pump can move through the loop, and how each block behaves on each amount of flow.

Ie. what matters is the amount of restriction the block causes to the loop and how good cooling it will provide at each flow point. How the water is moved to the block matters a lot less, other than determining how much additional pressure drop the tubing causes.

In other words, in this kind of case (lots of heat sources, no need to cut the last fraction of degree) what matters is that the blocks have low restriction and good cooling also on low flow. The size of the tubing and fittings matters very little.

[Nicoman]

Well, I'm slowly getting there. After having studied this thread thoroughly and read the Chylld thread (again) I'm now feeling confident enough to give it a shot.

For other beginners out there DangerDen have a useful video tutorial that gives a nice introduction and atleast takes away some anxiety from the process. http://dangerden.com/e107_plugins/conte ... content.36

Still nervous about the PSU and will atleast leave it for last, and see how far I get with the rest. I've also found a 13th fan in my case , ehem, very well hidden in my defense, in front of the three hard disks.

So here's the list:

4 Swiftech Apogee Extreme $192
1 Aqua Computer Aquagra FX 7800 GTX VGA $95 http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcoaqfx78gt.html
1 Thermalright HR-05 $18
1 Thermalright HR-05 SLI $24
1 Arctic Silver 5 Thermal paste $7.5

2 Alphacool Modified Laing DDC $180 http://sharkacomputers.com/almoladdc12v.html
1 Alpahcool Laing DDC Dual attachement Hardwareluxx Edition $60 http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... s_id=20552

1 ThermoChill PA120.2 $120
1 120mm Yate Loon D12SL-12 Case Fan (4-pack) $16
4 Zalman fanmates $28
1 80mm to 120mm fan adapter $3

1 Swiftech MCRES-Micro Hi-Flo Reservoir (SFF) - 3/8 & 1/2in $15 http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-mcres-micro.html
10 ClearFlex 60 Tubing 3/8" ID 5/8" OD $15 http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=3181
2 3/8" OD Y-Fitting (for 3/8" ID Tubing) $5 http://www.petrastechshop.com/3odyf3idtu.html
1 MCT-5 non-conductive water $21
24 Reuseable Clamps - For 3/8" Tubing (5/8" O.D.) $24 http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=3909
1 Danger Den Delrin Fillport $12 http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... s_id=20509

3 Scythe "Anti-Vibration HDD Stabilizer 2" for 3.5" HDD $30
4 120mm Sound Vibration Dampener $8
1 Power Supply Sound Vibration Dampener $1.5


The MCT-5 comes in a 32 ounce (946mL) bottle, which sounds little to me given that have fill a radiator and all that tubing. Speaking of tubing I estimated around 10 feet (about 3m) but that was a rough quess, perhaps I will end up using more than I think in order to avoid kinks etc?

After this I will still have 4 fans, two on the radiator (out), one in front of the hard disks (in) and one on the top of the case (out) converted from 80 to 120mm.

I chose the Apogee since it's apparently the successor to the MCW6000, and because it just seemed easier than waiting for the Ekwater blocks from abroad. Based on your recommendations they were all highly regarded.

Cooler for the 7900GTX ended up being trickier, especially if taking the onboard RAM into consideration, and being the better safe than sorry mentality type, I felt I better do that then. The Aquacool seems to do it and was cheaper than the The Danger Den Koosah I considered initially.

For good measure I added some dampening stuff from Petra's Tech for fanss, HDDs and PSU. Hopefully they will do something.

My biggest concern is the radiator, which I'm afraid might be inadequate and that's why I went for the Thermochill, which is claimed to correspond to a 3 fan Swiftech. Go figure, something with dual flow etc. My reasoning is that if the PC120.2 isn't enough I may be able to fit a single fan radiator on the top fan, probably tight though.

It all turned out outragesly expensive but I can't find any real savings, most of the cost lies in the water blocks, radiator and the pumps and not much to do about that. I haven't really shopped around yet though, and I would really like to shave off atleast 10-15% but that may be optimistic.

So does this make me use 'German' or 'American' watercooling?

[Nicoman]

Reading my own mail that I just wrote I'm getting more and more annoyed over the pump's total of $240. Admittedly a key component in the system but are there any alternatives with the same capacity and sound level? An Eheim 1250 is like 80 bucks but I guess very loud.

[n00btard]

Yeah. I personally like to order directly from shops overseas, that way I pay only the amount of premium it takes to ship and pay VAT and taxes. If you buy from the web and pay with credit card, it's really not any different which side of the pond the shop physically resides, except the aformentioned costs.

there's always www.heranke.com to go to... it's like, thrity-something Euros (at least $40?) to ship to U.S. or something.

Somehow I do not grasp the point in dividing WC parts per that factor. I mean, what matters is how much water pump can move through the loop, and how each block behaves on each amount of flow.

I agree with the low-flow/high-flow thing, it doesn't really matter but the retards who go to www.superhardcoreoverclockers.com make a REAL big fuss about it. (and the URL doesn't exist... haha)

EDIT: and here's a little something to read while I find another forum where the G70 block ran into problems: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=105855

[HammerSandwich]

My biggest concern is the radiator, which I'm afraid might be inadequate and that's why I went for the Thermochill, which is claimed to correspond to a 3 fan Swiftech.

I agree. The amount of heat going into your water will require significant airflow through the rads. You'll need to keep the air velocity low, which means lots of frontal area. There's no way you'll be able to make a small system anyway, and I'd consider a radbox with 2-3 cheaper rads.

Reading my own mail that I just wrote I'm getting more and more annoyed over the pump's total of $240.

That $60 lid for the dual pumps won't work with the other pump covers. Either buy regular DDCs with the dual lid or do your own plumbing between the pumps. I'd vote for the 2nd approach, because it will provide more head.

An Eheim 1250 is like 80 bucks but I guess very loud.

Not a good choice for your system, IMO. But a 1250 probably is no louder than 2 DDCs.

[Marci]

1 Alpahcool Laing DDC Dual attachement Hardwareluxx Edition $60 http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... s_id=20552

The above item doesn't perform as well as two converted pumps piped in series - ditch it from your plans.

[unimatrix0]

Nicoman, overall very nice choice of components.

Regarding the pumps, don't get the dual cover if you are going to get the modded DDCs, you are paying extra already for modded. BTW, modded means they come with the acrylic top, that's all. You could get the factory pump and then the acrylic top separately and it would be the same as the one at sharkacomputers.

There is another option for the pump, which is the Laing D5 (Swiftech MCP655). It has a potentiometer for adjusting pump speed. Speeds 1, 2 are very quiet. Speeds 3-5 are quiet but not suitable for silent (by SPCR standards). It's quite larger than the DDC. The D5 is more robust than the DDC, less vibration, less heat, less prone to damage from running it dry.

I've had both a modded DDC and D5, so this is my experience. I'm thinking you might get away with one D5 at speed 5, which may be as quiet as 2 DDCs even if flow is not as great as the 2 DDCs. Like you've probably already read, high flow isn't necessarily desired. And hey, a D5 runs for about $70 so that would be a giant leap from costs.

Like hammersandwitch mentioned, I'd also be concerned about the rads. I think if you get a dual rad, and a single rad like you suggested you should be fine and if you can fit them it'd be great. I don't think the Thermochill 120.2 PA is equivalent to a 3 fan Swiftech, where did you find that? just curious. Make sure you check Thermochill dimensions, I think it's much bigger than comparable rads. You might want to get a Black Ice for the single rad, it's a bit thinner than the single Swiftech.

www.mcmaster.com has similar clamps and a zillion other things for much cheaper. They come in packs, about 20 reusable clamps for $5. Great service, they credit any unused returned part.

[n00btard]

I don't think the Thermochill 120.2 PA is equivalent to a 3 fan Swiftech, where did you find that? just curious.

it was somewhere in XtremeSystems.

[Nicoman]

Thanks again, I would be making mistake after mistake if it wasn't for this great forum. This has been by far my best forum experience, not only in terms of helpfulness but in skilled advice.

The pump part has always confused me to be honest. The DDC looks odd and I never quite understood how it was supposed to daisy-chain, but thought it would be obvious once I got it. There is also a version with a big acrylic reservoir like top that I wondered about. Anyway, glad that's sorted out.

About the D5, I've noticed it has a 1/2" barb. I assume I can't pull 3/8" tube over so that implies an adapter somewhere. I've actually also read that it's quite noisy here and there, as you say, especially at highest setting.

I found that info on Thermochill on their own site, so I guess it should be taken with a pinch of salt. http://www.thermochill.com/pa1202.php

I think I need to do more research on the pump/rad part, it all feels a bit too much like guesswork right now. It would be most helpful if someone could develop on the whole pump capacity/flow versus radiator size problematic. The more flow the more turbulence the more cooling right? But the temperature of the water is solely dependant on the radiators, so from what I can understand (and the way I interpret all of your advice) it's more important to have enough radiator surface as long as there is a flow. So what stops me from running a D5 at speed 2? Risk of to slow flow or even still standing water? Zds showed that with even slow flow you still only have a few degrees difference in the loop. Am I missing something?

The McMaster place was simply amazing, they must have a warehouse the size of Pentagon. On the other hand I guess most of the stuff they sell is tiny (actually let me correct that, I just saw their ductwork section). Thanks for the tip, I found many many things of interest. Another day, another lesson.

[n00btard]

the "adapter" for the D5 is one of the two:

1) a piece of 1/2" tubing over the barb, with a 1/2"~3/8" reducer on the inlet and outlet

2) you CAN pull 3/8" tubing over it, but it requires heating up the tubing, a lot of cussing, lots of time and a lot of patience.

"daisy-chaining" refers to placing them in series, to minimize any flow-loss due to block restrictions.

I dunno much about the whole pump thing, other than the "flow doesn't matter for the most part" thing.

[unimatrix0]

Nicoman, I'm glad we are helpful to you, I gotta admit there are lots of great people on this forum (some dissapear once in a while but still)

There's a guy doing some extremely dedicated project with its own blog and everthing who posted some real life measurements on flow restriction on several components including the Apogee block and Black Ice radiator and others using a DDC. http://virtualrain.blogspot.com/2006/09 ... ultra.html
His DDC is the 18w version though, which is really noisy, more noisy than the D5. But it's interesting to see the flow restriction that one Apogee imposes on a loop, might give you an idea on what 4 of them might do...

BTW, I've run my rig with a D5 at speed 1 and 2 with no real noticeable temperature uprisings, which is a suggestion that as long as water is moving, it'll cool the system.

[Nicoman]

I'm in the process of hopefully making my final purchase list but do have a couple of quick questions I need to clear out.

1) How much liquid is needed? I guess I could try to calculate this based on tube length (which I'm also guessing at though) volume , radiator volumes etc, but I have a feeling some of you could give me a gut feeling that would be pretty close.

2) I've understood that Thermaltake isn't highly regarded for some reasons, but what what is your take on this unit? http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... 521c580a50 Apparently it has been discontinued so I guess it had some issues and I may not be able to get hold of one, but I really like the idea of being able to monitor the water level from outside. This is the only solution I've found that doesn't mean a reservoir in a 5.25" bay (which I understand means more frequent refills). Any suggestions for alternatives? It also included a T with temperature sensor that although smaller than 3/8" inside could be moved to a T with proper flow.

3) And while I'm at it, I found yet another Thermaltake gadget http://www.xoxide.com/xcontroller.html If it is comparable to the fanmates in functionality (and precision) it would be convienent to access fan speed adjustment from the outside. Any good reasons to why I shouldn't replace the 4 fanmates with this one?

[unimatrix0]

Hey, if you wanna monitor water level, water temperatures and fans and since you'll be aiming at quiet I suggest you get the bigNG. It's the best all-in-one controller of its kind. A very good reason on why you should do away from the manual fan controllers is that the bigNG will automatically regulate fan speed according to your settings. It can also monitor water temperature and I think there is an add-on for water levels. The other great feature is that, in addition to being able to configure or monitor with software, the unit can function independently from the PC. You can control 4 devices and monitor 6 temperatures, and there is an add-on to expand those figures. It’s really amazing, I recommend it. The only catch if any is that support isn’t that great, but other than that, it’s great.

The Thermaltake product isn’t that bad, the reservoir is quite big though, I’ve had one of those (in my early days ). It’s a great way to ensure the pump will never run dry but I found it hard to fit it on my case. The other thing I’m weary at is the LCD screen. Those get broken quite easily. I’ve been through a manual fan controller with an LCD screen, and most of those things are cheap quality build, which get broken easily. So that would be the biggest disadvantage in my opinion.

Regarding water, get as much as you can! Distilled water runs for about $1 at my local supermarket, don’t know if it’s that accessible where you live…

[Nicoman]

Thanks, I'll look into the bigNG.

The reason I'm so thrifty with the water is that MCT-5 costs 21 bucks per quart so if I need a gallon or more it really adds up. (That's $21 per Liter for Europeans.)

[unimatrix0]

Why don't you get something like this: http://amazon.com/White-Rose-Distilled- ... urmet-food

And this: http://www.petrastechshop.com/peg11coadb4o.html

Or any car anti-freeze. You'll save quite a bit I think most of us are weary premium watercooling coolants. zds, hammer?

[Nicoman]

Ooh, I like, that was definately in another price range.

[rhuebner]

That MCT-5 stuff is way overpriced, and not really all that great anyway. Don't put too much into the non-conductivity... normal distilled water is equally non-conductive, and both will become slightly conductive anyway once in use, due to absorbing a bit of copper ions.

The veteran's favorite liquid is normal distilled water from the supermarket (Arrowhead steam-distilled, etc.) plus 5% Zerex (or Valvoline) Racing Super Coolant. This is not the same as Zerex Antifreeze... car antifreeze will work, but not quite as well as it's diluted with anti-freeze and anti-boil ingredients which do no good in a computer loop. The Zerex Racing Super Coolant is basically just corrosion inhibitors and biocides (anti-algae/fungus/bacterial), plus some trace ingredients for pump lubrication, surface tension reduction, and supposed thermal transfer improvement (these last 3 being rather unproven; it's the first 2 that really matter).

Distilled water is the best-performing coolant available (and it's cheap, too). The Zerex RSC adds just the things needed to keep your loop clean and shiny, with the minimum dilution of the water. A 4 oz. bottle of Zerex RSC goes for about $4.50, and at 5% mix in distilled water will make 2.5 quarts for about $2 a quart, total. Many people also add a few drops of (non-alcohol) iodine for a little extra bio-protection; probably not necessary, but it's basically free and won't hurt.

The only complaint people generally have about the Zerex RSC is that it's pink. Those with windows and UV lights will want something a little... cooler looking. But if it's hidden inside a case, and/or you care more about performance than bling, Zerex RSC is tops.

[autoboy]

I didn't read through this entire thread becuase it is rather long but I was under the impression that the Nvidia GTX cooler was pretty quiet. Quiet enough for lots of people here at SPCR. Are you really sure watercooling is the right way to go. It is a PITA IMO. I switched from water to air and i'll never go back. Sorry to come in so late with this news! Pretty cool thread. i'll have to read it all when i have time. Oh, BTW, i bet a Thermalright with the 92mm fan would fit on there without interference.

[Erssa]

Hi everybody,

I've been forwarded from the System Advice forum, as it seems as if my system is a prime candidate for liquid cooling. The below is a condensation of the info given over there.

I work from home with 3D visualization and recently invested in the below system:

Case: Cooler Master RC-810-SSN
Case fan: Antec 75012 All Clear 120mm
PSU: Tagan Topower 900kW
Mobo: Supermicro H8QC8 Quad Opteron
CPU: 4 x AMD 2.0GHz 870 Dual Core Opteron
CPU fans: 4 x Thermaltake TR2TT A4014 TR2 M1
Discs: Western Digital 36GB 10000RPM SATA
Western Digital 74GB 10000RPM SATA
Western Digital 400GB 7200RPM SATA
Memory: 4 x Corsair CM72SD1024RLP-3200 1GB
Graphics: XFX Geforce 7900 GTX Extreme

This sounds expensive, how much was it?
I have couple of questions. Wouldn't have professional graphics been better choise for 3D visualization then top of the line gaming graphics?

Ok, I know I'm not helping out here, but I would have considered buying Quiet-out-of-the-box Apple Mac Pro, it would have saved you loads of time and trouble considering how hard and expensive it is to silence this thing.

Apple Mac Pro with couple of 2.0 Ghz Xeons, 4gb of memory, 2 x 500gb HDs and NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB would cost ~5500$. In Anandtech review in September they tossed couple of Clovertown samples in the Mac Pro to get 8 cores running at 2.4GHz, so the Mac Pro could have probably been upgraded to 8 cores in the near future (Quad cores are released in November), those Xeons are faster then Opterons anyway.

Yeah I know it's already too late, and I'm not really contributing to this thread, but maybe a thing for consideration for someone else building up a server and reading this...

[unimatrix0]

Not to hijack your recommendation, but last time I went with Apple's pro tower line, namely G5, it was loud by SPCR standards. It was one of my first surprises, I just kept trying to perceive otherwise, but the noise was there.

Many argue that you can get same noise levels in watercooling with AC, and in some cases I agree. But those cases relate mainly to a single CPU with a passive GPU or maybe a gigantic GPU sink. Whenever two or more CPUs/GPUs are involved I think the mere elegance of water-cooling just can't be beaten by any current AC solution.

[Nicoman]

Hi Erssa,

So far it hasn't cost a dime (the water cooling part) as I haven't finalized the specs, but you're absolutely right in that the system was costly although not that much more than $5,500. The cooling will add abouth $6-700 though.

Professional graphics boards like the Quadra are mor expensive because they are accredited and tested with the major CAD applications etc. My line of of work is in design and visualization though, and there is no need to pay the extra cash for products that really only differ on the driver level. As for performance, the gaming boards are often of later revisions (since the Quadras needs to be certified etc etc) and run in circles around the 'pro' boards.

Mac is close to useless in my world of architectural visualizations as very few of the needed applications are available. Now a dual quad Intel would be something, but then again you have to catch the train sometime. It costs to stand still waiting at the station as well.

[Erssa]

unimatrix0: G5s were space heaters. I remember reading arstechnica review when the dual 2.5ghz G5 mac pros were released. The dual cpu version was watercooled and still the temperatures were ~75-85c. Far shot from the temps of the new Woodcrest Xeons. But I have to admit that I don't have any experience with the new mac pros, I just assume that they would be more silent.

Nicoman: Changing the Quadro to a Ati X1900XT would drop the price of the Apple config to ~4100$. Upgrading to quad core clovertowns in november and selling the 2.0Ghz Dual cores would have probably raised the total price for the rig to ~5800$. And if Mac is useless, just boot to windows...

But yeah it's a moot point, since you have already bought the opterons. I'm not trying to derail this thread, so I won't post on the subject anymore.

Looks like you've got hellova job in front of you, so I wish you luck in your quest.

[Nicoman]

unimatrix0, I've been reading up a little on the bigNG. It was even mentioned earlier in this thread but I never picked up on it. Now I think it might do what I need. I found your thread:

viewtopic.php?t=33372&start=0&postdays= ... 00d291bfb4

Did you ever do that review? That thread is about a month old now, did you ever get hold of a manual? I'm also wary with software based monitoring as I don't won't my system to go haywire in case the OS does. Interesting to see that bigNG lives it's own life. However, I'm not sure I want to dive deep into Samurize so the whole rigging part sends some alarm bells.

Was it reasonable to set up, temperatures, etc? Any other experiences to share?

[unimatrix0]

Haven't done the review yet, but it's planned somewhere down in my queue (not that that many requests I guess?)

As far as I know there is still no manual for the bigNG. At this point, I'd have to rate it as a geek's toy, I don't think it's a retail level yet. As previously mentioned, the bigNG can function on its own independently from the OS. That means you can unplug the USB cable and it'll keep working as if nothing happened. I usually keep it connected with the software closed.

Set up was relatively fine, it could have been better if it had the manual to indicate that the sensors are to be plugged vertically rather than horizontally. The software isn’t perfect but it’s the most advanced of its kind. You’ll have to do some firmware updating which is buried in their forums. So overall support isn’t that great, you’ll need to do some research to get answers.

The other thing you should know is that even though the bigNG is advertised for use with pumps, it isn’t fully truthful. I was using it with a DDC which draws 10W (the bigNG supports up to 20w per channel) however the bigNG’s heatsink was near 55 degrees when using the DDC at 8 volts! This means that if the device is rated anywhere above 8w and you undervolt it, the bigNG will release heat like crazy. Sure, mcubed says it can endure up to 80 or so degrees but I mean, I don’t see a point in undervolting the pump if energy will be wasted as heat, I’d rather run the pump at 100% (and thankfully the DDC is near silent at 100%).

Aside from the negatives, the thing is near a dream for control freaks (like me). The bigNG comes with 2 digitals sensors and 4 analogue, and 4 channels (where you plug the fans), and you can assign any sensor/s to any channel. You can set linear or exponential or any sort of custom curves on the channel voltage vs temperature. So for example, I have the chipset, CPU and GPU temp sensors assigned to the rad fan channel. If any of the chips go above 39 degrees C, I have the fan jump to 65%, if they go above 45, jump to 85% and above 50 degrees, 100 %. In between those, the graph is linear, so the jumps will be gradual.

Overall I consider it a must-have, once it’s up and running it’s a pleasure to deal with, pros way outweigh cons, so that’s why I’m recommending it. Hope that helps

[markot86]

Hey Nicoman,

I know those processors have a TDP of 95W, and I know your system is a beast, but before you go off purchasing all this water cooling stuff that may or may not be quiet enough for you, I'm still not convinced that this system cannot be quietly cooled on air. I mean, what you're looking at as far as watercooling prices are concerned could theoretically be as much as 5x more than a comparable aircooling solution and may not even work to your satisfaction. Remember, your system is being sufficiently cooled by air right now; while making it silent may be impossible, cooling it very quietly on air may be much easier than you think.

First of all, I feel like with 1 radiator, watercooling will not guarantee that your system is being sufficiently cooled; that system is a beast as far as thermal output is concerned; you will have trouble regardless of whether you cool this thing with air or water, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Multiple radiators may be required, and multiple radiators = multiple fans = just about the same issues to deal with as air cooling. I know you have 4 fans on that PA radiator, but from my experience with watercooled rigs, push-pull only nets about a 2 degree C difference; more radiator area however helps quite a bit.

Before you go off purchasing anything, make sure to make a list of a comparable aircooling setup. I have a strong feeling that something like 4 HR-01 towers (which would probably fit on your mobo since they can be oriented in two different directions and are fairly slim in one of those dimensions, although the upper left position looks slightly problematic) with a yate loon on each at 5-7v would cost 160 dollars with shipping and not even require you to remove the mobo for installation. While I can't guarantee that these will sufficiently cool your processors, i have a feeling that your max load would be somewhere in the 50 degrees C range if you put the fan on 5-7v, well within operating temps of the processor. If you can undervolt the processors through the mobo, that may give you a 5-10degree drop, making this even more feasable.

Exhausting the air out of that case may be a problem, but I feel like its feasable if you can mod that case so that you can fit 3-4 120 mm fans up top

Since I have a feeling your system won't be completely silent, I wouldn't even bother with replacing the fan on the 7900gtx since from what I hear it's pretty quiet.

Basically, for 250 dollars, you could outfit yourself with a fairly beastly air cooling solution that may be all you need to have a quiet pc and have a lot less maintenance.

I know people here will tell you that once you get a watercooling system up and running there is no maintenance, but I can tell you from my experiences and many of my friends that those who tell you this are either lying or are incredibly skilled at watercooling set ups. With that many components and that many points of discontinuity, you will get leaks and you will run into problems. Now, i don't know about you, but the possibility of leaks in a 5500+ dollar system is scary to me. Because maintaining a watercooling system is such a pain and takes so much time, you will lose time that could be spent working, costing you even more than the initial price for setting up the system.

Watercooling is generally reserved for the crowd that solely uses their computer for fun, not for work. Keep in mind that if you are working on something, get a leak, and your computer dies, you have essentially not only lost the computer but you are also hurting your income.

Most of my friends who have tried watercooling (including myself) have gone back to aircooling because of the pain associated with watercooling and the ability for aircooling to sufficiently cool computer components. Even though your computer does seem to be a candidate for water cooling from a thermal standpoint, the number of things that could go wrong and what's at stake seem to vastly outnumber the benifits of watercooling, especially when a smart aircooling solution may be sufficient.

[zds]

The reason I'm so thrifty with the water is that MCT-5 costs 21 bucks per quart so if I need a gallon or more it really adds up. (That's $21 per Liter for Europeans.)

I've been running on just plain extra-purified water this far, the one sold for car batteries. Whatever problems it causes, after two and half years I am still to see any.

However, now I have few liters of Alphacool Tec-Protect reserved for the next fill-up. It costed me like 10 euros per liter, so it's not overtly expensive.

But anyway, it's hard to make a bankruptcy by buying water-cooling liquid.. You should get far with just few deciliters. The loop itself needs only a tiny amount of liquid, so most of it will sit in your reservoir so its size determines the need. If you use like 10mm tubing (a bit over 3/8", I think), one deciliter is able to fill like 1.3 meters of tubing with a single deciliter of liquid..

So one liter/quart/something will for sure last for a while.

[zds]

Basically, for 250 dollars, you could outfit yourself with a fairly beastly air cooling solution that may be all you need to have a quiet pc and have a lot less maintenance.

I think you are overestimating the need for maintenance and risk of the leaks. Air cooling is not maintenance-free either, and as it's working a lot closer to its cooling potential, you actually need to check it more often in many cases. For example heatsinks tend to gather dust, which can easily rise the temps like 10-15 degrees. Naturally water loop can also gather crap, but as the baseline for the temps is a lot lower, it will take a lot longer for it to matter.

This far the only maintenance I have needed is to change the water every year or two, and it's not so big deal. Granted, swapping hardware in and out is harder with waterblocks everywhere, but in this particular case there would be *four* massive heatsinks about, so I find it hard to believe it would be more pleasant to swap anything than with four miniscular waterblocks..

So whatever route is taken, this beast is pushing beyond the limits of a normal SPCR system and need for care equals that.

Naturally leaks can occur, but based on my experience you are a lot more likely to just fumble a glass of water/lemonade/wine over the machine and kill it with that than properly clamped water loop to leak a drop. Water tubing is not rocket science, the tubes and clamps for keeping water and air separate have existed for like thousands of years..

Ie. if you manage to make a leak, it was *you* who did not do it right, not the materials and tools being experimental. And with enough pre-study and care, the risk is below any normal house-hold levels.

[n00btard]

However, now I have few liters of Alphacool Tec-Protect reserved for the next fill-up. It costed me like 10 euros per liter, so it's not overtly expensive.

is Tec-Protect dielectric?

[zds]

is Tec-Protect dielectric?

No idea, and frankly it does not matter to me. Whatever fluid I run, I do *not* want it in contact with my electronics. The reason why I plan to use this instead of plain extra-purified water is that it should protect me a bit better against corrosion and algae.

Here is manufacturer information page for Tec-Protect. Clear