Nforce4 plans - need clearance info & your thoughts.

Michael_qrt · Post by **Michael_qrt** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:41 pm

I've been looking into a NForce4 system recently and have been having much the same problems as everyone else when it comes to planning a quiet system that's capable of overclocking a 939 3200+ to around 2.4GHz.

Basically I havn't found any motherboard I like everything about. I really like the layout of the DFI ultra board except the positioning of the chipset is possibly a deal breaker since it sill only accept a low profile sink. I'd love a board that had the features and layout of the DFI except with only 1 PCIe x16 slot and about 3 x1 slots above the graphics slot (basically put the graphics slot where the seccond faked x16 slot is currently). That would leave plenty of room for the chipset above the graphics slot behind the small x1 slots. We would all be happy (well I would).

I hope that made sense as I don't think I described what I meant very well.

Oh, and another trend that's been annoying me is that all of the well featured "enthusiast" boards are using the more expensive SLI chipset. I have no interest in SLI and want a good well featured ultra board with a good layout. With the SLI boards I feel that the layout is often cramped and awkward and I'd feel as if I'm paying extra for a feature that I have no interest in.

Interitus · Post by **Interitus** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:36 am

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lookie here! Check the picture post near the bottom (the one with 14 pics)...

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... TMP=Linear

And Michael...

MSI's NF4 Ultra is out now...as well as Chaintech. Try looking into those.

nici · Post by **nici** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:06 am

I will also be buying a nF4 board and A64 3200+.. I really like the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum, but it only offers memory voltage up to a wimpy 2,85V

The probelm with that is, im going to run TwinMos Speed Premum memory, and these are very,very voltage happy with the Winbond UTT chips. 250mHz at tight timings, but you need 3.5V.. look at this info from this article http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=1641&s=1

1T/2T Timing: 1T
Cas Latency: 2.0
Ras to Cas Delay (Trcd): 2
Ras Active Time: (Tras): 5
Row PreCharge Time (Trp): 2

Anyway, i have to decide on either the MSI and just settle for standard 400mHz DDR or try and get the DFI LanParty and get crazy memory performance but have to figure out how to deal with the chipset fan.. The fan on the MSI is more easily fixed. A low waterblock may fit, or a passive heatsink with some pins cut off so the graphics card can go "thru" the heatsink..

Im hopeless am i not? I cant have a computer without OCing it and im obsessed with silence..

Interitus · Post by **Interitus** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:54 pm

you could always get the OCZ DDR booster?

nici · Post by **nici** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:23 am

It says on the OCZ site that the booster wont work with 24pin PSUs, dont know why. They have a compatibility list here , and the Neo4 is not supported and neither is the a8n-sli to name a few. I could always volt-mod the board, but i have still not found anyone mentionening their neo4 Vdimm over-volting success/disaster.. Someone did mention its the same as the nF3 boards, but havent searched into that yet. Oh well, i still have the weekend to think about this. I have been using crappy laptops for over a week now and need a proper computer..

Interitus · Post by **Interitus** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:46 am

bah didn't know the booster wasn't compatible with 24-pin systems.

be careful with vdimm mods. I read a few posts at Xtremesystems that said if you vmod the chipset to handle the voltage increases better that the increased 3.3v is killing Winchester on-die memory controllers right and left. might be something for you to look into.

nici · Post by **nici** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:07 pm

Yeah well, i gave up on the idea of DFI + the twinmos memory... Apparently loads of other people got this combo, and now the shop says that the memory has compatibility issues with DFI nF4 boards. So now i know i dont need 3.5V for the memory after all.. That leaves me with the OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev. 2 memory, its about as fast as the twinmos but 105€ more expensive

2.85V is sufficient for that memory though. But on the other hand, i could just save 300€ on the memory and use the PC3200 i have and get a A64 3500+ and 6800GT with the money saved.. Or just get 6600GT and 3200+ and save some money. Too many options, and it hurts spending money on a computer. Just a piece of advice, dont blow your PSU and mobo.. my 2600+@2300mHz and 9800Pro OCd isnt yet completely outdated though, so i might just end up getting a new Socket-A mobo. They are cheap now and i would save a shitload of money. Actually, i think thats what ill do eventually.. Thanks for the help

ever noticed how typing things down clears up your thoughts..?

Michael_qrt · Post by **Michael_qrt** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:58 pm

Hey, I just thought of something. I wonder if you can just use the lower PCIe x16 slot on the DFI board for the graphics card. Then it would all fit nicely. The passive chipset cooler, the vga silencer, it would be perfect.

Time to go check the online manual.

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:12 am

Michael_qrt wrote:Hey, I just thought of something. I wonder if you can just use the lower PCIe x16 slot on the DFI board for the graphics card. Then it would all fit nicely. The passive chipset cooler, the vga silencer, it would be perfect.

Time to go check the online manual.

Im pretty sure you can but using the lower one with a big GFX cooler like the new zalman 700 will probably limit the use of the regular pci slots

Interitus · Post by **Interitus** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:32 am

Michael_qrt wrote:Hey, I just thought of something. I wonder if you can just use the lower PCIe x16 slot on the DFI board for the graphics card. Then it would all fit nicely. The passive chipset cooler, the vga silencer, it would be perfect.

Time to go check the online manual.

Let me know if this is a possibility, but I thought you couldn't use the 2nd slot unless it was for SLI. This would definitely put my interest back into the DFI board.

nici · Post by **nici** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:21 pm

Im feeling lazy, so i wont bother checking.. But it has DXG(Dual Xpress Graphics) wich means you can have two cards in there, and use four displays. but nVidia have taken actions to stop it from working in SLI.

I am really, really temted to get the DFI board, a 3200+, and some OCZ platinum Rev.2 memory and a radeon x800XL(if they ever become available here).. But that adds up to 950€ wich is 1200$ at the current rate, so i think i will keep my current setup for a while still.

Just get a A7N8X-E Deluxe (87€) to replace the broken A7N8X Deluxe and maybe even get a Phantom, though it is really expensive compared to other PSUs. Cheapest i have found is 160€ wich is 200$, and i dont want to risk warranty by ordering from abroad.

Michael_qrt · Post by **Michael_qrt** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:19 pm

Hey, DFI's site seems to have gone down for me, from right when I was trying to download the manual.

There seems to be a dearth of information on what can be done with the board in all of the online material I've seen (reviews and previews). But I think that the seccond slot will only run at x2 speed. I was hoping that maybe the jumpers allow you to switch them around or something, but I havn't been able to find any info on it.

I'm a bit confused as to the arrangement of the PCIe slots on the DFI board in general though. I mean there is a x4 slot a x1 slot a x16 slot and the seccond x16 slot which seems to run at x2. I thought that the NF4 only had 20 PCIe lanes, and one of the gigabit ethernet ports is running on PCIe too I think. So how does the x4 slot work? it dosn't add up.

Anyway, if you were able to mod the ultra board to SLI or if you got the SLI board then you could run the 2 x16 slots at x8 each and use the bottom one for graphics.

If anyone finds out anything more then please let us all know.

Smoken Joe · Post by **Smoken Joe** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:32 am

There are some who have gotten the ultra d's to work in SLI at full speed.

I have the DFI nforce4 board you should take a serious look at that one. Right now the CPU heat sink fan is off as well as the CPU fan with tems in the 30's. DFI also has a feature that allows you to program in your save and choise of bios settings quiet or overclocked the nforce4 boards also allow you to change settings on the fly though as usual thoughs can be buggy. I have one of those orange yate looms blowing on the chipset fan.

System specs:
LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D R.A02
AMD 3200 90nm
Bios 2/1/05
DDRAM OCZ 3200 Plat Revision 2
OCZ powerstreem 520
Zalman 7000Cu
XFX GeForce 6800 GT

I would consider the x800xl when the price goes down as it usees less power and might be cheaper. I would not get two sticks next time as one 512 seem enough and overclocks better. Gskill would be my first choice they were out when I bought mine. The XFX is not exatly quiet either I will be fixing that though even if it requieres watercooling.

Best overclock right now is 2.6 and highest stable FSB 300 with both sticks! I am suprised how quiet the OCZ is though there is some bearing noise if I hold the 6800's fan to quiet it.

Interitus · Post by **Interitus** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:52 am

Well I took the plunge today.

A8N-SLI and A64 90nm 3200+ are on the way.

Final system build looks like this....

Antec 3700BQE Case ( have it, grills cut out )
Seasonic SS 460w Power Supply (ordering from the egg and a M1BX swap)
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe w/ Zalman Passive chipset cooler
Athlon 64 3200+ (gonna try to hit 2.4ghz, FX-53 speed)
Thermalright XP-120 CPU Heatsink
2x512 OCZ Platinum Rev 2. PC3200
PNY Geforce 6600GT w/ Zalman ZM80D-HP VGA cooler (gonna fit a 120mm on the side to cool the chipset and card)
Samsung Spinpoint 160gb HDD (IDE for now, will upgrade to SATA when the new Samsungs come out)
NEC 3500A DL DVD Writer
Sony? 16X DVD-ROM/48X CD-ROM (rebadged Sony I'm pretty sure)
Zalman ZM-MFC1 6 channel fan controller
3x120mm Yate Loon Blue LED fans (D12SM-12)
1 2x24 Character Drive Bay LCD readout screen

Can't wait

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:49 pm

Looks very good Interitus, we have similar taste

Ive got new parts arriving this week for a new project too

Many bits from current rig but its still a major overhaul

Complete System will be this:

Antec 3700BQE Case (AcoustiPack™ BQE3700 Kit)
Papst 120mm 4412FGL ( @ 5v Front)
Enermax Noisetaker 485W PSU

DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D
Zalman ZM-NB47J Northbridge Cooler (probably to be hacked!)

Samsung SpinPoint 160GB SATA
NEC ND3520 DVD±RW

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0 GHz (@ 2.5ghz+)
Thermalright XP-120 CPU-Cooler
Nexus 120mm Fan

OCZ (2x512MB) PC3200 Dual Channel Gold VX EL-DDR (@ 250mhz 2.2.2 3.2v+)

Nvidia GeForce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3
Zalman VF700-CU Quiet Copper VGA Cooler

PCI - M-Audio Delta DiO 2496 + Hauppauge WinTV Go (only if i can fit GFX into primary pci-x slot which is an aim)

Rest of stuff connected to PC

Logitech Dual Optical Mouse + Mouse Skatez on Func 1030 Mouse Pad
Logitech Internet Keyboard
ED 3D Glasses + Plantronics A90 Headset
5.1 Hifi with Rel Q50 Sub (im into DnB)
Logitech Momo Force wheel + Act Labs GPL shifter
IIYAMA Vision Master Pro 454 + Panasonic AE300 Projector

Interitus · Post by **Interitus** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:33 pm

Yep we do hehe.

Post some pics of your chipset cooling with the DFI and the 6800GT. I'd love to see what you come up with and who knows I might switch later

joeyjojojr · Post by **joeyjojojr** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:19 pm

Long time lurker. Hi all.
I too, like so many, been debating on the quiet nforce4 motherboard of choice. As mentioned previously, the Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-SLI nForce4 board pictured here http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=241795 has passive cooling on the chipset. But for the life of me can't find a review of the board itself. Another option that has not been mentioned is the ECS KN1 Extreme nForce4 Ultra pictured here http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=243849 . I know, I know...it's an ugly mutha. Reviews are available http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/re ... BhZ2U9Mw== though and more interestingly if you go to that link you can see the position of the HSF on the chipset. Should not interfere with the PCIE 16X card in regards to replacing it. You would of course want to remove the fan on the backplate as well (gimmick). Now this board isn't a mad overclocker like the DFI, but follows the Nvidia Nforce reference pretty closely per review. ECS gets a bad rap sometimes, but honestly, I've owned Gigabyte, Shuttle, FIC, Asus, and Abit and the two ECS boards I owned were one of the few that gave me no problems. Remember, behind Asus, their the second largest motherboard manufacturer in Asia (don't know what the H-E-double-hockey-stick that has to do with a motherboard being reliable except that they probably know a bit about making motherboards). Oh yeah, and it's cheap (as in inexpensive). Would love to hear if anyone has gotten this board and modded it without difficulties.
Cheers

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:04 am

Interitus wrote:Yep we do hehe.

Post some pics of your chipset cooling with the DFI and the 6800GT. I'd love to see what you come up with and who knows I might switch later

here is a pic i just took, bottom slot for me

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:38 pm

V3n,

Great pic, I have the same setup but havent assembled it yet. Have you had any chance to measure chipset temps with the Nb passive cooler yet? Also, do you have a fan of some kind running nearby?

I am curious what kind of 3Dmark03 or other 3D scores you might be getting at X8.

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:03 am

velvet45 wrote:V3n,

Great pic, I have the same setup but havent assembled it yet. Have you had any chance to measure chipset temps with the Nb passive cooler yet? Also, do you have a fan of some kind running nearby?

I am curious what kind of 3Dmark03 or other 3D scores you might be getting at X8.

chipset temp is 40 and nexus fan on the front of BQE blows across it

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:25 am

just connected the DFI chipset cooler to my fan controller and its not noticeable at 5volts but at 7 volts its the loudest fan in the system above the BQE fan at the rear of the case which im gonna remove if i can ever get a globe

@ 5volts it might be worth leaving the dfi in and checking out the temps and 16x pci-x performance over the 2x of the bottom slot

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:41 am

v3n,

macman, has stated that the bottom slot can be jumpered to 8X (similar toSLI) even if the top slot is empty. His 3Dmark03 scores were within 97% in that configuration.

still it might be worth a try to run the stock cooler at 5V in order to use top 16X slot.

nici · Post by **nici** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:44 pm

velvet45 wrote:v3n,

macman, has stated that the bottom slot can be jumpered to 8X (similar toSLI) even if the top slot is empty. His 3Dmark03 scores were within 97% in that configuration.

3% could come from anything.. If you run 3dMark several times, rebooting before each run, you can still have a larger difference in results than 3%..

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:15 pm

I'll try it out with the pencil mod and see if my 3dmark score improves

Mongoose49 · Post by **Mongoose49** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:49 pm

Well i just bought the
Antec P160,
AMD +3200, xp120
nforce4+4 mobo:Gigabyte NF4-K8NF-9 non sli (cost $120) whose actually gonna use it?
(apparently the xp120 does fit see http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... =GA-K8NF-9),
Corsair 2x512 cmx
A Seasonic SS 400w
3 nexus 120 mm fans
Samsung spinpoint 120gig

no vid card as yet
The mobo was a huge toss up between the asus a8n and the gigabyte, but because i want to wait for the ATI version of sli to use the 850xt i wanted a super cheap mobo and this gigabyte board according to link (see above) gives far better OC'ing possibilities than the asus.

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:04 am

Done the pencil mod and changed jumper to sli mode and got 8x pci-x on the lower slot

got a 2k increase in 3dmark 2001 from 22k to 24k just with that mod

added coolbits and it chose a overclock on GPU and got to 26k in 2001

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8439246

tried 2k3 and went from 11k to 13k

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3724333

macman · Post by **macman** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:00 am

v3n wrote:I'll try it out with the pencil mod and see if my 3dmark score improves

Just FYI. You don't need to do the pencil mod to get 8x in the lower slot. It's just the jumpers.

Interitus · Post by **Interitus** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:11 am

Great stuff V3n

I might have to try that out later with the DFI.

For now all my parts are on order already.

A8N-SLI Deluxe w/ 3200+ 90nm (coming tomorrow from Monarch)
PNY 6600GT w/ Zalman ZM80D (have these already)
Super Silencer 460 and NB47J (on the way from Newegg, prob Tuesday)
XP-120 (got it 2 days ago)

It's not going to be anything stellar from an ingenuity (sp?) standpoint, but I do have one small mod. I went to the hardware store and saw they actually had the same style HDD mounting grommets as used in the BQE and Sonata. I bought several of these (at $1.27 a piece ouch) and some 4-40 1 1/4" sheet metal screws with matching nuts. I took them home and cut the grommets in half with a hobby knife. The sheet metal screws are the exact same size as the ones that come with the ZM-OP1 fan for the ZM80D only about 1/4" longer. Couldn't find any 1 1/2" ones. These are just long enough to go through the closed mounting holes in Yate Loon fans. So I slid the cut grommets over the screw and voila. 120mm Yate Loon fan screwed into the Zalman ZM80D

I also mounted one of the Yate Loon's on the XP-120 without cutting the closed corners. I was skeptical about this, but I picked up the XP-120 by the fan and it didn't even budge so I probably won't cut the closed corners out. The brittle plastic on the LED versions of the Yate Loon's kept me from attempting a hackjob on them since I didn't want to mess up my fans by them cracking. Also didn't want to risk dull scuff marks from a rotary tool on the clear plastic.

Will post in the Gallery when I get it all done. Should be about a week though.