New A64 system, quiet and value for money

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:14 am

First post here after many hours of reading in this excellent forum.
I'm choosing the components for a new, quiet system and would really like some advice and/or coments of more seasoned system builders.
I'm using it for Office, internet, downloading and some gaming. It's in the livingroom and on for allmost 24/7. No structual overclocking.
All my picks so far are chosen with value for money in mind.

(1) MB: Epox EP-9NPA+ Ultra or Asus A8N-e. No need for SLI but would like Firewire that A8N-e is missing (need extra PCI-card). Replacing HSF with ZM-NB47J.
(2) Proc: 3000+ (145 euro) or 3200+ (185 euro). Is the 3200+ worth the extra 40 euro?
(3) HSF Cooling: Arctic Freezer64 with Fanmate. I know the XP-90/120 with Nexus fans are better but they cost more than twice as much. Is this more value for money?
(4) Graphics: XFX 6600GT (170 euro). The A800XL is so pricey in Holland (300 euro)... Standard cooling will be replaced with VF700 Cu or NV Silencer. Pro's/cons against any of these?
(5) Mem: Corsair 2x512 DDR400 Value Select (145 euro) or Twinmos 2x512 DDR400 CL2,5 (87 euro!) Again, is Corsair worth the extra money?
(6) HD : 2x Samsung Spinpoint 160GB. Is it worth waiting for the new Samsungs?
(7) DVD-RW: Nec 3520A. Any drives that are much more silent?
(8) Case: Antec SLK3000B with 2x Nexus 120mm. Would I need Fanmates for those? Is it worth waiting for the P180 (as it would be much more expensive)?
(9) PSU: Nexus NX3500-SE (67 euro), Forton/Source FSP400-60THN (75 euro) or Enermax EG375AX-VE (63 euro). No sign of Seasonic at all in Holland. Any suggestions on this?

All comments are more then welcome! And again, great site!

Sam Williams · Post by **Sam Williams** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:47 am

Welcome to SPCR!

Those choices look pretty good... I would consider the following:

1. Order only one Nexus 120mm, and grab a Fanmate for it. You really shouldn't need all that much airflow in the 3000B with these components, but if you buy two, you'll be tempted to use two.

2. The XP-90/Nexus CPU cooling package would probably be worth the extra outlay.

3. Unless you're in love with the P180 aesthetically, don't wait for it; it'll blow a chunk out of your budget plans.

4. Think about mounting options for the Nexus fan and the Spinpoints. There are plenty of threads on this topic; personally I'd go for grommets on the fan and elastic suspension for the drives.

5. AndrewD has recently posted his A64/3000B build in the gallery section; definitely worth a read.

I'm sure other suggestions will be forthcoming shortly; enjoy the ride...

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:25 am

Thank you, Sam, for the warm welcome

I think I can go with only one Nexus fan, indeed. I can always buy another one if it is needed.
I am also convinced now that a SLK3000b is good enough.
What about the motherboard, memory and PSU?

yeha · Post by **yeha** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:11 am

have you considered the soltek k890pro? passive chipset design (the via chipsets put out far less heat than nforce3/4), seems to have all the ports you're after, about the only thing it couldn't do is run clockgen for changing htt inside windows. regular multiplier/voltage changes using the usual windows tools seem possible though, through cool'n'quiet functionality.

i'd say go with the 3000+, as 200mhz is not worth 40 euros. also go with the cheaper twinmos memory - expensive memory is good for overclocking, but at stock speeds there is no difference at all.

m0002a · Post by **m0002a** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:22 am

yeha wrote:have you considered the soltek k890pro?

I purchased one of these and I am having problems with the on-board Ethernet. Sometimes it does not connect at all, and other times it only connects at 10 mbs (with a 10/100 mbs 3COM card using crossover cable).

Other people have reported similar Ethernet problems with this board on this forum. The outcome of my situation is still in progress (working with Soltek support and have RMA'd my first board), so I will let everyone know what the resolution is.

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:34 am

@yeha

Soltek boards are not available in the shops in Holland. Is there a big difference between the two motherboards I proposed?
I am willing to go for the Twinmos memory and the 3000+.
Any thoughts about the PSU's?

@m0002a

The Soltek is not an option because of availability in Holland.

yeha · Post by **yeha** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:35 am

that's not good news at all. hopefully it's fixable with a bios update.

after googling a bit it seems the k890pro ethernet issue is a very common one..

m0002a · Post by **m0002a** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:47 am

I applied the latest bios (3/15/2005), to no avail. Soltek has turned this problem over to Realtek, so I am not very hopeful. I can add a 3COM 10/100 card, but I hate to use my last PCI slot (other one is filled with SB Audigy 2 ZS). The introduction of PCIe cards (other than video) seems to be several years off.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:00 pm

tollo71 wrote:(1) MB: Epox EP-9NPA+ Ultra or Asus A8N-e. No need for SLI but would like Firewire that A8N-e is missing (need extra PCI-card). Replacing HSF with ZM-NB47J.

I am quite happy with my MSI RS480M2-IL. It has passive chipset cooling. It has a firewire port on the back and one firewire header for a case front port. There is no overclocking possible with it though and it is a micro-ATX board. So if you want to use more than two PCI cards, it won't fit. It was only ~€110 at http://www.komplett.nl/.

tollo71 wrote:(2) Proc: 3000+ (145 euro) or 3200+ (185 euro). Is the 3200+ worth the extra 40 euro?

For the office and browsing work, you wil not notice the difference. Don't know for sure about the gaming, but I doubt it is really noticable.

tollo71 wrote:(3) HSF Cooling: Arctic Freezer64 with Fanmate. I know the XP-90/120 with Nexus fans are better but they cost more than twice as much. Is this more value for money?

The XP-90/120 might get it cooler, but what is the use of that? I think you won't be able to hear the fanmated freezer64 when it sits inside a case.

tollo71 wrote:(4) Graphics: XFX 6600GT (170 euro). The A800XL is so pricey in Holland (300 euro)... Standard cooling will be replaced with VF700 Cu or NV Silencer. Pro's/cons against any of these?

I only use onboard graphics, so no personal experience with this. But I have read several posts about people replacing their NV Silencer with the Zalman cooler and being more happy with it.

tollo71 wrote:(8) Case: Antec SLK3000B with 2x Nexus 120mm. Would I need Fanmates for those? Is it worth waiting for the P180 (as it would be much more expensive)?

I'd try with one case fan first too. And definately get fanmates for them, they hardly cost anything and are so usefull. The P180 will probably be about as expensive as the P160 or maybe even more expensive. Plus there is absolutely no guess as how long you'll have to wait.

tollo71 wrote:(9) PSU: Nexus NX3500-SE (67 euro), Forton/Source FSP400-60THN (75 euro) or Enermax EG375AX-VE (63 euro). No sign of Seasonic at all in Holland. Any suggestions on this?

If that Enermax is a noise taker (I can't keep all the type numbers of Enermax seperated), then go for it. If it isn't, go for the Nexus, but the Nexus NX-4090 is tested as a more quiet PSU. I don't have a problem with importing a PSU, so I will take the gamble that the OEM version Seasonic SS-301HT is at least as good as the Tornado. Going to order it here next monday. (€59 shipped to NL.)

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:29 pm

Hello Tibors,
Thanks for your input. I've read a lot of your comment in different topics and so far considered them very helpfull.
I consider buying a lot of my stuff at www.azerty.nl, except for the Epox. This is only available at komplett

fot 132 euro.
I already saw you mentioning the german web-shop in some other post and i am very curious about the outcome. Too bad that the Seasonic are not available in Holland....
The Enermax I mentioned is indeed a Noisetaker (Azerty) but based on all the good reviews here I would like a S12.
I think I wll go with a 660GT with the VF700 or maybe the passive Gigabyte version.
I share your view on the CPU cooler and will probably go with the Arctic Cooler. Big overclocking is not my goal anyway.
I will take the SLK3000B indeed.
Any advice for HD and DVD-RW?

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:30 pm

Tibor,
I also have interest in the Seasonic PSU's. Sadly, sending from Germany costs 20 euro! Too bad you're already orderring next monday. A bit too soon for me, probably.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:34 pm

I "need" two PSU's so that softens the shipping to only €10 per PSU, plus the 301 is only €39 to begin with. Per PSU that is cheaper than any other quality PSU I have seen.

It's been over a year since I bought an optical drive and that market moves way to fast. So I don't know about the currently availlable drives. In the HD market a lot has changed in the last few months, so I'm out of touch there too. Plus I wouldn't even know how to fill a 40GB disk with data. I'll probably go with a notebook drive next time I need a new one.

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:29 pm

Tibors, I get your point.
Can you keep us, Dutch people, updated on this matter? Would be very nice if we could also easily purchase those Seasonic PSU's....

Anyone else: any reccomended DVD-RW's? Other remarks?

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:25 am

Tollo71, I advise against using only one 120 mm fan in the SLK3000B and passive nForce4 chipset cooling. The airflow would go from the side vent to the back fan, almost bypassing the NB47J. I have a Thermalright NB-1 as chipset cooler (with 45x10 mm fan at ~4,700 rpm) for Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe and the rpm of my front case fan (Antec Tricool ~900 rpm) has a clear influence on chipset temps (I have a thermal probe touching the bottom of the NB-1). I also recomment to get the VF-700: I have an Aerocool VM-101 on 6600GT and load temps are dependent on the speed of my back case fan (Enermax ~1,100 rpm), but the GFX cooling solution is silent, of course

.

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:42 am

OK, thanks for the advise Tzupy. I can order one extra Nexus fan. They don't cost that much and are always handy. This way I can experiment with 1 or 2 fans.
The VF700 also seems a valid choise. What do you think of the passive Gigabyte GV-NX66T128VP?
Whitch PSU do you use?

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:18 pm

I'm using the Neopower480, and under light load it's quiet enough for me, with ~900 rpm. Of course, a Seasonic 12-430 would be quieter... I recommend using a 24-pin PSU with a nForce4 mobo. I have read many complaints about 20-pin PSUs with my mobo, but I'm not sure if that applies to all nForce4 mobos. If I had the choice of the VF-700 over the VM-101, I would have chosen the VF-700 (it would have allowed a healthy GPU overclock). When your case airlow is low, a passively cooled GPU is not the best choice, at high load. At low load however, the 6600GT runs surprisingly cool, right now it's at 41C (only 300 MHz in 2D).
With a fan controller I can lower the fan speeds at low load and turn it about 15% higher when gaming - since then a bit of extra noise doesn't bother me, it's covered by the game music / sounds.

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:45 pm

Thanks again, Tzupy.
I'm pretty sure I go with the VF700 now.
Are you happy with the Asus A8N-SLI?

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:17 am

Overall, yes. But I'm not using any cards (sound, SCSI, tuner, etc). I read reports on Anandtech forums of people having compatibility problems when using add-on cards. My only complaint is that you can't overclock the memory at 480DDR or more with 1T. I don't expect that to be resolved with a BIOS update, probably the memory circuit is a bit too long and that's why you need 2T when overclocking. The DFI has a tighter approach and they allow a better overclock with 1T, but it's a nightmare when it comes to quieting the chipset cooler.

tollo71 · Post by **tollo71** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:51 am

I'm not into (big) overclocking. Maybe I''m giving it a try, but my main concern is reducing noise.
That's why I still consider buying the Asus 8NA-e or the Epox EP-9NPA+ Ultra. With these Mobo's I think it is relative easy to replace the chipset HSF.
Do you guys think it is worth waiting for the AMD Venice-core to come?
Same for the new and bigger Samsung Spinpoints? I need as much storage capacity as I can get, with a minimum of noise.

ilh · Post by **ilh** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:17 am

Tzupy wrote:The DFI has a tighter approach and they allow a better overclock with 1T, but it's a nightmare when it comes to quieting the chipset cooler.

Modding an NB47J to have a silent chipset cooler was far from a nightmare for me, even with a VGA above it. The fact that you can run your video card in the other slot with virtually zero performance loss opens up even more options. Why do you say nightmare?

(running comfortably at 240x10, memory at 2-3-3-1T@240)

Pétur · Post by **Pétur** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:51 am

Tzupy wrote:Tollo71, I advise against using only one 120 mm fan in the SLK3000B and passive nForce4 chipset cooling. The airflow would go from the side vent to the back fan, almost bypassing the NB47J.

Hmmm... I have taped the side vents and all holes on the front except those of the bottom intake. I run the stock case fan at the back at 5V, mounted using the zip-tie technique I learned here. I also have a Nexus 4090 PSU.
I can feel air being sucked into the case at the front, so I guess that means quite some airflow passing HDD, NB towards the back.
I still have mounting problems with the NB47J, but so far it has been stable and near-silent.

Peter

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:24 pm

@ilh: I would never do that to a chipset cooler, but it's just me...
After thinking about it, I believe that a chipset cooler with a copper base and thin aluminium pins ~2mm diameter (that could be bent or trimmed as needed) would be relatively easy to manufacture, and should cost much less than the Swiftech one.
BTW, I do envy you for the memory 240@1T.
Petur, have you tried to measure the temps of your NB47J? Stable for now doesn't mean stable forever... Although by patching the side vents, the airflow from the front would go over the NB47J, it would be better to find out how hot it gets (if it's properly mounted).

el_ · Post by **el_** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:00 pm

Venice core would be best default vcore is 1.35/1.40 but use more power than winchester cores?

Mobos with nforce4 chip are great for Venice core.

You would need to remove chipset fan on dfi lanparty ultra-D but many people have done this and seems to work great with your value ram.

with extra vdimm(memory still cool to the touch at 3.2volts) you can easily hit 2-2-2-5 with your memory timings and if everything is planned out well you will propably be able to overclock nicely when the system becomes dated. most hit 2.8ghz with the beta samples!

for powersupplies get the nexus since forton makes it me thinks.

Pétur · Post by **Pétur** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:05 am

Tzupy wrote:Petur, have you tried to measure the temps of your NB47J? Stable for now doesn't mean stable forever... Although by patching the side vents, the airflow from the front would go over the NB47J, it would be better to find out how hot it gets (if it's properly mounted).

Agree 100%
I just don't know what Speedfan is measuring on my Gigabyte K8NXP-9.
I have two temps that seem normal (temp 1 very stable, looks like case temp, temp 2 goes up with load, looks like cpu temp), but one temp looks very odd:
It shows a value (in Celcius) between 70 and 73, but although it goes up a bit with load (70 to 73), it can't be a true temp because it is at 70 as soon as I boot my PC, and stays there (+/-). If a temp goes from 25 to 70 in 15 seconds, it must change more... So I don't know what it is.
My NB47J feels quite warm, but I can keep my fingers on the bottom part of the cooler, so it surely won't be 70 degrees celcius

Note to self: write down the addresses of the sensors...

Peter
Peter