I did what everybody told me not to do ;-)

Got a shopping cart of parts that you want opinions on? Get advice from members on your planned or existing system (or upgrade).

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

knutinh
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:53 am

Post by knutinh » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:26 am

Mats wrote: The 7000 was the top contender 2 years ago. While it works perfectly for
cooler running CPU's, I'm not sure how it will work with a 630. The question is what you could use instead in that small case. :?
My craziest idea is a Thermaltake SI-120 with the fan between the fins and the base, possibly with a 120 mm hole in the bottom of the case. Still, I'm not sure about height of the SI-120....
Otherwise you could use a XP-120 instead since they seems to have the same height. Make sure you put the case so the bottom intake gets enough air.

Lycka till! :wink:
Are you saying that the XP120 is the same height as the Zalman 7000 or as the SI-120? To bad they cant make a SI-120 with flexible (or bendable) heatpipes :-) I actually thought of fitting a fan inside the heatsink as you propose. It seems that the heatpipes may be in the way thou

regards
k

knutinh
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:53 am

Post by knutinh » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:30 am

http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.asp?sku=310 ... w=detailed

could this be used? I think it is a cpu heatpipe-kit for the hfx passively cooled htpc. But it should work anywhere provided enough cooling area is connected to the heat pipes? Expensive though...

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:14 am

knutinh wrote:Pentium 4 Prescott Model 630 (3.0GHz) - Execute Disable Bit, EM64T (Extended Memory Technology 64), FSB800, 2MB Cache (Socket 775)
I guess this is it:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/script ... CorSpd=ALL
It has a thermal guideline of 84 Watt.

This means that my HTPC 3 GHz has slightly more output power than my office 2.8 GHz. In addition, speedstep (if implemented well) should give some headroom when < full load. From that line of thinking, I hope that the Zalman will do as good a job for the new as the old p4. Now, the problem is drawing out those 84W without heating the rest of the machine...
K.
Speedstep will not do much for you -- it only brings the clock speed down to 2.8 GHz, if all the requirements for its proper operation are met. But I suppose it is better than nothing. CrystalCPUID (a user-adjustable version of speedstep, see article on main site) is worth trying.

The fans on this case are not great, expect to change them. Also, the intake vent is poor, you might look into finding a way to enlarge that vent.

You do need the best HSF you can fit in there, but the height must be restricted to not much higher than the Z7000. Maybe go for the copper version. The weight should not be an issue because it mounted upsidedown -- ie, no cantilever force on the board. Also, make sure the finished HTPC is not sitting atop a hot component.

Finally, the small PSU that's included is rated for just 240W. It gets there OK, but noise was up to 36 dBA@1m in our test. More importantly, when the intake temp at the PSU fan reached just 26C (at 150W DC load), the fan had already ramped up substantially to 34 dBA@1m (up dramatically from 23 dBA at 24C & 90W). So to keep the PSU fan from ramping up, you will need to make sure that it is getting cool air. My trick here would be to flip the CPU 180 degrees so that its fan is facing the side, then cut open a vent on that side so that the PSU gets only outside air.

A bigger case and ATX PSU might be advisable.

knutinh
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:53 am

Post by knutinh » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:31 am

I have sent a question to Asus as well as Intel about the capabilities of enhanced speedstep, and Q-fan. Will report the results.

I got reply from Silverstone (very rapid, thank you) that max recommended cpu cooler height was 75mm.

The XP120 is 63mm thick, leaving only 12 mm for a fan. Perhaps using 4x 60mm fans? ;-)

The XP90 is 75mm, thicker than the XP120 and therefore out of the question.

SLK-948U is only 45 mm so it should fit nicely. Dunno if it will do any better job than the 7000, thou.


Perhaps use a XP120 With a silent 25mm thick 120mm fan, and remove the bottom plate? (or make a new one with a hole so the fan may stick somewhat out)

Will the XP120 fit otherwise? (width/height, motherboard)


regards
Knut

~El~Jefe~
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: New York City zzzz
Contact:

Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 pm

i think he bought intel based upon findings that are very old and obsolete.

the only thing that amd64 does slower is things that involved Vector calculations. Apparently, hardly a thing anyone uses or has used ever on this forum needs this that much.

but, besides that, amd, especially in the dual core version, blows the doors off anything intel offers right now. that doesnt even include heat and power issues.

He is making a dishwasher and reading up on it as if it's going to be the next Google cluster.

----------------
However, if he gets the cpu down to 2.8ghz, it shouldnt run THAT hot. it isnt a 3.4 and stuff. He did buy the most sensible intel chip for future proofing for 64 bit, plus the 2 meg cache is needed for intel. shrugs.

I would have used a 2.13ghz dothan though.

knutinh
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:53 am

Post by knutinh » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:56 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:i think he bought intel based upon findings that are very old and obsolete.

the only thing that amd64 does slower is things that involved Vector calculations. Apparently, hardly a thing anyone uses or has used ever on this forum needs this that much.

but, besides that, amd, especially in the dual core version, blows the doors off anything intel offers right now. that doesnt even include heat and power issues.

He is making a dishwasher and reading up on it as if it's going to be the next Google cluster.

----------------
However, if he gets the cpu down to 2.8ghz, it shouldnt run THAT hot. it isnt a 3.4 and stuff. He did buy the most sensible intel chip for future proofing for 64 bit, plus the 2 meg cache is needed for intel. shrugs.

I would have used a 2.13ghz dothan though.
Are you talking TO me, ABOUT me, or ABOUT someone else? As has been discussed earlier in this thread, I am purchasing a very specific PC to do a very specific task. I have gathered the best of information that I could find on the net, and made my choice from that. I will have to live with that choice, as I would have to live with any other choice. Now, if you can contribute with any information that the guy compiling this application can not, I am very interested...

with regards
Knut Inge

We should all be helping each other achieving the common goal (less acoustic noise) regardless of background, instead of negativity. In my view, this is best done by answering specific questions with specific (if possible) answers, and by trying to put one selves in the shoes of the guy asking for help.

knutinh
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:53 am

Post by knutinh » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:16 am

Since Silverstones lc11m proved impossible to find here in norway (reportedly, they are out of production??), and worries of heat/noise, I switched to another setup. By moving components between my current p4 desktop and a order for new components, I will end up with the following systems:

HTPC:
Silverstone lc16m
Asus p4p800-e dlx
Intel P4 s478 2.8GHz
thermalright XP120
PAPST 120mm 16.5 dB
2x512MB ddr-ram
Samsung p80 120GB
NEC dvd-writer
NorthQ PSU
MSI geforce 6600GT passive cooled AGP
Saphire thetrix ATI 550 analog tv/radio tuner
terratec T2 usb DVB-T tuner
Asus 802.11g usb network
M-audio audiophile 2496

Office PC:
Chieftec BX04
AMD A64 3000+ Venice
Asus nforce4 ultra mobo
zalman cnps 7000b Cu
zalman northbridge passive cooler
2x 512MB ddr ram
Samsung p80 120GB system disk
Samsung p120 250GB media disk
NorthQ PSU
Asus PCI-ex geforce 6600 passive cooled

None are "optimal", but based on existing gear, what is available here in norway for a reasonable price etc. Sadly, it seems that the european PC market is very different from the US one, and most reviews are from US websites (or german, and I dont speak german to well...). NorthQ is never mentioned in reviews, but they are easily available here, and focus on noise.

Hopefully everything will work out. I have MP working ok now with dual tv tuners and the saphire remote. Hopefully, I will work out something with the iMon VFD + remote in the Silverstone. I have read that it is not capable of controlling any other components, and learning remotes cannot control it.

best regards
Knut Inge

Sizzle
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:01 pm
Location: Saginaw, Michigan
Contact:

Post by Sizzle » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:39 am

I've been trying to tame my new P4 630 as well. The one review I have read of the new Enhanced SpeedStep in the 6XX line of P4's show no reduction in temp or power consumption when SS was enabled. Can't remember where it was from, it was not as extensive as a SPCR review though.

Anyway, I personally went back to Intel becaue I had too many nFarce4 incompatibilities with some of my hardware. I also like the Dolby Master Studio, it works much better then the X-Mystique Gold 7.1 at DDL with it's current drivers.

I did help a friend with a SFF box, very tough getting the cooling done well in such a small area for a Prescott.

Good luck

justblair
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:33 pm
Location: GLASGOW, SCOTLAND, UK
Contact:

Post by justblair » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:57 am

I have been playing about with an Athlon 2100 pally (75w) and a Athlon 1400 (bout the same)

Getting rid of large amounts of heat is possible.

Here would be my suggestion...

Get a big shelf cooler, the xp120 or also the Thermaltake typhoon. Mount a fan blowing up through the fins, then trim a 120mm square out the top of the case. mount the biggest fan that will fit to the underside of the cooler, and you will be left with an exposed protruding set of fins in a sexy alu finish. I think though I like the Typhoon, the XP120 would look better.

My experiance in the open air install I have is that this sort of install is that on idle the pally runs passive no problem(in a typhoon, the spacing in the XP120 looks more open), so I am guessing that only the mildest of fan cfm would be required to tame this... So any fan that can do low rpms reliably and quietly would do.

turn your other case fans round to pull cold air in and you should defo be ok for the rest of the case. If they are needed at all....

Why did you go for an intel again???

:twisted:

Only joking... I used to sell pc systems and experianced processor predudice all the time (Usually peeps demanding Intel). It makes no sense at all, you buy according to priority. Imagine a world with only one kind of car, one style of trousers, one kind of coat. The soviets got sick of that after a while!

cotdt
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 3:30 pm

Post by cotdt » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:11 am

Pentium4's are pretty easy to run cool and quiet, even the dual cores. But you can't just slap on a heatsink and be done with it like the A64, there's a lot more to it. But still, even two dual-core P4's can easily be cooled and silent if you know how. most people in this forum are not the DIY type and will tell you it can't be done, but in fact it is quite easy. it just depends on how much money and effort you're willing to put into it.

wisdomtooth
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Post by wisdomtooth » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:56 am

cotdt wrote:Pentium4's are pretty easy to run cool and quiet, even the dual cores. But you can't just slap on a heatsink and be done with it like the A64, there's a lot more to it.
That sounds like a contradiction in terms, friend.. If "there's a lot more to it" and if you have to put a lot of "money and effort" into it, by definition it's not "pretty easy." :wink:

I think most people's definition of "pretty easy" IS just slap a heatsink on it and be done with it. Can't get any easier than that! :lol:

Mats
Posts: 3044
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:54 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Mats » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:13 pm

I did what everybody told me not to do ;-)
Something maybe no one told you to do would be to wait for a 65 nm P4.
Yeah, you can always wait for somthing better, but when it comes to picking a CPU for a compact case like that I'd say it's worth it.
Well well, too late now huh?

justblair
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:33 pm
Location: GLASGOW, SCOTLAND, UK
Contact:

Post by justblair » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:59 pm

I personally think that is its not a challenge to do, then dont do it...

You will probably have to go to lots more effort to keep this cool, but with imaginative problem solving you could end up with a much more unique and cooler (perdon the pun) design.

Do the open top please, I just want to see the pictures!!! I'm a sucker of r ALU grilling of all types... Its a bit of a fetish actually...

And my case is too tall to get this effect, so I will just have to live my fantasies through the lives of others..

How SAD!!!

SST Guy
-- Vendor --
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:29 pm
Location: Taiwan
Contact:

Post by SST Guy » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:06 pm

knutinh wrote:Since Silverstones lc11m proved impossible to find here in norway (reportedly, they are out of production??)
The LC11M is still going strong as we now transition to all 300W models. I think maybe the place you inquired are mistaken the phase out of LC11M w/ 240W PSU?

autoboy
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:10 pm
Location: San Jose, California

Post by autoboy » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:56 pm

Anyone consider the Zalman Reserator or will it not handle a 85W cpu?Just move the heat out of the case with water and you can still have a tiny case.

knutinh
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:53 am

Post by knutinh » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:50 pm

SST Guy wrote:
knutinh wrote:Since Silverstones lc11m proved impossible to find here in norway (reportedly, they are out of production??)
The LC11M is still going strong as we now transition to all 300W models. I think maybe the place you inquired are mistaken the phase out of LC11M w/ 240W PSU?
Then I think you should give your norwegian distributor a call... Silverstone lc11 is possible to obtain, but lc11-m is not available in any of about 50 reputable web-shops. I ordered mine in a EU-based web-shop, but even they couldnt find me one...

regards
Knut

Post Reply