Case/Cooling for Dual Opteron 280 PC

[SMRGroup]

I've got this insane idea of building a PC with two AMD Opteron 280 or 275 dual-core CPUs on a Tyan K8WE motherboard, but I'm a bit stuck on the choice of cooling and case to get the best performance/noise trade-off.

I don't really need a totally silent PC and don't expect one with those two processors, but I don't want it to sound like a jet engine either.

The Tyan is an extended ATX board so that limits the choice a bit - Tyan recommend the Silverstone TJ-03 Temjin Case which is highly thought of but a bit pricey at about £200 so alternatives would be welcome.

Also on the subject of CPU coolers, it seems a pair of Zalman CNPS7700A-ALCU are the obvious choice, would the good folks here agree?

Thanks for any input!

[aitor]

I'm about to do the same thing, more or less. I was hoping to use the new Silverstone TJ07 but if I can't get hold of it in time (won't be available in UK until mid December) I'll probably get the TJ06, which got a good review here.

Also on the horizon is an ATX sized version of the K8WE - a Tiger rather than a Thunder. It has six DIMM slots so is less appropriate for my needs, but it does hold two opterons and thus could fit into a P180, although keeping it cool and quiet may be a problem.

I'm hoping to try air cooling first and if that's not quiet enough I'll probably get a Zalman Resorator.

[SMRGroup]

I'll probably get the TJ06, which got a good review here.

The TJ06 is on my short-list too but my environment is full of cat fluff so I'm concerned about the open wind tunnel design. The TJ03 has a filter on the front fan intake which might cut down airflow but will stop the innards becoming full of sorrel-coloured hairs.

Also on the horizon is an ATX sized version of the K8WE - a Tiger rather than a Thunder. It has six DIMM slots so is less appropriate for my needs, but it does hold two opterons and thus could fit into a P180, although keeping it cool and quiet may be a problem.

Six DIMM slots would limit me too, I was going with 1Gb Corsair memory - 2×1Gb sticks for each processor (four in total) to begin with, then when funds allow add more.

What did you have in mind for air-cooling, at least to begin with?

Also, a bit off-topic, but have you been able to find any Opteron 280s in the UK? I've just checked the usual suspects and they seem to have disappeared.

[klankymen]

sorry if i completely disregarded something in this post, i am not completely in possesion of all my senses right now, but this thread would probably be worth checking out for a dual opteron.

[SMRGroup]

sorry if i completely disregarded something in this post, i am not completely in possesion of all my senses right now, but this thread would probably be worth checking out for a dual opteron.

Thanks for the interesting link Klankymen.

There are a couple of differences in set-up I can see, the Opteron 246 isn't dual-core so will, I think, run cooler and I doubt passive heat-sinks like those Scythe Ninja would cope. The newer CPUs are less power hungry though so that's something I'd have to check up on.

In the fourth picture down it looks like the heat-sink is blocking one of the blue RAM sockets, which might happen with the K8WE board too. Would like to hear from Irianta on that one. Good-looking case though, that's definitely one to check out.

[Irianta]

There are a couple of differences in set-up I can see, the Opteron 246 isn't dual-core so will, I think, run cooler and I doubt passive heat-sinks like those Scythe Ninja would cope. The newer CPUs are less power hungry though so that's something I'd have to check up on.

I think the setup I have would work with dual 280 Opties just fine, actually AMD made their dual core processors fit the same thermal specs as their single core models, so if your system can handle a single core CPU it can handle a dual core CPU just as well. They kept repeating that over and over in the tech tour event.

Opteron 280 is specced at 95W maximum wattage, while c0-stepping 246 is specced at 89W. They're close enough that the cooling in my system should be able to easily handle the dual cores, especially since the 280 is E6-stepping core which will run much cooler than c0-stepping 246 on average despite the higher max. wattage. C0-stepping is pretty old and doesn't have any sort of power saving mechanism, so they run at high power at all times..

In the fourth picture down it looks like the heat-sink is blocking one of the blue RAM sockets, which might happen with the K8WE board too. Would like to hear from Irianta on that one. Good-looking case though, that's definitely one to check out.

The Ninja does overlap one of the memory sockets, but fortunately it's narrower at its base. There's enough room underneath the wide part that you can still use the memory slot, even though it looks like it's blocked. All eight slots are usable even with the Ninjas, at least with standard heigh memory modules. You might be able to fit those extra tall memory modules there, but the clips might get in the way.

[Irianta]

On the topic of cases, have you taken a look at the Chenbro SR105? It was on our list of candidates before we ended going with the SR107 instead. 105's internal design isn't as well suited for a dual-fanless-Ninja setup, but in return you get a case with smaller footprint that can take a power supply with a bottom-mounted 12cm fan such as Seasonic S12.

SR105 with something like a Zalman heatsink would probably work just spiffy.

[SMRGroup]

I think the setup I have would work with dual 280 Opties just fine, actually. AMD made their dual core processors fit the same thermal specs as their single core models, so if your system can handle a single core CPU it can handle a dual core CPU just as well.

Irianta - thanks for the reply, that's really good to know, some passive cooling would be really welcome because the case and PSU are already going to end up with more than enough fans noise-wise, it doesn't sound like there are any drawbacks of the Ninja approach.

Thanks also for the link to the Chenbro case, although they might be hard to find here in the UK I really like that design. I was considering a Nexus NX-5000 with its 12cm downward-firing fan because I've had a good experience with them in the past but come to think of it, 500W might not be enough juice... Which of the Seasonic S12 variants are you using?

[Irianta]

Irianta - thanks for the reply, that's really good to know, some passive cooling would be really welcome because the case and PSU are already going to end up with more than enough fans noise-wise, it doesn't sound like there are any drawbacks of the Ninja approach.

You're welcome

One thing to keep in mind is that while the Ninjas don't have fans on them, it isn't really a passive cooling. There are three case fans that provide all forced airflow, and two of those are situated so that they basically blow/suck through the Ninjas. That's why we picked the SR107: we'd need some kinds of case and CPU fans anyway, and with the SR107 we could have a single fan fulfill both functions.

With a different case you might not be able to rely on case airflow to cool the Opterons, so you'd have to find a different solution.

Thanks also for the link to the Chenbro case, although they might be hard to find here in the UK I really like that design. I was considering a Nexus NX-5000 with its 12cm downward-firing fan because I've had a good experience with them in the past but come to think of it, 500W might not be enough juice... Which of the Seasonic S12 variants are you using?

None. The SR107 can't take a PSU with a down-firing fan. We're using some cheap Fotrons that get the job done 'till something better comes along. I used to use a S12-600 in my old system, and it was very quiet. Unfortunately I have to get rid of it

I think a 500W power supply will probably do just fine, by the way...

[~El~Jefe~]

if he has such cash, the only solution I feel is a Zalman Reserator. String the two cpu's together in a chain, no northbridge or GPU on the link. then you could beat the crap outa them all day and it would be silent and well within temp limits.

I wonder what frames he could get with that and say a 7800GT.

[SMRGroup]

One thing to keep in mind is that while the Ninjas don't have fans on them, it isn't really a passive cooling. There are three case fans that provide all forced airflow, and two of those are situated so that they basically blow/suck through the Ninjas.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean the entire thing was passively cooled like a TNN for example, but the CPU heat sinks were passive albeit with good case airflow.

We're using some cheap Fotrons that get the job done 'till something better comes along. I used to use a S12-600 in my old system, and it was very quiet. Unfortunately I have to get rid of it.

So far I've built three PCs with various varieties of Nexus and they've all be very quiet, both in terms of fan and electrical noise. Admittedly they've been in modest systems without much stress, hence the question mark with the Tyan fully loaded along with a bunch of drives.

[SMRGroup]

if he has such cash, the only solution I feel is a Zalman Reserator.

I'd thought about that, especially now the Plus version is available (in black rather than that poke-in-the-eye blue). At about £150 it's not that expensive in the scheme of things when we're looking at nearly £900 for each processor.

String the two cpu's together in a chain, no northbridge or GPU on the link.

The Tyan motherboard has a Northbridge heat-sink so shouldn't need any additional cooling, but are you saying that two CPUs and a GPU would be too much for the Reserator?

I wonder what frames he could get with that and say a 7800GT.

That would depend on how many threads the game had, I don't play games but can't imagine many have four. This thing, when it gets built, will spend all day encoding/decoding lots of video, manipulating large graphic files etc.

[Irianta]

Admittedly they've been in modest systems without much stress, hence the question mark with the Tyan fully loaded along with a bunch of drives.

Aye, that's a good question... a fully loaded thing could get power hungry, though I've a Seasonic Power Angel in the outlet powering my system and while I'm writing this it's showing 205W power draw. If the PSU is 70% efficient, I think that means the system is drawing around 145W at idle.

I still think a 500W power supply would probably be enough to power even a more ambitious system. Even a 400W unit would probably suffice, though I'd feel truly comfortable with a 450W unit. Just in case.

[~El~Jefe~]

2 cpus and a gpu would not be too much for one. It would be close to it, but not exactly.

however you also havea northbridge. That deserves some cooling as well if it runs continuously right? I would run 2 zalman's on that system, one for north and gpu (or gpu's if you have multiple) and one for the cpu's. Then it could never be stressed ever. I would TRY all of them on one loop, it probably would work, but the mixture would have to be more water than additive to absorb all that heat quickly and at a high volume of absorbtion.

a crappy water cooler beats out a great air cooling system as a rule, and the zalman is moderately good for people who even OC their systems. I just wonder about 2 opterons plugging away all day, the cpu's are normally the largest sources of heat.

[aitor]

I thought I'd post here rather than ressurrect the thread I started a while back: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=24260; as this seams to be the dual opteron thread du jour...

I've started to build my system... not all the parts have arrived yet so I can't tell you whether it's a success or not. but anyway, here's the plan:

Motherboard: Tyan Thunder K8WE
CPUs: starting with a single Opteron 275, will add a second when necessarry
RAM: 4 x 2GB PC3200 DDR (registered, ECC). This gives me the max flexibility; I can expand the RAM & or add a CPU, and the ram will run at max speed because it's in pairs. There's a 40-50% premium per GB over 1GB sticks.
Case: Silverstone TJ06
Power Supply: Silverstone ST60F (modular, EPS12, 120mm fan)
Graphics: Gigabyte passive - can't remember model but its based on Radeon 800XL
Storage: will reuse an existing optical drive, and buy two WD Raptors, configure as RAID-1. Most storage will be on a server.

I was hoping to get a TJ07, but that case won't be available in time.

SMRGroup:
As I still don't have a running system (opterons are difficult to source at the moment, as you mentioned) I can't really advise, but observations so far:

Cat fluff: The TJ06 has a fine metal mesh behind the front vent, with holes about 0.8 mm in diameter. I think that might go some way to stopping the fluff. The mesh is screwed on so should be removable and cleanable. Also, if anything gets in hopefully it will stick to the tunnel rather than the heatsinks!!

Wind tunnel: The tunnel has less headroom over CPU1 than CPU2. I don't think a Scythe Ninja will fit, although I haven't got one to check yet. A ninja should fit over CPU2 (near the back), where there is easily 150mm clearance. I'm going to be using the stock cpu fan initially but will get hold of a ninja asap to test.

The wind tunnel has a removable panel which can be replaced by another larger piece labelled as being suitable for dual cpu set ups. It enlarges the footprint of the tunnel, but is useless on a K8WE; you won't be able to use the standard panel or the dual cpu one because they will interfere with the power cables. You could use the panels after cutting a hole in them though. However, I think leaving it open and using a fan on CPU1 that can blow air through the gap (say a Zalman with a 120mm fan) will help cool the rest of the case, although it may negate the benefit of the tunnel.

I'm a bit worried about the upper part of the case; over on www.k8we.com there are reports of the chipset overheating when there is poor airflow, and when using the wind tunnel you've got one 80mm fan pulling air in and then the fan in the power supply (ST60F uses a 120mm fan). There isn't quite enough space in the hard drive cage for a 120mm fan (if you cut a hole in the back between card slots and PSU) but you could mount on the outside, or use a smaller fan.

Maybe going for a passively cooled gfx card wasn't such a smart idea...

*potentially* I could get a 120mm fan behind the front 3.5" bays, which I'm not going to use. (replacing the 80mm fan). That would help bring more air in...

My back up plan is water cooling; I imagine this will be necessarry once I add a second processor anyway.

I'll post some pics once I've got enough parts to build a working system!