Work in Progress

diver · Post by **diver** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:59 pm

After lurking here for some time and many clicks of the search button, the time to post has come.

My objective is to build a fairly quiet PC, but it does not have to be silent. Mid range in cost, no difficult mods. Overweight heat sinks are out and drive mounting must be reasonably sturdy.

The system has been inspired somewhat by Ed Ng's.

Antec SLK2650-b for its small size. I will try the stock PS first. Several posts around here indicate that the second fan rarely comes on and removing it is an option. Likewise, I will see how the stock 1400 rpm 12 cm fan does. Some members here describe it as a leaf blower, others don't mind it. If it is too loud, a Nexus does not cost that much. Duct tape to be applied as needed. There will probably not be as much emphasis on cooling via the CAG (side vent) as I will not be attempting passive CPU cooling, at least on day one.

MB is the recent Abit KN8 SLI which could be called the son of the AN8 SLI. It was chosen for its NF4 chip set and passive heat pipe cooling. What little I could find on this board indicated that it lacks any major issues.

AMD 3800 X2 processor, Zalman 7000B cooler and 2 Gigs of A-Data ram as I need the extra power for video encoding.

Two Seagate 160 GB SATA 7200.9 single platter drives set up raid 0. These may not be as quiet as the best, but are quieter than most. Initially, I will try the stock drive mount and hope that is good enough. The case has room to mount both drives in 5.25" bays if necessary. So far I have found Seagate drives to not make annoying noise, but I can hear them seek.

Passively cooled XFX Geforce 6600 256 MB display adapter, similar to Ed's. I don't play games, but have run flite sim software from time to time.

Nec 3550 DVD burner, plus recycled parts for the rest of it.

Parts have been ordered, but did I miss anything major?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:50 pm

Greetings & welcome!

I would have made a few different choices: the Evercase 4252 is just as compact, and it has much better front intake air flow. The Zalman 7000 may be stressed a bit on the 3800 X2 (unless you can undervolt?) -- the Thermalright SI-120 or the XP-90 would be better?

The stock fan won't be loud, but won't be very quiet, unless you undervolt it. The Nexus is certainly a good replacement, but there are others, too. Ditto for the stock PS -- that's why I like the Evercase; you can choose a quiet PS to start with: SeaSonic or Fortron "Green" would be my choices. Ditto for the fan: start with a Nexus or low speed Yate Loon or some other decent fan w/ a FanMate or motherboard control.

Is RAID 0 really going to gain you anything? It certainly will make things easier to break...I'll bet some Raptors would be faster; if in fact the HD speed is a limiting factor?

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:08 pm

I would guess that in your setup the Zalman 7000 is the loudest component. If you'd use an Arctic Cooler Freezer 64 Pro (which is about the same price) instead, then the HD's would be the loudest.

depravedone · Post by **depravedone** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:12 pm

Actually, You'll be able to run the Zalman at a very low setting using the included Fan Mate controller. I would recommended loading the CPU down with two instances of Prime 95 "torture test" to see just how low you can get away with. If it will maintain 50C or lower with 100% load on both cores, you'll never need more cooling under normal usage.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:47 pm

depravedone wrote:Actually, You'll be able to run the Zalman at a very low setting using the included Fan Mate controller.

Did you notice he was talking about a 7000 and not a 7700 like in your system? And did you see the dBA figures for the Zalman and Freezer fans in the reviews? By simply picking another cooler of about the same price (which b.t.w. is also easier to install), he'll get a more quiet system. Seems like a no brain decision to me.

Firetech · Post by **Firetech** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:41 am

Edited due to stupid question

Sorry!

PS Where is the delete button

diver · Post by **diver** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:17 am

Nobody likes the Zalman 7000, boo. Looks like I can pick up an Arctic Cooling widget for $32 locally plus another $5 for the fanmate, yay. Main PITA is the Zalman would have to be sent back, that would be next week.

A no brain decision... (My brain was actually turned off while I decided that

Thanks for the tip.

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:36 am

NeilBlanchard wrote: Is RAID 0 really going to gain you anything? It certainly will make things easier to break...

Anyway. What is it with all these people in single user environments who think the pros of RAID 0 (speed) outweigh the cons (NOISE, data loss potential, heat generation, power consumption, cost, decreased airflow, etc.)?
Are we really that brainwashed by the corporations?

For the heatsink, I would go with an XP-90C (or XP-120 if it fits) and the 120mm fan of your choice. I shy away from products with integrated fans, because if it dies, it's more work (and perhaps more costly) than slapping on another fan.

dddibley · Post by **dddibley** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:45 pm

The 7000 is actually a good cooler at low rpm, although it has noisy 'harmonic' points when it's ramped up. Cu version should run a little cooler.

Actually looked at a 2650 last night. It had a SP-350S PSU (20 pin) with a single 80mm fan. The S is supposed to stand for silent? Some of their cases have the BQE designation (Black Quiet Edition) so maybe the PSU is different too. The side panel air horn can be removed and taped up if need be.

ddd

diver · Post by **diver** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:25 pm

As far as RAID 0 goes, I wanted to give it a try. I work with very large files. DVD's are 4.3 gigs, so the extra performance will be appreciated. The reliability issue should be contained by using single platter drives.

The power supply as delivered with my SLK2650-BQE is not the S model. It has 2 fans. I have heard of folks doing things like stopping the second fan with a paper clip. However, several around here say that the second fan rarely runs.

On the heatsink front, I am not convinced the Arctic 64 pro would be an improvement, after reading the review for the P4 version, the freezer 7 pro. An earlier version of the freezer did a little better than the Zalman 7000, but it is hard to find and not available from my short list of preferred suppliers.

Based on the objective numbers in the reviews, I would have to agree with those who feel the XP-120 is materially better. It also appears to be just about the only materially better alternative to the Zalman that weighs in at under 450g. However, it is also about $70 with a fan, including shipping. If I return the Zalman, the net cash after freight is less than $20, and I could still use the fanmate with something else, so the best alternative is to see how the Zalman does.

I have also noticed that endpcnoise relies mainly on Zalman 7000 and 7700 CPU coolers in their line of pre-built quiet computers. Not conclusive, but something to think about. True, they do a lot of stuff their own way.

I might hit this right on day one, or I might have to swap out this or that. So be it.

Firetech · Post by **Firetech** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:08 pm

Hey diver, it's your rig so go with your choices and ENJOY IT

depravedone · Post by **depravedone** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:26 am

Actually I have a Zalman 7700 on my AMD system, but a Zalman 7000 on my P4 System (3.0GHz Prescott) and the 7000 is able to be ran at about 1500 rpms with no problems and the cooling is quite good. (Run my 7700 at only ~1000 rpms)

As for noise with that cooler, I found that the factory mounting of the fan was screwed up and one screw holding the fan was loose. I replaced the factory screws with some new ones and the noise is gone. Its not nearly as quiet as my 7700 is but very quiet nonetheless. At least thats what my 35 year old ears tell me....

diver · Post by **diver** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:16 pm

The parts came in today. It is partly built, everything but the drives. It is running memtest right now, off a floppy.

I decided to RMA the Zalman 7000 and run the stock AMD cooler for a bit. The mobo allows the CPU fan to be run at reduced speed and jump to full speed at a predetermined temperature. Right now the stock cooler is set to run at about 1760 rpm and speed up at 60C. I don't know how often that will happen. It is quiet at that speed.

The power supply, a Smartpower 2.0 350 is very quiet when running on the internal fan as well. I don't know how often that will ramp up.

The stock case fan (12cm) turns out to be a 1600 rpm unit, at least after rechecking the Antec web site. At 12v it was very loud. I pulled the pins out of the connector and reconnected it at 5V. It is now very quiet, but I don't know if that is enough ventilation and I have no way to measure the RPM. To make a guess I would say if it runs 1600 at 12v it probably runs 900 at 5v. Anybody know a better way to estimate that?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:27 pm

Hello,

I would have kept the 7000 -- it is way better than the stock HSF... I did say it may be stressed by the 3800+ X2, but it would be better than stock. But, you can decide as you go along.

diver · Post by **diver** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:36 pm

The stock HSF is just there until I can establish a baseline. The 7000 is better, the 7700 is better than that and the xp-120 is better still, and so on. 45 minutes of memtest (one instance) only raised the CPU temp to 39c.

I want to check over in the Abit forums to see what fits.

depravedone · Post by **depravedone** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:51 pm

The overall cooling of the 7700 is just unbelievable. I'm able to run the system during normal (not gaming) use with only the 7700 and the video card fan running in the cpu chamber (Antec P180) and never exceed about 32C system temperature. I absolutely love the 7700. Some will claim there are better solutions out there, but they are too caught up in the "latest, greatest" jive if you ask me.

diver · Post by **diver** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:13 pm

Some guy on the Abit forum says a 7700 will fit. I can pick one up here for $35 or $36 (al-cu, pure copper is too heavy). Tests I have seen indicate 3c lower temperature at load and 1db less noise than the 7000 al-cu. This is places the 7700 in a somewhat better light than the reviews around here, but not wildly different. Also. it would be possible to run the fan at 80 or 90 percent of the "quiet" setting using the bios. Due to the low cost, it is a leading contender.

Also, some of the tests show the 7700 running equal to the xp-120 when fan rpm's are about the same. I suspect the xp-120 is quieter, but both are fairly quiet at at these levels.

diver · Post by **diver** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:16 pm

The Zalman 7700 was purchased this AM and installed with Arctic Ceramique. Idle temp is 32/33c, room temp is about 23c. That is about a degree lower than with the stock cooler @ 1700 rpm, and it is quieter. The fanmate was not used. Under bios control the 7700 runs at 900 rpm. The noise output seems fairly balanced among the various components. Nothing stands out and the total is reasonably quiet.

This was not a purpose built silent machine. In fact, it is pretty much a stock build. The only mod is running the Antec supplied exhaust fan at 5v instead of 12v. Drives are simply mounted in the stock rubber grommets. All built in ventilation is in use, including the CAG. The power supply came with the case. It is much quieter than my Dell 4400 which has a fanmate on the ducted cpu cooler/exhaust and resistors on the vga fan. The Dell has only one hard drive and a Northwood CPU that uses much less power than the AMD X2.

Windoze is running, and all the drivers seem to be working OK. The RAID thingie came together with ease. Application software to be installed later.

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:53 pm

Glad to hear it went well. You may want to consider hard disk suspension as a cheap upgrade to see if it lowers the noise level.

dddibley · Post by **dddibley** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:59 pm

diver wrote:The power supply, a Smartpower 2.0 350 is very quiet when running on the internal fan as well. I don't know how often that will ramp up.

Nice to see they upgraded the SP to a 2.0. The rear fan will only kick in if the case fans are set to low, to take up the slack. Either way, the fans seem to run slow enough, you can count the revolutions

Enjoy the build !!

ddd

diver · Post by **diver** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:57 am

I wired in the fanmate this AM. RPM went up from 907 to 970. Idle temp dropped 2 or 3c to 29. Its about 22 in here. Zalman 7700 fan sounded subjectively louder with the case open, but the system was subjectively quieter overall with the case closed. There may have a resonance or beat frequency involved here.

The bios fan control does not work with the fanmate.

depravedone · Post by **depravedone** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:43 am

The 7700 should be able to run with the fanmate at minimum at all times. It would be nice to have the motherboard header control the speed as well, but it seems unecessary to speed the thing up anyways. I find myself running Prime 95 or similar every day just to make sure I didn't imagine the results. I might need counseling.

diver · Post by **diver** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:12 pm

How about:

240 clock
2400 cpu
4x HT (960)
5:6 memory (ddr400 200 mhz)
slightly tightened memory from 3-4-4-8 to 3-3-3-8 and manually set 1t command rate.

Running 2 instances of super pi, after 15 minutes CPU temp is 43c. room temp is 22c. Second fan in power supply did not go on. The first fan never ramped up higher than 1200 rpm, which is not that much for a 8cm fan inside the case and blowing through the power supply.

50 minutes of video encoding produced a 39c cpu temp, with both cores running about 68%.

I think it is great that folks around here experiment and manage to build silent machines or "effectively silent" machines. However, I am into quiet computing for the masses. Their research filters down to guys like me.

diver · Post by **diver** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:09 pm

Finally, I have the bios fan control working with the fanmate for 880 RPM on the Zalman 7700. That exorcised the last vestige of noise from the CPU cooler. It is not possible to fine tune it. Some combinations work, and some do not. Memory @ 2.5-3-3-7-1T/200 mhz. Not bad for 1 gig sticks rated @ 3-4-4-8. By the way, 2400 mhz on the CPU is at 1.35V. All other voltages are stock, so it runs fast without the heat penalty from a voltage boost.

Other Thoughts:

I like the small size of the case under my desk, but it is hard to work in. If you are building a bunch of machines, use something larger. As a one-off it is OK. The second fan on the Smartpower 350 has yet to turn on, even during long video encoding sessions.

diver · Post by **diver** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:07 pm

Last week somehow the motherboard managed to go kaput. I received the replacement yesterday and put the system back together. I don't think the KN8 SLI is a bad design, but only that I had some bad luck.

While it was apart I removed the intake grille on the power supply, added a few strips of rubber in strategic locations to reduce vibration of the cover and back panel of the case. Cable routing was improved and a potential situation where one drive could bottom out on the metal drive cage was solved as well.

I am continuing to experiment with Speedfan and bios fan control to get the best results. The bios does not allow for much fine tuning, and the two do not work well together.

This issue of software vs hardware fan control saw some discussion in the Thailand thread as well.

Cool n Quiet was so bad I had to restore the system from a backup image. Crystal CPU ID works nicely, but I don't think I need it.

I tried to soft mount the hard drives on soft foam pads in the bottom of the case. While seek noise was greatly attenuated, overall noise at idle did not change by enough to justify the increased drive temperature and the ghetto engineering. The drives were returned to their stock Antec black rubber grommets.

diver · Post by **diver** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:48 am

I thought I would update this thread:

The Zalman has been replaced by a Ninja Plus. There is a cardboard duct to the exhaust fan, the CAG has been closed of and most openings into the case are open to let air in.

The stock Antec fan remains @ 5v, estimated speed is 740 rpm. Stock Ninja Plus fan (Adda) on a fanmate 2 and also 740 rpm. Stock Smart Power 2.0 remains, but the intake grille was removed.

Inside cover and inside top of the SLK2650 are lined with 2mm thick vinyl floor tile.

Drives (7200.9 SATA 160 Gig) are now suspended with Stretch Magic in the 5.5" bay area.

The VGA card burned up and was replaced with a 7600GT/ZM80D-HP.

The replacement MoBo (KN8-SLI) has been problem free.

Memory (A-Data 2x1g DDR400) now runs at 2.5-3-3-7, DDR433 resulting speed when FSB is at 260.

Various overclocking schemes, all of which are stable:
240x10, all voltages at default
250x10, 1.37/2.7/1.6 (CPU/Memory/Chipset)
260x10, 1.45/2.7/1.6

CPU temperatures do not go above 50C, even at 260x10 and a very warm 28C ambient, About 6C cooler @ 240x10.

If I ever set up with photo hosting, I will post in the general gallery.

cmthomson · Post by **cmthomson** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:03 am

You can host photos for free here: http://imageshack.us/

Work in Progress

Work in Progress

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Have Fun!!!