Tinnitus Guy Needs PC - Dell 5150 Desktop or Build My Own?

quid246 · Post by **quid246** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:51 am

I'm looking for a good PC, something that will do well with games, multimedia and of course general Internet.

As I suffer from intrusive Tinnitus that reacts to high-pitched noises, even on quieter PCs... I am looking for something that is super-quiet. I have a budget of around $1100 (pre tax).

The Dell's are supposedly quiet, but have never heard of someone comment on them first hand.

The other option I am looking at it is putting the PC in a closet (that backs onto my office) and just running the cables through the wall.

Any advice is appreciated.

Bob_the_lost · Post by **Bob_the_lost** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:03 pm

Dells are not quiet. The best option is to put the computer in a seperate room as you suggested.

Are you going to be building it or buying it prebuilt? I suspect from the dell comment that it's the latter.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:13 pm

I am looking for something that is super-quiet. I have a budget of around $1100 (pre tax).

My personal opinion is you should build your own. If you pay someone else to make it for you (ie Dell) inevitably a chunk of your money is going to be swallowed up as their profit. You will get a quieter computer with more appropriate components if you build it yourself. The PC-running-in-a-closet setup is less than ideal; need longer cables, drilling through the wall, closet may not eliminate all noise,etc etc.

Price up this rig:
Seasonic S12-330 PSU
AMD A64 3200+ (socket 939)
cheap socket 939 board (MSI K8N Neo4-F, Asus A8N5X, Abit KN8, Gigabyte GA-K8NF-9)
Scythe Ninja heatsink
Passive graphics card
Samsung Spinpoint 160GB (Nidec motor)
any optical drive
whatever case takes your fancy

The best option is to put the computer in a seperate room as you suggested.

Better than building a quiet rig yourself????

Are you going to be building it or buying it prebuilt?

That's what he's asking, didn't you read the title of the thread?

quid246 · Post by **quid246** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:25 pm

I'd prefer prebuilt... I pretty much figure that just about any PC is going to give off a fan noise that will aggravate my tinnitus overtime. So it looks like it might just be better to go with a Dell.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:27 pm

I pretty much figure that just about any PC is going to give off a fan noise that will aggravate my tinnitus overtime

It's actually not that hard to build a PC with no fans within your budget. But if you want to inflict pain on yourself that's fine by me.

autoboy · Post by **autoboy** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:35 pm

I wouldn't recommend any case that he likes the look of. Many cases have poor ventilation and small fans. Get an antec P150 and a scythe ninja heatsink with a nexus 120mm fan and you will be happy with the power supply and the case fans. Some motherboards make high pitched noise. You may want to start another thread on the board you end up choosing and ask if anyone had problems. Also, search these threads for it first. Picking a video card it the hardest part because really good ones for gaming are not passive. What kind of gaming do you do? Also, take a look at the recommended lists here and you will get a better understanding of what you are dealing with. Building a really quiet pc takes some time and research.

Bob_the_lost · Post by **Bob_the_lost** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:51 pm

jaganath wrote:
That's what he's asking, didn't you read the title of the thread?

Evidently not

I'd buy a prebuilt one and stick it in the closet, if noise really is that bad then stick some rigid fibre board inbetween the wall and you. This would be enough to remove the noise from almost any system, especially if you buy it with an eye towards the noise aspect.

If you need techsupport and can't do it yourself then buy a HP computer. (Not a dell, they all seem to use P4s, a bad idea in general).

quid246 · Post by **quid246** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:56 pm

Having read the responses and looked at the cost... I am seriously weighing a DIY box. Looks like I should really STFA.

Is a totally "fanless" box a real possibility, even with gaming?

Bob_the_lost · Post by **Bob_the_lost** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:58 pm

quid246 wrote:Having read the responses and looked at the cost... I am seriously weighing a DIY box. Looks like I should really STFA.

Is a totally "fanless" box a real possibility, even with gaming?

Yes, but it costs a lot more money.

Dropping the number of fans down is rather easy though so it's possible to just use one or two very slow 120mm fans which are effectivly inaudible (for most people at least).

mrzed · Post by **mrzed** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:00 pm

I think you need to more fully answer the question of what is "Good at games". The rest of the PC should be fairly straightforward, but a graphics card makes a huge difference in cost and heat (and thus silence potential).

A serviceable midrange system should be possible within you budget. It is also possible to build it with components that will not likely aggrevate your condition. With more details, people here can give you better advice.

If you can live with the inconvenience, and have ready access to a closet, it's not a bad idea. I did that at work with a monstrous Dell server that had to live in my space long ago. Went from intolerable to tolerable. If you go that route, you'll need to make sure the closet has adequate ventilation, and know that the room that the closet opens to will have some noise.

quid246 · Post by **quid246** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:07 pm

You guys are fast.

In terms of games... I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore gamer, but something that will give me decent performance on games like Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 2, etc. from time to time.

McBanjo · Post by **McBanjo** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:12 pm

Not totaly fanless but 1 undervolted case-fan and maby one in the PSU should be enought for lots of setups. Might be needed with 1 on the cpu as well.
Might not be the best possibly but should handle all games on the market without problems.
You might want to check out HTPC. Should be ok. Can't watch a movie with a hurricane and a jackhammer next to you

Dell is expensive. Build your own system THEN put it in the wardrobe

StarfishChris · Post by **StarfishChris** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:17 pm

quid246 wrote:You guys are fast.

In terms of games... I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore gamer, but something that will give me decent performance on games like Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 2, etc. from time to time.

Avoid the tiny fans on graphics cards like the plague. Check this thread of recommended graphics cards, if you don't run at massive resolutions the mid-card passive solutions should suit you.

Stjopatron · Post by **Stjopatron** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:20 pm

I recently installed a Dell Dimension 1100, Dell's budget range here in UK, and I was pretty surprised to find how quiet it was and well thought-out air flow with a total of only 2 fans (1 inside the PSU, 1 suspended & ducted at the rear - no fan in front or on CPU). It was not super-quiet, but enough to have made me wonder what's the point in still being member of SPCR. I did not hear any high-pitched whine, but you could buy the 3 yr extended warranty and cover the whole desktop unit with a thick blanket to keep it silent.

However, everything is so fantastic cheaply produced that I do not expect the system to last any longer than 2 years, even without a blanket. Also, the guy who ordered the mentioned desktop did not know what the specification CRT monitor meant and expected to receive a flat panel. Dell uses a manipulated product photo to trick its unsuspicious customers. Bastards.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:23 pm

I recently installed a Dell Dimension 1100, Dell's budget range here in UK, and I was pretty surprised to find how quiet it was and well thought-out air flow with a total of only 2 fans (1 inside the PSU, 1 suspended & ducted at the rear - no fan in front or on CPU). It was not super-quiet, but enough to have made me wonder what's the point in still being member of SPCR.

I recently bought a budget Dell as well (Dimension 2400) and it was actually that which motivated me to find SPCR! It certainly was nowhere near SPCR levels of quiet. Like yours, it only had two fans and a CPU duct, but the CPU fan was horrible, the hard drive was noisy and the power supply wasn't the best either. For the price I paid (£279) I certainly wasn't expecting too much, but I'm so glad I found SPCR and now have a near-silent PC (still using an old Maxtor hard drive which is a ******** to silence).

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:43 pm

quid246 wrote:As I suffer from intrusive Tinnitus that reacts to high-pitched noises, even on quieter PCs... I am looking for something that is super-quiet. I have a budget of around $1100 (pre tax).

I was under the impression that people with tinnitus need (white) noise sources to distract them from the ringing sound in their ears in silent environment. I know people who turn their TV on, with a shutdown timer, when they go to bed, because the tinnitus is too distracting in silence.

hester · Post by **hester** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:01 pm

I have had great luck with this small company out of Maine.

Very personalized.

www.onbinpc.com

"on bin" is Japanese for "quiet"

Good luck in your search,

H. Ester

computergeek22 · Post by **computergeek22** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:01 pm

There's a new Asus 7800gt that is going to be released which I believe is totally passive. If you're into gaming, you might want to look into that.

quid246 · Post by **quid246** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:30 pm

Erssa wrote:I was under the impression that people with tinnitus need (white) noise sources to distract them from the ringing sound in their ears in silent environment.

For some people, that works... other people have what's called "reactive" tinnitus in that noise (in my case white noise especially) can drive up the noise.

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:40 pm

well my first question would be "what do you want to be able to do with this computer"

if all you need is to websurf, check email, word processing, instant messeging etc, then you can EASILY make a fanless computer yourself that will be totally silent and very inexpensive

MB/CPU: VIA EPIA SP 8000 $240
Case/PSU: Casetronic C138 w/ 120w external PSU $155
RAM: Corsair 1gb DDR400 $80
HD: Samsung 40gb 2.5" SATA $75
DVD-RW: Pioneer Slim Slot DVD+-RW $90

Total: $640 +shipping

doesnt include a monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers etc. but those are a bit more personal choices.

The entire system could be run completely fanless. you could get everything you need under your budget, and it would be completely silent, and very small.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:41 pm

Aris, in case you missed it:

In terms of games... I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore gamer, but something that will give me decent performance on games like Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 2, etc. from time to time.

A VIA SP8000 is nowhere near sufficient to run the games he wants at a decent lick.

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:54 pm

quid246 wrote:You guys are fast.

In terms of games... I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore gamer, but something that will give me decent performance on games like Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 2, etc. from time to time.

Building a PC is the best solution but not the easiest solution for a quiet or silent PC. Some compromises must be made to balance out power and silence (or near silence). This would be my suggestion, and all prices are from Newegg.com for simplicity sake:

Antec SLK3000-B Black– Based on what many SPCR members have posted, this case has good ventilation. $49 + $19 shipping.

XG Magnum PSMG-500-B2 500W- First off I just want to state that I have no experience with passive power supplies. So why did I choose this 500W PSU? It is certainly not the cheapest listed at Newegg, and is more powerful than what you need. Why, not the FSP Group (Fortron Source) ZEN FSP300-60GNF-R 300W? Well, the Fortron has 2 bad user reviews out of only 3 reviews, and while the PSU is rated 300w, it may actually be less (250w ?). I base that assumption on a reviewhere at SPCR on the Thermaltake Silent PurePower Fanless W0029 350W who’s output is closer to 300w based on tests. That may not be the case for the Fortron, but it should be considered a possibility. The XG Magnum has a 24 pin power connector, while all the other cheaper silent PSU only has a 20 pin power connector. Many motherboards use the 24 pin power connector, there are cases where plugging in a 20 pin power connector into a 24 pin power connector will work, but that’s not guaranteed. The Forton does have the 24 pin connector though. The XG Magnum has a heat sink that sticks out of the PSU which should help with cooling. Again, I am assuming that actual output is less than what is advertised to be about 450w which is more than enough. Yes, it is unfair and I am probably wrong, but it’s best to be conservative. $140 + $7 shipping.

EPoX EP-9HEAI ATX- This motherboard uses the VIA K8T890 chipset, not the nVidia nForce 4 chipset. While the nForce is a more robust chipset, it also produces more heat, and the chipset typically has a fan. This motherboard runs fanless. You can always choose a motherboard that uses nForce and stick a big heatsink on it if you don’t mind doing a little bit of modding. $75 + $4 shipping

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM- Why did I choose this RAM, well based on the specs it is rated to run at 2.5 volts which is the lowest of all similar matches, it is also the slightly more expensive than the other RAM product based on my filter. If I remember correctly Battlefield 2 is a game that does greatly benefit from more RAM. You can always drop it down to two sticks of 512MB if you think 1GB of RAM is good enough and there are plenty of them that run on 2.5 volts. $185 + $5 shipping

GIGABYTE Geforce 6600GT GV-NX66T128VP- The Geforce 6600GT should have enough power to play games for the next 2 or 3 years at reasonable resolution and eye candy. There is a 256MB version, but it may probably just a little more heat due to the extra RAM. There are fanless heatsink mod kits for video cards, but this is a quick and simple solution. $157 + $5 shipping

SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series 250GB- Samsung is the quietest 3.5” hard drive you can get. Only notebook hard drives (2.5”) are quieter. You can get one, but I recommend having two hard drives for backing up data in case one fails, which has happened to me. $110 + $5 shipping

Pioneer Black IDE DVD Burner Model DVR-110DBK- It is rumor that Pioneer makes very quiet DVD burners which is why I picked this one. $44 + $5 shipping

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ “Venice” This 90nm CPU should give you enough “oomph” to run games for some time to come. There are two other versions of the 3200+ the older Winchester which does not have SSE3, and a “newer” version of the Venice CPU which appears to be the same as the “old” Venice. This link I provided is for the older Venice. What’s the difference? The newer Venice has a model number of ADA3200CGBOX, I’ve been trying to do some research, but I couldn’t find much. I read a rumor that this newer Venice chips actually has 1MB of cache, but 512KB has been disabled because it didn’t live up to expectations. The means that this particular version will produce more heat than the older Venice because those disabled transistors still draw some electricity. Another rumor is that the newer Venice is actually a failed Athlon 64 X2, so one core is disabled. This is even worse than the first rumor. $163 + $2 shipping

I think the Athlon 64 3500+ runs cool enough to run passively but hopefully someone can confirm this. Again, there are two Venice versions, so I would avoid model ADA3500CGBOX. $201 + $1 shipping

Scythe SCNJ-1000- This is commonly known as the Ninja. This heatsink is tall; 5.9 inches tall. It should be good enough to cool the A64 3200+, and maybe the A64 3500+. $40 + $6 shipping

Okay that should be just about everything. Hmmm… Soundcard…. While I would normally drop in an Audigy 2 sound card, but it is another heat source (though small), and may block a little bit of airflow. The on-board sound on any motherboard would sound “OK” but it’s nothing to rave about and does use a little bit of CPU resources. I’d say a discreet sound card is a toss up for a silent PC system.

I bought the Saitek Black Eclipse keyboard because the color matches my black case and monitor. The blue back light matches single blue LED front fan in my case. In terms of quietness, I think it is average; I merely bought it for cosmetic reasons.

I have a Logitech MX510 black/blue mouse that is no longer sold at Newegg.

Total cost for a silent A64 3200+ with 2GB of RAM and shipping cost and excluding a sound card keyboard, mouse and monitor is: $1021

Total cost for a silent A64 3500+ with 2GB of RAM, and 2 Spinpoint hard drives and excluding what was mentioned above: $1173

The only component that I have doubts about is the XG Magnum 500W PSU. It is clearly more powerful than what this silent PC requires, but it does have the extended heatsink sticking out of the back to help dissipate heat. However, it is only about $26 more expensive than a silent 350w PSU sold by Newegg.

Again, I used Newegg for simplicity sake. It is always good to visit other sites to compare prices and better components, namely the PSU.

If you actually do build a silent PC and it becomes unstable due to heat then add a Nexus 120mm fanto either the rear exhaust or the Ninja; experiment. In the worse case scenario add the Nexus to both rear exhaust and the CPU. $18 + whatever shipping cost is

quid246 · Post by **quid246** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:46 pm

Stupid, thanks for the lengthy recommendations and input. Going to sit down this weekend and decide what I might go with for a DIY unit. I think the chances of buying a Dell right now are quite slim... definitely more bang for the buck with a DIY system... and much quieter too.

Elixer · Post by **Elixer** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:34 pm

I like stupid's recommendations except for the power supply, and perhaps the ram. That power supply is a hybrid power supply and unless it has great ventilation it will probably spend more time with the fan on than off (in a not so quiet state). I would go for a seasonic S12-330 watt power supply. Read anything Mike-C has said about fanless power supplies and you'll understand that they're really only for low power, well regulated airflow systems. Especially if this is one of quid's first system builds (which I'm guessing seeing as he was thinking of buying a dell) I would recommend against it. As far as ram goes I would choose something with at least a little bit of a name brand. Sometimes unknown (and truthfully occasionally known) manufactorers over-spec things a bit. Maybe there's all kinds of great reviews for the ram circleing the net that I haven't seen, but I would go for a trustworth brand if nothing else so you can be sure to get some technical support and have an easy RMA should problems occur (though newegg is pretty awsome about it). Check amazon.com for the antec 3000B case, they often have a special on it for ~$45 shipped.

Slaugh · Post by **Slaugh** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:47 pm

stupid wrote:The only component that I have doubts about is the XG Magnum 500W PSU. It is clearly more powerful than what this silent PC requires, but it does have the extended heatsink sticking out of the back to help dissipate heat. However, it is only about $26 more expensive than a silent 350w PSU sold by Newegg.

Be careful about the Magnum, see this thread for more details.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:57 am

There are a couple of points I would like to make regarding the choice of PSU:

Read anything Mike-C has said about fanless power supplies and you'll understand that they're really only for low power, well regulated airflow systems.

Certainly, extra thought and care must be put into ensuring the case and PSU is well-ventilated when the PSU is fanless; but this being SPCR, I would hope and expect that most people are more attentive to good airflow than the general population. That said, and considering the OP's medical condition, the opportunity to go fanless should not be dismissed without extensive consideration.

1) The OP's system is unlikely to require the PSU to deliver maximum load for any length of time (see Mike's review of the Zen):

FSP Zen Review

REAL SYSTEM POWER NEEDS: While our testing loads the PSU to full output (even >600W!) in order to verify the manufacturer's claims, real desktop PCs simply do not require anywhere near this level of power. The most pertinent range of DC output power is between about 65W and 250W, because it is the power range where most systems will be working most of the time. To illustrate this point, we recently conducted system tests to measure the maximum power draw that an actual system can draw under worst-case conditions. Our most powerful P4-3.2 Gaming rig drew ~180W DC from the power supply under full load — well within the capabilities of any modern power supply. Please follow the link provided above to see the details. It is true that very elaborate systems with SLI could draw as much as another 150W, but the total still remains well under 400W in extrapolations of our real world measurements.

Given that the OP will not be implementing SLI, I think we can safely say the system power draw will be sub-250W.

2) The Zen (or other fanless PSU's like the Silverstone or Antec's Phantom) can easily deliver this level of power consistently, as their respective SPCR reviews have shown,

3) One of the downsides of passive PSU's is price. In that respect an S12-330 is a much more cost-effective choice.

Good luck with choosing the right power supply. You can always buy an S12 first and then swap it for a fanless if you find it aggravates your condition.

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:24 am

Elixer wrote:I like stupid's recommendations except for the power supply, and perhaps the ram. That power supply is a hybrid power supply and unless it has great ventilation it will probably spend more time with the fan on than off (in a not so quiet state). I would go for a seasonic S12-330 watt power supply.

Sorry, but the XG Magnum does have a fan. While doing a search criteria for PSUs at Newegg I used a zero (0) fan filter to list all fanless PSUs. Therefore I assumed the XG Magnum was actually fanless. The XG Magnum will run fanless up to a certain load, then the fan will kick in. I do not know how loud the fan is.

The Thermaltake Silent PurePower Fanless W0029 would probably be a better choice eventhough the actual maximum output is closer to 300W. This should be good enough for your needs.

Using the Thermaltake instead of the XG Magnum will truly make a silent PC. But airflow is a major concern. Without airflow heat will eventually build up within the PC and it will become unstable. This would be especially true when playing a game.

While the Seasonic S12 330 is not a fanless PSU, it is very quiet. The suction within the case caused by the fan expelling hot air should provide enough airflow to keep a low powered system cool enough.

Elixer · Post by **Elixer** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:29 am

This system certainly falls within the range that a fanless power supplies could be used. I would however still say it is a bad choice if the Antec 3000B case and the samsung hard drive is used. Firstly, because based off my personal experience with the 3000B I can say that my power supply runs fairly warm and it is fanned. If you wanted to saftly run a fanless power supply you would probably need to run a positive case pressure case. I couldn't see this being any quieter than a fanned setup with a S12 power supply. However, If the processor was undervolted and underclocked this might be possible, but he obviously wants to be able to do some decent gaming on the machine. The second reason is that a well built fanned system will fall below the hard drive noise (thus making there no reason to go fanless unless a quieter hard drive is used). In my 3000B, my suspended Samsung is the loudest component and I'm not running a fanless power supply. If a laptop hard drive were used I would see more merit in going fanless.

Quid is going to have to decide what it more important to him. A lot of compromises have to be made to take the computer from the fanned ~25dB @ 1m range to <20dB @ 1m (one fan) range. If you do go with a fanless power supply avoid the Thermaltake fanless power supply, it was tested here and had coil whine problems at some loads. Check the Recommended PSU section.

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:33 am

An alternative to the Antec 3000B could be the COOLER MASTER Centurion 532. This is the case that I bought for my upcoming rig. The entire front is a mesh design meaning that there is plenty of holes to let air flow into the case. The downside to having a mesh design is that it allows noise to exit the case which is a compromise for a silent PC. There are removable washable dust filters as well. Only one 120mm blue LED fan is included in the bottom front of the case. The fan draws in air and also cools the hard drive cage which can hold up to 3 hard drives. This is also a tool-less case so there is no need to breakout the screwdriver.

This case is quiet enough for me, but then again my intent is to build a powerful, but quiet enough PC. The guts of my current computer is in this case, Athlon Xp-M 2600+. But this will be housing either the A64 X2 4800+, or the upcoming X2 5000+ with a nVidia 7800GT. Currently the loudest part of the PC is my Seasonic S12 500 PSU. If I listen closely enough I can hear my Zalman 7000 HSF cooling my CPU. I have a mix of hard drives that are barely audible (at least to me). They are 160GB Western Digital 7200RPM, 160GB Seagate 7200RPM, and my oldest and ironically most reliable hard drive the 60GB IBM Deskstar 60GXP hard drive. These drives are more or less silent enough since I don't really hear them over the PSU and heatsink fans. Then again I concentrate of my attention to my screen.

The IBM Deskstar 60GXP is notoriously known as the "Deathstar" since that drive and the 75GXP had high failure rates, but mine has been going strong for the past 5 or 6 years. But that's another story.

As Elixer has stated, the most silent hard drives would be the 2.5" notebook drives. You'll need to by a kit so that it can fit in a 3.5" bay. They are more expensive, have a lower maximum capacity, and are generally slower than the typical desktop hard drives. 7200RPM notebook HDs are available, but they are also very expensive. The Centurion 532 does not allow for suspended HDs though.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:18 pm

Update?

Tinnitus Guy Needs PC - Dell 5150 Desktop or Build My Own?

Tinnitus Guy Needs PC - Dell 5150 Desktop or Build My Own?

Re: Tinnitus Guy Needs PC - Dell 5150 Desktop or Build My Ow

Re: Tinnitus Guy Needs PC - Dell 5150 Desktop or Build My Ow