Musings on a silent home server

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Al
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:48 am
Location: UK

Musings on a silent home server

Post by Al » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:10 am

This is just a vague outline of a possible project for the summer - I'd appreciate any feedback on feasibility, similar projects, recommendations etc.

I'd like to build a box which performs as many of these functions as possible:
  • ADSL modem (internal PCI card?)
  • Firewall
  • Simple web server
  • Printer server
  • Media storage + fileserver
  • Gigabit switch or hub
  • Wireless access point
  • Any other suggestions?
Goals for the project:
  • Keep the thing as quiet as possible
  • Keep the thing as compact as possible
  • Robust system - low maintenance once it's up and running
  • Remote administration from other PCs on the network
Hardware
I was hoping to condense this all down onto a mini-itx sized system. This is the kind of configuration I'm considering - although this is only based on about 20 minutes of idle googling so it is by no means indicative of the final system!:
  • EPIA MII motherboard with fanless 600MHz Eden processor
  • As much RAM as I need/can afford
  • Dual PCI riser with MRI-IDSL02 (ADSL modem) and HP NC150T (Gigabit NIC/4-port switch combo)
  • Netgear WG511T (PC Card 802.11g Wireless adapter)
  • Large capacity storage HDD; how does the sustained transfer rate of a normal 7200rpm drive compare to the limits of a Gigabit LAN?
Now as far as a boot device is concerned - is it likely that a basic linux install with sufficient functionality could be booted from a Compact Flash card and then run entirely in RAM? I'd like to be able to spin down the hard drive(s) whenever they are not being accessed for the sake of silence/heat/power consumption. I'd hope that limited read-write cycles would not be an issue; I'd like the CF card to be accessed only on boot and when altering some part of the configuration. Please tell me if I'm being a little over-optimistic here!

Software
As mentioned above, I imagine this would be best suited to a small linux distro - shell only, no graphics required. This is where I start to flounder... Is there an existing distro suited to such an application? Or perhaps one which can be easily customized/cut down? I've toyed with Gentoo before so I'm not a total linux noob, but I can imagine this project stretching my basic knowledge pretty far (before anyone tries to dissuade me on these grounds, bear in mind that I would relish the challenge!). As far as firewall, printer/fileserver and network bridge type applications go, I've really no idea what would be required. I'm willing to put a fair bit of research/effort/learning into this thing, but I'd really appreciate some pointers for where to start.

So, my questions in summary...
  1. Is this even slightly likely to work...?!
  2. Would the suggested motherboard/CPU be fast enough to cope with this sort of use?
  3. Is there a more sensible/elegant hardware solution? (Bear in mind I'm trying to do away with all those individual little black boxes which currently populate my hallway!)
  4. Any software guidance/advice you can give me?
  5. Possible methods of HDD-free booting?
  6. Any other comments?
Right, thats it... for now. Thanks in advance for all and any help you guys can give me!

Al

shadestalker
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:55 pm

Post by shadestalker » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:32 am

It looks like you can do everything you listed except ADSL modem and gigabit ethernet with the Linksys WRT54GS and friends (the ones that are linux based) and some hardware hacking:

http://wiki.openwrt.org/UsbStorageHowto
http://wiki.openwrt.org/PrinterSharingHowto

Or you could go the full DIY route with something like one of the Soekris boards:

http://www.soekris.com/net4826.htm

This should get you started exploring tiny, low-power, diskless linux servers. :)

Al
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:48 am
Location: UK

Post by Al » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:37 pm

shadestalker wrote:It looks like you can do everything you listed except ADSL modem and gigabit ethernet with the Linksys WRT54GS and friends (the ones that are linux based) and some hardware hacking:

http://wiki.openwrt.org/UsbStorageHowto
http://wiki.openwrt.org/PrinterSharingHowto

Or you could go the full DIY route with something like one of the Soekris boards:

http://www.soekris.com/net4826.htm

This should get you started exploring tiny, low-power, diskless linux servers. :)
Thanks for the response. I think that going down the OpenWrt route would sort of defeat the point of the exercise, since I'd still have seperate boxes for ADSL modem, router and storage (usb attached) - my hope was to consolidate as much of this functionality into one device as possible. However, the Soekris boards look much more promising. Although the existing models probably do not have enough expansion possibilities to perform all of the functions I'd like, there is mention on the site of a new model, the net5501, supposed to be released in 2005 but clearly not available yet... There's very little information available on what the specs might be, except for this thread I found (sorry mods, I can't seem to get this url to embed properly - perhaps because of the brackets?):
http://www.nabble.com/Re:-gigE-boards.. ... 26664.html
net5501:
AMD Geode-2, 500+ Mhz, ddr dimm memory, 4x ethernet, maybe 2x gigabit ethernet option, 2x SATA, 2x PCI slots, 19" 1U case, otherwise as rest of family.
Target: Late summer 2005, assuming availability of new chips.
Of particular interest are the extra PCI slots (so I can add an ADSL modem), the gigE option and the on-board SATA controller. I'm not sure a 19" 1U form factor is really what I'm looking for, but perhaps that would not be much of an issue. Anyway thanks for putting me on to that, it does seem to be a much more appropriate platform than the likes of an EPIA.

Any more thoughts/suggestions? Particulary on the software side, now that I have a few hardware avenues to explore...

Cheers,

Al

arrikhan
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:51 am
Location: Australia

Post by arrikhan » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:18 pm

Al wrote:Any more thoughts/suggestions? Particulary on the software side, now that I have a few hardware avenues to explore...
In all honesty, just about any PC you buy will do what you want to do under linux (even a 486!). I've been upgrading my 'do everything linux server' from a 486 that booted off of a floopy using freesco (simple internet gateway/firewall), then to e-smith (more functionality like file/print server), and now a PII w/Mandriva (standard linux distro). I've got my hands on an old Dell PII slimline which I modified to handle 3 x HD's and a CDROM drive with some simple tinkering and it currently serves as my internet gateway w/firewall and all of the server functions you have listed (File, Print, Web etc.. ). Mind you, I haven't had to worry about noise as it's in the garage ... but I may be forced to move it inside soon and am thinking about where to put it and how to silence it!

None of the functions you have listed are CPU intensive so if you're actually going to buy something, don't be afraid to go too low (unless you want to reuse it for something else one day :) This will give you the best oppotunity to make it quiet!

You're only concern is going to be linux supporting your hardware. You'll need to be careful of what you buy if it isn't 'standard' hardware if you plan to run linux. The PCI ADSL router sounds like something that may be a headache .. not having any experience with them though .. I don't know!

Is there a reason you wouldn't buy an external adsl modem/gbit router/wireless/firewall combo that's not *in* your PC? Nirvana in getting this internal to a PC might be the turning point from a simple Server to a nightmare to make work :D

I'd list a heap of links here for linux how to's ... but really, searching for "web server linux howto" in a search engine is just as easy :)

As far as linux distro's are concerned.. I was introduced through cut down versions and now on Mandriva (was Mandrake) because it isn't that hard to work things out, and there is the Webmin interface which is very helpful in managing config files if you don't want to get your hands dirty. Webmin is supported on many distros.

Hopefully some other kind people can share their experiences here .. which might better help you decide which way to go.

Good luck!


Arrikhan

shadestalker
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:55 pm

Post by shadestalker » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:41 pm

Al wrote:Any more thoughts/suggestions? Particulary on the software side, now that I have a few hardware avenues to explore...
I found the soekris stuff through the m0n0wall site. It's a pretty neat looking FreeBSD based firewall, so if you like BSD you could probably add the functionality you want.

My personal preference is Debian GNU/Linux, though I'm not sure if base Debian is small enough for your purposes. Embedded Debian exists as a project, not sure what state that's in.

zhenya
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Location: Ithaca, NY

Post by zhenya » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:27 pm

Clark Connect might be a good distribution of linux for your purposes. Simple install and web-based administration without a real GUI. I'd also echo others' sentiments that a really basic machine will suffice here, as well as the option of getting a separate integrated modem/ap/router/firewall unit. Those are available off-the-shelf.

Cams
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Post by Cams » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:37 pm

I've just installed Clark Connect on an old PC to run as a file server and it was easy to set up and has a small footprint. Mind you, unlike you, I am a Linux noob so easy was the name of the game for me. And if you enjoy tinkering, CC might not be the best option (although I do admit that I really don't know how to use it yet and it might be very tinkerable-with for all I know)

Helpful post, huh? :oops:

shadestalker
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Post by shadestalker » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:57 am

More good hardware options, see the AMD Geode thread. :)

ak
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Post by ak » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:51 am

Linux distro wise -I use Debian. I install a basic system that contains no services and then add just what I want.

It sits there being my webserver (Apache), Java Web App (Jakarta Tomcat), MySQL Server, File server (Samba), SSH Server (A trick is to set this to port 443 - SSL - and use Putty on windows at work to get outside strict corporate firewalls, once you have a SSH tunnel, you can tunnel ANYTHING out), Squid proxy server, SOCKS proxy server (Dante), Caller ID server (ncidd - this has windows clients so my HTPC shows the callers Id), firewall for its multiple IP's (I have apache server serving 2-3 websites on from a block of 8 I have with my ISP - one physical card with multiple ips), print server (CUPS). I may have missed some other stuff. but its does all I want and seems fairly lightweight.

This runs on a fairly powerful box (2.8 Ghz P4) though.

Al
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:48 am
Location: UK

Post by Al » Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:23 pm

First of all, cheers for all the comments and suggestions.
arrikhan wrote:Is there a reason you wouldn't buy an external adsl modem/gbit router/wireless/firewall combo that's not *in* your PC?
zhenya wrote:I'd also echo others' sentiments that a really basic machine will suffice here, as well as the option of getting a separate integrated modem/ap/router/firewall unit. Those are available off-the-shelf.
Way too easy!!! :) One of the main reasons for doing this project would be the challenge - I'd like to learn more about linux and networking hardware/software etc, and making this kind of all-in-one box seems to me to be a pretty good way to do that. I'm certainly not afraid of steep learning curves... I suppose there's a bit of "I made this!" factor in there too.
Another reason is that whilst there are plenty of off-the-shelf systems which combine an ADSL modem, firewall, 10/100 LAN switch and wireless access point, but I've yet to find a single one that combines 802.11g with Gigabit LAN, or which has the possibility of internal storage for a fileserver... I could quite easily get the functionality I want with separate ADSL modem, firewall, Gigabit switch, wireless access point and a NAS box - or a smaller number of multifunction devices - but that rather defeats the point; I'd still end up with a pile of black boxes in my hallway, which is exactly the situation I'm trying to avoid.

Now onto all the various suggestions:

freesco and e-smith (apparently now SME Server) both look pretty promising, and it looks like they could both be customised to provide all the functions I want. I think an install based on one of these two would be much easier to keep compact than if I started with a more general-purpose distro.

As far as support for PCI ADSL modems goes, I've found a couple of models which claim to be linux compatible, although you're right, it could be a bit hit-and-miss. I'll buy one from somewhere with a generous returns policy...

Unfortunately I have absolutely no experience with BSD so adapting m0n0wall may be a little bit beyond me. Debian is a possibility, but as you say it might not scale down too well. Judging by the website, EmDebian doesn't seem to have got off the ground (yet).

Clark Connect does seem to be pretty much made for this kind of thing. Reading the quick-start guide suggests it would be a breeze to install, but it doesn't look very customisable and the standard install would be pretty close to 1GB, might be a bit large if I want to boot it from something other than a hard drive. Worth investigating nonetheless.

Anyway, that's given me a fair bit to think about. Thanks for all the suggestions, and keep them coming!

Al

Tibors
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Post by Tibors » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:35 pm

I was googling for something completely different, when I saw an add for a british company selling ADSL PCI models for Linux and remembered this thread. The expensive one (of the two they sell) even has the voice/data splitter integrated on the PCI card.
http://networkned.co.uk/ADSL_modems.php

Al
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:48 am
Location: UK

Post by Al » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:22 am

Tibors wrote:I was googling for something completely different, when I saw an add for a british company selling ADSL PCI models for Linux and remembered this thread. The expensive one (of the two they sell) even has the voice/data splitter integrated on the PCI card.
http://networkned.co.uk/ADSL_modems.php
Good find, I'm particularly drawn to the phrase "guaranteed Linux-Compatible"... The ADSL modem would probably have been the dodgiest part of the install, but with one of these it hopefully won't be a problem.

Cheers,

Al

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