Input / criticism on this high spec system

hapveg · Post by **hapveg** » Mon May 01, 2006 10:18 am

I'm planning on building a new system, it's going to cost quite a bit of cash, so I'd appreciate feedback on anything I may have overlooked, or not thought out properly. I'm especially unsure about the RAM and motherboard.

The system is for both websurfing and gaming.

Case: Antec P180 SPCR

CPU: AMD 64 X2 3800+ or 4200+ (Socket 939)
-cooler: Scythe Ninja (passive, but close to case fans)

Video: ATI X1900XTX 512MB Powercolor
-cooler: Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 (0.4 Sone)

Drives: 4 x SATA SpinPoint 160GB
-enclosures: SilentMaxx Aluminium HDD Heatsink / Enclosure
-edit: SmartDrive 2002C (tip from Shadowknight)

Case fans: Nexus 120mm at 5V, (4) one in each available slot. An 80mm Nexus at 5V for VGA duct. Edit: VGA duct useless (tip from Shadowknight, Bar81)

PSU: undecided, maybe a 620W Nesteq Semi-fanless. More in this PSU thread.

RAM: 2x1GB, I'm a bit out of touch with memory speeds, something high speed.

Motherboard: No idea.

The only things set in stone are the hard drives, as I already have 3 x Spinpoint SATA 160GB (nidec, with quietest AAM). They are the nosiest thing in my current case, suspending them has almost completely eliminated seeks, but the whirring is still louder than my temperature controlled Arctic Cooling case/PSU/CPU fans (4x80mm, 1x92mm). While not set in stone, the HDD enclosures are likely, but I could use acoustic materials instead.

Video: With X1900XTX's, is there any difference between a PowerColor / Connect3D / ASUS / MSI / Sapphire versions? All the tech specs appear identical, and I'll be removing the original cooler. The PowerColor card is slightly cheaper, the rest are identically priced.

Sound Proofing: AcoustiPack Deluxe v2, would it be useful with a P180? Since it already has acoustic material, or is there no such thing as 'enough' acoustic material.

Watercooling: I've considered using a Zalman Reservator, but at the moment I'm a little unsure, I'd still need some airflow to keep my hdd's cool, and having multiple 5V Nexus fans will barely be any louder than a single fan. I'd also be a bit concerned that watercooling wouldn't keep my video RAM cool (I've read DDR2 system RAM generates virtually no heat, but also that DDR2 doesn't like AMD X2).

Another option would be to watercool the CPU / GPU / NB, somehow mount a fan to cool the VGA RAM, and use a Nexus in the lower chamber with the hdd's / PSU. It would reduce the number of 5V Nexus's to 2, also the fans wouldn't be at the edges of the case. Would anything else need air cooling? (voltage regulators?) Currently I'm leaning toward air cooling, but opinions can sway me.
Edit: Watercooling will have trouble with an X1900XTX+CPU (tip from Bar81).

PSU: barring any better suggestions I'll probably get a Semi-Fanless 620W Nesteq PSU, an overly caution, probably inflated online PSU calculator recommended 534 Watts with 1 video card. I've got another thread in the PSU forum, but basically I am hoping a semi-fanless 620W Nesteq PSU with an undervolted Nexus will stop the Nesteq from getting warm enough to turn it's fan on. I'll be getting extension cables too, since the case is a P180.

Motherboard: There seems to be very little selection of good MoBo's supporting supporting only 1 video card. Personally I don't want Crossfire, it's going to increase the cost by about 30% and the master card will constantly be at higher load / generate more heat, even in 2D. I am having trouble finding a good MoBo which will support decent memory, and I'm not even sure that an AMD X2 will benefit from DDR2. I'd really appreciate help with MoBo / RAM.

This is vastly more expensive than any other PC I've built, so I'd really like advice on the concept, especially motherboard / ram.

Pierce · Post by **Pierce** » Mon May 01, 2006 10:40 am

why dont you get yourself a 7900gtx its nearly same speed but power consumption is lower which means less heat if im right

I'm not even sure that an AMD X2 will benefit from DDR2.

you cant use ddr2 with SO 939 just go for ddr or wait till AM2 gets released
for good mobos SO 939 have a look at this
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=29036

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:54 pm

VGA duct is worthless, ditch it and don't buy the 80mm fan.

Get a Zalman heatpipe cooler for your VGA card, get a Nexus fan to cool it off using a fan bracket or buying some screws to slide the fan into the groove meant for the optional fan Nexus sells.

Acoustipack is always okay to put in there. There is no soundproofing included in the P180 per se. It uses al/plastic/al, so the acoustic foam will help suck up cavity resonance.,

Silentmaxx HD cooler hasn't gotten very good responses on this forum, get a Smartdrive 2002C instead.

Get a Seasonic for your PSU.

Trunks · Post by **Trunks** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:35 pm

Greetings,

CPU: AMD 64 X2 3800+ or 4200+ (Socket 939)
-cooler: Scythe Ninja (passive, but close to case fans)

You need a back up fan on the heat sink. Or maybe just a duct.
I do not know the AM2 products are ready for intelligent critique at this point

stupid · Post by **stupid** » Mon May 01, 2006 6:41 pm

Have you considered just postponing building your rig until socket AM2 comes out on May 23rd.

Basically there will be very little performance increase if any. A few things that you need to know:

1. AMD's next generation CPU "K8L" is due out next year using AM2.
2. DDR2 RAM is required. AMD is finally saying good bye to DDR RAM.
3. New AM2 Athlons will have lower TDPs than their socket 939 counterparts, thus they should produce less heat.
4. Scythe Ninja will is not compatible with socket AM2.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Mon May 01, 2006 6:51 pm

Trunks wrote:Greetings,

CPU: AMD 64 X2 3800+ or 4200+ (Socket 939)
-cooler: Scythe Ninja (passive, but close to case fans)
You need a back up fan on the heat sink. Or maybe just a duct.
I do not know the AM2 products are ready for intelligent critique at this point

Oh I dunno: my X2 4200+ stays pretty cool with just the S12 430's fan above it (in an Evercase 4252) and the rear case fan (a Scythe DF) is controlled by the mobo, and it only kicks on above 52C -- and the temp has never peaked above 54C, even with the room above 80F/27C. I've undervolted it to 1.264v.

hapveg · Post by **hapveg** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:38 am

Pierce wrote:why dont you get yourself a 7900gtx its nearly same speed but power consumption is lower which means less heat if im right

nvidia 7900GTX vs ATI X1900XTX. I debated on the for a while, I'm usually an nvidia user, but with Arctic Cooling's Accelero both the X1900XTX and 7900GTX emit the same noise (0.4 Sone). The extra heat being pumped into the case may increase cpu temperature slightly, but I'd prefer a X1900XTX, since it's tremendously better than a 7900GTX with Oblivion, and seems to be a better card in DirectX games (not OpenGL), and slightly more future-proof with the extra pixel shaders.

Pierce wrote:you cant use ddr2 with SO 939 just go for ddr

Thanks, I really was planning on DDR2, that saved me an embarrassing RMA.

Shadowknight wrote:VGA duct is worthless, ditch it and don't buy the 80mm fan.

Many thanks, acknowledged.

Shadowknight wrote:Get a Zalman heatpipe cooler for your VGA card, get a Nexus fan to cool it off using a fan bracket or buying some screws to slide the fan into the groove meant for the optional fan Nexus sells.

Will a Zalman heatpipe cooler work on an X1900XTX? I've still got one from an old nvidia 4200. I was under the impression the quietest way to cool the X1900 was with an Zalman VF900 or an Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 (0.4 sone).

Shadowknight wrote:Acoustipack is always okay to put in there. There is no soundproofing included in the P180 per se. It uses al/plastic/al, so the acoustic foam will help suck up cavity resonance.

Thanks, good to know.

Shadowknight wrote:Silentmaxx HD cooler hasn't gotten very good responses on this forum, get a Smartdrive 2002C instead.

Good to know, thanks.

Shadowknight wrote:Get a Seasonic for your PSU.

Seasonic seem very popular on SPCR, and I'm sure they deserve that popularity, but Seasonics are never passive, and I'd really like a PSU whoes fan doesn't spin at all, unless the temperature becomes too high.

stupid wrote:Have you considered just postponing building your rig until socket AM2 comes out on May 23rd.

I didn't know it was so near, I'm a bit iffy on being an early adopter, but the US pre-order prices don't seem too bad (less than $20 between the X2 4200+ and AM2 X2 4200+). They'll probably be a delay before it hits UK shelfs, but I might just upgrade everything except mobo/cpu/memory, and get the AM2/DDR2 when decent CPU heatsinks become available. Thanks, this tip could have just got me a much better system than I planned on.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:16 am

Seasonic seem very popular on SPCR, and I'm sure they deserve that popularity, but Seasonics are never passive, and I'd really like a PSU whose fan doesn't spin at all, unless the temperature becomes too high.

With an X1900XTX any fanless PSU that you get will get so hot that you will have to use a fan with it anyway, thus defeating the purpose. Seasonics are popular for a reason, they are the quietest fan-cooled PSU (tied with NeoHE but without the compatibility problems) and with a fan swap will certainly be less than the 0.4 sone from your graphics card cooler.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:25 am

In my setup I used a 350w Phantom and a Nexus at 650rpm blowing on it. Works fine. Just FYI, since the OP mentioned wanting to use a passive PSU in the P180.

Shobai · Post by **Shobai** » Tue May 02, 2006 2:00 pm

just how urgent is this build? are you needing the computer NOW!! sort of thing, or is it a more relaxed build timetable? are you testing out the waters, just seeing what's around and deciding on stuff as you go, or is this something that you want to go out and pick up today/once you're happy with the advice?

hapveg · Post by **hapveg** » Tue May 02, 2006 3:24 pm

Shobai wrote:just how urgent is this build? are you needing the computer NOW!! sort of thing, or is it a more relaxed build timetable?

Somewhere between urgent and relaxed.

Long story cut short, my ATI 9800XT died, so I put in an older GF4200Ti, which died, so I'd been using an *old* PCI Virge DX (1997-ish, worked surprising well in WinXP). I rush built a new system, didn't even check this forum for advice, it turned out a bit of a disaster. Drills were involved. To avoid this becoming a massive unrelated tale, my main problem is my new video card, it's a passive nvidia 6500 with 256MB RAM. The 6500 isn't well known, but it's basically a 6200 with onboard RAM. It's completely underpowered for gaming.

All I really need is a now is high powered video card, which will also require a better PSU, but my memory is old (DDR, but it was new with the GeForce 4200Ti, and has been moved from PC to PC since), and since I'm updating significant chunks of my PC I might as well update it all.

At a push just updating the video and PSU is a priority, but to save on hassle I was planning on doing the full system at once, but now I'm considering waiting for the AM2 I'll probably just get everything except the cpu/ram/mobo.

Shobai wrote:are you testing out the waters, just seeing what's around and deciding on stuff as you go, or is this something that you want to go out and pick up today/once you're happy with the advice?

Years ago I added 'Make PC quiet' to my mental to-do list, I thought it would take a couple of hours

, I've tested the waters for years with quiet components, built custom things and watched temperatures skyrocket, my case spends half its time open while testing the latest idea. This time I'm opting for a more sensible approach, get advice from people who know more than me, get it highly overpowered so I won't need to update soon, and finally mentally tick off 'Make PC quiet' from my To-Do list.

hapveg · Post by **hapveg** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:11 pm

SmartDrive 2002C - I can't find any UK distributor, but I can find a few other UK folk also peeved that there is no UK distributor.

I'll probably just try the setup without an enclosure, if my hdd's can still be heard over the other fans I'll line the lower front compartment with acoustic material, use some longer SATA cables to put the drives there and rely on the nexus in the lower compartment to cool them, keeping a close eye on their temperatures for a couple of days.

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:59 pm

hapveg wrote: Drives: 4 x SATA SpinPoint 160GB
-enclosures: SilentMaxx Aluminium HDD Heatsink / Enclosure

Any particular reason you're going with 160 GB drives?

Last I checked, 250 GB was the sweet spot for disk drives. On newegg, the 160 GB samsungs worked out to $0.425 per gigabyte, while the 250 GB drives were only $0.328 per gigabyte. For $56, you get an extra 360 GB.

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:29 am

Beyonder wrote:
hapveg wrote: Drives: 4 x SATA SpinPoint 160GB
-enclosures: SilentMaxx Aluminium HDD Heatsink / Enclosure
Any particular reason you're going with 160 GB drives?

Last I checked, 250 GB was the sweet spot for disk drives. On newegg, the 160 GB samsungs worked out to $0.425 per gigabyte, while the 250 GB drives were only $0.328 per gigabyte. For $56, you get an extra 360 GB.

Maybe you should read the ENTIRE first post again

hapveg · Post by **hapveg** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:07 am

Thank you all for the advice (ShadowKnight, IsaacKuo, Shobai, jaganath, Pierce, Bar81, stupid, NeilBlanchard, Ackelind, TomZ), I'll carry on using my current CPU / mobo / memory till good AM2 heatsinks come out, but this morning I ordered everything else on my list, all next day delivery.

I ordered from 4 separate companies, and judging from confirmation emails / order tracking one of the companies (ebuyer.com) haven't actually posted anything yet (they were supposed to send the case and X1900XTX).

Once everything arrives I'll post the results of the build, hopefully should be nice and quiet.

Thanks again for the advice.

hapveg wrote:Video: With X1900XTX's, is there any difference between a PowerColor / Connect3D / ASUS / MSI / Sapphire versions? All the tech specs appear identical

I checked this out myself on a gaming related board, a couple of quotes
1) "ATI, Powercolor, Connect3d and Sapphire are nearly identical, in that they share suppliers for parts ... All ATI cards have the same spec. ATI doesn't allow overclocks from their distributor's."
2) "all (specs) the same, different software bundles and warranties."

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:20 pm

jackylman wrote:
Beyonder wrote:
hapveg wrote: Drives: 4 x SATA SpinPoint 160GB
-enclosures: SilentMaxx Aluminium HDD Heatsink / Enclosure
Any particular reason you're going with 160 GB drives?

Last I checked, 250 GB was the sweet spot for disk drives. On newegg, the 160 GB samsungs worked out to $0.425 per gigabyte, while the 250 GB drives were only $0.328 per gigabyte. For $56, you get an extra 360 GB.
Maybe you should read the ENTIRE first post again

Ummm, yeah, that would have helped.

That's what I get for not RTFM.

mattthemuppet · Post by **mattthemuppet** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:25 pm

so what mobo did you go for in the end? be interesting to know what you ended up with and how it works out, particularly with the X1900XTX.

hapveg · Post by **hapveg** » Fri May 05, 2006 3:39 am

No mobo yet, stupid pointed out that the new AM2 chips should be out within a month, so I'm going to wait a little till decent heatsinks are made to fit them, then I'll get an AM2 compatible mobo and DDR2 ram.

Currently using my older cpu / mobo / ram (Sempron 3400+, Gigabyte K8NE nForce4 4X, 1 GB noname ram).

hapveg · Post by **hapveg** » Sat May 06, 2006 6:59 pm

Thanks again, the system works, and is very quiet.

Some things I'll comment on though, incase anyone in the future reads this thread when deciding to buy a new system.

Nexus fans: some don't reliably start at 5V.

P180: really, really good case, but there are some things it's better to know.
4x120mm fan slots, the original 3 speed fans aren't too quiet on the lowest setting, but it's likely you wont need 4 quieter replacements, only 1 or 2. The upper exhaust and possibly the lower PSU / hdd chamber (if you have a fanless PSU). The topslot uses a hook built into the case which isn't compatible with Nexus fans. The front fan intake won't really cool anything unless you have over 4 hdd's, although theoretically it could reduce dust build up by encouraging air to pass through a dust filter. Edit: it'd be possible to break / saw the hooks off the top mount and suspend a fan there.

A PSU that has removable cables would be a good choice, and a 12V CPU extension cable will probably be required. The PSU cables are fed through a tunnel into the main chamber, directly below the PCI slots, it would be somewhere between difficult and impossible to manage this if the mobo has 2 video cards with large heatsink/fans.

It can get pretty cramped in there, it might be best to wait before getting any AcoustiPack.

mattthemuppet · Post by **mattthemuppet** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:35 pm

would be worth keeping an eye out for a mobo that allows undervolting and fan control - 2 key things for quiet computing IMO.

what PSU did you go for in the end? I don't think fanless is that important in the P180 as very few PSUs will get hot enough to spin the fan up. If it does, then just remove the fan and stick it in the middle fan slot so it's further away from the outside. That said, an Antec phantom 500 with Nexus fan in the middle would be real real sweet. Whatever you do, go for the highest efficiency you can around the 150-200W mark, which is probably where you'll be with an X2 4200 + X1900XTX (80+120W?).

hapveg · Post by **hapveg** » Mon May 08, 2006 7:26 pm

When I upgrade to an AM2 I'm definitely going to be checking out mobo's which support SpeedFan (my current one only supports reading, not altering of speed), it'll be especially important if I use a Scythe Ninja cooler (assuming it gets adapted for the new socket).

***

PSU thread, summed up:

Me: I need a 620W Nesteq Semi-fanless PSU.
TomZ: no you don't
Bar81: no you don't
jaganath: no you don't
Overconfidence: no you don't
Shadowknight: no you don't
me: orders stuff
me: oh, you were right.
---
I looked at the heavily recommended seasonics, all fanned. I really didn't want a fanned PSU. I decided to try it out with my (old fanned) 400W Zalman, with a nexus helping keep it cool it should've been near silent.

The day comes when I order all my kit, I caved and ordered a fanless PSU anyway, I was pretty sure that an old Zalman made before the 12V line was important couldn't handle the system, it didn't even have a PCIe connector. By now I know I don't need anywhere near 620W, but I remember seeing my booklet which came with my Zalman, a chart in it shows that the 400W heats up slower / makes less noise than the 300W, so I guess that the higher wattage fanless will have larger heatsinks than lower wattage models.

The X1900XTX + 4 hdd's work fine with just the 400W Zalman (with a molex->PCIe connector), I really didn't need another PSU.

The Nesteq 620W Semi-fanless:

The Nesteq is completely silent / passive 100% of the time in a P180 with a nexus at about 700 RPM. This is the only setup I'd recommend it for.

With no nexus and low load it stays quiet for long periods (30+ minutes), then goes high speed for a couple of minutes, then low speed for a couple, then silent again. At high GPU/CPU load it goes high after a couple of minutes, then stays on low until the load drops.

An occasionally active fan wouldn't be too bad, but it has an annoying clicking noise, if it wasn't for that I'd recommend it, but as it stands I'd only recommend it in a P180 with a nexus.

Real moral of the story, if a bunch of folk tell you something, and your gut tells you something else, the bunch of folk are right.

mattthemuppet · Post by **mattthemuppet** » Mon May 08, 2006 7:36 pm

well, it's easy enough to mislead yourself, even if lots of people are saying the opposite, if it's something you really really want. As with any PSU, I think going for the highest efficiency possible is the way to go. Fan swaps are easy, but efficiency (or lack of) is something you're stuck with. Still, if it works, that's all that matters.

Input / criticism on this high spec system

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