MSI Speedster 945GT report

[mhv10]

Hi,
just a follow-up on my attempts at putting together some low-power and low-noise NAS hardware that also works well with open source operating systems.

Yesterday I received both the MSI Speedster motherboards (915GM and 945GT). Last night, I ran into lots of problems with the 915GM (jumper confusion, possible bad CPU, who knows what else), so this morning I switched gears to try out the 945GT. These are my notes:

1. no jumpers! no faulty documentation (ala the 915GM) about jumpers! yay!

2. main problem is that my 2x1GB PC2-5400 memory sticks are only recognized as 2x512MB sticks. Either single 1GB stick in either socket is also recognized as just 512MB. This is my first time using DDR2 memory, but I assumed all the bugs would have been worked out already regarding single / dual sided sticks, etc. Specific brand is OCZ Value Pro Series with 5-5-5-10 timing.

3. the machine came with BIOS 1.0bC from April 17, but upgrading to the latest (1.0 from May 16) didn't do much of note. It would be nice if MSI included their change log in the zip file.

4. I'm hoping to use this for a Linux/BSD/OpenSolaris software-raid NAS server, so I've got 3 out of 4 SATA ports filled, and was temporarily also plugging in a DVD-ROM and old IDE hard drive as well. This required changing the default SATA BIOS setting to "enhanced mode", otherwise it only ever recognized the SATA drives. I also was having trouble booting off of a USB keydrive until after I did this (e.g. attempting to use USB version of FreeNAS as the NAS OS).

5. power consumption: with my lowly Core Solo T1300 CPU, this mobo, no PCI-E or PCI cards, 4 hard drives, 2GB of ram (only 1GB being recognized), and a DVD-ROM drive, the entire system consumes between 85-95 watts according to my kill-a-watt. For an always-on NAS device, I was hoping for a lower figure, so I'm curious to see how my 915GM + Celeron M 360J compares. For comparison purposes, a Buffalo Terastation with 4 drives consumes 45-50 watts.

6. performance: no solid information yet on file server performance.

7. free OS compatibility. Luckly both FreeNAS and Ubuntu 6.06 recognize the twin Intel gig-e chips and ICH7R sata just fine, but I still need to test Solaris since using ZFS is a goal.

8. noise: stock heatsink + fan are fairly loud. BIOS health page showed that the CPU was running at about 41C and the fan at 3245RPM. Need to find a replacement, probably using more standard P4 retention brackets so that I can hopefully reuses the Zalman 7000 heatsink that I have sitting around.

Hope this has been of interest, and any advice on the memory problem or heatsink+fan recommendations is most welcome.

--Mark

[SLOTh]

so the thetention for the heatsink on the speedsers is a 478? if so cool just wondering... i knw aOpen and ASUS are kustum krap... so jsut wondering..

[mhv10]

so the thetention for the heatsink on the speedsers is a 478? if so cool just wondering... i knw aOpen and ASUS are kustum krap... so jsut wondering..

I may have mis-spoken. The holes for the retention bracket in the motherboard are spaced approx. 60mm x 77mm on both my 945GT and my vanilla Intel 865 P4 mobo. However, the 945GT speedster only comes with their custom retention bracket and matching heatsink + fan.

So you still need to scavange both a retention bracket from a P4 and find a heatsink that will actually fit down onto a Pentium M / Core style chip that lacks the heatspreader.

I noticed MSI was selling $10 heatspreaders add-ons for Turion 64 chips to go along with their recent addition of Turion 64 support to some of their Socket 754 boards. It would be nice if they did the same for the Pentium-M or Cores, but I guess they think their heatsink + fan are all you might ever want.
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[jaganath]

power consumption: with my lowly Core Solo T1300 CPU, this mobo, no PCI-E or PCI cards, 4 hard drives, 2GB of ram (only 1GB being recognized), and a DVD-ROM drive, the entire system consumes between 85-95 watts according to my kill-a-watt. For an always-on NAS device, I was hoping for a lower figure, so I'm curious to see how my 915GM + Celeron M 360J compares. For comparison purposes, a Buffalo Terastation with 4 drives consumes 45-50 watts.

The Core Solo T1300 actually has a slightly higher TDP than its Core Duo counterpart, even though the CD has double the L2 cache! 4 3.5" hard drives will probably pull about 50 watts by themselves, so the Terastation is actually pretty efficient in that respect. A ULV Pentium M (if you have one) or the Celeron M undervolted (if possible) might give you better power consumption figures. However it's tricky getting CPU + mobo power consumption below 30W, because as the CPU power goes down, a greater % of the heat is being generated by the power MOSFETs and chipset.

[lunadesign]

mhv10 - I just heard about this mobo and am very interested in it for a backup/file server I'm building. However, I have to admit that I was a little bummed about the noise and power consumption, not to mention all the other problems. Please keep us posted on your progress. Other than the hexus review, I hadn't seen any other hands-on info until I saw your post.

[mhv10]

mhv10 - I just heard about this mobo and am very interested in it for a backup/file server I'm building. However, I have to admit that I was a little bummed about the noise and power consumption, not to mention all the other problems. Please keep us posted on your progress. Other than the hexus review, I hadn't seen any other hands-on info until I saw your post.

Sure thing.

My latest batch of testing has been around file serving performance using FreeNAS booting off a USB thumb drive (with both 1 drive and 3 drives in its software RAID5 config), Ubuntu 6.06 with just one ext3 drive (I need to learn more about LVM and software RAID on Linux), and Solaris Express build 40 (since I really want to use ZFS ultimately). I don't have number for Solaris yet since I just got the gig-e networking up a second ago, and I have to build & config Samba from scratch.

My file servers tests using robocopy on an XP SP2 machine mounting the file share over SMB. I use a 45GB sample "backup" dataset of mostly photos and audio files.

FreeNAS with 1 SATA drive (formatted as UFS): 1h37m
FreeNAS with 3 SATA drives (whatever BSD soft-raid): 2h56m
Ubuntu 6.06 with 1 SATA drive (ext3): 1h21m
Buffalo Terastation with 1 drive (no raid, jumbo packets): 3h35m
Buffalo Terastation with 1 drive (no raid, no jumbo packets): 4h00m

All over a gig-e network with 8-port Airlink AGIGA8SW switch, but I'm not sure if anything but the Terastation is configured to use jumbo packets.

I'm a little disappointed by the FreeNAS software RAID5 performance, which is why I want to try Ubuntu RAID5 as well as ZFS. I should have been measuring CPU usage on the file server, but I'm a little disorganized.

As far as power consumption, I'm going to try some experiements with just the Seasonic S12-330 power-supply + test load, then add 1 disk, then another, etc, just to get some baseline figures. Then hopefully I can get the 915GM motherboard working for more comparisons (and also because the 945GT is too nice to waste on a file server -- I just hope it is true that the initial Meroms will be plug compatible with Core Duos so this mobo has a decent lifespan).

One datapoint I do have with the 945GT + Core Solo T1300 versus my original Intel 865 mobo + Celeron 2.6Ghz (Prescott P4) is that running the silly 100% CPU test of "yes > /dev/null" only brings the power usage from 85 to 93 watts, whereas on the Celeron it jumped from 86 to 140 watts!

Too bad a file server isn't really CPU bound. I think I will have to focus more on an operating system that has good support for S.M.A.R.T., tweaking power management of the drives (WD 400 Raid Editions, in my case), spinning down of the drives, and anything the OS can do to put the CPU to into deep sleep modes. After all, a home NAS server is probably idle 90-95% of the time.

But I will definitely keep you posted and maybe get some photos taken.

[BillyBuerger]

I'd love to hear is you can get the Speedster 915GM working and what problems you had. I have a spare Celeron M 350 laying around and the Speedster 915GM is the cheapest motherboard I've been able to find for it. Newegg has an open box one for $100.

[Mats]

The Core Solo T1300 actually has a slightly higher TDP than its Core Duo counterpart, even though the CD has double the L2 cache!

No, they both have 2 MB total.

I noticed MSI was selling $10 heatspreaders add-ons for Turion 64 chips to go along with their recent addition of Turion 64 support to some of their Socket 754 boards. It would be nice if they did the same for the Pentium-M or Cores, but I guess they think their heatsink + fan are all you might ever want.

It fits your CPU too, check out my last post here.

[mhv10]

It fits your CPU too, check out my last post here.

Mats, this is great. I've just ordered one, so hopefully I can use my Zalman from the Celeron setup. Anyone have a good source for vanilla P4 retention brackets?

For anyone else following along at home, my setup of Solaris 11 disappoints on single disk performance, but pulls ahead of at least FreeNAS in the RAID tests:

Solaris Express Nevada Build 40 with 1 Disk (UFS): 2h:05m
Solaris Express Nevada Build 40 with 3 Disk (ZFS RAIDZ): 2h:24m

The slow single disk performance makes me question whether I might have not done the most optimal build or configuration of Samba 3.0.2.

Next up is Ubuntu with RAID, and then attempting to resurrect the 915GM.

--Mark

[lunadesign]

mhv10 - Did you solve your memory issue with the 945GT Speedster? Also has the noise of the stock heatsink/fan gotten any better?

Also, do Linux/Solaris know how to play ball with SpeedStep? I'm just curious if they can really take care of the power savings that the SpeedStep modes offer. Have you tried running Windows on this box by any chance?

I'm confused about the MSI Mobile Pad thingamajig. How does this thing mount on the proc? And does this allow you to use any fan on it?

[mhv10]

mhv10 - Did you solve your memory issue with the 945GT Speedster? Also has the noise of the stock heatsink/fan gotten any better?

No and no. But I haven't really tried to resolve the memory issue yet by contacting MSI, and I'm not keen to buy different memory just for testing but maybe that will be quickest (i.e. take advantage of Fry's lienient return policies).

Also, do Linux/Solaris know how to play ball with SpeedStep? I'm just curious if they can really take care of the power savings that the SpeedStep modes offer. Have you tried running Windows on this box by any chance?

Not sure about Linux/BSD/Solaris working wit SpeedStep. I just installed Vista, but did something stupid when the 945GM video driver wasn't found (forced the 915GM driver, but should have checked Windows Update, where the 945GM is an optional download). So its hosed and I need to repair or reinstall and verify file serving performance, power consumption, and also see if Vista has software RAID5.

I'm confused about the MSI Mobile Pad thingamajig. How does this thing mount on the proc? And does this allow you to use any fan on it?

Mats probably knows more, but I'll find out in a few days when I receive mine. I assume it just sits on top, with maybe a bit of thermal tape to make it a little sticky. And yes, I assume it will bring the geometry of the chip up so that any stock P4 heatsink would work, but that's just my hope for now.

--Mark

[mhv10]

Hi all,
my progress slowed down due to real life, but here are some news flashes with my 945GT:


1. Re: the 2GB of RAM recognized only as 1GB. MSI tech support sent me their QVL list of verified memory sticks, and after I purchased a pair of the verified Patriot 1GB model, the motherboard did recognize the ram. Now I just need to determine if the original pair (which was higher quality, in theory) is defective or not, or just assume that this motherboard is very very picky. I could not find this QVL on their website, just the one for the 915GM.


2. Re: MSI's copper "mobile pad" for Turions. I ordered it from the MSI online store and just received it but haven't fitted it yet on either the 915GM or 945GT. But just based on appearances, it is a nice hunk of copper for the $10 price. And to answer the question, it looks like it just sits on top of the mobile CPU's circuit board (the green part). Came with a thermal pad that sits directly on the CPU die, but I don't know if it is any good or can be easily replaced with standard thermal paste.


3. More file-server performance test results for Windows Server 2003 and Ubuntu 6.06. Note that Windows pulled the same if not slightly more power than Ubuntu, so it has no Speedstep advantage out of the box:

Ubuntu + Samba 3 on single disk, ext3 fs - 1h13m
Ubuntu + Samba 3 on md raid5 across 3 disks, ext3 fs - 1h03m
Windows Server 2003 on single disk, ntfs - 0h50m
Windows Server 2003 on software raid5 across 3 disks, ntfs - 2h13m

So Ubuntu is the clear software RAID5 leader, and Windows comes in second, just nudging out ZFS on Solaris Nevada Build 11.


4. My next task is to diagnose the 915GM problems.

[simeli]

I have a 915 Speedster with a 1.7Ghz Dothan in Service under Gentoo Linux. Speedstep is not easily supported, the board seems to have broken ACPI tables. Sad, but not dramatic for a desktop.

@ mhv10
I'd be interested to know, how you have set up you RAID 5 under Linux. It seems that you are getting at most 12MB/s through the pipe. You may also want to try not using a switch between the machines. GbE requires no crossover cables. So you can just use straight ones.

I'd probably start benchmarking the RAID first using Bonnie or another tool. after that you can benchmark you network and then samba. That way you could find out what wrecks your performance.

[Mario]

Getting information about the 945GT, I noticed that the processor socket is pin type 478 for yonah.
Unfortunately I cannot find any retailer with this kind of socket CPU. I find Intel Core only on ball-type 479 socket in EU.

Am I understand correctly the processor support of the 945 GT?

Alternatively, does anybody know where to buy an Intel Core processor with the 478 socket interface in old Europe?

Thanks

[simeli]

The Core Duo uses a socket 479. don't be fooled by the varying names of core duo 478 or 479. there really is only one version available.

http://alternate.de sells the board and processors.

[jaganath]

The Core Duo uses a socket 479. don't be fooled by the varying names of core duo 478 or 479. there really is only one version available.

http://alternate.de sells the board and processors.

The confusion arises because Core Duo (Yonah) has 478 physical pins, but only works in socket 479 boards. The same is true for the Pentium M, although Core Duo does not work in Pentium M motherboards and vice versa!

[Mario]

I am not so sure. Intel specs for the core duo, page 43 states:
"The processor is available in 478-pin Micro-FCPGA and 479-ball Micro-FCBGA packages".

I also checked alternate one of my preferred, but it is even more confusing:

The board 945GT is listed under socket 479M together with all other board supporting Pentium M NOT Intel Core Duo. OK, this could be a mistake.

Then for the CPUs there are 4 categories:
479M FC-BGA (with Pentium M)
479M FC-PGA (With Celerons and Pentium M)
479Y (with Core Duo)
and surprise surprise....
478M which is empty!! I thought this might be the needed one for the 945GT because the manual mention a 478 mobile socket!

Now I am confused, how can I be sure to get the right processor?

mhv10, could you confirm what procs are you using? and where did you find it? Also did you succeed in mounting a standard cooler for socket 478 (non mobile, like zalman 7000)?
Thanks.

[simeli]

the 945gm does not use a standard 478 retention module. so you'd have to get the brackets somewhere else... i haven't seen a mod yet, but i suppose it can easily be done. otherwise, mounting a quieter papst fan would certainly also help a lot. not that the core duos can get up to 100degrees celsius within the intel specs. so you can leave that component run hotter than you normally would. just make sure that case ventilation is ok.

according to alternate, you'd have to get this:

CPU Sockel 479Y these are the core duos
the other 479s are the older dothan cores and the low voltage and ultra low voltage versions thereof.

you are right about the 945gm being mislisted in the "dothan category"

hope this helps

[mhv10]

Mario,
I think simeli has covered most of your questions, but I have been experimenting with an aftermarket "Socket 478 retention bracket" that I got at Fry's. It unfortunately used screws threaded into a steel backing plate, which would have shorted out the surface mounted chips on the backside of the motherboard. So I've ordered another style of bracket off eBay that has plastic pins that go through the holes and "mushroom" out, identical to the retention bracket that comes with the 945GT. I'm hoping that this will be secure enough to support the weight of a Zalman 7000 AlCu heatsink.

As far as CPUs go, the 945GT situation is relatively simple -- any boxed/retail Core Solo or Core Duo chip will work. When I first received it, I thought it would also accept the older Pentium M chips that I had acquired off eBay for cheap (i.e. salvaged CPUs from broken laptops), but the pin configuration is quite different. That's why I also ordered a 915GM Speedster, since for file server project I don't really the full power of a Core Solo + 945 chipset.

This is what the corner pins for a Pentium M / socket of a 915GM Speedster look like (O == no pin)
X X X O
X X O X
X X X X
X X X X

And this is what the same pins for the Core Solo / Duo and 945GT look like:
X X X O
X X X O
X X X X
X X X X

Hope that helps,
Mark

[BillyBuerger]

I am not so sure. Intel specs for the core duo, page 43 states:
"The processor is available in 478-pin Micro-FCPGA and 479-ball Micro-FCBGA packages".

Here's an earlier discusion about this topic.

The thing to remember is that it's called socket 479. You could deduce that it means there are 479 pins. But it's really just a name to let you know that it is not socket 478 compatible. They could have called it socket M or something. Probably would have made things easier as it's made for the 'M' series CPUs.

The only Intel CPUs that have 479 physical pins are the Micro-FCBGA package ones. And I believe these are embeded versions that would be soldered directly to a PCB, not placed in a socket. So all P-M and C-M and Core Duo CPUs that you can buy retail have 478 pins and are for socket 479.

[Mario]

Yay! That settles it. Thanks guys, I did not realized that it has been already discussed.

mhv10, please let us know in case you succeed in mounting the zalman cooler.

Now I just need to decide between the 945GT with Intel core or an older 915 with pentium M. Fact is even a pentium M would be more than enough for a home server, but the prices are so close that I might as well go for the newer components.

[simeli]

as i noted earlier, i run the 915gm version with a dothan. it has been thoroughly tested and is rock solid as a server. it is very easy to put on a zalman cooler with the standard retention module.

i'd probably go for the new version if i were to buy everything again. the only thing that could hold me back would be no reports on the cooler modification. would really have to look into that. but if you put on a decent papst fan on the standard cooler and put the mobo in a quiet case like an Antec P180, you should have no probs.

gruesse aus zürich

[rolkwong]

Hi mhv10, I too ordered this mobo from ncix.com - still to arrive though. I read on customer review on newegg that the video is buggy - any luck with using the DVI port or have comments to share on the video ?

Also - just wondering, I thought the four SATAII ports were hardware Intel RAID ports.

Can you check if the QVL list includes the Corsair Value Select PC2-5300 1X1024MB DDR2-667 240PIN DIMM ? I just bought these from ncix as well as they were on special. Locally in Toronto, OCZ (what you bought) would be cheaper, running at like $180 or so for 2x1024 but I decided to go with Corsair's less aggressive timing having read your post.

Thanks mhv10 !

[simeli]

on the 915gm the sata ports have no raid functionality. on the newer 945gm msi uses the ich7r, thus with raid 0, 1, 5 and matrix raid

[mhv10]

Hi All,
sorry I've been offline for a few days.

Updates:

1. I received my RMA replacement for the 915GM. Too bad the replacement fails identically.

Lesson #1: never send back anything but the motherboard. I had basically returned everything that was in the box originally, and what they sent back was just the bare motherboard.

Anyway, the replacement 915GM still fails to POST like the previous one (no video, etc). So I am going to take offers on this board so that someone with more time to waste or interest can take a crack at it. I just don't have time to screw around hoping this setup can be made to work. I'll also throw in all my Banias / Dothan CPUs (Celeron M 350 & 360, Pentium M 730), plus the MSI copper heatsink adapter so you can use a regular heatsink. Note that I am leaving tonight on a 3-day trip, so I likely won't be able to respond or certainly put stuff it in the mail until Wednesday.

2. I never had a problem with the DVI output on the 945GT. That's all I have ever used with it.

3. The Zalman 7000 is mounted now using the generic Socket 478 heatsink retention bracket, along with the MSI copper heatsink adapter, but it still seems a bit loose. I'm also concerned because in the BIOS "PC Health" screen, the CPU temp is 51 C, which seems way too high for essentially idle. So I'm thinking there is poor contact.

3. Rolkwong, the QVL list is hopefully on their website by now (I told them to post it), but there were no Corsair PC2-5300 models listed in any capacity. There were a few Corsair PC2-4300 sticks, but here is the list of 1GB PC2-5300 sticks they validated:

GeIL GX22GB5300SDC
Hynix HYMP512U64AP8-Y5
Infineon HYS64T128020HU-3S-B
Kingmax KLCD48F-A8EB5
Kingston KVR667D2N5/1G
Micron MT16HTF12864AY-667A2
Micron MT16HTF12864AY-66EA3
Nanya NT1GT64U8HB0BY-3C
Patriot PSD21G6672
PSC ALE8E63B-6E1T
SEC M378T2953CZ3-CE6
Transcend TS128MLQ64V6J [TE]

Note that none of these are kits, just individual DIMMS. I searched on NewEgg and found that Patriot part number, and bought two of them. They seem to work fine.

--Mark

[simeli]

Hi All,
3. The Zalman 7000 is mounted now using the generic Socket 478 heatsink retention bracket, along with the MSI copper heatsink adapter, but it still seems a bit loose. I'm also concerned because in the BIOS "PC Health" screen, the CPU temp is 51 C, which seems way too high for essentially idle. So I'm thinking there is poor contact.

I am also running a dothan core on the 915gm with a zalman. on idle it's about 5 degrees above ambient. i don't use a heatspreader on the cpu. works well without one. chances of damaging the die with the zalman is very small because it doesn't use clips or something. with the screws you can apply pressure very evenly. so i'd give it a shot without the heatspreader. mine isn't loose at all, so it really think poor contact because of the heatspreader and loosely tightened screws might be the problem

[rolkwong]

Hi mhv10,

By the MSI copper heat sink do you mean the MSI mobile pad that is just released for Athlon boards to take Sempron or the MSI 945GT stock heatsink ?

Thanks,

[mhv10]

Hi,
sorry, to be clear, my comments about the MSI Copper heatsink "adaptor" was a reference to hunk of copper MSI sells online for $10 so that Turion 64 CPUs can be used in their Athlon 64 boards. The bottom surface that touches the chip has a felt ring around the edge to distribute the force of the heatsink across more than just the silicon die of the CPU itself. It also has a seemingly crappy thermal pad material, which I am tempted to scrap off and replace with regular Arctic Silver, etc.

What is weird about my experience was that with the 915GM board, there was no slop or play when a Zalman 7000 was placed on top of the Pentium M + MSI Copper adaptor. Yet with the 945GT it is a little loose even with the Zalman's screws turned all the way tight. The retention bracket appears to be the same height up, so I haven't quite figured what might be different yet.

--Mark

[simeli]

What is weird about my experience was that with the 915GM board, there was no slop or play when a Zalman 7000 was placed on top of the Pentium M + MSI Copper adaptor. Yet with the 945GT it is a little loose even with the Zalman's screws turned all the way tight. The retention bracket appears to be the same height up, so I haven't quite figured what might be different yet.

--Mark

just out of curiosity, are you using the original retention brackets that came with your 945gm or did you replace them to be able to put on the zalman? if you replaced them, could you tell us where you got them? i guess this is one of the most interesting questions regarding the 945gm.

[mhv10]

The retention bracket that came with the 945GT is custom and will only work with their heatsink.

The replacement bracket that I got off eBay is a vanilla "Socket 478" bracket, and appears to be identical to the bracket that was on the 915GM motherboard as well as my older Intel i865 motherboard.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had first purchased a retention bracket at Fry's, but it was the kind that uses a backing plate on the otherside of the circuit board, and that conflicted with some of the surface mounted chips right under the CPU socket. So the one on eBay specifically just has little prongs that can squeeze through the 4 holes around the CPU socket and then mushroom out to stay secured. I think it was about $7 including shipping. You can look up item # 320007612599 on eBay to see an example, but most in eBay seem to use a backing plate.

Hope that helps,
Mark