Best processor for value/performance/coolability?

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autoboy
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Post by autoboy » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:14 pm

Yeah, i would stay away from 939 and i think most people here know that and that is why it has not come up much on this thread. you don't get the same value as you would with 754 and you don't get the upgradability of AM2.

S754 is still a good socket and is perfectly useable. Only now is my family outgrowing the Duron 750 that is so old i can't remember when we got it and i imagine a simple $15 graphics card update would take care of the poor web performance with the TNT2 based Vanta card that is in there now. (It is a low end TNT2 that i had never heard of before) I guess in the end it really depends on the kind of programs his mom wants to run. My mom only uses email, internet, and her digital camera which would run fine on a 500Mhz PII.

However, we are entering a new era of operating systems and moving towards 64bit systems. Who knows if the next vista will require more than 2Gb of memory 5 years from now and this is all the majority of 754 systems support.

In two months when AM2 is more established nobody will care about 754 if they even care now so do you really want a system that will be old 2 months from now. How much fun is that to build? I want new stuff to play with. Not a bunch of old crap.

jackylman
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Post by jackylman » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:11 pm

IsaacKuo wrote:
jackylman wrote:
IsaacKuo wrote:BTW, it looks like 754 is going to outlive 939.
In what way? Are any new CPU's coming out for them? I'm pretty sure that they're both officially "dead".
In the sense that AMD plans to continue shipping 754 processors a year after it stops shipping 939 processors.

From dailytech.com:
"According to AMD documentation, all socket 939 processors will stop shipping Q2 2007 with final orders occurring nearly half a year before end-date. AMD Roadmaps have socket 939 end of life (EOL) in Q4'06, while socket 754 is EOL Q4'07."
Ah, I see. Still, I don't think S754 or S939 are going to see any new CPU's, particularly 65nm varieties. So if you're building a system and trying to decide between the two, the point is moot. Find the processor you want, grab a mobo with the correct socket and you're stuck with it until you decide to upgrade the mobo along with the CPU (and perhaps other components) or until you decide you need more processing power and are willing to sacrifice some silence for it (assuming you haven't bought the fastest CPU to begin with).

I guess what I'm saying is: if you're starved for cash, S754 and a Sempron 2x00 might make sense. But if you're willing to spend a little more money, you'll hit the "sweet spot". And in this case, if you go with AM2, you'll leave yourself more flexibility as well.

The only problem with AM2 might be limited mobo choices. Most have "NFurnaces" in them, although the ASUS M2V with Via chipset looks interesting (4 PCI slots :)).

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:29 pm

The question of onboard video is key here. the 6150 is the most up to date on board video, supposedly it even has shader 3.0, not that this person would use it (unless maybe some new version of MYST comes out that everyone buys)

3500+ am2 on the asus 6150 or epox 6100 is where it is at for avoiding obsolence in 2 years. 65nm is comming for the socket, that means that a solid year will go by with am2 not being replaced, which means 2 years of it being current. And it's almost as cheap.

in the time someone reads and responds to all of these forums, they could have gotten a freakin part time minimum wage job and made extra the money for a real system.

QuietOC
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Re: Best processor for value/performance/coolability?

Post by QuietOC » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:05 pm

Reachable wrote:Now I am pondering a system for my mother which would use XP (or whatever OS is current at the time) and where it would be desireable for the hardware to be at least adequate for a few years.

So I'm looking for that magical equation of speed and value and low noise where all are perhaps compromised for the best possible outcome. I'm quite overwhelmed by, and don't know a heluvalot about, all the available processors. I'm pretty sure that the new dual-core/high performance per watt offerings from Intel and AMD are way out of price range.

What I'm really trying to find out, then, is what is the best value, performance, easy coolability processor out there.

Any opinions would be much appreciated, and if they include appropriate motherboards as well, doubly so.

This won't be a gaming rig, so that level of performance isn't needed.
TIA,

I am sorry, I missed the whole mother part. I didn't mention this earlier:

I would suggest a ASUS Pundit P2-AE2 barebone (VIA chipset) with a cheap S754 AMD processor.

From the Sudhian review using a Sempron 3400+:
Image

Very low power, very easy to setup. All you need to buy is the Pundit, memory, cpu, and hard drive.

If your mother needs a modem and/or parrallel port the Sis-based ASUS Terminator T2-AE1 works well--I just built one for my mother-in-law. Plus women find both of these small systems cool.

If there is anything equivalent with a AM2 socket it might be fine. I am sure someone must know something cheap with all the *new* technology *cough* marchitecture, ahem.
Last edited by QuietOC on Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:27 pm

most powerful and cool system is this:

VIA K8T800 Pro chipset and a 90nm athlon 64 (not sempron) processor. the 2.0 ghz 512 meg cache one that new egg sells.

so i agree there for the time being. via k8t800 pro has sata, cool running and very fast compared to other chipsets.

I have abit kv8 pro, really great motherboard. (not using it currently, have dual core now)

derekva
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Post by derekva » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:35 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:most powerful and cool system is this:

VIA K8T800 Pro chipset and a 90nm athlon 64 (not sempron) processor. the 2.0 ghz 512 meg cache one that new egg sells.

so i agree there for the time being. via k8t800 pro has sata, cool running and very fast compared to other chipsets.

I have abit kv8 pro, really great motherboard. (not using it currently, have dual core now)
Specifically, the SKU for the Athlon64 3000+ is ADA3000BXBOX and it is a 51W TDP processor. With 512k cache. And x86-64 support. Yum.

The SiS760 chipset is pretty good as well and runs damn cool, but may not perform as well as the VIA.

But price-wise and performance-wise, the ADA3000BXBOX is the CPU to go with if you want low heat. I love mine in my MCE2005 HTPC. :D

-Derek

QuietOC
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Post by QuietOC » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:52 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:VIA K8T800 Pro chipset and a 90nm athlon 64 (not sempron) processor. the 2.0 ghz 512 meg cache one that new egg sells.
There is basically no real performance difference between a similarly clocked Athlon 64 and Sempron. Get whatever is cheaper. The Athlon 64 will have better resale value, but I doubt that's a consideration.

I'd suggest an "D0" Sempron 3000+ ($78 )/3100+ ($80) with the Pundit P2-AE2. Maybe even a 3300+ ($82).

Then use RMClock or CrystalCPUID to undervolt those--very, very cool.

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Post by IsaacKuo » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:24 am

Right now Fry's Outpost has a deal for a socket 754 Sempron 3000+ for $50. I'm not sure whether that's the version QuietOC is recommending, but it says "Stepping: DO" in the specs.

QuietOC
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Post by QuietOC » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:20 am

IsaacKuo wrote:Right now Fry's Outpost has a deal for a socket 754 Sempron 3000+ for $50. I'm not sure whether that's the version QuietOC is recommending, but it says "Stepping: DO" in the specs.
Yep, the StarMicro ones are 64-bit enabled, but that's not really much of a plus. Also you do lose SSE3 with the older "D0" stepping chips (only the E revisions have SSE3). But SSE3 is not very important unless you want to run a hacked vesion of OS X. :P

Additional code glossary:

"Palermo" = any 90nm S754 Sempron
"BA" = "D0" stepping (no SSE3, mostly not 64-bit)
"BX" = "E6" stepping (SSE3, 64-bit)

The Fry's deal sound good. Good luck! :)

Also there's some other uncommon codes like "BO". Those are probably E3/E4 or some other early "E" stepping chip.

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Post by Reachable » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:09 pm

I'm delighted by the way this thread turned out. Somebody reading this could create an entire hierarchy of choices, all based on real knowledge.

There are lots of people for whom the kind of system indicated here would be ideal.

For the one naysayer in the bunch, let me remind him that thrift leads to plentitude, and detracts not a bit from your fun.

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Throwing My Hat Into the Ring

Post by fastturtle » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:55 pm

Here's the Score:

1st) Vista requires 512 meg but needs at least 1 Gig to run worth a damn

2nd) Due to Vista's requirements, this means at the least a 64 bit CPU because you want something that supports 2+ gigs of memory for keeping up with Window's demands

So In this regards best bang for buck I've found:

MSI K8MM-V S754 motherboard that holds 2 gigs and includes SiS S3 Unichrome Graphics plus an AGP Slot for upgrades, 10/100 NIC 4x USB 2.0 + 4x USB 2.0 headers

Next I'd go with the Sempron 2800+ Palermo w/64bit support and SSE3 along with 256k L2 Cache unlike the 2600 with has 128K of L2 Cache and they're both 1.6 ghz clock speed.

Go with a 2x 512 meg of Kingston Memory to start with and you're good to go for XP, while being able to upgrade to 2x 1 gig sticks if needed.

As to Video, if there's a need to upgrade that in the future, AGP 4x/8x slot available and cheap upgrade is possible.

I'm actually planning this MB/CPU combo to upgrade my XP1800 and I'm only getting the MB/CPU as I've got everything else.

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Re: Throwing My Hat Into the Ring

Post by QuietOC » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:31 pm

fastturtle wrote:Go with a 2x 512 meg of Kingston Memory to start with and you're good to go for XP, while being able to upgrade to 2x 1 gig sticks if needed.
You want 1x1GB for S754, and Kingston memory is flaky.

512MB is fine for almost anything in XP, but certainly 256MB is too little.

autoboy
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Post by autoboy » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:52 pm

I second the 1x1Gb if you go with S754 because it is a single channel chipset. S939 or AM2 requires 2X512 because of the dual channel memory controller. I'm starting to look at the AM2 boards and heatsinks for my HTPC and the selection sucks really bad right now. There are not many heatsinks for AM2 yet. If you need to build right now the stock cooler might get you by for now i guess. The asus pundit is a really nice system but it lacks any graphics upgrade and doesn't support DX9 so it is not vista aero compatible. That kinda sucks as i know my mom will like that feature.

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Post by QuietOC » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:36 pm

autoboy wrote:The asus pundit is a really nice system but it lacks any graphics upgrade and doesn't support DX9 so it is not vista aero compatible. That kinda sucks as i know my mom will like that feature.
For Vista I'd suggest a Geforce 6100/6150 IGP or ATI IGP chipset, expecially the RS600 when/if it is released.

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