what did I do wrong, or how can i do better with this system

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:41 pm

I first used the zalman speed control to make it quieter, the sound was acceptable.
But the darn thing heats up the room, so now i run the cpu fan at full speed, it isn't loud but i don't want to hear it at all, and it still is too hot
What can i do to make it cooler and quieter
1. start over with amd
2. new case (which one)
3. cpu cooler
4. none of the above
5. 2 & 3

here are some temps (using smartfan);
9:30 am first reading when turned on was
CPU 50, then 48, 49 C
Room 75 F
HD 31 C
MB 28 C
9:53 am after remote session
CPU 56 C
Room 75.2 F
HD35 C
MB 33 C
10:43 another remote session and read email
CPU 60 C
HD 41 C
MB 36 C
Room 76.3 F
11:54 DVD burning copying
CPU 75 C ranging 74-77 C(read) then opened case (write) 62-65
MB 38 C
HD 4 C
Room 77.5 F
== I SHUT IT DOWN ==
4:18pm
CPU 49 C
MB 28 C
HD 31 C
Room 76.6 F
Right now (internet only) 4:51pm
CPU 60-61 C
MB35 C
HD 37 C
Room 77 f

Enlight case
p iv 3.20E
1 stick 1gb
160 samsung sata
nec dvdrw
tdk cdrw
floppy
asus p4p800-E
zalman cnps7000b
seasonic psu
nexus exhaust fan
nexus intake fan
radeon 9600 passive cool

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:59 pm

start over with amd. The P4 3.2E has TDP of 89/103W, depending on Vcore, there is no way in hell you will make that quiet without a buttload of work, and it will still heat up your room.

Can I ask, had you visited this site before you bought your CPU?

Post by **Rusty075** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:40 pm

Undervolt, and underclock while at idle, if your system supports it. Start in the BIOS, and see if it has options to control the CPU voltage. Gradually work it downward one step at a time, while testing for stability in between.

There's lots of information here in the forums about software tools to play with you vcore and clock speed too.

merlyn · Post by **merlyn** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:53 pm

sounds to me like the HSF isn't installed properly

autoboy · Post by **autoboy** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:12 pm

Switch the Zalman cpu cooler for a Ninja. Running the fan faster will not prevent the cpu from heating up the room. No matter how fast the fan runs, the cpu will still put 100W into the room. Slower fan less airflow but hotter air. Faster fan, more airflow but lower temp. Either way you are still dumping 100W into the room.

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:01 am

jaganath wrote:start over with amd. The P4 3.2E has TDP of 89/103W, depending on Vcore, there is no way in hell you will make that quiet without a buttload of work, and it will still heat up your room.

Can I ask, had you visited this site before you bought your CPU?

Actually, yes. hence the nexus,seasonic, zalman.....As best as I could determine the prescott core seemed to be a good choice.

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:04 am

merlyn wrote:sounds to me like the HSF isn't installed properly

That was my first thought, but the installation was so simple, I can't see what I could have done wrong!

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:18 am

As best as I could determine the prescott core seemed to be a good choice.

It is a good choice if your house lacks central heating. It is not a good choice if you are looking for a cool and quiet CPU. For example, the computer I am writing this on has a Sempron 3400 and is currently idling at 28C; I would guesstimate that room temp is about 16-19C, this is with Cooln'Quiet enabled. You may consider that the Sempron does not offer enough performance, in which case there are Athlon 64's and dual-core Athlons which can be made to run almost as cool and with similar or better performance to the Prescott.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:37 am

90 W can be made reasonably quiet, but not with a Zalman 7000. That heatsink design has to be at least two years old now. Maybe with a Ninja or some other monster heatsink...

Of course it will still heat up the room a bit, but I doubt it's that major of an influence unless your room is closet-sized. The CPU has the same influence as a 100 watt light bulb... I've lived in small rooms but a 60 watt bulb in my desk light hardly made a difference in temperature. Perhaps the perceived difference is greater than it really is for cooling purposes.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:02 am

rhendrix9 wrote:
jaganath wrote:Can I ask, had you visited this site before you bought your CPU?
Actually, yes. hence the nexus,seasonic, zalman.....As best as I could determine the prescott core seemed to be a good choice.

Yikes! There must be something wrong with this site then.

The Prescott is one of the worst for power efficiency. It pretty much defined inefficiency when first released. Even the older 130nm Williamette P4 is more efficient.

Swapping out the Prescott for a different P4 would help. A 65nm "CedarMill" chip like the Pentium 4 631 would be cooler running. I am not sure which socket you have, but the CedarMills are LGA 775 only.

If you have socket 478 then a "Northwood" like the P4 3.0C would be more efficient.

I'd strongly advice getting a Scythe Ninja SCNJ-1000 to cool any of these processors. The Ninja is the high-heat/low-noise champ, and is one of the few coolers capable of cooling a Netburst CPU quietly.

Caenis hilaris · Post by **Caenis hilaris** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:23 am

I sympathize with your troubles. I have a Pentium D 950 and I've struggled with cooling it and the room that it inhabits.

I would hate to see you start over with AMD because that option seems the most expensive (new CPU, motherboard, and maybe new memory). Further, you may be like me where the Intel chip is superior (yes, superior - I said it. In tests in our research lab, we found AMD doesn't outperform Pentiums at everything) at certain applications important to you.

You're temperatures are similar, but much higher than mine. I don't run my AC much because I'm cheap, and I don't see CPU temps nearing the 70Cs until the ambient in my room nears 31C(87F). I use an Antec P180B. Perhaps, you could try a new case, but I have cheaper solution to the room heating problem.

A cheaper solution might be to vent the hot air, similar to venting a clothes dryer. I'm currently working on a scheme to vent the P180's exhaust out of a window using a dryer vent ($2.50US) and some styrofoam to insulate around the vent (scrap I found at my lab). My first experiments have been highly successful at cooling the room, and therefore, cooling my CPU. Give it a try, its much, much cheaper than a new CPU/motherboard/memory.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:27 am

Your temps seem high, but there's no need to get a new processor. I don't think the enlight case has 120mm fan openings so I would recommend a case that does like an antec 3000b. And get an xp-120 or ninja heat sink.

Without knowing too much about your case, my guess is that hot air is not being exhausted efficiently and since the seasonic flows hot air back into the case through the the front vents your system is essentially a closed loop. The heat from the cpu is only a percentage of the total system heat, so I seriously doubt that the cpu is the problem.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:30 am

The heat from the cpu is only a percentage of the total system heat, so I seriously doubt that the cpu is the problem.

With a P4 3.20E in that system CPU heat as a % of total system heat could exceed 50%. The cpu IS the problem.

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:12 am

QuietOC wrote:
rhendrix9 wrote:
jaganath wrote:Can I ask, had you visited this site before you bought your CPU?
Actually, yes. hence the nexus,seasonic, zalman.....As best as I could determine the prescott core seemed to be a good choice.
Yikes! There must be something wrong with this site then.

The Prescott is one of the worst for power efficiency. It pretty much defined inefficiency when first released. Even the older 130nm Williamette P4 is more efficient.

If you have socket 478 then a "Northwood" like the P4 3.0C would be more efficient.

I'd strongly advice getting a Scythe Ninja SCNJ-1000 to cool any of these processors. The Ninja is the high-heat/low-noise champ, and is one of the few coolers capable of cooling a Netburst CPU quietly.

Well, i did the research over a year ago, and I see that the cpu charts do not even mention the prescott, now?. i could have imagined it but i struggled thru the overwelming mass of information and somehow came to this conclusion.

I wonder if the ninja would work in my case? but then i think the enlight case is holding me back!
It's a 478 and I work with a lot of digital photo work and DVD movies, I need a cpu that is capble wouldnt the P4 3.0 be a step back?

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:26 am

What enlight model do you have? I looked quickly at their cases on newegg and they seem to use 80mm fans. What size are your case fans?

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:28 am

rhendrix9 wrote: It's a 478 and I work with a lot of digital photo work and DVD movies, I need a cpu that is capble wouldnt the P4 3.0 be a step back?

The Prescott's deeper pipelines make it slightly slower than a similar clocked Northwood. A slower processor can run on less voltage if you can undervolt, thus the lower clockspeed will be an advatage as far as cooling. Switching to the Northwood would be a step in the right direction as far as reducing heat, and you probably wouldn't notice any difference in performance.

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:19 am

QuietOC wrote:
rhendrix9 wrote: It's a 478 and I work with a lot of digital photo work and DVD movies, I need a cpu that is capble wouldnt the P4 3.0 be a step back?
The Prescott's deeper pipelines make it slightly slower than a similar clocked Northwood. A slower processor can run on less voltage if you can undervolt, thus the lower clockspeed will be an advatage as far as cooling. Switching to the Northwood would be a step in the right direction as far as reducing heat, and you probably wouldn't notice any difference in performance.

Northwoods are a bit hard to come by right now. In about one month, they should be easy to find though.

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:56 am

frankgehry wrote:What enlight model do you have? I looked quickly at their cases on newegg and they seem to use 80mm fans. What size are your case fans?

it's an older model, only improved versions now. but the fans in/out are 80mm and case is lined with akasa sound proofing which i'm thinking is a better insulater, keeping in heat.

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:01 pm

jackylman wrote:
QuietOC wrote:
rhendrix9 wrote: It's a 478 and I work with a lot of digital photo work and DVD movies, I need a cpu that is capble wouldnt the P4 3.0 be a step back?
The Prescott's deeper pipelines make it slightly slower than a similar clocked Northwood. A slower processor can run on less voltage if you can undervolt, thus the lower clockspeed will be an advatage as far as cooling. Switching to the Northwood would be a step in the right direction as far as reducing heat, and you probably wouldn't notice any difference in performance.
Northwoods are a bit hard to come by right now. In about one month, they should be easy to find though.

I found a p4 northwood 3.0 for $124 at starmicro (never used them be4)
http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=120

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:17 pm

You can always try running your computer without the case side and see if the temps improve. I don't think the hot air has anywhere to go and the seasonic, while quiet, is not noted as an air mover.

autoboy · Post by **autoboy** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:24 pm

Switching to the Northwood is not worth it IMO. A northwood might save 20W but is that worth $125? Try out the Ninja and see if that helps you. Switching to an AMD system or new core 2 is really the only way to lower the temp in the room. Have you tried undervolting the cpu yet? That and the Ninja might be enough for now.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:13 pm

autoboy wrote:Switching to the Northwood is not worth it IMO. A northwood might save 20W but is that worth $125? Try out the Ninja and see if that helps you. Switching to an AMD system or new core 2 is really the only way to lower the temp in the room. Have you tried undervolting the cpu yet? That and the Ninja might be enough for now.

Yes, I actually agree. There is really not much that can be done to make significant improvements to power/heat on his current platform.

As far as getting a Northwood: the OP should be able to sell the Press-hot and at least come out somewhat even.

If he is really concerned with heating up his room and willing to spend the money, switching to one of the AMD K8 platforms would pay off.

rhendrix9 · Post by **rhendrix9** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:12 pm

autoboy wrote:Switching to the Northwood is not worth it IMO. A northwood might save 20W but is that worth $125? Try out the Ninja and see if that helps you. Switching to an AMD system or new core 2 is really the only way to lower the temp in the room. Have you tried undervolting the cpu yet? That and the Ninja might be enough for now.

I have not modified any of the CPU settings. The mb seems to have a number of ways to overclock but I'm not sure how to underclock.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:30 pm

The mb seems to have a number of ways to overclock but I'm not sure how to underclock.

Your motherboard doesn't allow manual Vcore adjustments below 1.5V, and the core voltage for your CPU is 1.4V, so you cannot undervolt basically. I don't know if RMClock or CrystalCPUID work with socket 478 P4's. Also, it seems from the manual that you cannot change the FSB in BIOS, so the only way you could underclock would be to lower the multiplier. The manual is not clear if this is possible.

I've taken this information from the P4P800-E Deluxe manual on the Asus website, I assume the P4P800-E's BIOS is virtually identical.

P4P800-E Deluxe

autoboy · Post by **autoboy** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:15 pm

I would not underclock. I only underclock 1 computer and it is my fileserver where performance is not important. You lose performance and the benefit is not as good as undervolting. An underclock lowers the output linearly so if you drop your clock from 2Ghz to 1Ghz you will use 50% of the power as before. If you undervolt power decreases by the square of the underclock meaning if you lower your Vcore from 1.5 to .75 you will use 25% of the power. You can undervolt and still keep the same performance. My athlon X2 3800+ runs stable at 1.1V and the stock 2Ghz. This is only possible on either motherboards that support undervolting or by software on CPUs that support Cool and Quiet or Intel Speedstep. Yours does neither so you are out of luck. Put a Ninja on it and save up for that new dual core cpu and motherboard in a year.

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:12 am

Switching to the Northwood is not worth it IMO. A northwood might save 20W but is that worth $125?

It was worth $200 to me 18 months ago. I switched from a 3.0E Prescott to a 3.0C Northwoods (both 800 fsb) very soon after building my sig system. It was my first build, started prior to finding SPCR. Immediately, my idle and load temps dropped by 10C.

Since then, with SPCR help and some experimentation of my own, the system never exceeds 48C anywhere and remains nicely quiet..

Try out the Ninja and see if that helps you.

A note of caution about the Ninja. Many socket 478 MBs need some airflow to the Vreg components around the CPU socket, which the Ninja doesn't provide. A Thermalright XP/SI-120 might be a better all-around approach, despite giving up a few degC for the CPU. I went so far as to add a dedicated 92mm fan at 5V for my particularly warm Vreg bits. You can see it between the PSU and optical drive in this picture.

mpgalvin · Post by **mpgalvin** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:19 am

i see a number of people recommending northwoods (a decision i made about a year ago) but typically they're talking 3.0c's. after scanning the cpu power consumption page http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/IntelPowerConsumption.htm, i found that there's a ~12W jump (and V jump) when going from 2.8c to 3.0c. so i found myself a 2.8c and stuck with. i'm cooling it passive on a ninja (original vers) and it's working great.

at least, that's what worked for me. you can also try undervolting slightly. but in no way do i endorse using a Prescott for a "cool & quiet" application.

hravn · Post by **hravn** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:23 pm

mpgalvin wrote:there's a ~12W jump (and V jump) when going from 2.8c to 3.0c.

Hmm, I guess it was a bad idea to get a 3.0 Northwood instead of the 2.8 for my laptop (ok, luggable computer) a few years back.. still better than the Prescott default that dell recommended though

Merom, come on already, I'm a bit tired of the fan noise.

Gojira-X · Post by **Gojira-X** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:30 pm

t's an older model, only improved versions now. but the fans in/out are 80mm and case is lined with akasa sound proofing which i'm thinking is a better insulater, keeping in heat.

I would say that this is part of the problem. I quietened my sig rig without using akasa sound proofing, mainly cos of cost constrains but also due to the fact that the paxmate is foam and foam is an isulator.

before you fork out $125 on a new cpu, rip out the akasa paxmate, reseat the cpu cooler and analyse your airflow in the case.

If you do that, you could drop a couple of degrees in temp and save money.