Time to upgrade... need advice on a quiet powerhouse!

daba · Post by **daba** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:56 pm

Hello everyone,

So it's that time again... time to upgrade the old desktop machine. Currently I have:

Intel P4 3.0C with XP90 + 90mm Nexus
2x512MB Mushkin BH5
Asus P4C800-E DLX
2x160GB Samsung Spinpoint RAID 0
ATi x800pro with Zalman V700Cu
+ random other stuff

I'm using all Nexus fans with my Lian Li V1000B.

Anyways, this system is starting to get sluggish for me. I do a lot of data processing, and often my system resources are used >60% which sort of hinders me from doing other things while the computer is processing in the background. The main reason I've been reluctant to upgrade is because of the heat issues with the new CPU's and GPU's. Plus, I've been totally out of the loop with technology as of late.

So I've been eyeing the new Intel Conroe processors... are they worth it? I'm also thinking of getting a Dell 3007FPW which requires a video card with 2xDVI out. What GPU would be good for this (and can be cooled silently)?

Thanks everybody.

stromgald · Post by **stromgald** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:13 pm

Conroe's are good, but they will also be quite expensive. If I were you, I'd just get some more RAM and maybe a few Papst fans for better cooling. They're a little noisier, but they move much more air.

Inexpensive, cool yet high performing processors are mostly held by AMD right now, although Intel is starting to make inroads. But switching to AMD would require a complete overhaul rather than just an upgrade. I'm not too keen on graphics cards and which ones have 2xDVI, so I'll let someone else handle that.

Some important questions:
What's your budget? Do you play games on it? Is a complete overhaul possible or do you just want to upgrade a bit?

darthan · Post by **darthan** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:44 pm

The Dell 3007FPW does NOT require a graphics card with two DVI ports. It requires one with a dual-link DVI port. Yes, there is a difference and yes that is the difference between working and not working. I don't know which video cards have dual-link DVI but I believe most recent ATi and Nvidia cards have it. Nvidia cards are cooler than ATi cards right now.

Secondly, Conroe dual core would be an excellent upgrade if it is your processor that is being used greater than 60%. That 60+% on a P43.0C is probably about 60% of one core of the T6300 leaving you a lot of processor headroom. Secondly, contrary to what Stromgald says Conroes are not that expensive (at least not official list prices if you don't want a high-end one) and they are more powerful and have better performance/watt than Athlon 64s.

daba · Post by **daba** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:08 pm

stromgald: Although my memory usage peaks 750MB when the PC is number crunching, I haven't found a shortage for it just yet. Also, I don't have a cooling problem? The Nexus fans are running fine.

darthan: I had a hunch about the 3007FPW; I guess I could use an adapter with the VGA port from the X800pro. But I hear that it really stresses the GPU when using anything graphics intensive. I doubt my x800pro can handle it.

Aside from that, the dual cores sound really intriguing. What model do you suggest? I have some games I have my eye on, like UT2K7, but even then I wouldn't game too frequently. Budget... don't know yet... say >$1000? Nothing too crazy.

I usually settle for something if it gets the job done without interfering with other things, but I'm starting to feel this computer's lag. So, I'm looking for a complete makeover.

I'd like to leave the hard drives untouched, if possible. They're quiet enough for me!

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:19 pm

daba wrote:darthan: I had a hunch about the 3007FPW; I guess I could use an adapter with the VGA port from the X800pro.

Nope, unless your graphics card has a specifically-defined dual-link DVI port, no adapter will help you.

klankymen · Post by **klankymen** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:52 am

I believe all 7XXX series nVidia GPUs have DL-DVI, excepting the low end 7300LE and 7300GS, but don't quote me on this one.

I'm certain that 7900s have 2x Dual-Link DVIs, so you could attach 2 30" monitors.

I recommend looking around on newegg, some cards, such as this one have Dual-Link DVI listed in the features, and I also believe all cards that say max resolution 2560 x 1600 have at least one DL-DVI port. It would be logical that all cards based on the same chip have the same outputs capacity, but don't rely on assumtions like that without consulting somebody who actually knows what hes talking about

EDIT: I'm not sure what to think about the 7800 series, as these are actually older cards... but I suppose these aren't recommended nowadays anyway

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:14 am

This guy needs a Conroe. It's fast, runs cool, dual-core, independent clock-throttling, etc. It's exactly what he's looking for.

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:27 pm

To drive the Dell, get a passively-cooled 7600GS.

I don't think an X800 can drive it based on this page.
http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx800/specs.html

Get a Conroe with an Intel 965 board. I'm not sure which boards have good fan control etc. yet. Wait until Conroe becomes available in retail form.

cmthomson · Post by **cmthomson** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:06 pm

You'll be amazed at how snappy any dual core system is compared to your existing system. Definitely wait a couple of weeks, then pick either a Conroe or an AMD AM2. Personally, I'm eying Conroe on a Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 MB. I've recently installed an eVGA 7900GT KO (which has two dual-link 2560x1600 outputs) and am pleased with the result of cooling it with an Aerocool VM-101, a duct and an undervolted fan. The 3007WFP is likely to be my next toy...

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:31 pm

3800 am2 will be the cheapest running dual core setup that still wields loads of power.

conroe will just be faster and use a little bit more wattage. Better, yes, but not cheaper. AM2 motherboards are really cheap. Good ones are like 70 or less dollars brand new retail boxed.

daba · Post by **daba** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:29 pm

Wow, thanks for the information. Looks like dual core is in my future... as of now I'm still waiting for this old thing to churn out numbers ... But, how's the Conroe in terms of silent computing? That's the main reason I'm asking it here, on spcr.

I just wonder with these new video cards... will they be as easily cooled as my X800pro, but more importantly, can I cool it quietly but still enjoy performance on a large monitor?

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:49 pm

I dont understand? The lowest conroe stomps all most any AMD cpu now, and probably runs cooler too. And the lowest one is gonna go for like $150 I think? And im sure you will be able to find a motherboard for $100. So really the only argument for not getting a conroe is that its not as mature of a platform and may have bugs. But its just as cheap as any X2 will be and can be run just as silently.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:35 am

If youâ€™re happy to go with the entry level dual-core CPUs (under $200 ~ 2Ghz), then there isnâ€™t much in it between the two. AMD are a bit cheaper (especially motherboards, at least for now) and Intel slightly faster and better performance per watt. The AM2 socket also looks likely to be more future proof than LGA 775.
But, if you want to buy a mid range or faster CPU, then Intel seems the only option worth taking to me. An E6600 is just over $300, itâ€™s the cheapest 4MB cache version and it only needs a small over-clock to match the top AMD CPU - FX-62. Even if the FX-62 was reduced to $300 (it seems as if itâ€™s being reduced to $800), the E6600 is still a better option for silence, as it uses much less power.

DDR2 667 is the best value RAM for either platform. DDR2 800 isnâ€™t going to give you much extra, although if youâ€™re looking to use only 1GB, then the price difference may not be such a big deal.

daba wrote:I just wonder with these new video cards... will they be as easily cooled as my X800pro, but more importantly, can I cool it quietly but still enjoy performance on a large monitor?

There are plenty of Dual-Link passively cooled GPUs out there. If you go with the Dell 30 incher, then the issue is what resolution you will run games at. If youâ€™re running at a resolution anywhere near the screens native resolution, youâ€™re gonna need a hard core SLI setup to power that. Thatâ€™s going to be a lot harder to cool quietly. It should be a lot easier to cool two lower power GPUs than one higher power one and the performance can be equal; two lower power heat sources a distance apart versus one higher power heat source. You still have to get the heat out of the case though in both scenarios. It will take quite a bit of thought to get the right balance of parts to do this fairly quietly.

I suggest that your system needs all the help it can get in doing this quietly, so an Antec P180 case or similar would be a good place to start. Taking the power supply heat out of the main motherboard chamber is a big help when running SLI. The new revision P180 also has a mounting fan for a 120mm fan directly opposite where the top VGA card will be.

Currently, there isnâ€™t a lot of choice for running dual GPUs with Conroe. The Intel 975X chipset supports Crossfire only and until nVidia and ATI release their own chipsets for Conroe, thatâ€™s your only choice. AM2 should support both dual GPU architecture already.

jaQa · Post by **jaQa** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:53 am

Hi,

i've you're experiencing the sluggish feel only when you do heavy multitasking (whatever CPU intensive programm in the background and normal task's like surfing/office in foreground get sluggish) the cheapest option would be just to get a Pentium D .. you could keep all you current hardware and the DualCore Pentium D is more than fast enough for every task out there. Every DualCore will get rid of this sluggish fell ...
A Pentium D 930 OEM costs about 150USD ... all you need ...
I only build new systems when it's really neccessary and the performance I can get for cheap is 2-3 times more than i currently have. Just my 2 cent's ...

Christian

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:46 am

A Pentium D 930 OEM costs about 150USD

After the July 23 price cuts the cheapest Pentium D's (805/820) will probably cost less than $100.

daba · Post by **daba** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:56 am

jaQa: thank you for your recommendation but if I switch to LGA775 then a lot of my options will need to change. I might as well get a new computer overhaul.

jaQa · Post by **jaQa** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:58 am

Hi,

ups... you're on socket 478 ... haven't checked you board and assumed you're already on 775 ..

so you're right - there is no reasonable upgrade path for this motherboard ..
Core 2 Duo is also socket 478 but probably not compatible with your board - i've read something about voltage regulation that make most older boards incompatible with Core 2 Duo.

I would also get an Intel system then, with a cheaper board and a E6600, the 4MB cache would probably boost your number crunching app alot and it's unlikely that you'll need a faster system for the next 2-3 years if you're not that much into gaming ..

I mean i'm running a Athlon 3200+ ... and since i don't run heavy processing tasks in the background it's more than fast enough at anything i throw at it.

As I see it the whole IT industry will have a huge problem to convince people to buy new machines in the future, gaming is the most demanding
task for a PC and almost the only driving force to build even faster systems .. for the average non gamer a current system will almost last forever .. i mean for what do you need 4MB L2 Cache - over 10GB Fronsidebus width etc. surfing/doing email/programming/watch movies ..

.. you just don't ... and you'll never will .. systems are already far too fast for the average business application.

And as it's seams Windows Vista isn't too demanding also .. so if my usage habit's don't change i'll not need a new system for at least the next 5 years ... and can invest in nice holidays instead which make a far more better investment.

Christian

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:22 am

Core 2 Duo is also socket 478

Core 2 Duo will use an LGA 775 socket:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... processors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_T

as it's seems Windows Vista isn't too demanding also

I heard that Vista was very demanding, especially in "Aero" mode.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:55 am

jaganath wrote:
Core 2 Duo is also socket 478
Core 2 Duo will use an LGA 775 socket:

Intelâ€™s decision to use the name Core 2 Duo for both desktop and mobile CPUs has led to some confusion. When you add in the fact that Core Duo was a mobile CPU which also had a dedicated desktop chipset and the mobile chips are available as both 478 & 479 pin versions, then confusion reigns supreme.
I think Iâ€™ll stick with the names Conroe and Merom.

jaQa · Post by **jaQa** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:34 am

Hello,

I heard that Vista was very demanding, especially in "Aero" mode.

If i remember correctly they specified about 1Ghz for the minimum processor speed ... and for Aero they specified a DirectX 9 compatible GPU with 128MB RAM .. so nothing too demanding ..

To the socket issue .. ups .. yes they just got me confused with this.

Christian